Declan Rice | Switches international allegiance to England four years ago

Stick

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Sorry I fundamentally disagree. Firstly, you're hugely underrating Keane's ability on the ball which was far better than just 'simple' and 'accurate'. All of the very best teams in the world have a playmaker in midfield, someone to control the tempo, retain possession, switch the play and pick out key passes. Pogba is capable of some of those things, but not all of them and so for me the most important midfielder we can find is someone in the ilk of Modric, Scholes, Pirlo etc etc. For the 'stopper' role, we need someone that can get around the pitch and play with extreme quality ala Carrick. I am just not convinced that Rice has any of those qualities at all, like someone said above he looks more in the mould of Eric Dier who frankly no absolute top team would touch.
I dont underrate keane at all. I just dont think you fully appreciate the role of the stopper. A good stopper can dictate the pace of a game and control ala a playmaker. Keane was a playmaker but not in the mould of Pirlo or Modric. Keane's strength was his ability to push players forward and control a game. He was a very good ball player and when younger he could arrive late in the box for goals but the reason he lasted as long as he did as a box to box midfielder was his ability to lead. I havent seen the midfield general type player in a while maybe Keane and Vieira were the last world class ones but I think Rice has show these qualities at a very young age which is unusual.
 

Zebs

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Jesus lads this thread is crazy. It's grand he's playing for England, in fact it's the right choice for him if he can make the squad consistently. No sane Irish person takes the national team seriously. We have 3 sports that come before it does and the GAA sports in particular are a lot more important in terms of 'locality' (try being from Kildare the last bloody 10 years and come back to me) and rivalry. Of course we like watching England lose because it's hilarious but I'd much rather England win a World Cup than Liverpool win the League. Either way we have 2 or 3 Daragh Rice's at every age group coming through anyway.
:houllier: Speak for yourself bud.
 

andyox

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Funnily enough England lost Lukas Nmecha to Germany this very international break. He actually made his Germany debut on Tuesday against England u21s! He won 31 youth caps for England and scored the winning goals in the 2017 u19 European Championship semi final and final for England. I don't think he's that good (he came from the bench to score those important goals for England), he couldn't get in the England u21 squad recently but it probably means we'll lose his much more talented younger brother Felix too. It happens. They're both born in Germany to a German mother but brought up mostly in England so its no shock.
They've followed slightly different paths so far. Lukas played for England from U16s right up to U21s and has just made the switch to Germany. Felix started with England at U16s, switched to Germany for U18s, and has now switched back to England for U18s. As Felix is younger, he came to England at a younger age so maybe will have more affinity with England than Lukas?

Agree with your overall assessment though. Realistically I don't think Lukas is going to be an international level striker so potentially not a huge loss. Felix looks like he may be more talented so may have more of a chance. Who knows though. Maybe they'll both play for Nigeria if they can't make the breakthrough for England or Germany?!

I suppose it shows that players with multiple eligibility for international football have quite a lot of power to decide in these situations, and I don't think any country can feel aggrieved to "lose" a player in these circumstances. Players should choose what's best for them. 99% of these players' development is based on their talent and their coaching at club academies, it really has nothing to do with the limited contribution of national team training a few times a year.
 

Classical Mechanic

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They've followed slightly different paths so far. Lukas played for England from U16s right up to U21s and has just made the switch to Germany. Felix started with England at U16s, switched to Germany for U18s, and has now switched back to England for U18s. As Felix is younger, he came to England at a younger age so maybe will have more affinity with England than Lukas?

Agree with your overall assessment though. Realistically I don't think Lukas is going to be an international level striker so potentially not a huge loss. Felix looks like he may be more talented so may have more of a chance. Who knows though. Maybe they'll both play for Nigeria if they can't make the breakthrough for England or Germany?!

I suppose it shows that players with multiple eligibility for international football have quite a lot of power to decide in these situations, and I don't think any country can feel aggrieved to "lose" a player in these circumstances. Players should choose what's best for them. 99% of these players' development is based on their talent and their coaching at club academies, it really has nothing to do with the limited contribution of national team training a few times a year.
Lukas can’t make another switch, you get one switch if you’ve appeared in competitive games for another nation at youth level.

What’s strange is that Lukas was with England for so long but Felix seemed like he was veering towards Germany recently but then he was called up in to both squads and chose England. Perhaps Germany are using Lukas to bring Felix back, all speculation but it seems odd that they’d go after Lukas when he was pretty far from getting in the England squad. Che Adams and Jarrod Bowen can’t even get in the 21s currently and they’re out performing Lukas by a long way in The Championship this season. Apparently Felix is torn between which side to play for, he didn’t get much game time in the 19s disastrous break this time so that won’t help our cause I don’t think. Germany like to hedge their bets, there’s a really talented English/German called Jamal Musiala in the u16s that plays for England but every break Germany call him up on their official squad lists even though he chooses England. His family surely tell them that before hand. Just letting him know that they’re there him if he changes his mind.

I think international training can help development though, especially when the sides are competing in major international competition. Ireland are doing well on that count recently and are qualifying for quite a few.
 
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andyox

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Lukas can’t make another switch, you get one switch if you’ve appeared in competitive games for another nation at youth level.

