Remember for starters, this is not a court of law at this stage. And even if it goes to a law court, admissibility of the emails is a very grey area and it would also depend on exactly which jurisdiction is trying the case, what the law is in the country where the emails themselves were actually stored etc.
Manchester City risk of getting CL banned
- Thread starter meamth
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
It could have something to do with English clubs fans running rampage throughout the 70s and 80s. They were the scourge of continental football. People have long memories. I agree with you though that UEFA aren’t as biased towards other countries as some make out.
Might wanna get medication or see a doctor if something so small would make you piss yourself. Especially if you're getting so worked up about a club whose not a rival.
If UEFA kick City out of the CL who's going to pay all the fines that keep them on the gravy train?
They will never actually get banned. Although they deserve too.
Could be good if City gets banned. Now they can concentrate on what's truly important to the club. Like League Cups and Fa Cup clashes against Championship sides.
How people who watch(fans) and follow football( media) week and after week still don't understand rules? Winning EL doesn't mean that nation gets extra CL spot. It is just extra spot if winning club didn't secure CL through league.
So no matter what happens with City, we can't get CL spot for next year.
So no matter what happens with City, we can't get CL spot for next year.
The only way we would get in if City were banned is if we were invited by UEFA to take City's place. Chances are however that they would invite someone from one of the lower ranked leagues to fill the spot.
Actually that's not true, there are rumblings that you have grossly contravened the regulations laid out in E.4.2. in the Clubs Finance and Governance section of the Premier League Handbook
Uefa have many many flaws but competition rules are not one of them. They have B,C, D option for everything. They don't need to invite anybody. If Arsenal win EL that means that one nation will be depromoted. Club from that nation will lose spot in CL group stage and will go in qualifiers instead( France i think).
Liverpool definitely have their fingers in this. I knew if they lost the league this year they'd create havoc. J W Henry was very outspoken when they signed the Etihad deal, wanted to know how much the 2nd highest bidder offeredThe Glaziers and Liverpool owners have worked together to start these investigations for mutual gains.
Don't think the Glazers are bothered about City as long as they are still making money.Are UEFA looking at the Etihad deal? It seems strange that an airline that hadn't made a profit since it's inception & was running at a loss in the Billions, would commit to pay a football team nobody outside England had heard of, over half a Billion in sponsorship money.
I don't understand how citeh can bring UEFA to the courts over this if they were to get a CL ban.
Isn't it UEFAs competition so they set the rules and enforce them?
Isn't it UEFAs competition so they set the rules and enforce them?
It this really a worry for them or is this just like the other 101 accusations we've heard against them and PSG that will result in either nothing happening or a small fine of some easily affordable amount of cash?
yeah but UEFA can't have set rules that break EU Laws
Would never happen. They don't have the balls to do it. But if there's a 1% percent chance....Suddenly I'm very invested in the EL final
Which EU laws would they be breaking? I'm clueless on all this btw
So am I, I *think* I've read City would be arguing along the lines of anti competitiveness, but City appear to think they've done nothing wrong *I doubt this* but I'm not sure they'll have done so much wrong that gets them a 1 year ban. It'll be the same as companies in the UK trying to get round tax laws, City will interpret the rule one way whilst UEFA will interpret the rule another way, then it'll come to some sort of agreement and be swept under the carpet.
City's latest statement referred to seeking redress by an "independent judicial body," which you'd assume to be CAS. This is where previous disputes have been taken, and largely won, by other clubs on UEFA FFP. It is UEFA's competition and UEFA's rules, but an appeal to CAS would be focused on whether UEFA has properly and fairly implemented those rules. E.g. UEFA could ban City for financial irregularities that breach their rules, but City say the "accusation of financial irregularities remains entirely false."
I think City would only take this nuclear option to effectively try to kill FFP if the appeal to CAS on UEFA's implementation of FFP is unsuccessful.
I get Pep wanting to protect his achievements with them but in order to be "innocent" wouldn't they need a bigger revenue than any other club in the world? They still can't even sell out their own stadium. United couldn't justify their spend and have a much bigger revenue stream, so it's literally impossible for them to be innocent under the current rules.
Saying "we're innocent" is a bit like saying "i didn't do it" when you get accused of stealing a car, despite still being sat in said car, with a plan of how you were going to steal it still on your lap, whilst wearing a t-shirt with a photo of you stealing the car on it.
Saying "we're innocent" is a bit like saying "i didn't do it" when you get accused of stealing a car, despite still being sat in said car, with a plan of how you were going to steal it still on your lap, whilst wearing a t-shirt with a photo of you stealing the car on it.
UEFA will be under huge pressure from all the top clubs to do something about City, clubs not concerned with PSG given their playing in not one of the so called top leagues.
Whats to stop the top clubs creating a new CL and not allowing City to enter
Whats to stop the top clubs creating a new CL and not allowing City to enter
I think the telling part of his quotes today is that Pep is saying they are “innocent until proven guilty”. That’s not the same thing as saying they are innocent is it? You wouldn’t be introducing the hint of doubt if you truly believe you haven’t done anything.
Yeah, lord knows they'll be operating from an impartial and unbiased platform that benefits football, not their own interests. Just what we need to restore football to the utopia it was before
The current UEFA investigation relates to FFP issues that were originally adjudicated 5 years ago, when City failed FFP on the basis that our revenue was insufficient to cover spending in the first FFP monitoring period (this period largely included our very rapid transformation under ADUG, when transfer and wage spending increased exponentially). We were already punished for failing FFP, but the new investigation appears to focus on whether, in our unsuccessful attempts to pass FFP, we misled UEFA on the origin of some of our commercial revenue, particularly the Etihad sponsorship. One of the emails leaked by Der Spiegel specifically relates to whether Etihad's sponsorship was fully paid by Etihad, or by other related Abu Dhabi entities (in an attempt by City to inflate the value of the Etihad sponsorship). City's audited financial statements state that Etihad's sponsorship was received from Etihad, and Etihad themselves have publicly stated this too. How UEFA would be able to prove otherwise is anyone's guess really, as it would presumably require UEFA to audit Etihad, which it lacks the jurisdiction to do.
