Remember Martial wanting to play as #9 when he joined us.
Anthony Martial as Number 9
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
He’s a clinical finisher but I don’t think he can lead the line on his own. I think he’d work well in a 442, but I’d be skeptical about him up front alone. I’m happy to be proven wrong though.
Preferred for a reason, not out of some sort of weird bias.. If he was the better choice he'd be playing. The fact that he's not speaks volumes.
But who knows what this season will bring.
His hold up play is good and his finishing is brilliant. Makes a lot of sense to give him a run in that spot.
No matter what position he plays the core problem with his game is the lack of intensity, mainly in poor movement off the ball, always wanting the ball to feet in a static position. Until he changes that I don't think it matters what position he plays.
Yeah that’s bollocks. There’s nothing calculated or economical about Martial’s movement.
Sorry but
. I'm sure you yourself don't believe this.I wonder if any of Top 4 in the League would want him as number 9? I mean, 48 goals and 22 assists as 22 y.o. surely good enough.
To be fair when he has been played in a 2 upfront he’s looked pretty decent his movement is a lot better there in that he makes a lot of nice little runs but as per our team are crap at spotting a run. Honestly would prefer to see him up there than Rashford or Lingard.
For me, Martial has better hold up and link up play than Rashford. He doesn't sprint around like headless chicken, but his movement in and around the box is excellent. I won't even start on the difference in finishing ability.
I'm actually not really sure what area of Rashford's game suits being a striker. His style is the style of a winger.
If he excelled at the Mata role then I would be elated. He might have to run more than 5km a game though and also be very competent at the role. Otherwise he will be gone.
If he could improve his dribbling, Rashford could be a player rotating for the right wing, he has a decent cross on him and is a tireless runner. The problem is he insists on becoming a striker but has displayed none of the qualities to succeed there so far.
.....He's also been terrible on the right wing the few times he was tried there, same for Martial.
feck it, if he’s not being moved on might as well try it. Can’t hurt.
Going to try that at work. Sorry boss, I am just working in a more calculated, economical way.Sorry but
When's the last time we've seen Martial get behind the defence like this?
Rashford has the ability to play like a forward like David Villa did for Barcelona.
That was only possible because they had Messi playing as a false nine usually dropping deep to create spaces for Villa or Pedro to finish of chances.
The only way Martial. Rashford & Greenwood ever play together is if we try create something similar.
Have inverted forwards that make runs from out wide cutting in to fi ish on their strong foot. Have a CF that drops in deep to drag the defence out of position before finding the right spaces to play the ball or take on the defence directly.
Rashford--Martial - Greenwood
Has the perfect balance with the creativity coming from the centre (including Pogba & other midfielders) whilst the wider attackers make runs in to the centre.
Rashford to me has all the ability to be a Mane whilst Greenwood can be a Salah.
Martial can be the Firminho or atleast rotate between this role and the LF role depending if we get a new false 9/CAM like Felix or even Sancho who I can see growing to that role with the ability to take the ball out wide as other players cut in.
Lukaku as had a reasonable run at CF, so has Rashford, both have been found wanting in certain aspects. Martial has played at CF on a few occasions, but as I recall has not been given a 'run' at it. So perhaps if that is the role he wants, that he believes he is best at, then he must be given a chance of a run of games in the role to prove it.
The big question mark is how the team plays to, or with an 'out and out' CF. None of the three contenders can be consider to be a 'fox in the box' type CF, Lukaku and Rashford are not that good at holding up play and both look better when they arrive at the CF spot coming in off the wing. Martial can turn either way and could therefore fulfil a role of holding up the play centrally or bringing in late runs from someone steaming in from mid-field. However his best striker performances have been mainly due to his runs into the box from the left side, but this ploy is now recognised by opponents and increasingly his runs are being blocked, by one, or two or sometimes three defenders in a row.
Assuming all three stay, then Ole has to find a way to get all three playing together, or two out of the three, otherwise we shall still have difficulty carrying a real goal threat, and most teams will not have to break sweat to defend against us, especially as our approach play has steadily become as predictable as the sunrise. Martial could be the key to a new style of both approach play and final cutting edge, and it might just get him out of his moody demeanour
The big question mark is how the team plays to, or with an 'out and out' CF. None of the three contenders can be consider to be a 'fox in the box' type CF, Lukaku and Rashford are not that good at holding up play and both look better when they arrive at the CF spot coming in off the wing. Martial can turn either way and could therefore fulfil a role of holding up the play centrally or bringing in late runs from someone steaming in from mid-field. However his best striker performances have been mainly due to his runs into the box from the left side, but this ploy is now recognised by opponents and increasingly his runs are being blocked, by one, or two or sometimes three defenders in a row.