What’s strange is that Lukas was with England for so long but Felix seemed like he was veering towards Germany recently but then he was called up in to both squads and chose England. Perhaps Germany are using Lukas to bring Felix back, all speculation but it seems odd that they’d go after Lukas when he was pretty far from getting in the England squad. Che Adams and Jarrod Bowen can’t even get in the 21s currently and they’re out performing Lukas by a long way in The Championship this season. Apparently Felix is torn between which side to play for, he didn’t get much game time in the 19s disastrous break this time so that won’t help our cause I don’t think. Germany like to hedge their bets, there’s a really talented English/German called Jamal Musiala in the u16s that plays for England but every break Germany call him up on their official squad lists even though he chooses England. His family surely tell them that before hand. Just letting him know that they’re there him if he changes his mind.

I think international training can help development though, especially when the sides are competing in major international competition. Ireland are doing well on that count recently and are qualifying for quite a few.
Interesting, didn't know that about the switching rule at youth levels. I can't see Lukas ever playing for Germany to be honest, but hope he proves me wrong. I think he's a decent player and will have a decent career, just not at the top, top level.

On the last point, perhaps there's a bigger difference between playing for a country that qualifies for youth tournaments vs one that doesn't, but for the Nmechas I doubt their careers will be influenced too much by whether they play for England or Germany at youth level really? Lukas has got some medals for England I suppose.

I think most of the national associations are trying to cynically exploit the system in the chase for young players. So I don't really have any sympathy if players with multiple eligibility exploit the system as well. You win some, you lose some.
 

dbs235

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I agree. The FA accidentally struck gold here. Were it not for Big Sam and his pints of wine you may never have found him!
Think Allerdyce would have been sacked after going out of the World Cup and Southgate would have just been hired this season.
 

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Think Allerdyce would have been sacked after going out of the World Cup and Southgate would have just been hired this season.
I wouldnt have said so. Southgate was fortunate that Allardyce was sacked at an odd time and he was the only realistic option for the FA. After a world cup you could have had numerous options. Wenger was one. Would you say the FA would take Southgate over Wenger?
 

Classical Mechanic

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I wouldnt have said so. Southgate was fortunate that Allardyce was sacked at an odd time and he was the only realistic option for the FA. After a world cup you could have had numerous options. Wenger was one. Would you say the FA would take Southgate over Wenger?
The FA won’t hire another foreign coach for a long time after Capello.
 

Zebs

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G'wan Séamie!
 

Rozay

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He’s quality. People in the TF been calling him an underwhelming target, but he’s been as good as you could want any young DM to be this season.
 
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Apart from the top stat though, what do the rest mean? There might be 50 players with better numbers than him. 160 of those passes into the final third might not have been completed.
So you can get a better gist - He's a good young player that will clearly improve.

 

Smores

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I'm a bit wary that hype has gone overboard on this lad. It would be very much typical of us to pay a significant fee just for him to show it was a one off season.
 

The Nani

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I hate midfield destroyer types and don’t think any top side should have to play with one.

But it certainly seems to be paying dividends in the Champion’s League these days.

So I’ve warmed to this signing a bit after being adamantly against it at first. But only if the fee is no more than £40-50m.
 

Adamsk7

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Him or Ndidi would be a great buy for £50m. Think personally I’d prefer Ndidi but I can totally understand why the club may want Rice instead - he’s slightly more progressive on the ball and of course he’s British and I think the club may want to get back to having a British core.
 

Kapardin

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I hate midfield destroyer types and don’t think any top side should have to play with one.

But it certainly seems to be paying dividends in the Champion’s League these days.

So I’ve warmed to this signing a bit after being adamantly against it at first. But only if the fee is no more than £40-50m.
Felt the same, especially after Schneiderlin flopshow.

But it does seem a requirement now. Especially for us, as we aren't even a top side anyway at the moment.
 

Mr PG

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Please lets get Ruben Neves. Rice will be a Mourinho like signing but we need all around better more intelligent players. Neves will add creativity all from base of midfield so we're not over-reliant on Pogba.
 

tenpoless

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I hate midfield destroyer types and don’t think any top side should have to play with one.

But it certainly seems to be paying dividends in the Champion’s League these days.

So I’ve warmed to this signing a bit after being adamantly against it at first. But only if the fee is no more than £40-50m.
How about Kante then?
 

Red00012

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I’d prefer Ndidi and I’d imagine he’d be cheaper than Rice.
 

Solius

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I usually rate him but he’s looked a bit rubbish in the WC so far. Very slow and second to most things.
 

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What are his strengths supposed to be? Or is he more one of those all-rounder types that doesn't actually really excel at anything in particular?
 

CallyRed

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First 2 games has been very poor but I don't think he has had a good season in general. One of many England players who aren't in form.

His first touch has been shocking mind
 

Abraxas

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Not his finest hour. Looked incredibly lethargic and off the pace tonight, which is bizarre, for West Ham he usually looks athletic and lasts the course so that's surprising to see. Critique of his buildup is one thing but to see him lacking legs and energy was strange.

His ball carrying is usually much better and we didn't see any of that. In fact I think for England he doesn't show enough of that compared to at West Ham. It's like the only thing he is expected to do is stand between the centre backs, which really isn't enough against a team you're supposed to beat