Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[GBBQ]

People keep pointing out lack of experience.

I actually think experience is overrated, either you're good or you're average or you're bad. Look at Zidane, he had no managerial experience. He went from coaching the youth team to winning Champions League 3 times at his first spell as a manager.

Zidane and Pep are two recent examples of ex players making successful managers having coached predominantly in the youth ranks but I mean I doubt Barcelona or Madrid would have stuck with them after the run that Ole had. We can blame the board and the players to a certain degree but Ole should have been able to get 6 points from the last two games.

The fact is Ole does have experience and none of it suggests that he is a tactical genius that can get us out of this mess. I was all for giving Ole the contract at the time but the drop off and ever increasing gap to City and Liverpool is worrying. We have had 6 bad years post SAF and Ole's margin for error is practically zero now.

 

[soaphroniscuss]

As a purveyor of Caf Body Language™ myself, I admit to having doubts about its legitimacy. I don't think we can justifiably say that Ole 'isn't a leader' just because he has a 'quiet' personality.

Agreed, but what makes you think that is the reason?

 

[SteveJ]

Agreed, but what makes you think that is the reason?

The reason for what, sorry?

 

[kentafuji]

Could people just stop using these.

Pep won 6 league titles in Spain and Germany. 2 CL and multiple other cups. Also inherited a proper structure (La Masia) to develop his ideas, transitioned and learned his style from none other than Cruyff and always used his blueprint approach anywhere - Spain, Germany, England.

Ole has won the Noggie league 10 years ago. Then relegated Cardiff and never won the Norwegian league in his second stint. But yes, let's compare him to Pep and Klopp.

I dont understand what you're post has to do with the highlighted part of my post

Its a fact that Pep after his first season at City got rid of all the players he saw as deadwood, and replaced them with players he wanted. It has nothing to do with past achievements at other clubs. Pep decided he didnt want certain players, and they were gone.

If we are going to back Ole as manager, we need to do the same. Let him get rid of the players he doesnt want/sees as deadwood, and give him the funds to rebuild the team.

I'm not comparing him to Pep. I'm simply stating, City allowed their manager to cull the squad and rebuild it. They backed him to do that. We need to give our manager the same chance. Let him make it his squad.

 

[Kostov]

How would him achieving this show he can compete against City and Liverpool? Our football is abysmal. Our ability to beat the likes of Huddersfield or Cardiff shouldn't rely on any of the above. Truth is anyone of us could get rid of the deadwood and promote youth, doesn't mean we should be in the hot seat.

We won't be competing with Liverpool nor City in the near future, most United fans should get to peace with it. Our management under Glazers has been abysmal and I have no hope of being competitive with the moron in charge. We still don't have a DOF, and even when he appoints one, Woodward would probably pick the wrong man, just like he does with the managers.

Yeah truth is anyone could get rid of the deadwoow, yet Solskjaer is the 4th manager in charge in the last 6 years, and first thing he does is he extends the contracts of shit like Young and Jones, and picks Lingard to be his favorite. It seems even that is too much to ask.

 

[Woodzy]

I think we need to back him. Let him get rid of the players he doesnt want, and replace them So if we have 8 out, we need atleast 8 in.

Let him make this squad his own, with players he wants. Cos right now, its a bad mix of players from SAFs era, Moyes' Era, Van Gaal's area and Mourinho's. So, let him build this squad for his own.

City did this with Pep after his first season. He saw what wasn't good enough, and got rid. Players like Nasri, Clichy, who were key players in their first title win, deemed not good enough for Pep and were gone. So, give Ole that chance.

Then, if its still not working, we have to make a change, for better or worse, but right now they have to back him fully 100%

I think don’t think Ole is the right man to make the call in who stays and who goes though.

Smalling, Jones and Young are all past their sell by date but clearly in Ole’s plans. It’s a huge concern and shows he is blind towards where the real issues in quality are.

 

[Enigma_87]

Don't bother with them. Your analysis is great. We need more of these posts here.

Good post. Very thorough. Please ignore the Luddites. It's too easy to label something shit and not actually spend the time understanding analysing what the correct solution to the problem will be, instead just looking for the silver bullet.

We lack some fundamentals tactically. Can't always pin it on the players. They receive instructions from the manager. If he isn't the one to take the blame for the way we play who is?

