Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Chesterlestreet]

@Enigma_87 During the bad run under Ole we've looked as disjointed and, well, un-drilled as we did under Mourinho. We've also lacked intensity to a great extent, something we also lacked under Mourinho except in flashes. Initially, when Ole was still caretaker, we did look more cohesive (against fairly poor opposition, granted, but still) - and we definitely played with (much) more intensity.

Isn't it conceivable that the team have reverted to a "default" mode, one that does not reflect how Ole wants us to play? I mean, this is pretty much what he has implied himself. I don't wildly disagree with most of your conclusions above, but if what you're analyzing is the "default" mode, you're ultimately looking at Mourinho's (or nobody's, a fecking mishmash) team, not Ole's.

Even if I'm right, it's obviously possible to criticize his decision to revert to a default that's plain shit, or his possible inability to stop a less voluntary slide back to said default, but that's nevertheless different than having tried to implement a dreadful system which is his by choice/preference.

It's become fashionable to mock the idea of giving managers a modicum of time to put their stamp on a team. I don't quite see what's so wrong with it myself. Do we, as you said above, keep backing him blindly until it all goes to hell (again)? No. If what I call the "default" mode is still there next season (it should be gone by the first pre-season match, actually), you won't catch me defending him.

 

[JinnerJamie]

The thing that worries me the most about Ole is the things he is currently saying. Claiming we will be nowhere near City and Liverpool next year as the gaps too big, Klopp just made up a 20 plus point gap.

Going to be a big summer for Ole and I am not optimistic, hope I am proved wrong.

To be fair to Klopp it’s taken 3 full seasons to build his team. What his side achieved was a result of that build. We are that far back and we will need a good 2-3 years before we can.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

I love Ole, he's a legend and he's done relatively well under the circumstances. But given this experience, that would make him really good as DOF. Get a manager with a better understanding of tactics, like Poch or Tuchel and have Ole support him as DOF. Ole has had a good view of the squad and understands the required profile of a United player so I think he'll be good at that. He's just not the level of manager we need to compete again at the very top.

Why give a bumbling failed manager a role that they've never done before?

Why do we have to employ Solskjaer all of a sudden?

Here's an idea, why not just recruit, and employ, the best that's available?

Why not use the copious millions we have to employ people that are actually really good at the role we're giving them?

 

[tenpoless]

I dont think its proper to question Ole's tactical capabilities when our players cant even perform basic stuffs.

If They can play football and show it on the pitch consistently against lesser oppositions that'd be a good starting point.

It should not take a managerial genius to beat fecking Everton and Cardiff.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Maybe even Moyes, 11 years with Everton, season with West Ham, managed in La Liga. Great experienced manager with pedigree!

Youre taking the piss but Moyes is a better manager than Ole.

 

[ash_86]

What kind of tactics or phase of play could be implemented when we were playing pretty much 3 games a week? On top of it when you consider the amount of people that went away with injury, and poor form of old guard like Ddg, it's impossible to make progress with these many variables. The man deserves atlest 1 summer window to bring in some of his players and try to implement his style. You cannot hide at man united. If he isn't good enough, it will show up anyway.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

I know that Ole is a club legend but that's as a player - as a manager he doesn't have the track record for a big job like this - the Board should swallow their pride, admit their mistake and terminate his contract now (the pay off probably won't be massive) and then start speaking to Pochettino straightaway. But, I don't think they will, they don't act until things get really bad

 

[DamoK]

I like ole but I can't defend his recent starting line ups, I mean he has clear favouritism for Jones, Young, smalling, lingard and rashford. All these players have been woeful for months, same could be said for me gea and pogba. My worry is that Jones, smalling, young and lingard will all be here next year starting games. Rashford has talent I just think he needed to be dropped same can be said for Pogba and De gea. The other 4 should be the first ones out the door.

 

[cyril C]

Spurs had and arguably as bad as form as we had in the league in the past 2 month, but people are all over poch for a crazy fluke comeback.

People cant see beyond the current moment. Maybe Ole will not succeedd, maybe he will, as we learnt success is not guarnteed noatter who we bring in. Let the man work, he has an ezperienced staff around him, he has the right attitude and for a brief moment on time he also made us fall inlove with United again.

