Mourinho comments about our season to L'Equipe

mitchmouse

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he doesn't actual say very much - and certainly nothing incendiary. he continues to show quite a lot of class, but then I've always thought that. last night saw one of those old Sky programmes - Premiership Years. It was the one where we just pipped Chelsea to title (came from two down at everton to win 4-2 with eagles scoring the final goal). Jose went to the Chelsea fans and (with signs) told them to keep their chins up. Remembering seeing it lvie and feeing great respect for him
 

LazyRed-Ninja

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But it wasn’t “any other season”, it was that season, and before Jose, the season before that one , and before that, and the one before that and...

We need to stop living in the past. The competition don’t care if this season’s points total would have won us the league in 2011, or finished us in the top four in 2017. They don’t care if in 2008, we won a Champions League, they don’t care if in 2012, we scored more back-heel overhead volleys from the left hand side of the d, with less than three touches in open play...no one cares. All they care about is that every single season, the bar is being raised, and they’re the ones doing it, while we’re bleating about “but in such and such year, this or that points total would have qualified us for the Haribo Cup.” God, it’s almost unfair that all these teams aren’t allowing us to transpose our 1991 league points total into 2019!

The league table is all that matters.
Living in the past can be emotionalism, but it is neccesary to contextualize these kind of things. The league table is all that matters, if that is the case, how has Mourinho failed in comparison to Moyes and LVG? Mourinho did ‘relatively’ better then all the managers post Sir Alex. This season the team conceded almost double the amount of goals then the previous season. These are objective points one can judge. It ‘strengthens’ the whole debacle of United failing to add a defender which contributed to the pre season debacle and how this season evolved (not saying it was the maine cause though). Also, you make a valid point, the standard has been set higher by the rival clubs and what increased that gap ? The failure from within, to actually establish a clear vision with competent recruitment, rather then spending the cheque book around, just to convince players to play for United. The structural issues and incompetence from within the club contributed to other clubs achieving their objectives with a clear vision on whom they wanted to recruit and the system to utilise. We are not disagreeing here, we judge the previous season, to observe wether Mourinho was right in publically calling players out and as you have seen, players (how many?) didnt show the right attitude and mentality as soon as Ole penned down his contract. Coincidence ? Very unlikely.
 

Mainoldo

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Fair comments. He still needed the sack though. The man wanted Willian and Boateng.
 

RedRonaldo

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Mourinho has to take at least half the blame there, afterall he build this team with 400m budget in 4 transfer window..... If it is poor team, then large part of it is his fault too.,..
 

Kapardin

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You completely missed or ignored the point. Let's try this again:






I could also write it as "Nobody cares about 2.13 ppg because of United's diabolical form under Jose in the second half of last season, just like you said". See how it has nothing to do with your stance on Jose? My comment about Jose being shite was my own and I didn't attribute it to you.

So no, I didn't barge into the wrong discussion and yes I understood everything that was discussed.
You are missing the point again. One could then easily say, "Ole relegated Cardiff and lost so many games now, so his ppg doesn't matter".

That's not the way arguments work, or you wouldn't have people discussing Ole's and Jose's ppg here.
 

roonster09

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he doesn't actual say very much - and certainly nothing incendiary. he continues to show quite a lot of class, but then I've always thought that. last night saw one of those old Sky programmes - Premiership Years. It was the one where we just pipped Chelsea to title (came from two down at everton to win 4-2 with eagles scoring the final goal). Jose went to the Chelsea fans and (with signs) told them to keep their chins up. Remembering seeing it lvie and feeing great respect for him
:lol: Class and Jose.
 

Big Ben Foster

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Ages of players the summer Mourinho wanted to sign them:

Willian: 29
Perisic: 28
Toby: 29

Let's set aside the question of whether or not they were good enough or how they would fit into our system and let's just focus on age for now. Why do people talk about these players as if they were on the verge of retirement? This isn't FM - a player who looks after himself, doesn't rely heavily on pace, and avoids muscle injuries can easily play at the highest level until 33-34.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Ages of players the summer Mourinho wanted to sign them:

Willian: 29
Perisic: 28
Toby: 29

Let's set aside the question of whether or not they were good enough or how they would fit into our system and let's just focus on age for now. Why do people talk about these players as if they were on the verge of retirement? This isn't FM - a player who looks after himself, doesn't rely heavily on pace, and avoids muscle injuries can easily play at the highest level until 33-34.
I’ve always maintained that too. But the steep decline post-30 we’ve seen from Rooney, Van Persie, Falcao, Sanchez and now Matic does make you wonder.
 