People expect all those problems will go away with players that can run faster, longer and have higher work rate. But if we look more in detail we don't actually play coherent football.

Yes Pep and Klopp teams have issues themselves in defence, but it's the way they play and how efficient they are in attack that compensates for those deficiencies. We have no idea or set up whatsoever when defending and we are so far off them in attack it's not even funny.

 

[Livvie]

Sack.

I was so so wrong on both him and Poch. No shame. I'll admit it now than waiting for more evidence.

Throw whatever money we have at Poch and let him rebuild the squad in summer.

Yeah, Poch will happily come to a club which will sack a manager two months after giving him the job, and who are in the Europa league instead of the CL. Bet he can't wait.

 

[Enigma_87]

I dont understand what you're post has to do with the highlighted part of my post

Its a fact that Pep after his first season at City got rid of all the players he saw as deadwood, and replaced them with players he wanted. It has nothing to do with past achievements at other clubs. Pep decided he didnt want certain players, and they were gone.

If we are going to back Ole as manager, we need to do the same. Let him get rid of the players he doesnt want/sees as deadwood, and give him the funds to rebuild the team.

I'm not comparing him to Pep. I'm simply stating, City allowed their manager to cull the squad and rebuild it. They backed him to do that. We need to give our manager the same chance. Let him make it his squad.

You can't draw parallel with City mate. They appointed a proven manager and backed him financially.

We appointed a caretaker manager, then on the back of 10 games, gave him 3 year contract, and on the basis on a relegation form till the end of the season you want to back him with hundreds of millions? That awful business sense, let alone footballing one.

City decision to back Pep has nothing to do with ours to back Ole. You can't compare the two situations hence my quote.

 

[roonster09]

So what is terrible from the analysis lads?

We don't give awful amount of space between the lines? We don't often have someone playing on side 1 or even 2 forwards? We have spot on marking instructions? We always keep our backline in shape? We aren't terrible in transition or we track and pass opposition forwards pretty well?

Or you just decided that a long piece on our organizational structure, that someone took his time to actually watch in details how we defend and put it together isn't worthy of your time and label it crap?

Or just because other teams make defensive errors we should overlook ours, sit down, hold hands and sing Kumbaya with hope everything will be fine tomorrow?

Under Jose last two years we conceded 28 and 29 in the league. This season he was rejected a CB, along with Ole's efforts we conceded 54 in the league - only West ham in the top ten conceded more. But let that not blind you.

So you are not saying anything new. We conceded 29 goals in 17 games under Jose. Last season De Gea was just brilliant, this season he is ordinary.

If you check goals conceded for any team, the team will be out of shape or there will be gaps. That's how it is.

Under Ole we conceded 25 goals in 21 games which isn't good enough, under Jose we conceded 29 goals in 17 league games which is also not good enough. Our defense is poor and now we don't have 'Superman' De Gea to bail us out. End of the day you are saying our defense is poor which is sort of agreed by everyone.

 

[Van Aanholt's Express]

You need to give him time - it took him 5 years to make Cardiff look like a good team.

 

[el3mel]

Yeah, Poch will happily come to a club which will sack a manager two months after giving him the job, and who are in the Europa league instead of the CL. Bet he can't wait.

We need to try. Throw whatever money at him and see. At least we would have tried. I also don't get the problem regarding sacking managers after few months all honestly. Madrid just did the same with Solari btw. Appointed as caretaker, made permanent then got sacked all in same season! If everything point to you being wrong in your initial choice there's no reason going any farther and waiting for the inevitable.

Most of us supported and praised Old to heaven during the honeymoon period but everything point to it being just another false down. We had plenty previously

With then current state I'm afraid the next season will be a total waste as this one. We need a new manager, a dof and more than 6 main players at least.

 

[roonster09]

Goals conceded in the last 7 seasons:

43 under SAF
43
37
35
29
28
29 in 17 under Jose and 25 in 21 under Ole

Granted our defenders aren't exactly the best but this season the defending has been calamitous. When you concede goals from so many individual errors, you have to start questioning the set up and management. I'd wager we've conceded the fewest goals of the top teams since SAF retired up until this season.

If you concede goals from individual errors, you don't question the set up. You have to question the players and their concentration levels.

 

[Enigma_87]

So you are not saying anything new. We conceded 29 goals in 17 games under Jose. Last season De Gea was just brilliant, this season he is ordinary.