To answer your question, no we currently don't need bigger revenue to meet FFP. We have met FFP relatively comfortably for the past 5 years. You can argue that this situation may still be being artificially helped by inflated UAE-based commercial revenue, but the total revenue itself is sufficient for FFP. United's spending is completely unconstrained by FFP, given the scale of your revenue. The only thing constraining your spending is the Glazers.
All of this is very nice but it doesn't change the fact that the numbers just don't add up without there being some artificial meddling involved. I don't think UEFA have to audit anyone to prove it as it's not a court of law. They just need to be satisfied that they were misled or that your finances as reported to them aren't accurate. THe fact is they would have done feck all even if they were aware of it, were it not for it being leaked publicly.
If you go to the Court of Arbitration (or whatever it's called) you might get a different outcome but I wouldn't know enough to say either way. It basically just comes down to whether UEFA have the balls to ban you in the first instance...and whether it opens a can of worms with other teams who appear to be getting let off for similar offences. You can bet more leaks will conveniently start appearing.
If I were Pep I just wouldn't comment on it one way or the other and that way can keep my hands clean whatever the outcome.
I kind of want them to punish you. My guess is it wouldn't stick as you'd threaten to take it to the courts, but it'd be enough for the Liverpool media (and cult element of their fanbase) to cry about how unfair it all is, which I would find funny.
Other than that it's a bit of a nothing. No one is under the illusion that City would be where they were if it wasn't for spending loads of money. I don't care that much about whether it's fair or not. It's not fair being Huddersfield and having no chance of ever being a big club due to being based in Huddersfield, but so what. Football is never going to be an even playing field in that sense.
Your first two paragraphs are basically the crux of the issue. City have released two statements this week that clearly lay out the official position: 1) City's accounts are "full and complete and a matter of legal and regulatory record"; 2) the "accusation of financial irregularities remains entirely false." UEFA's position, as leaked into the media this week, seems to be that our accounts say one thing, but they think the reality is different, and hence they've been misled. This is all speculation because nothing official has been released by UEFA, but it is going to be genuinely interesting to see how they will go about proving that they have been misled. To do so, logically, would require evidence that City's accounts (and by extension, Etihad's) are not accurate. That would be an absolute legal minefield, and as you say, it's unclear whether UEFA will be willing to do that.
Again, based on City's latest statement, City appear to assume that UEFA CFCB AC will determine that City are indeed guilty. If that happens, City have already signaled that they will appeal to CAS in the reference to "an independent judicial body." CAS will have to adjudicate whether UEFA has implemented its own rules and procedures properly. Note that CAS has already ruled against UEFA in prior FFP cases related to PSG and AC Milan where UEFA didn't follow its own procedures. It's worth noting that UEFA seems to have rushed this latest review to meet the 5-year statutory limit on offences (the CFCB IC ruling yesterday, was the 5-year anniversary of City's original punishment, so the last possible day for them to try to re-adjudicate the original decision). It wouldn't surprise me if they've messed up procedures again to try to meet that deadline.
I think Guardiola's comments were fine. The current issue relates to a time period before he joined the club so I think his only options are to just say "no comment" or "innocent until proven guilty" which is what he did do. The media will continue to ask him leading questions on it, but he's obviously not the right person to ask.
By the way, I don't doubt for a moment that City inflated the UAE-related sponsorships to try to meet FFP back in 2014. We really don't need to do this anymore, given all the various increases in TV, prize money, and non-UAE sponsorships since then. If I were City, I'd probably can the Etihad sponsorship at this point, it's more trouble than it's worth, and we could easily find a different non-UAE shirt sponsor.
Some welcome honesty on this issue.
Oh yeah, totally agree.
It would never happen though, was just hypothetically thinking if they did, would we want to gain another 2 titles while Liverpool gain 2?
The point they were trying to make was that the PL would have to act if UEFA do something drastic.
It's funny, I read about Sterling buying 500+ tickets for kids for the FA Cup semi final.
On first glance that's an amazing act of generosity.
On a second glance, it looks to be along the lines of other stuff City are accused of doing - buying up tickets themselves to inflate figures, that then inflate their earnings, that allows them to spend more. Not so lovely then!
On first glance that's an amazing act of generosity.
On a second glance, it looks to be along the lines of other stuff City are accused of doing - buying up tickets themselves to inflate figures, that then inflate their earnings, that allows them to spend more. Not so lovely then!
I feel you're reaching a bit there.
Can I have the source for this please?
Look forward to UEFA or the PL challenging City's auditors.
Your buddies on Blue Moon seem to like posting about us.
21,000 posts, this season alone
I read somewhere that City's CL ban could open the door for our CL qualification next season. How valid is this please? This is such a long thread for me to identify what has been discussed about this matter. Thanks.
All depends if they assign an additional spot to England which may not happen. Arsenal could also get it mind you.
Thanks
Sky Sports reckon if Citeh get banned and Arsenal win the Europa League then we get a Champions League spot.
I think that's pretty wrong though.
Is it? England should still have 4 spots and Arsenal in 5th would qualify through Europa.
Can’t imagine it happening in time though.
This 100% happens, payments to parents, education...kids at the ages of 7/8 years old. At that level Manchester City are a disgrace