Pogba apologises to fans after Cardiff

[Jazz]

This thread is unbelievable. It makes Martial FC look reasonable.

Pogba is an issue, it's as simple as that. The fact he's generating so much charged discussion at the moment proves it. We accept that he's only one of many, many issues - and that he isn't the most compelling that we're facing right now. But ffs. He's a fecking issue and a blatant one at that.

Ask yourselves why fans of this club, many of whom recognise him as our best player technically, would even contemplate losing him go for the perceived sake of the club. Also ask yourselves why it might be that players like Young, Herrera etc. who, despite being inferior players, simply look like they give a shit on the pitch and therefore aren't treated as harshly as a result? Pogba is supposedly a leader in the dressing room and based on how we've played, and with how I perceive his leadership from a fan's perspective, I can fecking well believe it.

He could get rid of all of this debate simply by looking interested on the pitch. Bottom line for me. It's the absolute bare minimum.

That's a very emphatic statement. Why are you so sure? Where's your 'evidence'? Do you know someone behind the scenes?

What do you mean looking interested on the pitch? He probably provided the most points for us. If he doesn't score or assist people after his ass. Yes he has his faults, but to single him out over all the other dross in the team is unfair.

Personally, I believe the press has played a big part in influencing fans. Pogba has his faults, but the media has had it in for him since day 1, and fans have allowed themselves to be led.

I don't blame him for wanting to leave. Why the feck should he put up with being abused and constantly blamed for everything that's wrong with our club? Most people in his position, with choices, would be out of there.

 

[roonster09]

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Perfect.

 

[Esquire]

The blind love some have for him is unbelievable. He came back because we paid him and his fat agent an unbelievable amount to come back and promised we would market him as the the first headliner. He wouldn’t even be the no.2 in Madrid had he gone at the time.

He is no doubt the most talented player we have and we should build around him. But the star always is the scapegoat and rightly so because he is the fulcrum of the team. But who can honestly say he has been consistently performing? It’s always one excuse or another if/when he doesn’t perform. There are just too many big gaps between flashes of brilliance.

People are totally ignoring the fact that he WANTS to leave. It’s not the club that’s pushing him out. I absolutely agree we should do everything reasonably in our power to convince him to stay but if he wants to go then we should get a fair price for him and reinvest. This is a multi year rebuild and sometimes we just have to admit defeat that Pogback hasn’t worked out and try to maximze the return on the asset.

 

[Kopral Jono]

This. Just imagine this place if Pogba rejected an improved contract and fecked off to PSG. Herrera was mistreated by united though

Spot on and the Herrera love-in is a bit weird if you ask me. On Pogba, I personally have been a fierce critic of him from the get-go, but you do have to admit that without him we'd most likely be languishing around where Watford finished this season on the league table.

 

[In Rainbows]

The blind love some have for him is unbelievable. He came back because we paid him and his fat agent an unbelievable amount to come back and promised we would market him as the the first headliner. He wouldn’t even be the no.2 in Madrid had he gone at the time.

He is no doubt the most talented player we have and we should build around him. But the star always is the scapegoat and rightly so because he is the fulcrum of the team. But who can honestly say he has been consistently performing? It’s always one excuse or another if/when he doesn’t perform. There are just too many big gaps between flashes of brilliance.

Real Madrid are full of marketable players with a standing the average fan recognizes easily. They had Ronaldo, Marcelo, Modric, Bale, and Ramos.

No it is not right that the star is the scapegoat. I do understand that the star should have a higher standard compared to the squad players, but some conflate that with who should leave. It's a separate argument. For example, I do have a higher standard for Pogba and will judge his performances to that standard, but when the discussion shifts to who I want to stay, my higher standard is no longer relevant because I want our squad as a whole to have a much higher standard and the only way that happens is if the bottom floor gets raised up to the standard I have for Pogba.

That's why I don't agree with making him the scapegoat. My scapegoats tend to be the players for which I have a lower standard for because it's a fact that they're the weakest part of the squad. Relative to our entire squad, the worst you could paint Pogba as is he was our 3rd best player behind Shaw and Lindelof even though I disagree. I don't judge him like I do de Gea because de Gea is in the position that is least affected by our crap squad. As a goalkeeper, his performances are only dependent on himself. The variables are whether or not he gets more chances to show his quality, that being whether your defense is great or not.

As an attacker, Pogba is more dependent on whether or not his teammates finish his chances. And before that, he needs his teammates to move so that a passing option is presented to him. When you're in a system like that of Klopp's or Pep's, it is much easier to affect a match because you're able to win the ball and have the opposition's defense in disarray, and you're loaded with competent movement.