If you check goals conceded for any team, the team will be out of shape or there will be gaps. That's how it is.

Under Ole we conceded 25 goals in 21 games which isn't good enough, under Jose we conceded 29 goals in 17 league games which is also not good enough. Our defense is poor and now we don't have 'Superman' De Gea to bail us out. End of the day you are saying our defense is poor which is sort of agreed by everyone.

It's not only the defence, but also the midfield. It's the way we set up, the way we react to the opposition.

Jose got laughed at for questioning the defence last Summer and prioritizing CB, yet you can see that he was right at the end.

If you look at how we concede goals(or shots or chances) it's not down to personal mistakes all the time. It's our defensive shape and don't tell me it was the same under Jose.

 

[Greck]

Wonder how many of you backed this banner at the time?

You could use this banner to defend the tea lady if she was made manager.

 

[roonster09]

It's not only the defence, but also the midfield. It's the way we set up, the way we react to the opposition.

Jose got laughed at for questioning the defence last Summer and prioritizing CB, yet you can see that he was right at the end.

If you look at how we concede goals(or shots or chances) it's not down to personal mistakes all the time. It's our defensive shape and don't tell me it was the same under Jose.

Jose was laughed at for wasting so much money and after signing so many players we still have so many gaps.

Not sure we watched the same games anymore. We were falling on our arse and made some comical mistakes all season.

 

[dove]

If you concede goals from individual errors, you don't question the set up. You have to question the players and their concentration levels.

Individual errors? Most of the goals we concede are the result of our complete inability to defend as a team, not because of individual errors. Players have no clue where are they supposed to be and do, similar to our attacking shape. We are all over the place and I think we are worse now then when Ole took over.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

If you concede goals from individual errors, you don't question the set up. You have to question the players and their concentration levels.

I'd ask why we're always in a position where players are making errors. Look at the seasons gone by, the same defenders weren't making these errors and now they're doing so in abundance.

The whole idea of a coach/manager is to iron out these issues.

 

[RedorDead21]

What did he mean for some players its the clubs fault they ain't playing well?

 

[roonster09]

When you concede goals from so many individual errors, you have to start questioning the set up and management. I'd wager we've conceded the fewest goals of the top teams since SAF retired up until this season.

If you concede goals from individual errors, you don't question the set up. You have to question the players and their concentration levels.

Individual errors? Most of the goals we concede are the result of our complete inability to defend as a team, not because of individual errors. Players have no clue where are they supposed to be and do, similar to our attacking shape. We are all over the place and I think we are worse now then when Ole took over.

You can discuss that with Di Maria's angel, whether goals were individual errors or poor organisation.

 

[Volumiza]

Definately not mate, but I’d expect any manager to be showing signs of implementing their system after six weeks. We haven’t had that at all with Ole and he’s been here six months.

Maybe, I can't help but feel we just have a few bad apples that think they are above any instruction. I'm going to reserve judgement until I've seen what we do in the market and how many of our under-performers are shipped out. The team is a mess, no doubt about that one.

 

[roonster09]

I'd ask why we're always in a position where players are making errors. Look at the seasons gone by, the same defenders weren't making these errors and now they're doing so in abundance.

The whole idea of a coach/manager is to iron out these issues.

Same defenders made plenty of mistakes, we had De Gea is amazing form. Look at that xG goals that De Gea saved last season and compare that to this.

 

[MacabbiUnited]

It's not only the defence, but also the midfield. It's the way we set up, the way we react to the opposition.

Jose got laughed at for questioning the defence last Summer and prioritizing CB, yet you can see that he was right at the end.

If you look at how we concede goals(or shots or chances) it's not down to personal mistakes all the time. It's our defensive shape and don't tell me it was the same under Jose.

Jose was right, only he had already bought 2 CB's and seemed to have no clue on how to merge them in the premier league, so he wanted 30 year olds for the quick fiz of his own mistakes.

Defense was terrible under Jose as well, and Jose was also a disrespectful c*nt who diminished the club at every level.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

You can discuss that with Di Maria's angel, whether goals were individual errors or poor organisation.

Poor organisation which then leads to individual errors.

 

[roonster09]

Poor organisation which then leads to individual errors.

Nice twisting though.