Assuming all three stay, then Ole has to find a way to get all three playing together, or two out of the three, otherwise we shall still have difficulty carrying a real goal threat, and most teams will not have to break sweat to defend against us, especially as our approach play has steadily become as predictable as the sunrise. Martial could be the key to a new style of both approach play and final cutting edge, and it might just get him out of his moody demeanour
He can be any number he likes but if he won't work hard and make runs, he'd still be crap I'm afraid. You can have all the talent in the world but if you don't apply yourself properly then it's wasted. Personally I think his best position is a a left forward, not a centre forward. But wherever he's played, I just want to see him buck up his application and quit sulking around!
How the feck is this being discussed He's performed fecking shite and a long away from a run up top. This is Manchester United not a merry go round for unearned strikers to have a go up top.
If we're ridding Lukaku I'd rather replace with established quality up top. Having a core of young talent is fine, and we have potentially with James and Rashford. The final cog would need to be someone who scores goals for fun in the league they're coming from and puts his all on the pitch.
He's performed fecking shite and a long away from a run up top. This is Manchester United not a merry go round for unearned strikers to have a go up top. If we're ridding Lukaku I'd rather replace with established quality up top. Having a core of young talent is fine, and we have potentially with James and Rashford. The final cog would need to be someone who scores goals for fun in the league they're coming from and puts his all on the pitch.
James who?How the feck is this being discussed
If we're ridding Lukaku I'd rather replace with established quality up top. Having a core of young talent is fine, and we have potentially with James and Rashford. The final cog would need to be someone who scores goals for fun in the league they're coming from and puts his all on the pitch.
He probably refers to Daniel James.
Number 2 (poo) most of the time, unfortunately.
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I'm a big fan of Martial and it's a shame to see him stagnate. It's not all his fault as he has been mismanaged since LVG was here.
He deserves at least a chance to be the #9. I rate his potential higher than Rashford. He's never been comfortable out wide anyway. A Rashford & Martial partnership makes too much sense. They both make up for each-others weaknesses.
I haven't got a clue why they haven't been played together already.
He deserves at least a chance to be the #9. I rate his potential higher than Rashford. He's never been comfortable out wide anyway. A Rashford & Martial partnership makes too much sense. They both make up for each-others weaknesses.
I haven't got a clue why they haven't been played together already.
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One things 100% sure. No other mug club are going to stump up the transfer fee or 250k wages so he will be here for a good few years. So we need to try and find a way of getting the best out of him. With Rashford and Lukaku misfiring its an opportunity to give him a run. Otherwise we will end up with a very expensive bench warmer.
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We could have said the same thing about Rashford when he was dribbling the ball out of play on the wing. Why is Rashford allowed a chance up-front but Martial is not?How the feck is this being discussed
If we're ridding Lukaku I'd rather replace with established quality up top. Having a core of young talent is fine, and we have potentially with James and Rashford. The final cog would need to be someone who scores goals for fun in the league they're coming from and puts his all on the pitch.
Oh I forgot, ones a 'local lad' and the other a 'moody Frenchman' .
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I think Martial could do well with the good support striker like Pedro from Fluminense
Worse is some of these guys want to give Lukaku more chances when he doesn't blend on to a single player at the club in the way they play.
If we're trying to build a fluid attack, the one attacker we have who is the most comfortable with the ball at his feet, can go either way, can bring others into play and is the best finisher is the one who is actually never played up-front.
The mind boggles.
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I was against Rashford being put up top - he's better in space out on the wing and leveraging his pace than he is with his back to goal. The runs in behind aren't worth it because he's ultimately just a kick and rush footballer. And I do agree that he's given preferential treatment.We could have said the same thing about Rashford when he was dribbling the ball out of play on the wing. Why is Rashford allowed a chance up-front but Martial is not?
It's being discussed because our attack currently is shite.Oh I forgot, ones a 'local lad' and the other a 'moody Frenchman' .
But that doesn't mean we should give Martial a punt because Rashford had a go. This isn't school football, or a "lets just throw young flashy players up top and see how it goes" sort of approach. It's time to right some wrongs and actually put an established forward up top for Manchester United.
Sorry but
Why not? His style is very smooth and yes very calculated- I don't see the other players making give and go and do a run in behind for eg. Just because he doesn't do blind running for the sake it is not meaning he refuses to make runs. Fans just wants to see headless chickens because "pashun" or some other crap.
I agree with your opinion on Rashford. It's tricky as he even struggled out on the wing too as his dribbling wasn't good enough.
I'm not just saying to throw anyone up there. As i stated above, if we are looking to build a fluid attack (which it seems we want to do), I believe Martial is the best striker we have. He's technically superior to Rashford & Lukaku.
If we have the means to bring in a top-class experienced striker then fair enough. But until then, Martial deserves a chance surely?
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That's a horrible way of sorting out football.
Just buying the next footballer who scores goals and hope they just blend in with the likes of Rashford, Martial & Greenwood. Sounds like you would buy Lukaku again just because he scored 20 goals for Everton - when in reality the guy doesn't blend in with the other footballers.
