Seriously becasue I'm confused, we just seem to be in a revolving door of blame, manager comes in does crap, he gets blamed, but players are seemingly under-performing, so they get blamed, owners taking money out of the club, and allowing kamikaze Ed to do what he wants, but are throwing big money at the job, so they get half blamed, what really is our biggest issue here, because sure as hell we have one.
Our biggest problem - managers, players, or owners?
- Thread starter C'est Moi Cantona
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
The common denominator since even before SAF retired, in terms of foresight and long-term planning, the owners. And from 2013 it has only gotten worse, albeit with a slight improvement under Mourinho (for a while).
Starts at the top IMO. We've been so badly run since Fergie left. We brought in completely different managers and refused to back them 100%. This left us an overpaid, average squad.
It started with the awful decision of hiring a mid table manager to replace the greatest manager ever.
It started with the awful decision of hiring a mid table manager to replace the greatest manager ever.
I agree, but they just seem to be mostly immune from blame as compared whoever the current manager is, and the players.
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That's how it keeps going, round and round. However, just because we have terrible owners doesn't mean others are blameless. But the main portion of it, the root cause, is at the very top.
Owners are the biggest problem right now. The fact that we’re such a huge club and being ran so badly is baffling. We practically have infinite money to put it right and we have no clear direction.
Get new owners in. Get some people who know about football making football decisions and get us back where we fecking belong. If we’re ran properly, it’ll become apparent if the managers and players aren’t right.
Get new owners in. Get some people who know about football making football decisions and get us back where we fecking belong. If we’re ran properly, it’ll become apparent if the managers and players aren’t right.
Everyone deserves some blame, but I'd say poor managers has been our biggest problem. Mediocre managers bring everyone down to a mediocre level, while good managers make everyone look like a genuis.
It has been going to crap since 2009.
Crucial years of investment in the squad were missed between 2009 to 2013 and since it has been a number of unstructured panic buys.
So yes, it's the owners. For what it is worth, I think SAF would have not been able to win a single title between 2013 and now had he been younger and stayed on.
Maybe in the Leicester season. I dont think United would have finished inside the top 4 only twice in six years but think they would have certainly been done as an European powerhouse and likely as an EPL powerhouse as well.
Crucial years of investment in the squad were missed between 2009 to 2013 and since it has been a number of unstructured panic buys.
So yes, it's the owners. For what it is worth, I think SAF would have not been able to win a single title between 2013 and now had he been younger and stayed on.
Maybe in the Leicester season. I dont think United would have finished inside the top 4 only twice in six years but think they would have certainly been done as an European powerhouse and likely as an EPL powerhouse as well.
100% the owners. They are not serious about bringing the club back to the top. If they were they would never have let Woodward remain in his current position after all the crap he has done.
Leadership and Vision comes from the top. The poor structure, poor appointments, failed transfer strategy all originates from the top
Shit runs down hill
The poor decisions that have been made throughout the years have led us to the dross we have on the pitch.
How many players do we have that would interest a top side?
How many players do we have that would interest a top side?
1. Poor managers
2. Owners - for putting blind faith in poor managers & refusing to modernise the club.
3. Players - for not being good enough to transcend poor management.
2. Owners - for putting blind faith in poor managers & refusing to modernise the club.
3. Players - for not being good enough to transcend poor management.
Players and managers can be easily changed. Guys there is very few good owners out there. Usually they just have good Football people that make them look good.
100% owners. Even under Fergie we sold Ronaldo for £80m and couldn't re invest. Fergie knew we had to clear the most dangerous levels of Glazer debt ASAP.
Very poorly thought out answer. I suggest you go back to the drawing board, because it should be obvious to anyone why you are not making any sense here, whatsoever.
Mostly the owners. They're the ones who keep letting Woodward make bad decisions with zero repercussions to his position.
I'd also add the fans to the blame pie as well. Still holding on to the ideals of being perceived to be loyal by not protesting the state of affairs at the club more.
It's fine being loyal to Alex Ferguson, who had the track record. Hell, Ferguson received more abuse during the 3 years pre 2006 when we didn't win the league. Ed Woodward and the owners have hardly gotten half the abuse he got.
I'd also add the fans to the blame pie as well. Still holding on to the ideals of being perceived to be loyal by not protesting the state of affairs at the club more.
It's fine being loyal to Alex Ferguson, who had the track record. Hell, Ferguson received more abuse during the 3 years pre 2006 when we didn't win the league. Ed Woodward and the owners have hardly gotten half the abuse he got.
You’re really blaming fans for supporting? They’re not paid to make the decisions mate
This thing goes in circle.
The best run club in the world (whomever you think that is) has undergone transition period where nothing works. Barcelona, madrid, city, hotspur, pool, etc.