There are 2 things Im certain about.
One is Liverpool finiahing out of the top 4 next season, the second is that everybody will be eating their hats come next christmas

So was Chelsea and Arsenal. Difference is that they obtained enough points during 1st 5-6 months while Utd had to chase them. Beside they all have something to fight for when season close while our team has none. Any manager, even for a bottom club like Huddlesfield, would have been sacked, if performance was as good as ours in the past 2 months.

 

[Smores]

I know that Ole is a club legend but that's as a player - as a manager he doesn't have the track record for a big job like this - the Board should swallow their pride, admit their mistake and terminate his contract now (the pay off probably won't be massive) and then start speaking to Pochettino straightaway. But, I don't think they will, they don't act until things get really bad

In that way he's lucky it's the end lf the season because we wouldn't turn this form around. Not that it would change people's opinions, if we'd have had another 5 games and he lost them all they'd still be backing him regardless.

Huddersfield and Cardiff were a good experiment in that regard because some have reevaluated their opinions as you'd expect but some are simply dogmatic.

 

[Nigel's Tackle]

What kind of tactics or phase of play could be implemented when we were playing pretty much 3 games a week? On top of it when you consider the amount of people that went away with injury, and poor form of old guard like Ddg, it's impossible to make progress with these many variables. The man deserves atlest 1 summer window to bring in some of his players and try to implement his style. You cannot hide at man united. If he isn't good enough, it will show up anyway.

It's already shown up. If it wasn't for large slices of luck in the West Ham and Watford games (and lets be honest against PSG) his record would be down there with Jan Siewert at Huddersfield.

 

[TRUERED89]

Youre taking the piss but Moyes is a better manager than Ole.

He got to start the season from the beginning, not midway through like Ole. With a team of champions including Vidic, Rio, Rooney, RVP, Evra, Carrick, Rafael, De Gea, Kagawa, Nani. But still finished 7th and didn't even make it until May. Ole's got a bunch of LVG & Jose misfits, team had no respect or confidence in Gollum, Sorry Moysie. I'd rather take my chances with OGS and at least try back him for 1 full season before we slaughter him. I could be wrong only time will tell but I'd like to see him given a chance first.

 

[peridigm]

We would look completely amateurish if we sacked Solskjaer now, and any self respecting manager wouldn't touch us if we did. We made the decision to appoint Solskjaer, now we have to back him and hope his vision for the club is enough to get us out of this mess.

Does not affect Madrid but then again, they still win things most years. Besides, sacking Ole now is not required to make us look amateurish. Everytime Woodward makes a decision takes care of that. As far as Ole goes, I think he has the vision to get us out of this mess. The problem lies in whether the owners care enough to sack Woodward from football duties and let someone with experience take charge. I'm not optimistic about that happening so we'll most likely continue down the current path for a few more years at least. It's depressing to be a United fan at the moment.

 

[Lexxxzi]

Man, just sack him then! Stop complaining. All of you are just a bunch of cookie-cutters, truely. Solskjaer isn't a bad manager, it's shocking that you don't even see beyond your own noses. It's hilarious.

Solskjaer will come back to Molde, restart his managerial career from there and take on a good club in some years. Man Utd is absolutely not the answer for any manager with self-respect and dignity.

Rant over.

 

[Enigma_87]

@Enigma_87 During the bad run under Ole we've looked as disjointed and, well, un-drilled as we did under Mourinho. We've also lacked intensity to a great extent, something we also lacked under Mourinho except in flashes. Initially, when Ole was still caretaker, we did look more cohesive (against fairly poor opposition, granted, but still) - and we definitely played with (much) more intensity.

Isn't it conceivable that the team have reverted to a "default" mode, one that does not reflect how Ole wants us to play? I mean, this is pretty much what he has implied himself. I don't wildly disagree with most of your conclusions above, but if what you're analyzing is the "default" mode, you're ultimately looking at Mourinho's (or nobody's, a fecking mishmash) team, not Ole's.

