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Wumminator

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Released 15 players. That means the board and management think there were 15 players on the books worse than Young, Smalling, Jones, Darmian, Rojo, Lingard, Sanchez and Lukaku (Rashford and Martial just staying off the list for now). Worrying.
This.

This is the worst post I have ever seen on this site.
 

sp_107

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We need more rebuilding then Madrid and recent activity explains how serious we are.

Aren't we in a situation to get rid of 10-12 players and replace them with quality ? So what's stopping us ?

At least 5/6 top signings in this window and a other 5/6 in next windows.

If we go by signing 2/3 in the window then prepare for long years ahead
 

LARulz

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Released 15 players. That means the board and management think there were 15 players on the books worse than Young, Smalling, Jones, Darmian, Rojo, Lingard, Sanchez and Lukaku (Rashford and Martial just staying off the list for now). Worrying.
Those contracts expired, so no, not necessarily. All of those (with the exception of Young and Jones as they signed new deals) were not possible to just let go. Also these players need bids from other clubs, we can't just give them away for free, what kind of business is that? The clubs we think some of those players should be at are not going to/be able to pay the wages they are currently on.
 

Eleven-Eighteen

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It's not the end of the world yet. United have always been pretty shiite in the transfer market, even during the Fergie and Gill era. A lot of our big signings have come after a long and protracted process. And most of our big signings haven't actually gone through. The couple of summers when Mourinho was Manager was a glimmer of hope in my eyes (Mourinho was always a monster in the transfer market), but we're largely back to our old ways. I do believe we'll make one or two promising signings. I just have this feeling that playing under Ole is not a draw for most big name, promising players.
 

Lentwood

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I am all for signings players like Daniel James but I hope our Board are not gearing up for anything less than a £200m summer...we spent £60m last year plus made money on players out.

I get the feeling that there is no money again. We had no money for transfers between 2005-2010 (Fact - positive net spend whilst PIK loans where restructured) and I have a nasty feeling that we went big(ish) for a couple of years in the hope of a quick fix, with a view to paying for these players over a period of time

I would be interested to know - of the NET money we have spent since SAF left, how much has actually been paid to the clubs/agents receiving and how much do we still owe?

The big problem we have is even if we do spend £200m, every other big club will spend £100m+ also so its going to be very difficult to bridge the gap
 

Needham

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It's not the end of the world yet. United have always been pretty shiite in the transfer market, even during the Fergie and Gill era. A lot of our big signings have come after a long and protracted process. And most of our big signings haven't actually gone through. The couple of summers when Mourinho was Manager was a glimmer of hope in my eyes (Mourinho was always a monster in the transfer market), but we're largely back to our old ways. I do believe we'll make one or two promising signings. I just have this feeling that playing under Ole is not a draw for most big name, promising players.
He wasn't a monster for United. Fell into the same trap of buying additions who had little in common with the playing styles of those already here, hence none of them gelled despite his best efforts to publicly shame them into being better. Wonder if Ole can be that man to get the tanker facing the right direction.
 

Class of 63

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He wasn't a monster for United. Fell into the same trap of buying additions who had little in common with the playing styles of those already here, hence none of them gelled despite his best efforts to publicly shame them into being better. Wonder if Ole can be that man to get the tanker facing the right direction.
He was, a Monster raving loony.
 

manuchamp88

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We need more rebuilding then Madrid and recent activity explains how serious we are.

Aren't we in a situation to get rid of 10-12 players and replace them with quality ? So what's stopping us ?

At least 5/6 top signings in this window and a other 5/6 in next windows.

