K Stand Knut
Full Member
Yep. 100%.Ahead of Young/Smalling/Jones/Rojo/Darmian/Matic/Lingard/Mata?
Many, many more issues above and beyond his running stats etc. Just a huge toxic player at the club.
Close the door on your way out
Yep. 100%.Ahead of Young/Smalling/Jones/Rojo/Darmian/Matic/Lingard/Mata?
It has been a discussion around Messi for a long time, he probably covers the least distance of any player in Europe but he offers so much at the other end he gets a pass. Barca probably don't want him to risk injuring himself either.Messi never looks like he's trying very hard. Lazy cnut.
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Lukaku is flourishing for Belgium (record goalscorer at 24) playing a progressive brand of fluid and high intensity football. United players do not work hard as a collective, we're third from bottom for distance covered in the league. I don't think Lukaku is incapable of playing in the system Ole is trying to implement. When Lukaku came back from injury during Solskjaer's honeymoon period he went on goal scoring streak with the threat and the pressure of Rashford taking his spot looming over him. He needs to get off the weights and he along with the rest of his teammates need to work hard on their conditioning.Martial and Lukaku are in the bottom 5 in the Premier League for distance covered per game, out of all players. It's one of the problems with our team. Ole is getting rid of Lukaku so we can play a high intensity high pressing game more in sync with the modern game. I don't think it's racist to say they don't work hard enough, if we want to play like City or Liverpool anyway. Perhaps Lukaku's build precludes him from such a style but I don't see why we can't get more out of Martial.
Messi is known to be relaxed and lazy for most the game, just walking about. But no one complains about it because he's GOAT.Messi never looks like he's trying very hard. Lazy cnut.
You have a point about the style that Mourinho implemented being low energy but I don't think Rom can play a high intensity game on a regular basis. It doesn't look like he'll be here next year anyway.Lukaku is flourishing for Belgium (record goalscorer at 24) playing a progressive brand of fluid and high intensity football. United players do not work hard as a collective, we're third from bottom for distance covered in the league. I don't think Lukaku is incapable of playing in the system Ole is trying to implement. When Lukaku came back from injury during Solskjaer's honeymoon period he went on goal scoring streak with the threat and the pressure of Rashford taking his spot looming over him. He needs to get off the weights and he along with the rest of his teammates need to work hard on their conditioning.
Fixed that for you (just kidding)Messi is known to be relaxed and lazy for most the game, just walking about. But no one complains about it because he's white.
Fixed that for you (just kidding)
It doesn't appear that way indeed, but we haven't seen any strong rumors linking him to any specific club. I considered the part in bold, but you have to remember Lukaku's best PL return of 25 came under Roberto Martinez in 2016/17 playing high energy football from front to back with a focus on possession, ball retention and quick transitions in attack.You have a point about the style that Mourinho implemented being low energy but I don't think Rom can play a high intensity game on a regular basis. It doesn't look like he'll be here next year anyway.
He actually covered less ground per 90 for Everton in that season than he did for us this season, although he played a lot more minutes. He was the best striker that Everton have had in a long time but the fans still used to moan about his work rate and technical level.It doesn't appear that way indeed, but we haven't seen any strong rumors linking him to any specific club. I considered the part in bold, but you have to remember Lukaku's best PL return of 25 came under Roberto Martinez in 2016/17 playing high energy football from front to back with a focus on possession, ball retention and quick transitions in attack.
Some people just don't like nice things. Those Everton fans were hardly in a position to be so snobby when he did what no other striker did for them in the PL era. Scoring more goals than heroes like Ferguson, Cahill and Kevin CampbellHe actually covered less ground per 90 for Everton in that season than he did for us this season, although he play a lot more minutes. He was the best striker that Everton have had in a long time but the fans still used to moan about his work rate and technical level.
True enough, very similar numbers.Can't be arsed checking but I'd say Matic has finished a similar % of games he starts to Pogba.
They still like him and would have him back I’m sure but football fans always get hypercritical when things go just a little bit wrong. Even Ronaldo got the hanky treatment at Madrid.Some people just don't like nice things. Those Everton fans were hardly in a position to be so snobby when he did what no other striker did for them in the PL era. Scoring more goals than heroes like Ferguson, Cahill and Kevin Campbell
Well, I don't think he's any of the above, really - but I take your overall point.If he's a playmaker/scorer a la Michael Laudrup or a box - to - box midfielder a la Partrick Vieira or a Makelele
TrueThey still like him and would have him back I’m sure but football fans always get hypercritical when things go just a little bit wrong. Even Ronaldo got the hanky treatment at Madrid.