 

[RedorDead21]

I'd ask why we're always in a position where players are making errors. Look at the seasons gone by, the same defenders weren't making these errors and now they're doing so in abundance.

The whole idea of a coach/manager is to iron out these issues.

These players have been like this largely for their entire time at united...inconsistent...the players we bought (pogs aside) were not top tier players, again potential but prob inconsistent as well. I think the issue of consistency is achieved by several factors. The individual themselves, influence from fellow players who demand it (say leaders in the team), and a structure at the club which does it's best to eradicate e.g. quality squad to rotate and finally a manager who seems to not accept it. Playing Martial and many others many times for instance and going back to them, sometimes randomly in big games, never really strikes me as someone stamping out anything. We give mixed signals to everyone, all the time.

 

[Konimey]

Break the bank to sign Poch and break it again to back him up this summer with all the signings he wants if we don't want to be banter fc. But United's board are made up of stingy sleaze balls, hence they won't even back Ole this summer. Watch this space.

 

[Enigma_87]

Jose was laughed at for wasting so much money and after signing so many players we still have so many gaps.

Not sure we watched the same games anymore. We were falling on our arse and made some comical mistakes all season.

Don't get me wrong we make ton of individual mistakes, but our overall shape is shambles and Ole has to part the blame there.

Jose was right, only he had already bought 2 CB's and seemed to have no clue on how to merge them in the premier league, so he wanted 30 year olds for the quick fiz of his own mistakes.

Defense was terrible under Jose as well, and Jose was also a disrespectful c*nt who diminished the club at every level.

Not saying he wasn't rightfully sacked due to poor results and he shouldn't share the blame on the CB's he signed (although Lindelof is probably our best defender now). But off the ball we were better come on. What I'm watching recently under Ole is Moyes level.

 

[sunama]

Why?

Why give Ole a chance?
Because he has already shown that he can get us winning in a 3 month block.
And you never know, he may surprise you.

If he screws up (and I am more than 50% sure he will, in 2019), he will be fired very quickly.
Managers like LVG and Jose have a big name, which means they were given more time to allow them to regain control. But Ole isn't a big name, so won't be given that sort of time. I think that if we get repeat of our current relegation form, next season, Ole will be fired without much fanfare.

 

[Siddharth]

We would look completely amateurish if we sacked Solskjaer now, and any self respecting manager wouldn't touch us if we did. We made the decision to appoint Solskjaer, now we have to back him and hope his vision for the club is enough to get us out of this mess.

Any real manager probably thinks we are utter plonkers to have given him the job in the first place.
Sacking him would just be correcting our mistake. And would show we are a serious amd ruthless club. Right now we seem to be stuck in a time warp. We are basically a laughing stock of world football. Ole 'the clown' leading the pack. God I hate talking about him this way. But it's the truth.

 

[sunama]

Wouldn’t have been my first choice but at least give him the Summer where he can get rid of some of the clowns we have disgracing the club.

I just feel that a lot of the clowns will still remain.
Valencia is the only deadwood confirmed to be leaving. I think that the rest will stay.
Herrera is a huge loss and it will be interesting to see if we replace him.

 

[roonster09]

Don't get me wrong we make ton of individual mistakes, but our overall shape is shambles and Ole has to part the blame there.

Of course Ole takes part of the blame as he is the manager. All I'm saying is if we go by pics of all the goals conceded, every team will be out of shape and there will be gaps for attacker (btw I didn't see the pics as it was showing some error message for me).

Last time we were good defensively from tactical point of view was under Van Gaal. Also I'm not saying we don't have problems (we have lot, just check the how many are good enough for ManUtd thread), I'm saying at least give him preseason and transfer window to try and fix the problems.

 

[sunama]

What I'm watching recently under Ole is Moyes level.

Now this, I do agree with.

On a side note, with Ole smiling after every poor result - something doesn't seem right.
Does the guy not understand that his job is on the line and if it continues into next season, he'll be fired?

Jose seemed to have washed his hands of us, after Woodward did not back him in the Summer. So when he got canned, he looked relieved, but I can't believe that Ole is already waiting to be sacked.

 

[JonDahl]

So what is terrible from the analysis lads?

We don't give awful amount of space between the lines? We don't often have someone playing on side 1 or even 2 forwards? We have spot on marking instructions? We always keep our backline in shape? We aren't terrible in transition or we track and pass opposition forwards pretty well?