If we go by signing 2/3 in the window then prepare for long years ahead
You have to admire how much better Madrid are run. They've already got 4 or so transfers done. We've barely got 1 across the line and Ole wants it all done by next month. But, maybe Woodward will finally come good this time. Nevertheless, one of the most important "transfers" for us this window should be a Director of Football.
 

buckooo1978

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if we wanted a quick start to the Summer it's pretty obvious that a Director of Footbsll would have needed to have been in place from about March at the latest I'd guess

someone to work with Ole, assess our needs, identify targets, negotiate etc

even that probably wasnt enough time in reality

reckon this Summer we might hit a few of the problem areas but maybe we are better to wait for the right players if we cant get our prime targets

a good example of this would be a player like Declan Rice - would probably cost 60m and I haven't seen that much from him that suggests hes much better than McTominay if at all - better trying to get the next De Jong..... I wonder about a player like Artur if he is surplus at Barca?

as usual we've fecked up.... Director of Football really should have been sorted by Christmas given our shambles of a transfer window last Summer
 

Eleven-Eighteen

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He wasn't a monster for United. Fell into the same trap of buying additions who had little in common with the playing styles of those already here, hence none of them gelled despite his best efforts to publicly shame them into being better. Wonder if Ole can be that man to get the tanker facing the right direction.
Yeah he definitely wasn't as effective at transfers as he had been at Chelsea and Inter, but I put that down to the United scouting and recruitment structure. I find it hard to believe that someone with a particular skill set simply loses it overnight. Having said that, he brought Pogba and Zlatan and Bailly. All fantastic signings but just not good enough to take us to where we needed to be
 

Johan07

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I am all for signings players like Daniel James but I hope our Board are not gearing up for anything less than a £200m summer...we spent £60m last year plus made money on players out.

I get the feeling that there is no money again. We had no money for transfers between 2005-2010 (Fact - positive net spend whilst PIK loans where restructured) and I have a nasty feeling that we went big(ish) for a couple of years in the hope of a quick fix, with a view to paying for these players over a period of time

I would be interested to know - of the NET money we have spent since SAF left, how much has actually been paid to the clubs/agents receiving and how much do we still owe?

The big problem we have is even if we do spend £200m, every other big club will spend £100m+ also so its going to be very difficult to bridge the gap
This has been discussed in other threads, but I guess I have to reitarate it again: Its really not about money being available for investing in transfer fees. Its about the fecking wage bill. I just dont get why this is not accepted by now.
We would have no problem investing 300-400m in young talented players like De Ligt, Sancho, Felix etc. We need to make room for their wages though. You cant buy 300-400m worth of talent and be under the illusion that it would do nothing to our wage bill.
We need to accept to be able to do some real damage in the transfer market this summer, we will need to first get rid of Sanchez, Lukaku and even De Gea. I dont know if he is worth 350k a week as things stand now. I am not mentioning Pogba because I want him to stay, but technically he is in the same bracket. Matic also. Those are our major earners. Herrera would have been too, if we would have given him what he wanted, which is why I cant blame the club for that even if I love Herrera. That money is needed elsewhere.
Keeping Jones or Rojo around or not does not matter very much, even if its a popular opinion that we can get rid of them and then suddenly have a lot of money for wages for world class players. Which is just stupid. Like a Jones and a De Ligt would command the same wages.
The fifteen players let go yesterday was a start, but thats not a lot of wages being freed up tbh.
I dont get why people get so wired up when the transfer window is not even open yet, but if we do go longer into the summer without any more major signings, it will be because we have not been able to free up wage space. It will not be because of money not being available for transfer fees.
And of course: the other reason; that the players wanted by the Caf is simply unavailable or - dear god - might not want to join United right now.
EDIT
I should just add what riled me up about this post. The claim that we "just" "spent" 60 m last summer.
I am sorry, but net spend is irrelevant. We probably had the most expensive transfer window of every PL-club last summer. Mainly because of Alexis Sanchez (who I am counting since he was an early summer transfer). He might have just "cost" 25m, but thats the most expensive transfer the club has ever made. Its an excellent example of why transfer fees does not mean very much. Its all about the wages and the total cost of the contract, including asset depreciation for older players. Our wage bill exploded last summer, with contract renewals and especially the Sanchez deal.
That our "spend" was 60m is irrelevant.
 