Ideally ed should find the next saf but sadly it doesnt always works that way
The best run club in the world (whomever you think that is) has undergone transition period where nothing works. Barcelona, madrid, city, hotspur, pool, etc.
Ideally ed should find the next saf but sadly it doesnt always works that way
All of the above
Fans blaming good manager for poor player. Fans blaming good owner employing bad manager. Fand supporting great manager appointing shit manager to replace him. Fans defending lazy player to oust a good manager.
We as fans dont always got it right as well
Of course they're not. But when the team is getting applauded off the pitch after a loss to a relegated team, it just fosters a feeling that United are just happy to be drifting into irrelevance, earning the players, Ed Woodward and the owners loads of money in the process of doing so.
For every season ticket that's not renewed, another 4-5 people will be clamouring to get it. Old Trafford will always be full. Sponsorship money will keep piling in. We are dying a slow death, partly because of how well supported the club is.
Your comments are interesting. You are aware how much the club has spent since SAF retired.
Who do you feel has NOT been backed?
In response to the thread, I would suggest that the problems start with Ed Woodward, whose record as Director, is pretty poor from an on-field perspective. HE himself was a poor appointment, proving to be way, way out of his depth. He also seems to lack humility (as he should step down), and this (his) massive ego has resulted in the recruitment of Managers , who also have lacked humility , and have carried an ego which they have tried to assume to be larger and more important than Manchester United FC.
Moyes was just average fodder. An appointment with good intentions, but he just was not good enough.
As for players... we have simply purchased an abundance of average players.
Woodward. Everything begins and ends with him.
Starts from the top so the owners who employ the people to run the club and continue to watch bad decision after bad decision and the shit ton of money spent, it's obscene and a severe example of gross mismanagement.
At worst we should've bounced along similar to Chelsea but we can't even come anywhere close. Usually money buys success, even Jack Walker managed to win a league title.
Said it before but we're a footballing example of a bad day trader, they lose around 90% of their trades and go bankrupt. The only difference is we have a supply of money coming in still. If you keep giving that day trader money they will keep on losing.
At worst we should've bounced along similar to Chelsea but we can't even come anywhere close. Usually money buys success, even Jack Walker managed to win a league title.
Said it before but we're a footballing example of a bad day trader, they lose around 90% of their trades and go bankrupt. The only difference is we have a supply of money coming in still. If you keep giving that day trader money they will keep on losing.
If it comes down one then it's easily the owners. Everything else is a consequence of that
Wrong decisions on buying new players with huge contracts and extending contracts of too many average players
100% ^ this ^. We've made some bad appointments managerially (Jose and Moyes to my mind were always doomed to fail), and the players have a lot to answer for. But the Glazers are a cancer upon this club, and Woodward et al don't have a clue when it comes to footballing matters
The commom denominator here seems to be that the fans are blaming people, so we're not being helpful
Owners and the man filling their pockets, Woodward. Things will have to change if we are to get any better.
New owners new CEO or just carry on the way we are.
New owners new CEO or just carry on the way we are.
The blame ultimately has to fall at the door of the owners, it is their role to ensure the club is well run as both a footballing entity as well as a business one and they have failed to do that.
We have hired a manager too small for the job who couldn't attract the kind of players that would drive the club forward, followed by two managers past their prime who invested in players to fit their outdated styles (or philosophies...)
It is beyond embarrassing that we still have players starting games that were at the club during the Fergie years but couldn't get a game then and haven't improved since.
The club have also been absolutely toothless when it has come to getting rid of deadwood at the club. Say what you will about the treatment of Fellaini, but there is no way a player like him who showed no real signs of being good enough for the team should get 177 appearances for the team. It was clear after the Moyes season that he wasn't cut out for it and should have been quickly moved on. Teams like City would have cut their losses and moved on to the next signing.
The wages have also ballooned out of control within the team because we can't offer the prestige of being a top team anymore so there has to be a trade off, and we have gotten into bed with crooks like Raiola far too often.
The club needs to have more footballing men at board level to ensure we have a strategy. And we have to pick a manager with a vision and whether that be Ole, Poch or whomever we need to back that vision and give the manager time.
One problem I can see is that the club's value is astronomical, so the only options for a new ownership is likely to be some kind of oil state with troublesome relationships with human rights.
The club is in a dark dark place right now, but we don't have to look particularly far to see how we can get back into the elite with wise spending and proper strategy. the fact that Spurs got to the CL final without spending a penny should give us hope about our own future.
We have hired a manager too small for the job who couldn't attract the kind of players that would drive the club forward, followed by two managers past their prime who invested in players to fit their outdated styles (or philosophies...)