Even if I'm right, it's obviously possible to criticize his decision to revert to a default that's plain shit, or his possible inability to stop a less voluntary slide back to said default, but that's nevertheless different than having tried to implement a dreadful system which is his by choice/preference.

It's become fashionable to mock the idea of giving managers a modicum of time to put their stamp on a team. I don't quite see what's so wrong with it myself. Do we, as you said above, keep backing him blindly until it all goes to hell (again)? No. If what I call the "default" mode is still there next season (it should be gone by the first pre-season match, actually), you won't catch me defending him.

My issue is first and foremost is the disjointed set up we have from top to bottom.

We're making mistake after mistake, but won't admit it until thing go poo poo first.

You have to question his appointment first as a caretaker, then the decision to prematurely appoint him full time. Have to be honest here, I wasn't for this appointment at the first place. To me he lacked experience and personally wanted more known manager to finish off the season, give us time to set up a proper structure, have DoF, who will choose the direction and him appoint the new manager.

If we break Ole's supposed style - which btw I'm still not sure what is it - and we believe the caftards that he's trying to employ high press and proactive set up at high pace, then we need to realize how far we're from having the personnel to employ such a system.

Look at it this way - the board made the call after, supposedly exploring him, to hire Ole despite having a set up that would require more conservative manager finish our season. Literally no idea whatsoever. We don't have the forwards to employ high press - Lukaku is panting for breath at the 20th minute. Martial couldn't be bothered. Mata is old and not the ideal type. Alexis is terribly off form since we brought him, Rashford maybe is the only one, considering Lingard is also shite.

Then we don't have the midfield to initiate quick transitions, nor we have the players with solid tactical head to get into right positions, intercept play and also close the gaps. The defence is shambles, that's given.

So what do we do - employ a manager who has little versatility - shown on more than one occasion - and who doesn't really have a plan B, neither being able to work with the players he has, so we need to revamp the whole team in a way it suits him, but that's the plan if we had the next permanent manager in place, not Ole, who based on his credentials was brought in as a temporary solution.

What happens is we put several good performances, which you have to wonder, whether it is due to Solskjaer doing some magic or the players, burden free, played without pressure and gained some confidence back.

If we had the opposite scenario - Ole starting bad and finishing the season on high note I'd believe he has changed something and maybe he needs a chance to continue his work and bring his own players. But in reality he has proven so far that he can't bounce back after a defeat. Something crucial for every manager.

The confidence is down, we can't even beat relegated sides and his every action on the bench is questionable.

This is why I asked which is Ole's style and not the 'default' mish mash of Jose's team playing with or without confidence. So far I'm not sure there is one. As you mentioned the only thing that changed after Jose was sacked was that we played with a bit more intensity(we did as you say in flashes under Jose as well), and to me we got a bit of our confidence back since a series of good results.

But even during the good run I can't pin it on something special that Ole did tactically:
- We beat Spurs away - but let's be honest they battered us and De Gea probably saved at least 3-4 goals.
- we always took the lead and the only time we were catching up was when we drew with Burnley and Soton at home.
- as soon as we needed to show character in defeat or when teams were more accustomed to the "new instructions" Solskjaer implemented we didn't have answer in any of the games and honestly those vs Watford and West Ham flattered us.

 

[downunder red]

There's no guarantee that Poch or anyone of that ilk would do any better than Solskjaer with this bunch. We have tried high profile managers and failed previously. Give Ole at least one pre-season/transfer window. You would have to be crazy to be expecting a top 4 finish next season regardless of who is in charge.

Totally agree.
We just had one of the worlds all time great managers. He stuffed it. Give him a go.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

It's always need some time to acclimatized and adapt to Premier League, Vidic, Evra took their time based on the trust from SAF. I still wonder what will happened to Januzaj if he got proper protection from the management.

What still amaze me, United for 6 years is a victim of instant football expectation. We tend to believe whatever media said about us. Media even most of the fans called for SAF retirement when it seems we left behind under Jose's Chelsea or few years after, the noisy neighbour. Time to time United shows that class and continuity came from develop the team, not by create one.

We surely need reality check, not only the staff, management, directors, players, but US, the FANS!