If Pogba had more players on his level, would Pogba's inconsistencies matter as much? No, because if there were more match winners any bad performance gets ignored just like their performances are ignored should Pogba have a worldy. That's the nature of the sport. Just look at the perception of Ronaldo's CL campaigns in comparison to Messi. Ronaldo had a terrible semi finals and final, but his CL campaign was labeled a success by the majority of fans and Messi's was not. Why? Because his teammates won the game for him making his anonymous performances not matter. Messi did not have such luck. Messi was as bad as Ronaldo, but his teammates did not bail him out and he was outed as a choker that season.

I'm not saying he's some consistent player and that you're wrong. My argument is that it's difficult to be consistent when there are variables that should prevent any player from being consistent. I'm judging Pogba relative to his teammates, not relative to the league. It's clear that he's surrounded by lower quality players that make it harder for him to be consistent. That's a fact that everyone here agrees with. So when it comes time to judge him, I'm not going to call him a Virus.

You're right about him probably wanting him out too. But that's what happens when he can see his future with United could limit his trophies. Any player of his stature with any ambition would want out. It's the players who are crap and that recognize that they won't be wanted at the biggest clubs that are satisfied with our current level.

I don't care whether a player wants to be here or not. I want what's best for the club and what's best for the club is to surround Pogba with players on his level so that United can get back to the top. He doesn't hold all the leverage. Would a season where he downs tools really get him to play at Madrid? Would it still get him as good of a contract? No it would not. Now if he had 1 year left on his contract, it would be easier to down tools because after the season he saves his new club a lot of money as he would sign on a free. Therefore, I don't believe United need to sell him and I don't think he's one of our main problems. Our main problems are players like Young, Jones, Matic, and Lingard.

 

[GM K]

The blind love some have for him is unbelievable. He came back because we paid him and his fat agent an unbelievable amount to come back and promised we would market him as the the first headliner. He wouldn’t even be the no.2 in Madrid had he gone at the time.

He is no doubt the most talented player we have and we should build around him. But the star always is the scapegoat and rightly so because he is the fulcrum of the team. But who can honestly say he has been consistently performing? It’s always one excuse or another if/when he doesn’t perform. There are just too many big gaps between flashes of brilliance.

People are totally ignoring the fact that he WANTS to leave. It’s not the club that’s pushing him out. I absolutely agree we should do everything reasonably in our power to convince him to stay but if he wants to go then we should get a fair price for him and reinvest. This is a multi year rebuild and sometimes we just have to admit defeat that Pogback hasn’t worked out and try to maximze the return on the asset.

This is what baffles me really. The club pushed out Mourinho to keep Pogba here. The club has always wanted to keep Pogba happy here. From all indications, whether for justified reasons or not, it is Pogba that wants to leave. For me, once a player is determined to leave the club, bye-bye.

 

[GM K]

Spot on and the Herrera love-in is a bit weird if you ask me. On Pogba, I personally have been a fierce critic of him from the get-go, but you do have to admit that without him we'd most likely be languishing around where Watford finished this season on the league table.

Pogba is also a major reason (if not THE major reason) we had to struggle to climb back up the table in the first place. He classically downed tools under Jose. No player can be excused this season, especially those who obviously stopped playing earlier in the season.

 

[Loublaze]

Pogba is also a major reason (if not THE major reason) we had to struggle to climb back up the table in the first place. He classically downed tools under Jose. No player can be excused this season, especially those who obviously stopped playing earlier in the season.

Why a major reason when the entire team was trash? Who was MOTM in that Newcastle 3-2 comeback? The game Mourinho was supposedly going to be fired after no matter the result?

 

[kouroux]

Pogba is also a major reason (if not THE major reason) we had to struggle to climb back up the table in the first place. He classically downed tools under Jose. No player can be excused this season, especially those who obviously stopped playing earlier in the season.

Even under Jose he had some good games (and terrible ones too of course). A lot of expectations and therefore blame is placed on him

 

[Loublaze]

Also, who called for United to 'attack, attack' and play without fear at home? If Herrera said that though he'd be praised to the heavens

 

[roonster09]

Pogba is also a major reason (if not THE major reason) we had to struggle to climb back up the table in the first place. He classically downed tools under Jose. No player can be excused this season, especially those who obviously stopped playing earlier in the season.

No he didn't. This "downed tools" thing is getting tiresome now.

 

[GM K]

Why a major reason when the entire team was trash? Who was MOTM in that Newcastle 3-2 comeback? The game Mourinho was supposedly going to be fired after no matter the result?