Would be great if you can look per match. I guess he 'tries' harder in some games than others.The OP stats are misleading. I got the details as following for per 90 minutes
I get Bernardo Silva’s at 11.95km average per 90. Eriksen’s at 11.83km per 90 and Pogba’s at 10.42km per 90.
@In Rainbows
I had a brief look at the minutes thing.
Eriksen has actually played slightly more minutes this season across all comps, 4036 to 4012 and B Silva has played 3935.
Compared to the rest of our team
Herrera covered 11.7km per 90. Matic 11.5km. Fred 11.74. Mctominay 11.76.
There was the question of his build affecting him in comparison to smaller players but similar built players stats are:
Dacoure at Watford, another player of similar build, he covers 11.61km per game and has more minutes in the PL although less overall. Even compared to Eric Dier who is 6ft 2in and what I would consider as cumbersome he comes up short against 11.41km
Those players have played less minutes than him but last season Matic played more minutes than Pogba this season: 3119 and more overall 4156 but still covered 11.74km per game in the PL on average. I’m not sure there’s much drop of with more minutes overall.
Not exhaustive of course but I suspect that minutes played doesn’t affect distance covered profoundly and that Pogba is at the lower end of distance covered per 90 for a midfielder.
I'm not sure if lazy is the word either, but he didn't track runners and switched off defensively in a midfield 2. Then when it was switched to a midfield 3 to accomodate him he was still doing the same thing and the other midfielders had to cover for him.Not sure he's lazy. I think it's more that he just hates defending and has been indulged enough that he feels he can get away with not really doing it.
In a perfect world you get through to him and he becomes the perfect rounded midfielder who defends well. In the real world that seems somewhat unlikely. So your realistic options are either sell him or get 2 solid CMs and play him solely as a number 10. I'd go with the latter. Attacking is where his talent lies and it's what seems to come most naturally to him. He's a number 10 in a CM's body. Why fight it?
I don't think he's lazy at all. he's just very poor positionally. I think people still don't get the fact that just because we paid a huge amount for him, it doesn't mean he was worth it.I'm not sure if lazy is the word either, but he didn't track runners and switched off defensively in a midfield 2. Then when it was switched to a midfield 3 to accomodate him he was still doing the same thing and the other midfielders had to cover for him.
Maybe defensively lazy instead of outright lazy?
Pogba just thinks he is better than what he actually is. He thinks he's Pirlo, but with nowhere near the ability.Think it's more the intensity in which he works at that people don't like, but he's always had that languid style to him, even in the youth team.
I see him a bit like Steven Gerrard in his younger day. Capable of having a peak performance at a lot of things on a pitch on any given day but not really regular or with a clear definite role.I think first of all, we need to decide what he is. If he's a playmaker/scorer a la Michael Laudrup or a box - to - box midfielder a la Partrick Vieira or a Makelele
Because I think some of us are expecting him to be some superhuman hybrid and that is not possible. Once we know what type of midfielder he is or wants to be, we can fairly judge him because right now we are judging him based on what we think he should play like.
This is a poor metric. It doesn’t take into account substitutions, it’s a per game metric.Sorry, your stats are wrong.
The actual figures are:
Matic: 11.16 km
Pogba: 9.96 km
Herrera: 8.30 km
Fred: 7.99 km
Lingard: 7.99 km
Mata: 7.77 km
McTominay: 7.03 km
Pereira: 5.27 km
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It’s convenient to paint things in black and white. In reality, determining the problems behind us performing poorly are much more complicated.TBH it obvious that Pogba is by far our best player. He does run. The problem with our team is there is no structure. All the elite coaches now use it. I'm talking about 'coaching' here and not just managing.
Pep, Klopp, Poch, Sarri, Bielsa, Tuchel etc
All their players know what zones to be in and where to receive the ball etc.
We expect players to improvise so it's a lot easier for them to look poor when there is no system to fall back on.
Pirlo could pass a ball but had nowhere near the same skillset as Pogba.Pogba just thinks he is better than what he actually is. He thinks he's Pirlo, but with nowhere near the ability.
I think we're just asking for a bit of this from all our players:If we accept that he has great talent then we might also have to accept that he has no real passion for the club. Players who do, don’t have what is probably a 70% not bothered attitude.
God love him...remember that well. Love Beckhams attitude there too.I think we're just asking for a bit of this from all our players:
Beckham was actually at fault. If he'd have got back after his cross was cleared, Solskjær wouldn't have had to run the full length of the pitch to foul someone.God love him...remember that well. Love Beckhams attitude there too.