For the last time, everything you have said, while true for us, can be found in any amount of stills for any team in the entire world, especially when you're looking for it. In short, stills mean nothing; they're pointless. It's exactly the same as using stats without context - a waste of time. Someone with an agenda can "prove" how good we are at defending using stills and frame all the conceded goals as bad luck - equally as stupid. As usual, the answer lies somewhere in the middle, not in some FM/FIFA fantasy world that it's "all about the lines!!!" crap.

Do you really think some person off the internet knows more about and can spot tactical errors than people who have been in the game for 20+ years? What's he doing taking screenshots on his pc? He should be earning thousands at a football club. Of course, real life isn't your computer games.

Hang on, I'll go take a screenshot of Young making a few tackles an interceptions and "prove" why he's the best defender at the club - no context necessary, just something that fits an agenda.

Or you just decided that a long piece on our organizational structure, that someone took his time to actually watch in details how we defend and put it together isn't worthy of your time and label it crap?

Or just because other teams make defensive errors we should overlook ours, sit down, hold hands and sing Kumbaya with hope everything will be fine tomorrow?

Under Jose last two years we conceded 28 and 29 in the league. This season he was rejected a CB, along with Ole's efforts we conceded 54 in the league - only West ham in the top ten conceded more. But let that not blind you.

Blind me from what? The team has been shit for 6 fecking years, not because Ole is in charge.

We conceded 29 goals under Mourinho this season - nearly 2 a game. A manager being described as one of the best tactically and defensively in the modern era. Are you telling me on his 3rd year he couldn't get his team to defend in the shape he wanted and that it all went to pot because we didn't sign Maguire for £70 million?

Have a word mate, the players a crap.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Someone like Van Gaal or Jose Mourinho maybe. I think that is the way to go. Two of the most proven managers there is.

Yes, van Gaal and Mourinho, both past their prime, both difficult managers to deal with, are the only examples of managers who are more experienced than Solskjaer.

Good point.

It's not as if any current PL manager from 16th in the league up, is both more experienced than the current Utd boss, and also more qualified.

 

[roonster09]

For the last time, everything you have said, while true for us, can be found in any amount of stills for any team in the entire world, especially when you're looking for it. In short, stills mean nothing; they're pointless. It's exactly the same as using stats without context - a waste of time. Someone with an agenda can "prove" how good we are at defending using stills and frame all the conceded goals as bad luck - equally as stupid. As usual, the answer lies somewhere in the middle, not in some FM/FIFA fantasy world that it's "all about the lines!!!" crap.

Exactly. You can use images to prove anything, just go with the chance conceded and you will see gaps in the defense.

 

[DenResched]

Jose was right, only he had already bought 2 CB's and seemed to have no clue on how to merge them in the premier league, so he wanted 30 year olds for the quick fiz of his own mistakes.

Defense was terrible under Jose as well, and Jose was also a disrespectful c*nt who diminished the club at every level.

It's always need some time to acclimatized and adapt to Premier League, Vidic, Evra took their time based on the trust from SAF. I still wonder what will happened to Januzaj if he got proper protection from the management.

What still amaze me, United for 6 years is a victim of instant football expectation. We tend to believe whatever media said about us. Media even most of the fans called for SAF retirement when it seems we left behind under Jose's Chelsea or few years after, the noisy neighbour. Time to time United shows that class and continuity came from develop the team, not by create one.

We surely need reality check, not only the staff, management, directors, players, but US, the FANS!

SAF knows well that we need to support the club and the manager, which we failed for 6 years..

 

[Livvie]

We need to try. Throw whatever money at him and see. At least we would have tried.

Maybe we have already tried.

 

[Nigel's Tackle]

The moment that confirmed that Ole was the wrong appointment was during the Everton game when the camera panned to him on the touchline. His eyes said it all. He had no clue why you were being spanked and even less of an idea of what to do about it.

He's horribly out of his depth and I cannot believe any sane United fan would want him (and Woodward) to be in charge of the massive rebuilding project that you have.
He seems like a nice guy but being brutally honest he's not a United manager.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

What exactly had he done in his career to make us sign him as a player? A little belief would help.

You gotta remember he is not steering this ship alone. He has the experience of Phelan etc with him and I am pretty sure he will have SAF to lean on.

Seriously?