Let us not revise history here. We were all around then. Pogba downed tools. Same thing he seemed to do once he had his heart set on Madrid.

 

[GM K]

Even under Jose he had some good games (and terrible ones too of course). A lot of expectations and therefore blame is placed on him

Yes, he had great games under Mourinho but he was never consistent. The expectations people have of him is not surprising. He is a very gifted player who also projects a super star brand in the media.

 

[Loublaze]

Let us not revise history here. We were all around then. Pogba downed tools. Same thing he seemed to do once he had his heart set on Madrid.

Revise history how? Thats a weak answer. He was MOTM in that game that 'saved' Mourinho was he not? He called for united to 'attack' at home and show no fear did he not?

 

[GM K]

No he didn't. This "downed tools" thing is getting tiresome now.

Whether 'downed tools', 'started complaining', 'dropped form', all the same to me. Except we are in denial, Pogba famously took the fight to his manager.

 

[roonster09]

Whether 'downed tools', 'started complaining', 'dropped form', all the same to me. Except we are in denial, Pogba famously took the fight to his manager.

We have 22 squad players and if the team is in this position because 1 player was not in top form for 2-3 months, then it says everything about the team, managers and how shit we are.

Pogba is just 1 player and he was dropped in few games too. There are 10 more players on the pitch and 22 players in the squad to pick someone other than him. It's just people looking for a scapegoat and easy target.

 

[GM K]

Revise history how? Thats a weak answer. He was MOTM in that game that 'saved' Mourinho was he not? He called for united to 'attack' at home and show no fear did he not?

He was man of the match in a handful of matches. That was and is never the problem. The problem is that he was VERY inconsistent, defied his manager's instructions many times and went public in criticizing him. The example you gave is a classic one. What nonsense to go out and be talking attack, attack, attack? It was clear he was aiming digs at his manager.

Look, I shouldn't even be arguing this frankly. Pogba is a gifted player. I want him here if the club can build a team of leaders around him. But to deny he clearly went to war with Mourinho? Nah. That was obvious.

 

[yamo123x]

He is a scapegoat in a team massively short of quality. Would you enjoy playing in that team? Can you blame him if he really did want to move?

He is easily our best player but has no quality around him, and now fans turn on him. The fan in the stands is one voice..

Having listened to evras interview, I now think he will leave which is not good for the club in many ways. We should be investing in quality players to play around him.

 

[GM K]

We have 22 squad players and if the team is in this position because 1 player was not in top form for 2-3 months, then it says everything about the team, managers and how shit we are.

Pogba is just 1 player and he was dropped in few games too. There are 10 more players on the pitch and 22 players in the squad to pick someone other than him. It's just people looking for a scapegoat and easy target.

You are right that he shouldn't be the only one made a scapegoat and that it shows we are poor if he is so influential. I agree with you. But for me, Pogba was a key reason we did not make top four. I am fully convinced of it. As our star player he was too inconsistent and had too much drama around him. Way too much. And we had made the costly mistake of trying to build around him as a leader. He is never a leader you rely on to pull the team up. He is just a very gifted luxury player.

 

[roonster09]

You are right that he shouldn't be the only one made a scapegoat and that it shows we are poor if he is so influential. I agree with you. But for me, Pogba was a key reason we did not make top four. I am fully convinced of it. As our star player he was too inconsistent and had too much drama around him. Way too much. And we had made the costly mistake of trying to build around him as a leader. He is never a leader you rely on to pull the team up. He is just a very gifted luxury player.

So you are blaming all the manager's mistake on the player. If they failed to build a strong team it's not on Pogba. The fact that we are crying that our midfielder is not a match winner shows how shit we are.

Pogba not being a leader doesn't mean it's his mistake. It's on management and manager to not sign a proper leader then. He contributed a lot this season and he had his ups and downs. It's the other players who failed to step up.

 

[Loublaze]

He was man of the match in a handful of matches. That was and is never the problem. The problem is that he was VERY inconsistent, defied his manager's instructions many times and went public in criticizing him. The example you gave is a classic one. What nonsense to go out and be talking attack, attack, attack? It was clear he was aiming digs at his manager.

Look, I shouldn't even be arguing this frankly. Pogba is a gifted player. I want him here if the club can build a team of leaders around him. But to deny he clearly went to war with Mourinho? Nah. That was obvious.