It is beyond embarrassing that we still have players starting games that were at the club during the Fergie years but couldn't get a game then and haven't improved since.
The club have also been absolutely toothless when it has come to getting rid of deadwood at the club. Say what you will about the treatment of Fellaini, but there is no way a player like him who showed no real signs of being good enough for the team should get 177 appearances for the team. It was clear after the Moyes season that he wasn't cut out for it and should have been quickly moved on. Teams like City would have cut their losses and moved on to the next signing.
The wages have also ballooned out of control within the team because we can't offer the prestige of being a top team anymore so there has to be a trade off, and we have gotten into bed with crooks like Raiola far too often.
The club needs to have more footballing men at board level to ensure we have a strategy. And we have to pick a manager with a vision and whether that be Ole, Poch or whomever we need to back that vision and give the manager time.
One problem I can see is that the club's value is astronomical, so the only options for a new ownership is likely to be some kind of oil state with troublesome relationships with human rights.
The club is in a dark dark place right now, but we don't have to look particularly far to see how we can get back into the elite with wise spending and proper strategy. the fact that Spurs got to the CL final without spending a penny should give us hope about our own future.
Lack of structure first and foremost but the managers and the players have been pure piss. So really it’s the owners, managers and the players.
No worries then.
No worries then.
It's a combination of all 3, but ultimately it's the owners who pick the managers. It's no good just keep picking random managers with differing styles of play, the player set will never work. Swap lukaku Mata/lingard rashford/martial with Liverpool's top 3 and they wouldn't have been anywhere near the Champions lge final, never mind win it.
People are obsessed with black and white, this or that. It's a combination aka all of the above.
Poor upper management/owners - seemingly mostly interested in commercial gain and not putting enough in place to address the football.
Poor management - not having the players be vetted properly before buying. Poor outlook/approach, poor personal skills, poor tactics, poor buying, poor motivational qualities.
Poor players - poor attitudes, poor technical quality.
It does start at the top though, then cascades down, but if they'd got luckier with a manager that clicked things would be a lot rosier.
Poor upper management/owners - seemingly mostly interested in commercial gain and not putting enough in place to address the football.
Poor management - not having the players be vetted properly before buying. Poor outlook/approach, poor personal skills, poor tactics, poor buying, poor motivational qualities.
Poor players - poor attitudes, poor technical quality.
It does start at the top though, then cascades down, but if they'd got luckier with a manager that clicked things would be a lot rosier.
There is only one common denominator in it all. And we have tried 2 of the greatest managers of all all time and the only way anyone can explain away mourinho's failure is 'madrid broke him'. Seems like a weaker argument than the club is poorly run
100% Woodward, the man has no clue about football.
For me the biggest problem is Woodward. The owners have backed the club in the transfer market but we’ve made some terrible decisions in the transfer market, contract negotiations and manager appointments. I accept that the CEO’s of most top clubs are business or finance men, that’s what you need to organise and run a successful ‘business’. Most of them have had the good sense to bring on board football knowledgeable people to help drive football related decisions. This is our single biggest failure imo. We must have a DoF/Technical Director/Call them what you will to run the football side. Good CEO’s appoint heads of departments to run all aspects of the business, reporting to the CEO. They do not try to be one of those heads of department themselves.
The biggest problem over the last 6 years was misaligned expectations. Expecting success to come along with a rebuild. We were never ready to accept not winning in order to build a stable long term plan and identity. That Adidas clause and the expectations of the club and fans killed any notion that we could take the time needed to rebuild.
We would never have got LVG or Mou if that was the case, both were old and old fashioned managers who’s identity never fit the United identity but were brought in because of their winning reputations and previous success.
From the start we should have gotten a genuine young and progressive manager like Liverpool and Spurs did and do a proper rebuild prioritising bringing through youth and signing players who fit the style and identity.
It seems like we’ve reached that point now but it shouldn’t have taken 6 years
We would never have got LVG or Mou if that was the case, both were old and old fashioned managers who’s identity never fit the United identity but were brought in because of their winning reputations and previous success.
From the start we should have gotten a genuine young and progressive manager like Liverpool and Spurs did and do a proper rebuild prioritising bringing through youth and signing players who fit the style and identity.
It seems like we’ve reached that point now but it shouldn’t have taken 6 years
Starts at the top. Always. That's where the buck or pound or whatever the feck stops.
In most companies when staff feck up you look at the structure and way of working to ensure everything was in place for them to succeed. I don't think that was the case for any of the managers.
Whether multiple people or elements are to blame is irrelevant, sort out the structure first and stop holding our managers back.
Whether multiple people or elements are to blame is irrelevant, sort out the structure first and stop holding our managers back.