Rashford is also not a kick & rush footballer - he is a footballer that plays better when the team has the tempo to play with the ball at their feet. The same with Martial and I'm sure Greenwood too. Rashford has been struggling because the fans godly manager turned him in to a winger that spends half his time crossing for Lukaku and the next wondering if be should shoot or not. The same thing with Martial - all the whilst whilst no one has bought a RW for 4-5 years to help the other side
Rashford now struggles playing as the focal point of an attack in a team that play counter attacking football where the opposition has more time with the ball at their feet than ours.The fact is - whether you like it or not :
Rashford - Martial - Greenwood/Lukaku
Is more balanced than
Martial - Rashford - Greenwood/Lukaku.
One player is good as short passes and holding up the ball whilst falling in deep to bring the defenders out of position whilst the others have the ability to dribble in to space with pace and unleash a powerful shot with their stronger feet.
That is all without buying a single player. If one player was to leave here then it should be Lukaku and replace the lad with someone like Pepe or the Nigerian lad for villa Real - left footed attackers whilst trying to get a false 9 to compete with Martial so the lad himself has to step his game up to play either as a False 9 or as a LF in place of Rashford.
Such easy tactics. So easy.
Why would we play Lukaku centrally when we don't have a single traditional winger
what does Rashford do as the focal point of our attack 
where is Greenwood able to fit Very easy - play martial in the middle and make him get the ball to the others around him. If we need a better wider forward then we have players like Lukaku, Mata and even Lingard to sell.
He doesn't run at all whatever calculated or not. He's just standing there waiting for the ball to reach his feet and otherwise he's like a statue. That's why people think he's uninterested or invisible in certain games. It's not that he's uninterested, he's just a passenger whenever he doesn't have a ball.
Technique won't take you far enough unless you're actually willing to run your socks off for the team. Sadly our team is filled with these kind of players and people throw these laughable excuses for them while I watch the rivals and see their players don't stop running, moving and pressing all the time then look at the statues we play with and know why we're 6th, because we don't the basics of the basics of football.
I honestly don't give a flying feck about his finishing or shooting in YouTube videos. I want to see my players pressing the hell out of the opposition and moving all the team inbetween and behind the defense. Unless we start having a team live that we'll keep being crap on the pitch while bringing the stats about "the most clinical finisher in the league" or "the best chance creator" and wonder why we're as shite. These are for Youtube videos and stats tweets.
What you're describing is a preference. There's more than one way to play football. That's the whole point of playing Martial as false 9. So you can work around his strengths and weaknesses. That's what you're supposed to do.
Martial is our best striker, my eyes see it and the stats support it too.
Since when are all strikers supposed to run around like headless chickens? He's a striker. His strengths are an excellent technique, excellent dribbling, underrated link-up play and clinical finishing. His weaknesses are off-the ball movement and pressing. I'm sure that can be coached into him a bit more if you have the right coaches around but even that is not necessary attributes in a striker.
I don't see what the problem is.
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Playing football has nothing to do with running, moving and pressing. This is the basics of the basics when it comes to football and all other teams have forwards who continuously do it. Gone are the days when strikers can be only poachers or goal scorers. Now all managers want their strikers to be continuously moving inbetween and behind defenders, linking up with their teammates and putting pressure on defense. The bold part is laughable.
If you're not moving much you'll never bother the defenders and will be an easy target for them to stop which is ironically what happens to both Martial and Lukaku,
But Martial isn't just a poacher or goal-scorer at all. He does move in between the defenders and he does easily link up with team-mates as his first touch is actually stable for one. For a striker his creativity is underrated, he provides for the other attackers plenty. The only thing he doesn't do is constantly put pressure on the defense but that is not necessary if he is played as false 9. To lump him in with Lukaku is laughable and it makes no sense.
I value technical skill over running any day.
His movement is just shit. Nothing to do with people wanting him to be a headless chicken.
So he became the most clinical striker in PL and scored 5 goals in 7 match vs Top 6 without running? Wow that's really incredible.
It's even more confusing to see him be compared against others players as if we haven't been lower energy team from defence to midfield to attack regardless of who is playing . City and Liverpool isn't even top of running charts. We're 6th not because we lack running- we lack clever technical players that uses their brain. God forbid we could possibly ask for one of the few that has demonstrated it to play at number 9.
He's doesn't move at all which is the reason some think he's uninterested, doesn't care or invisible etc. As I said it's not all these it's because off the ball he simply a passenger. His style is to receive the ball, dribble past defender and put the ball in the far corner. Otherwise he's a statue down there.
He'll never make it here or anyone else with this style of play and technique won't take him far without doing the basics which is continuous moving and running. Continuously describing the running people want from him as "headless chicken" is laughable.
Stop with this "most clinical" thing. This stat is probably done by dividing his goals by the chances he got. If the chances he got aren't much then of course he'll be the most clinical, and it'll cover the fact he doesn't get many chances because of his awful off ball movements which, if you're as interested in stats, it showed in several stats with him one of the bottom 5 laziest forwards in the league alongside Lukaku.