Pogba was echoing what united supporters were calling for with his remarks, am I lying? Fans on here were furious with Mourinho's approach against Wolves at OT in the 1-1 draw and Pogba was widely viewed as the only player who gave a shit in that game on here. Pogba maybe shouldn't have said it publicly but it was true. You call it nonsense but in the end its the approach that prolonged Mourinho's career. That second half was some of the best football United played in years

 

[crossy1686]

This. Just imagine this place if Pogba rejected an improved contract and fecked off to PSG. Herrera was mistreated by united though

He forgot to mention the 300k reasons a week Pogba chose United over anyone else.

 

[Kidders]

There is a saying in football, 'never go back', that's where Pogba has gone wrong, I know some will give examples of successful 'homecomings' but I'm referring to Pogba, when he left for Juve, many fans thought he was the villain of the piece and have never forgiven him for not staying and fighting for a place, my understanding is that it was more to do with SAF falling out with his agent? But regardless, when he left he became the villain despite him being a boy.
So roll on the years, and the accolades and cups, and Pogba comes 'home', seriously, how many welcomed him through gritted teeth? But if like me, you were prepared to forgive and forget providing he delivers on the pitch, he was always going to be under pressure to keep the wolfs at bay, inconsistant form, a defensive manager, shit team mates, intrusive media etc etc
Whatever the reason, and it is probably more than just these, the TEAM has failed, and failed badly, so what happens, we look for scapegoats, it can't be Olé, he's a legend, it can't be Lingard or Rashford because they are our own, it can't be Matic, Mata, Herrera, Smalling, Jones and Young because they always give their best, they're just not good enough, we can't blame Shaw and Martial because that bully Jose called them out and they are a bit delicate, so it's the biggest personality who gets the blame, the one the club stick on billboards, the one who sells the most shirts, the one on the front of match day programmes, the one the press want to talk to, the one the young fans adore, the one who has the furthest to fall.
This is football at its vengeful best, but Paul Pogba has only himself to blame, he did'nt have to come back, but he, or more likely his agent were sold the dream......well it's turned into a nightmare.
No need to apologies Paul, either pack your bags for Madrid, or roll your sleeves up and show us you really want to play for United.

 

[kouroux]

Yes, he had great games under Mourinho but he was never consistent. The expectations people have of him is not surprising. He is a very gifted player who also projects a super star brand in the media.

Whatever he projects should never have an impact of how he should be perceived.
By that I know he has never been and will never be a player who carries his team on his back, no amount of propaganda from him and his team will change how I view him.
It is stupid for me to fall for that.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

I think he's off this Summer.

It'll be interesting to see how he copes at Real Madrid if he goes there. For all his supposed arrogance and swagger and social media and all that shit I think he's pretty thin skinned.

He could score the winner in the CL final for Madrid against Barcelona and then if he has 2 or 3 bad games the following season the Madrid fans will be all over him.

Not sure he'd cope well.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Perfect.

Surely it falls down because Pogba has been engineering his own move away at the same time?

 

[roonster09]

Surely it falls down because Pogba has been engineering his own move away at the same time?

That's speculation but Herrera's is fact as he said himself that he will leave. Even if he in engineering a move, one got shit loads of abuse (who will fetch loads of money in transfer fee) and other is getting tears from fans who has run down the contract, left for nothing and made the summer rebuild even tougher.

 

[CLK_FPC]

That's speculation but Herrera's is fact as he said himself that he will leave. Even if he in engineering a move, one got shit loads of abuse (who will fetch loads of money in transfer fee) and other is getting tears from fans who has run down the contract, left for nothing and made the summer rebuild even tougher.

Bingo

 

[Kostov]

There is an appalling video of Pogba for Cardiff's second goal. If someone can provide a gif or something it would serve well all of you defending Pogba like he does not deserve any stick. It's embarrassing.

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[roonster09]

There is an appalling video of Pogba for Cardiff's second goal. If someone can provide a gif or something it would serve well all of you defending Pogba like he does not deserve any stick. It's embarrassing.

So? Didn't see any abuse for McTominay, De Gea for making mistakes. If anything that goal was completely on McTominay.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

That's speculation but Herrera's is fact as he said himself that he will leave. Even if he in engineering a move, one got shit loads of abuse (who will fetch loads of money in transfer fee) and other is getting tears from fans who has run down the contract, left for nothing and made the summer rebuild even tougher.

Bingo

Herrera was earning £75k a week and had not been offered a new deal by the board until very late on in his contract. After the signing of Sanchez our wage structure was shattered and we couldn't come to an agreement with Herrera who simply had a much better offer from PSG. The fans rightly blame Woodward principally for mishandling Herrera's renewal. It never should have happened. I think there are perfectly reasonable grounds to empathise with Herrera's position.