AJ10

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Ages of players the summer Mourinho wanted to sign them:

Willian: 29
Perisic: 28
Toby: 29

Let's set aside the question of whether or not they were good enough or how they would fit into our system and let's just focus on age for now. Why do people talk about these players as if they were on the verge of retirement? This isn't FM - a player who looks after himself, doesn't rely heavily on pace, and avoids muscle injuries can easily play at the highest level until 33-34.
Good point about Toby as I always thought we'd need a good older Cb than a young potential but that bold part rules out those 2 wingers and they're not worth 60+ mil each (according to reports).
 

ThierryHenry14

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Ages of players the summer Mourinho wanted to sign them:

Willian: 29
Perisic: 28
Toby: 29

Let's set aside the question of whether or not they were good enough or how they would fit into our system and let's just focus on age for now. Why do people talk about these players as if they were on the verge of retirement? This isn't FM - a player who looks after himself, doesn't rely heavily on pace, and avoids muscle injuries can easily play at the highest level until 33-34.
May be it has to do with the ambition of the club. The club and the fans want immediate success, so he has to buy experience players who can contribute and challenge for title right away. think about he already won the EL, league cup, and got 2nd place, so the next step is to do all he can to challenge for title. He has no time to develop young players like Maddison, Tielemans or Ndidi. He need players that can help him close the gap with Man city right away. He said he need winger to provide the cross for Lukaku, and a experienced CB. From the way I see it is once Ibra left the club Mou lost control of the dressing room.
 

MackRobinson

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Which would you rather discuss, based on the OP: What are the issues at Man United, or what are the issues with Jose Mourinho?

The first interest me more, and while this interview doesn’t say much - knowing Joe - then whatever in it can be seen as a polemic inuendo, probably is. So the player he bought/got and built his team around, Pogba, is pointed out, yes, but also made clear it goes much deeper. Martial is pointed out, but it goes further.

The ‘2nd place was brilliant’ comments repeated repeatedly to me suggests two things: He was not content with the player pool, and given that many of the players arrived at his watch, I take it to mean that he wasn’t happy with neither the process of bringing players in, nor the lack of players moving on, particularly in his first and third summer window. This is fairly consistent with interviews he’s made previously. So it’s Woodward, of course, but possibly also Marcel Bout, or even the whole set up.

I’m guessing Mourinho would have moved on Mkhi and Shaw fairly early on, and Martial and Pogba when he saw that they couldn’t or wouldn’t adapt or develop thwir game as he wished, to bring new players in. We know he complained about low confidence, immatture attitude and lack of tactical awareness. I’m guessing he implies that the set up can’t identify these factors in a player, and doesn’t support the manager when he needs to move someone on to improve these aspects of the squad.

We know Ferguson did such numbers constantly, he could ask for a player, or develop a player, and if he found he didn’t have the right personality or whatever, he would move him on snappish (like Veron, Ince, Sharpe, Beckham). This is how he would rebuild the mentality of the group.

Mourinho was a breath of sour air, possibly a dinosaur (I’m not so sure about that yet) and with a short term personality. But if he’s still right about meeting obstacles in building a winning group of footballers from within the setup, I suspect Ferguson, Solskjær and anyone else would also struggle with that.
Don't fall for his deflections. After the summer of 17/18 he called it "his team" and said United were equipped for a title challenge.
"In many ways, it is my team. In terms of the squad, this is my second transfer window. I was thinking, three transfer windows, I need that. But after two windows I have a good group and a football club much better equipped."

"To buy lots of good players is important. Better squads are better equipped to win the title. That is normal, but that is not enough. I think every one of us is equipped to win the title."
Then when the bad results came, it wasn't his team.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...d-far-play-image-liverpool-transfers-trophies

Liverpool are viewed as a team in their manager’s image and Mourinho was asked whether the same could be said for him and United.
“Far,” he replied, before indicating that the reasons run deeper than transfers. “A football team is not just about spending the money,” he said. “A football team is like a house, too; a house is not just about buying the furniture. You have to do work in the house and when the house is ready, then you buy the furniture, you spend money on the best possible furniture and then you are ready to live in an amazing house.”
You can't make this stuff up.
 

Rightnr

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What he says is correct but he still crap in his job and deserved the sack.
 

ThierryHenry14

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What i don't understand about Man Utd is, if you don't back your manager in the summer, you can sack him, or give him "better players" that can do better job than Willian, Perisic or Toby. What's the point to undermine him by leaking to the press about the "bad choice" he wants to sign?
 

Adisa

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The club is a disaster zone. Mourinho was also a disaster. The two positions aren't mutually exclusive.
 

Mcking

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I love how he is using another failing manager as justification for his own shortcomings. Maybe I should go and apply for the United job too to prove that the structure and the players are the problem.
 

