Sigurdsson scored the same amount as him and 2 of those came from penalties. 7 out of 13 of Pogba's PL goals came from penalties
Evra's interview with Neville
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
good thing Sigurdsson is not a CM
I saw the first half and far too much emphasis on winners, mentality, effort, heart etc.
Compare the technical qualities of our title winning sided with this first. We have too many areas of the pitch where we have promising and inconsistent young players and under performing older players. Then there's the management problem - if your team is tactically poor, doesn't run enough, apparently doesn't care, then what have the managers been doing all this time?
Compare the technical qualities of our title winning sided with this first. We have too many areas of the pitch where we have promising and inconsistent young players and under performing older players. Then there's the management problem - if your team is tactically poor, doesn't run enough, apparently doesn't care, then what have the managers been doing all this time?
I like Pogba and don't believe he's this supposed virus. At the same time, his goalscoring stats are pretty misleading due to the enormous proportion of penalities. As for his job, he does do it to a fair extent, but I believe there is truth to both sides of the story
- That Pogba should be part of a fully functional team. We should direct our ire more at the collective.
- That Pogba could do a lot more and more consistently, as an individual. He doesn't play as well as a team player as he should. Also, if he's an attacking midfielder and not CM, he needs to pull the attack together more being the star man. At times he just disappears as an attacking force in tough games.
Neither is Pogba
Madrid fans used to jeer Ronaldo. RONALDO!!! They are a fickle bunch. Pogba will do horrible in Madrid. His laziness will be booed and jeered constantly. Perhaps football should make a new rule which states that you aren't allowed to pressure Pogba, because we all know that when given time, he can be deadly. However, we also know that pogba can be completely marked out of a game by mark fecking noble
Gary Neville says some good things at times but his reluctance to call out English players fecks me off.
Yes he is...
He plays more as an attacking midfielder for us.
What do you mean by that? He is certainly not a number 10.
You want me to tell you what an attacking midfielder is?
He's more Di Maria (Real Madrid version) than Modric/Kroos/Xavi/Scholes.
A midfielder that we depend on in build up is not a CM?
We depend much more on Matic and Herrera to win the midfield battle. Pogba adds the spark. He's an attacking midfielder. You do know they tend to do some work in the buildup right?
Im sorry but Pogba is a CM. We just rely on him in all three phases. He’s an excellent ball carrier and he is creative but that does not mean he is not a CM.
Ronaldo gave blood, sweat and tears every week. Pogba walks off the pitch most games without a bead of sweat on his forehead or a speck of mud on his kit
So many pundits/posters line-up to defend Pogba, fact is, unless I am watching the wrong footballer, he just does not run as hard, work as hard or commit to the game like a world class footballer should. Great when he is on the ball, total liability when he is not - that's not good enough
It was just what we fans already know more or less. United is run without the sporting performances on their mind. Like Woodward said, the performances on the pitch doesn't affect what United as a brand perform. As long as we churn out some decent results, it should be ok. I really don't know what the board has in their mind regarding United sporting wise. If they will still backing the manager then United should cut out all the losses they can with the deadwoods (all the usual suspects) and gives the manager a somewhat clean slate to work with. Any players that half ass buy into what the manager want to do then should be sold also.
Players should be purchased to fit what the manager want to play. Get those has something to prove and hungry with characters. Don't need to build around any particular players, just buy whoever that can help the team achieving what we want to play as a team rather than any individuals.
Re Pogba incident, fans will be fans, with the season we have, the going fans would expect a win in the last game of the season from United with one of worst team this season. And, the players couldn't even managed than and went on to lose the game by 2 goals. Fans wouldn't have it at that moments with all those players parade around the stadium.
Remember that Pogba had already involved himself with the Madrid bound saga way before this, and he expect the fans to warm to him even with the result on that particular day?. It's a hard ask. I know players are human too but if you're a professional in certain professions then it comes with its pros and cons. If he decide to leave then the club should get what maximum we can get from his sale, and just that, don't try to use that incident to cover his intention to leave. From his arrival, i never have the feeling that he's that in love with United like what he and the PR team try to portrait. It's just a marriage of conveniences with both side wanting to expand their brands. Now, if he wants to leave then so be it. Use the money to buy another players that could help the team.