Pogba gave an interview that opened the door to a move to Real on the eve of the biggest game of our season.

If you think he isn't trying to engineer a move to Madrid and that Mino isn't in negotiations with them right now then I feel you are being willfully naive.

 

[roonster09]

Herrera was earning £75k a week and had not been offered a new deal by the board until very late on in his contract. After the signing of Sanchez our wage structure was shattered and we couldn't come to an agreement with Herrera who simply had a much better offer from PSG. The fans rightly blame Woodward principally for mishandling Herrera's renewal. It never should have happened. I think there are perfectly reasonable grounds to empathise with Herrera's position.

Pogba gave an interview that opened the door to a move to Real on the eve of the biggest game of our season.

If you think he isn't trying to engineer a move to Madrid and that Mino isn't in negotiations with them right now then I feel you are being willfully naive.

I didn't say he is saying or not negotiating a move. I said why Pogba leaving isn't a problem as we get money and Herrera leaving is as we need to do lot more and we lost 30 million worth of transfer fee.

Herrera talks nice, so he gets pass for everything.

 

[Kostov]

So? Didn't see any abuse for McTominay, De Gea for making mistakes. If anything that goal was completely on McTominay.

So? I'm not saying McTominay should not get any stick, he should he fecked up the most. And DDG has been torn to pieces on here after being a much better servant than Pogba for years. Pogba is embarrassing on that video, absolute shambles and deserved to be criticized. Feck him.

 

[Enigma_87]

So? Didn't see any abuse for McTominay, De Gea for making mistakes. If anything that goal was completely on McTominay.

Really?

 

[In Rainbows]

Whether 'downed tools', 'started complaining', 'dropped form', all the same to me. Except we are in denial, Pogba famously took the fight to his manager.

People confuse his bad games with downed tools. I seriously think the only performance where you can say he downed tools is the Southampton match. It's possible to have bad performances, but not down tools.

For example, Pogba famously shot back at Mourinho following the Leicester match right? Yet in that same match he was MOTM. He could have downed tools against Newcastle when Mourinho was rumored to getting sacked, yet he had another MOTM performance when that was the best opportunity. For some reason, people think Pogba's bad performances are down to his attitude and everyone else's performances are down to just quality. Probably due to his flashy persona on social media (which he doesn't excessively use), and his languid playing style.

 

[CLK_FPC]

Herrera was earning £75k a week and had not been offered a new deal by the board until very late on in his contract. After the signing of Sanchez our wage structure was shattered and we couldn't come to an agreement with Herrera who simply had a much better offer from PSG. The fans rightly blame Woodward principally for mishandling Herrera's renewal. It never should have happened. I think there are perfectly reasonable grounds to empathise with Herrera's position.

Pogba gave an interview that opened the door to a move to Real on the eve of the biggest game of our season.

If you think he isn't trying to engineer a move to Madrid and that Mino isn't in negotiations with them right now then I feel you are being willfully naive.

We did leave it late, but all this 'United in my blood' and even the latest interview 'United will do well under Ole (I just won't be here for it)" are a mockery.
He's (going to be) 30 years old, wanted a year 200k contract and whilst Sanchez has ruined the wage structure, if he loves the club as much as he says he's gone about the contract renewal all wrong.

Not even going to touch on the fact he played 1 game since it became clear that he was leaving and rumours that he opted to sit out with an 'injury'.

And I'll remind you that whilst I wasn't fond of Pogba's answer to the Real question, he finished it by saying: 'At the moment I play for Manchester United and I am happy'

 

[JJ12]

There is an appalling video of Pogba for Cardiff's second goal. If someone can provide a gif or something it would serve well all of you defending Pogba like he does not deserve any stick. It's embarrassing.

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Puts hands on his hips.

I don't want him to leave because he's the only potential world class player we have on his day.

If he keeps playing like he doesn't give a feck then he has to go. Also if he asks to go then let him.

 

[JPRouve]

There is an appalling video of Pogba for Cardiff's second goal. If someone can provide a gif or something it would serve well all of you defending Pogba like he does not deserve any stick. It's embarrassing.

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That goal is on the team as a whole, while McTominay makes a mistake and Pogba should have sprinted back, even just for show, the defensive positioning is dreadful, there is no good reason to have McTominay where he is and the distance between players is ridiculous, you are not supposed to defend a throw-in on the entire width of the field.

 

[roonster09]

Really?

Didn't he make mistakes?

 

[JPRouve]

Didn't he make mistakes?

People called for his sale.