JPRouve

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I’ve always maintained that too. But the steep decline post-30 we’ve seen from Rooney, Van Persie, Falcao, Sanchez and now Matic does make you wonder.
Players around 30 are a genuine risk, SAF was right to not trust them and manage them with short contracts. You never know when they are going to breakdown physically, particularly when you haven't had the opportunity to monitor and manage their fitness in their 20s. Even someone like Rio, one summer and he was the shadow of his former self.
 

Offside

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He should be ashamed of himself mouthing off after he was such a useless tool.
 

Rusholme Ruffian

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May be it has to do with the ambition of the club. The club and the fans want immediate success, so he has to buy experience players who can contribute and challenge for title right away. think about he already won the EL, league cup, and got 2nd place, so the next step is to do all he can to challenge for title. He has no time to develop young players like Maddison, Tielemans or Ndidi. He need players that can help him close the gap with Man city right away. He said he need winger to provide the cross for Lukaku, and a experienced CB. From the way I see it is once Ibra left the club Mou lost control of the dressing room.
You make good points.
Don't fall for his deflections. After the summer of 17/18 he called it "his team" and said United were equipped for a title challenge.


Then when the bad results came, it wasn't his team.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...d-far-play-image-liverpool-transfers-trophies



You can't make this stuff up.
Ha ha, love that you heralded your arrival in the thread by describing yourself as a 'casual observer' and accusing another poster of being biased when it comes to Mourinho! I have to say, you're not coming across as that casual :p
 

Sir Scott McToMinay

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Just a little reminder, Jose Mourinho played players out of position just to prove a point to the board, which resulted in us losing said matches.

Anyone who wants him back or thinks it was a mistake to sack him should be embarrassed for themselves.
 

Scarecrow

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He doesn't say anything. What am I missing? What have you discussed for 9 pages? :lol:
 

sullydnl

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I’ve always maintained that too. But the steep decline post-30 we’ve seen from Rooney, Van Persie, Falcao, Sanchez and now Matic does make you wonder.
In fairness to Falcao, he got good again once he left the UK, helping Monaco to the CL semi-finals and getting nominated for the Ballon D'Or in 2017. Not sure the problems he had here (and at Chelsea) were really down to age.
 

JPRouve

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In fairness to Falcao, he got good again once he left the UK, helping Monaco to the CL semi-finals and getting nominated for the Ballon D'Or in 2017. Not sure the problems he had here (and at Chelsea) were really down to age.
His problem was down to fitness, he did his knee in January 2014 and rushed himself in order to play the WC.
 

JPRouve

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He doesn't say anything. What am I missing? What have you discussed for 9 pages? :lol:
The usual. "Mourinho smells funny!", "No, he is the prettiest!".

We all have a hard time moving on.
 

Rusholme Ruffian

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A journalist using the term fanboy, cringy as hell.

Terrible journalism.
Agreed. I also don't really know what he means about 'valuing image over substance'? If anything the image of the club suffered under him, but the substance of what he'd achieved was actually not as bad as it looked. Particularly as Ole is running into exactly the same problems with certain players.
 
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Sterling Archer

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he doesn't actual say very much - and certainly nothing incendiary. he continues to show quite a lot of class, but then I've always thought that. last night saw one of those old Sky programmes - Premiership Years. It was the one where we just pipped Chelsea to title (came from two down at everton to win 4-2 with eagles scoring the final goal). Jose went to the Chelsea fans and (with signs) told them to keep their chins up. Remembering seeing it lvie and feeing great respect for him
Yup. He's been as mindful as can be expected given the new role he's in undoubtedly brings these tough questions on.

If you think of it like a relationship breakup, he sounds very level headed. He for sure has his opinions of the reasons for the relationship failing, which he is entitled to. He doesn't need to change his views for anyone else. It was personal to him in a way we won't ever know, especially with some of the nondisclosure.

But it is amazing to see so many on the other side of that relationship - I'm lumping United fans along with the club here - that can't let it rest. The hatred and animosity as if Jose was the reason we've been unsuccessful for 7 years. Jose wasn't the right fit for us, but he's not at fault here for us being a complete mental ward of a club to manage. WE are the crazy one in this broken relationship.
 

MackRobinson

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You make good points.


Ha ha, love that you heralded your arrival in the thread by describing yourself as a 'casual observer' and accusing another poster of being biased when it comes to Mourinho! I have to say, you're not coming across as that casual :p
I was talking more about him contradicting himself repeatedly, but I don't consider myself biased at all. By all objective measurements and by his own comments Jose Mourinho failed miserably in transfer market and on the pitch. It's pretty clear. The only way to absolve him of blame is to speculate that the players downed tools and/or the board sabotaged him. I for one won't ignore the evidence right in front of my face to believe tabloid speculation. That's not bias in the slightest.
 