Players should be purchased to fit what the manager want to play. Get those has something to prove and hungry with characters. Don't need to build around any particular players, just buy whoever that can help the team achieving what we want to play as a team rather than any individuals.
Re Pogba incident, fans will be fans, with the season we have, the going fans would expect a win in the last game of the season from United with one of worst team this season. And, the players couldn't even managed than and went on to lose the game by 2 goals. Fans wouldn't have it at that moments with all those players parade around the stadium.
Remember that Pogba had already involved himself with the Madrid bound saga way before this, and he expect the fans to warm to him even with the result on that particular day?. It's a hard ask. I know players are human too but if you're a professional in certain professions then it comes with its pros and cons. If he decide to leave then the club should get what maximum we can get from his sale, and just that, don't try to use that incident to cover his intention to leave. From his arrival, i never have the feeling that he's that in love with United like what he and the PR team try to portrait. It's just a marriage of conveniences with both side wanting to expand their brands. Now, if he wants to leave then so be it. Use the money to buy another players that could help the team.
Saw it. Evra is loyal to Pogba. He is a mate. Fact is Pogba has underperformed. A microcosm for much of his season was the way he failed to go with his man and let Murphy run past him for Cardiff's second goal. It was amateur hour. If my son did that in schoolboy sevens he would get a roasting. This is a multi-millionaire footballer.
If he is in a hump because Sanchez is getting paid more than him then really he needs to get a life or find another club.
I don't condone abusive behaviour in Old Trafford, if that was what it was that was directed at him, but there are few in the ground jumping to support Pogba when the Cardiff fans were singing "what a waste of money". There were many around where I was that would concur, that on the basis of this season, he is.
Now I can cope with underperforming, but what I cannot tolerate is his public courting of Real Madrid when we were fighting for top four. This is the dressing room talisman, FFS. There is a great player there, but quite frankly tired of waiting for that player to show up in a United shirt, when there are others who would love to show their talents at the Theatre of Dreams and play with the passion that we all want to see.
Wish we had 11 Evra's to bring into the team next season.
My take on the whole interview is that Evra is Loyal, something that is lost on some of the players we have. Maybe all of them!
Evra defending Pogba is expected because he is Loyal, so I'm not going to knock him on being loyal to his friend. I however disagree with him on some of the comments he made on Pogba particularly his relationship with his agent. Pogba dictates what happens in his career, he is not a child anymore. His agent will advise him on more money, that is normal, but Pogba makes the decision.
The most important thing in this scenario is that if Pogba stays, he needs to be committed. That means squashing all future claims about moves to other clubs. Just end it before it begins, that should start to send out the right message to the match going fans...assuming he wants to repair this relationship which I expect he would want to if he decides to stay.
Evra is right about the club/owners needing to back Ole. It's a long road back to the top with expected pitfalls along the way. We as fans need to accept that things will not be the way we want it for a long time. Getting the right people at the club is of more importance than getting the right players now because the foundations needs rebuilding more urgently than anything else.
It's depressing I know, but I will be more upbeat about it all if I can see steady progress over the next 18 months.
My take on the whole interview is that Evra is Loyal, something that is lost on some of the players we have. Maybe all of them!
Evra defending Pogba is expected because he is Loyal, so I'm not going to knock him on being loyal to his friend. I however disagree with him on some of the comments he made on Pogba particularly his relationship with his agent. Pogba dictates what happens in his career, he is not a child anymore. His agent will advise him on more money, that is normal, but Pogba makes the decision.
The most important thing in this scenario is that if Pogba stays, he needs to be committed. That means squashing all future claims about moves to other clubs. Just end it before it begins, that should start to send out the right message to the match going fans...assuming he wants to repair this relationship which I expect he would want to if he decides to stay.
Evra is right about the club/owners needing to back Ole. It's a long road back to the top with expected pitfalls along the way. We as fans need to accept that things will not be the way we want it for a long time. Getting the right people at the club is of more importance than getting the right players now because the foundations needs rebuilding more urgently than anything else.
It's depressing I know, but I will be more upbeat about it all if I can see steady progress over the next 18 months.