SAF knows well that we need to support the club and the manager, which we failed for 6 years..

Quite the opposite; we've probably been the most patient fanbase among the top European leagues these past 6 years.

 

[DenResched]

SAF last speech..

"I also like to remind you that when we had bad times at the club, all the staff stood by me, all the players stood by me. Your job now is to stand by your new manager.

I wish the players every success in the future You know how good you are, you know the jersey you're wearing and you know what it means to everyone here. Don't ever let yourselves down. The expectation is always there"

From the romance side of MUFC, we failed him by lack of support by owners and the fans. We know this will happen but instead we allways try quick-fix.

We're looking for savior like SAF did to revive this club after Sir Matt era. But we forgot there's just one goal in FA cup that saved SAF, that bought him enough time to build MUFC that we know.

I'm not talking about how we should stand by Ole. Just a reminder, we failed to properly support LVG that only join us to tutor Giggsy, even Wazza said he's the best tactician he's worked with. Yes from the start we never 100% trust Jose, but once again we failed to support this club in transition properly.

We blame Jose negativity but cannot stand Ole's smile just because his so called credentials. Klopp need 3 years and we expect Ole to do that in less than a season? Arsene was at Japanese League before appointed by Arsenal and only denied greatness by more determined players under SAF.

If this is what we want, go on, call for the sack in the media. Push Ed to pull the trigger once more. Market (fans) opinion will give him reason to do that. And maybe Ed will try to manage this club on his own, since any good manager will wary to try.

Please calm down, we don't need this negativity. Show some class, dignity and be United.

 

[Moriarty]

Does not affect Madrid but then again, they still win things most years. Besides, sacking Ole now is not required to make us look amateurish. Everytime Woodward makes a decision takes care of that. As far as Ole goes, I think he has the vision to get us out of this mess. The problem lies in whether the owners care enough to sack Woodward from football duties and let someone with experience take charge. I'm not optimistic about that happening so we'll most likely continue down the current path for a few more years at least. It's depressing to be a United fan at the moment.

I feel sorry for Ole. Fergie kept the club in his head and delegated to whom he thought fit. It took him decades to perfect that art, much as it did for other great managers. Ole can't just rock up and expect to emulate that, and I don't think that was ever a consideration for him. But Fergie had Gill who didn't meddle. Ole has Woodward who does.

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

If we sack Ole, we have to replace him. We have to have someone managing the team on July 1st. At the moment I can’t see anyone appropriate for the position, they are perhaps like Ole not good enough and will get sacked and/or are not a good fit and will get sacked as well. When we know who is a good fit and we can get for the job, then we can make our move, be it Poch or someone else, but it has to be the man we want.

Antonio Conte is a much better fit than Solksjaer...,He won the Premierleague title in 2017....I”m sure there are others,like Carlo Ancelotti who can be attainable.....Have someone like Conte for the next couple of years....Lets rebuild the club and the team before then going for someone like Pochettino....

 

[Moriarty]

Arsene was at Japanese League before appointed by Arsenal and only denied greatness by more determined players under SAF.

Wenger inherited George Graham's defence and a harder bunch of pros you couldn't find. They were the rock on which Wenger built his first title-winning side, but Graham doesn't get a lot of credit for it.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Just wanted to put this out there -

Since beginning of March until the end of the season, these are the results of just-sacked-by-Brighton boss, Chris Hughton in comparison with those of Ole Solskjaer...

Hughton

W - 3

D - 3

L - 7

OGS

W - 4

D - 2

L - 8

Oh, and in that time, Brighton played City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs.

FFS, wake up, this guy needs to go, ASAP.

We need to stop putting dogmatic pride before what's best for the club.

The club need to correct this decision, and they need to do it now.