Celoti23-81

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We don't need a rebuild?

How can you say that with 3, sometimes 4 of our back 5 being Fergie signings!

I would take any Liverpool midfielder over ours right now. Look how they play and look how we play, delusion is the right word but we have a squad not fit for purpose.

We have bad attitudes, years of bad signings for the wrong reasons.

A re-build is exactly what we need.

You cant do it all in 1 window, but we have at least 10 players who need to be sold.

Jones/Smalling/Rojo/Darmian/Young/Pogba/Fred/Sanchez/Lingard/Martial all have no place for me. For form/attitude various reasons.
Ok, so you could argue Oxlade Chamberlain had a bad attitude until he played for Klopp!
Same as every player at Real when Solari was manager.
Would Pogba have a bad attitude if he went to Real and play under Zidane? Does he have a bad attitude for France? Don't think so.
Mourinho was toxic, at nearly every club he managed towards the end. Players did not like it. They grew an attitude towards the end.
Is Solskjaer out of his depth, and the players have no faith in his ability as a world class coach.
I bet you your last dollar, if Klopp became manager at Utd tomorrow, every single player would improve.
And by me saying, it doesn't have to be a rebuild, if solskjaer is as good as his first 14 games, then all he needs is a right back, centre back, midfielder and right winger.

Have you seen Lukaku's goal scoring record last 5 years? It's been really good. Is Pogba a world cup winner who played well out of position in that tournament. Did martial score 17 in his first season under a proper coach? Yes.

We've gone from Mourinho who historically has to sign big to succeed to Ole, who no one knows if he is even an average manager/coach
 

Rusholme Ruffian

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By all objective measurements and by his own comments Jose Mourinho failed miserably in transfer market and on the pitch.
His own comments? Didn't he say that finishing 2nd the season before last was his best achievement?

I mean, he was sacked in year 3, so there's obviously failure there, but the year before we finished second and reached the cup final, and in his first season he managed to win the League Cup and Europa League. Most clubs would kill for a bit of that failure.
 

MackRobinson

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His own comments? Didn't he say that finishing 2nd the season before last was his best achievement?

I mean, he was sacked in year 3, so there's obviously failure there, but the year before we finished second and reached the cup final, and in his first season he managed to win the League Cup and Europa League. Most clubs would kill for a bit of that failure.
Read the articles I posted earlier. At the beginning of the 2017/18 season he says it's his team and they can challenge for the title. In a year and a half, after bringing in Sanchez, Fred, and Dalot, it's not his team. Now finishing 2nd that year (miles behind City) is his best achievement? Can't understand how this is defensible. I'm trying but I can't.
 

Celoti23-81

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Ages of players the summer Mourinho wanted to sign them:

Willian: 29
Perisic: 28
Toby: 29

Let's set aside the question of whether or not they were good enough or how they would fit into our system and let's just focus on age for now. Why do people talk about these players as if they were on the verge of retirement? This isn't FM - a player who looks after himself, doesn't rely heavily on pace, and avoids muscle injuries can easily play at the highest level until 33-34.
And proves that Woodward was right not go for those players. Doesn't matter which way you look at the Glazers and Woodward, they have spent. Their biggest downfall has been managerial appointments. Post SAF era, Van Gaal has been the best manager we have had. He had his own philosophy and gave youth a chance, and got that youth to play really well. Now we are back to doing what LVG did, but with Solskjaer, with no proven record!

The biggest managerial mistake the board did was appoint Mourinho, who had a completely different philosophy to LVG. Thus players weren't suited to how Mourinho wanted to play.
 

Sandikan

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If Jose was really being honest, he'd admit that he failed because he wasn't given unlimited funds because he's the absolute textbook example of a cheque book manager.
Doesn't improve players, doesn't look long term, just buys peak age players for top fees, and is found out now not even the Barcelona/Real Madrid types can't do as much of that as they used to.
 

Rusholme Ruffian

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Read the articles I posted earlier. At the beginning of the 2017/18 season he says it's his team and they can challenge for the title. In a year and a half, after bringing in Sanchez, Fred, and Dalot, it's not his team. Now finishing 2nd that year (miles behind City) is his best achievement? Can't understand how this is defensible. I'm trying but I can't.
Yeeeeah, still not coming across as particularly 'objective' I have to say!

But how many of us are when it comes to United? We all have our personal beliefs/narratives/agendas.
 

beedoubleyou

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A journalist using the term fanboy, cringy as hell.

Terrible journalism.
I don't think Twitter is journalism. I also don't think using commonly understood words to illustrate a point is 'cringy as hell'.

Holt, for once, makes a good point.