They play the same advanced midfield position of a 3
No we dont. We rely on him in the defensive phase as much as you can rely on somebody who is poor defensively.
Were probably arguing semantics but for me Pogba under Mourinho was much more of a CM (although again debateable). Pogba at the WC was prolly CM. But under Ole he's been an attacking midfielder. And truth be told, despite stints of looking capable as a CM before Ole, for me, he's not the engine of your team unless like France you have enough quality to make it work. He just doesn't win you the midfield battle based on his United career. He's a creative passer, someone who adds flair, but not somebody who is tactically intelligent enough or hard working enough or defensively capable enough to run the midfield engine .
Yeah. I mean I could compare Ronaldo's goalscoring stats with Gigg's but the truth is that their roles are different. Wide forward and left winger/midfielder are different roles. Similarly Pogba isn't scoring goals from the same midfield role as a Xavi, Schweinsteiger etc He's the attacking midfielder the engine of the team allows the freedom to bomb forward. He is expected to, in that role, to influence the attack. It is his job now rather than over and above it.
And a CB playing in midfield (PSG 1st leg)
Ok so that makes it ok then.
I've been saying for 5 years Smalling isn't good enough, more proof.
So you’re saying he is a CM...
you guys genuinely think Pogba and Sigurdsson occupy the same spaces? like regularly/consistently?
sometimes this place is twilight zone for me.this is Pogba:
this is Sigurdsson:
This is such a stupid graphic, if it was a heat map it might be worth something but its just a algorithm being used to built stats based on perceived formations.you guys genuinely think Pogba and Sigurdsson occupy the same spaces? like regularly/consistently?
this is Pogba:
this is Sigurdsson:
I know it's hard to believe in a FM stat based era but i use my eyes and Pogba is not a quintessential CM
WhoScored are pretty reliable for stats, etc. their positional graphic is extrapolated from average positional play. I do not know of a place where i can find individual heat maps that cover the season.
I don't even know what kind of matches people are watching that makes them think Pogba and Sigurdsson occupy the same positions. that's so ludicrous to me
Facts. People see what they want to see irrespective of the underlying truth, which is that I wouldn't assess any one player's performance/attitude/potential in this setup. Besides providing evidence of technical ability, this period of performance tells me hardly anything.
Lebron James (a top 3 player in the world as it stands currently) couldn't get the Lakers into the playoffs (8 spots). Why didn't he single handedly carry a team (in a sport where 1 or 2 players have more influence in a 5 man unit than any one player can have in an 11 man unit)? But he's still the Lakers' best player by far. But wait...it's because he has his own TV show now. Of course, the once great Lakers have been puttering around in irrelevance because they haven't drafted players who know what it means to play for the LA Lakers. Bullshit. It's the lack of quality players.
I find it ludicrous people are trying to make out Pogba, is a standard CM. I like Pogba, but I am not a fanboy of his and its just the same fan club members in every thread that make ridiculous defence's for him.WhoScored are pretty reliable for stats, etc. their positional graphic is extrapolated from average positional play. I do not know of a place where i can find individual heat maps that cover the season.
I don't even know what kind of matches people are watching that makes them think Pogba and Sigurdsson occupy the same positions. that's so ludicrous to me
Maybe because they don't occupy the same spaces... Sigurdsson likes to roam across the pitch to both sides, Pogba predominantly likes attacking from the left. That does not make one pigeonholed as CM and one a AM, its just the spaces on the pitch they prefer playing in
you're adding qualifiers and moving goal posts, you're even using straw man arguments/personal attacks, you're free to believe what you want, Sigurdsson and Pogba do not play the same position, and still Pogba is more productive despite being less advanced on the pitch. harsh realities you just gotta deal with
Because the club are not meeting the expectations made and set when he joined. He isnt right to "protest" via lack of application, but I think he knows change wont happen if he puts in POTY stats. Last time he put those stats Ole gave Young, Smalling and Jones new deals......
I wanna see this same energy for the board and the smoke and mirrors placed in front of the various managers that have been here, thats what I want to see.