 

[DenResched]

Wenger inherited George Graham's defence and a harder bunch of pros you couldn't find. They were the rock on which Wenger built his first title-winning side, but Graham doesn't get a lot of credit for it.

true, while now Ole get a lot of unsolved problems from last 6 years, and some asked him to be sacked without let him try to solve the problems. Irony

 

[matt10000]

We need to terminate his contract now. I Was all up for this but his playstyle is Bus parking. I dont want another Bus parking Manager again

A manager sets his team up for each match with the best chance they have of winning that match. If you can not out play the opposition then you have to try and win by being organised, not conceding and hitting on the break. SAF did this many times if he felt setting up that way would give the players the best chance of winning the match. Fortunately, under SAF, most of the time we were better than the opposition and so attacked them. In top of the table clashes and in Europe he often parked the bus and even admitted that attacking Barcelona in the Champions League Final was an error. In his final couple of years, the squad was not at the same level as previous years, we did not play such attacking football but still won because SAF didn't mind parking the bus to win matches.

So, don't you think the reason why we are not blowing teams away and have played so cautiously under recent managers, is because the squad is not good enough? In all the successful teams, your first line of attack are your defending players and your first line of defence are your attacking players and so if the attacking players can't attack because they are busy defending then people call it parking the bus, whereas it is because the team are not good enough to get the ball off the opposition and do any attacking and so end up having to defend all the time. The only variation within this is that some managers are willing to take more risks during the attacking phase and some are more cautious in terms of keeping the shape etc...the bigger the gap/further behind in terms of quality that your players are behind the opposition players then the less risks you can take.

Therefore, at this moment the priority must be good recruitment over tactics etc...that is where we are.

 

[RedNed77]

Keep him and back him, mainly because I’m not convinced we can get anybody better in, but only let him spend what he recovers from player sales. If it goes well next year, free up some actual funds from the coffers for him.

 

[EireRed_GS]

I like Ole and think he was the right choice.. But i fear he's gonna get the sack next season, and there nothing he can do about it.. This bunch of players are the biggest bunch of over paid weak minded spoilt jokers we've ever had, and to be successful Ole would need to completely gut that squad. But we all know thats not gonna happen, and i can only see alot of the toxic elements of the last few weeks seeping into next season, & we know how this bunch does when the going gets tough.. he'll end up sacked cus they have no balls. I hope he gets rid of this gutless mentality thats destroyed the club

 

[Che Guevara]

What I find baffling is, SAF was forced to accept a 12-month rolling contract right up until his retirement and he was one of the best managers in the world. Then along come a string of duds and they all get long-term contracts, and golden handshakes to get rid of them. Where is the logic or sense in that?

 

[Tony247]

Fitness is extremely important and it comes by hard work and good preseason.

But as someone alluded earlier, relying simply on preseason and expecting things will be better is delusional. We need 3-4 good signings as early as possible and not till last day of transfer.

 

[RedorDead21]

I like Ole and think he was the right choice.. But i fear he's gonna get the sack next season, and there nothing he can do about it.. This bunch of players are the biggest bunch of over paid weak minded spoilt jokers we've ever had, and to be successful Ole would need to completely gut that squad. But we all know thats not gonna happen, and i can only see alot of the toxic elements of the last few weeks seeping into next season, & we know how this bunch does when the going gets tough.. he'll end up sacked cus they have no balls. I hope he gets rid of this gutless mentality thats destroyed the club

It should not matter if he is sacked...providing we have a recruitment process well driven and well executed above. The problem being is we don't. So the players he brings in will just add to the pool of players we already have, each brought in with attributes favoured by our then manager. As a club we should not be blaming people no longer here for our squad. That needs to be taken out of the managers sole control. And I don't mean Ed obviously!

 

[morbidsaint]

Yes, van Gaal and Mourinho, both past their prime, both difficult managers to deal with, are the only examples of managers who are more experienced than Solskjaer.

Good point.

It's not as if any current PL manager from 16th in the league up, is both more experienced than the current Utd boss, and also more qualified.

Like Moyes, maybe. Few has more experience managing in the Premier League. Did very well at Everton.

 

[Garethw]

Just wanted to put this out there -

Since beginning of March until the end of the season, these are the results of just-sacked-by-Brighton boss, Chris Hughton in comparison with those of Ole Solskjaer...

Hughton

W - 3

D - 3

L - 7

OGS

W - 4

D - 2

L - 8

Oh, and in that time, Brighton played City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs.

FFS, wake up, this guy needs to go, ASAP.

We need to stop putting dogmatic pride before what's best for the club.

The club need to correct this decision, and they need to do it now.

But he’s a legend mate. We can’t judge him until he’s spent £300 million. The entire squad is shit.

Expect lots of replies like this mate.

Woody needs to show some bollocks and sack him today. fecking club is a complete shambles.

 

[Cypherage]

Even if United sack Ole,that would mean since SAF has retired United have sacked Moyes,LVG,Jose & then Ole,what manager in their right mind would want to join a club in such a state as that, a club that has Phil Jones & Chris Smalling as a CB partnership & Young as a RB and the mighty Rashford leading the line.

There is no manager out there that could get a tune out of this lot,none what's so ever,the whole lot need to be put on the scrapheap,and start again,better yet,maybe they should just appoint Ed Woodward as the next manager,maybe then he will finally get the sack.

 

[NinjaZombie]

And what if he is not sacked but come next season, he still chooses to persist with the same crap players in major matches? Whose fault will it be then?

Then I'll judge him on that.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

If OGS had not played for us then I guarantee there would not be a single fan calling for him to be the man to oversee such an important and massive rebuild job. Not a single one. That is a fecked up situation, because really, what benefit does the fact he played for us with distinction 20 years ago have in terms of his management of the club?

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Nice twisting though.

 

[davidmichael]

It’s been 6 seasons since Sir Alex retired and squad players from back then have become first choice (some not even in their natural or original position) and it’s now a clusterfeck squad consisting of squad players from 4 different managers, Ole may be out of his depth but the squad he has was completely inherited.

Ole knows the profile of player we need in and the positions that need upgrading/strengthening so regardless of the fact he has no experience in the role I think he’d do well as Sporting Director and then have a quality head coach brought in like Pocchettino, Tuchel or Allegri to run the on pitch side of things.

 

[Revaulx]

Don't waste your time, it's hopeless. Apparently it's all down to fitness.

Nah. It’s because our defenders are crap. Despite us coming second the previous season with the same defenders.

Once we’ve “upgraded” them and everyone wishes hard enough it’ll all be ok.

 

[Massive Spanner]

SAF last speech..

"I also like to remind you that when we had bad times at the club, all the staff stood by me, all the players stood by me. Your job now is to stand by your new manager.

I wish the players every success in the future You know how good you are, you know the jersey you're wearing and you know what it means to everyone here. Don't ever let yourselves down. The expectation is always there"

From the romance side of MUFC, we failed him by lack of support by owners and the fans. We know this will happen but instead we allways try quick-fix.

We're looking for savior like SAF did to revive this club after Sir Matt era. But we forgot there's just one goal in FA cup that saved SAF, that bought him enough time to build MUFC that we know.

I'm not talking about how we should stand by Ole. Just a reminder, we failed to properly support LVG that only join us to tutor Giggsy, even Wazza said he's the best tactician he's worked with. Yes from the start we never 100% trust Jose, but once again we failed to support this club in transition properly.

We blame Jose negativity but cannot stand Ole's smile just because his so called credentials. Klopp need 3 years and we expect Ole to do that in less than a season? Arsene was at Japanese League before appointed by Arsenal and only denied greatness by more determined players under SAF.

If this is what we want, go on, call for the sack in the media. Push Ed to pull the trigger once more. Market (fans) opinion will give him reason to do that. And maybe Ed will try to manage this club on his own, since any good manager will wary to try.

Please calm down, we don't need this negativity. Show some class, dignity and be United.

Not this shit again.

You realize that speech was directly about David Moyes, right? A manager he told the club to appoint who was not qualified to manage Man Utd and was hired based on sentimentality more than anything (Scottish manager, at one club for a long time), in way, way over his head.

Sounds familiar, actually.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Didn't he supposedly cancel today's debriefing meeting with the players? Is that a problem? If they now all swan off on holiday, how will they get any fitness programes he wants then to do? How will people know if they are in his plan for next season?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

How will people know if they are in his plan for next season?

Maybe he's decided to sell 'em all.

Anyway, the fitness plans have presumably been given out already. It was mentioned last week, iirc.