I think we as fans have to know the pros and cons of every player we have at the club. His attitude to not getting what he feels he works hard for and deserves can be seen as petulant but I guarantee if Ronaldo was here in this period you would see exactly the same behaviour. Wrong yes, but guess what, many gifted players have had flaws and Pogba wont be the last.
It amazes me the very same man who advocated for playing " the United Way" and was prepared to go over the line for it, is now the most vilified player in Man Utd's recent history.
It amazes me we talk of Pogbas conduct and this is a man who conducts himself off the pitch in the cleanest of ways possible. On the pitch he gets no mention when he is out there busting a gut, but crucified when he fails at his job defensively.
Where is this energy when Matic lost his man about 8 times in the first 12 games of the season?
On the money.
Teams simply figured out how to nuillfy Utd given the imbalance int he quality of the team on the pitch . Teams around that time gave the most space to the right side knowing stopping Pogba was the key. We never found an answer to the problem.
I think you need to get a grip and stop creating your own reality and expecting people to accept your baseless opinion that is clearly outside anything written within the interview.Get a grip.
How on earth is that hate? Why is it hating to point out the fecking obvious.
Pogba along with most of the squad dislike Sanchez, dislike his contribution and dislike the amount of money he's making. As they should do. So obviously Evra has obliged Pogba by naming and shaming. Which is ultimately good because the more negative press Sanchez gets from fans, pundits and players the sooner we're likely to be rid of him.
Agree totally.
You stop Pogba playing, and make Martial have to pick the ball up on the half way line, plus not let Rashford have half a pitch to sprint into, and we're utterly bereft of attacking option.
Nothing on the right at all, two midfielders alongside Pogba who aren't play makers, and two strikers who don't like receiving the ball with their back to goal.
Proof? A screenshot out of context of what has gone before, and a huge error from McTominay?!
Talk about people seeing what they want to see.
Exactly. Thats what pissed me off about the PSG match, because Tuchel showed a blueprint to everyone else in the first leg on how to stop Utd and PSG threw away the second leg by trying to be too clever tactically at the end.
However everyone copied the method for the games after and suddenly things became 10x worse. Pogba is seen by the rest of the team as the ball carrier, final pass maker and goal scoring midfielder, and it probably sickened him how dire our front 5 and full back options really are:
Lukaku: No first touch, cannot bring others into play and useless against teams set up deep defensively.
Rashford: No presence in the box aerially, cannot play back to goal and spacial awareness in the box is questionable, along with his one on one finishing.
Lingard: Limited skill set and vision, runs a lot defensively but offers very little creatively.
Sanchez: A FLOP.
Martial: Useless when playing against a high back line or when swamped with players who prevent him from cutting in on his right foot. Offers no passing lanes other than when hes in the box. with others.
Young: Finished as a PL footballer and was never consistently at the reuqired level for a title challenging team.
Valencia: Finished.
Dalot: Great cross but lots to learn defensively and hardly had a run of games at RB.
Shaw: Good engine and only decent option in this list, however again plays on the left side which is easy Utd;s biggest strength. Doesnt overlap enough or provide enough quality going forward compared to other LB in world football.
What part of Pogba and most of the squad wanting Sanchez called out in the press, and Evra who is in constant contact with Pogba and several others in the squad going out of his way to throw Sanchez under the bus during his interview, is so difficult to believe or understand?I think you need to get a grip and stop creating your own reality and expecting people to accept your baseless opinion that is clearly outside anything written within the interview.
It's obvious and innocuous. Certainly not a criticism of Pogba or Evra.
He missed three pens also but yes he was (dont think people believe he is techniclaly our best finisher though) anyway that is a plus for Pogba but a huge negative for the team as it shows how shit the rest have been. He is clearly our best creative player, would have a lot more assist had our donkeys not missed so many clear chances.
So what about when he called out Lingard, Rashford etc. in terms of their output for the season? Was that to further a similar agenda? Is Pogba planning to call out Matic for his performances also? There is nothing factual in your argument aside from putting 2 and 2 together to make 5 so it suits your argument/agenda.
I do hope you are not a lawyer with this mode of thinking because Evra made his comments, like many other in the past. Does this mean Pogba is responsible for all the good things Evra has said lately also?
Your reasoning here is laughable.