Last edited:

Crashoutcassius

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It's not the end of the world yet. United have always been pretty shiite in the transfer market, even during the Fergie and Gill era. A lot of our big signings have come after a long and protracted process. And most of our big signings haven't actually gone through. The couple of summers when Mourinho was Manager was a glimmer of hope in my eyes (Mourinho was always a monster in the transfer market), but we're largely back to our old ways. I do believe we'll make one or two promising signings. I just have this feeling that playing under Ole is not a draw for most big name, promising players.
Mayve we should be signing players that want to play for man United for a change rather than for Jose mourinho...
 

Josep Dowling

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We could have signed Messi and that could have failed due to neglecting certain positions! It's a team game, you need a functioning side to release the ability of certain players! I haven't seen us linked to any right wingers in this window, so are we going to start with Mata or Lingard who don't stay there again?
This, this and 100% this. We haven’t had balance for years. That’s why I am fearing the worst again this season. We need a RB and a RW desperately because we simply don’t have one. Young was never a natural RB, we don’t have a RW.

Meunier may not be the best RB in the world but is a dam sight better than Young, he’s available, a United fan and cheap compared to current rates.

RW is the essential signing of the summer for me, we lack any attacking threat from that wing, constantly putting a player out of position to play there. We haven’t been linked with anyone specific to that position. Already signing another fecking LW. So potentially Rashford, Martial, Sanchez and James play on the LW but no natural RW.

The main link is number 10s when we don’t play with a number 10 (Fernandes and Felix) in a 4-3-3 system. If we do sign a number 10, Pogba will be dropped back into a more defensive role which we all know he doesn’t do well enough to be part of the defensive two midfielders. Once again it will be square pegs in round holes. I can’t believe the manager, staff and board can’t see this.
 

Godfather

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Hopefully we are quietly conducting business in the background, with a thorough and considered approach. The way we have been conducting ourselves in the transfer market in the last few years has been embarrassing, frankly.
When was the last time we did something quietly? Even with the guy from the championship everyone knew weeks before we were in for him.
 

Saffron

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You have to admire how much better Madrid are run. They've already got 4 or so transfers done. We've barely got 1 across the line and Ole wants it all done by next month. But, maybe Woodward will finally come good this time. Nevertheless, one of the most important "transfers" for us this window should be a Director of Football.
And even before these transfers, their historically bad 2018/2019 team was much better than ours.

How many of our players would slot into their starting eleven, 3?

Much better depth as well. Bale would be an instant starter for us.
 

Fosu-Mens

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This has been discussed in other threads, but I guess I have to reitarate it again: Its really not about money being available for investing in transfer fees. Its about the fecking wage bill. I just dont get why this is not accepted by now.
We would have no problem investing 300-400m in young talented players like De Ligt, Sancho, Felix etc. We need to make room for their wages though. You cant buy 300-400m worth of talent and be under the illusion that it would do nothing to our wage bill.
We need to accept to be able to do some real damage in the transfer market this summer, we will need to first get rid of Sanchez, Lukaku and even De Gea. I dont know if he is worth 350k a week as things stand now. I am not mentioning Pogba because I want him to stay, but technically he is in the same bracket. Matic also. Those are our major earners. Herrera would have been too, if we would have given him what he wanted, which is why I cant blame the club for that even if I love Herrera. That money is needed elsewhere.
Keeping Jones or Rojo around or not does not matter very much, even if its a popular opinion that we can get rid of them and then suddenly have a lot of money for wages for world class players. Which is just stupid. Like a Jones and a De Ligt would command the same wages.
The fifteen players let go yesterday was a start, but thats not a lot of wages being freed up tbh.
I dont get why people get so wired up when the transfer window is not even open yet, but if we do go longer into the summer without any more major signings, it will be because we have not been able to free up wage space. It will not be because of money not being available for transfer fees.
And of course: the other reason; that the players wanted by the Caf is simply unavailable or - dear god - might not want to join United right now.
EDIT
I should just add what riled me up about this post. The claim that we "just" "spent" 60 m last summer.
I am sorry, but net spend is irrelevant. We probably had the most expensive transfer window of every PL-club last summer. Mainly because of Alexis Sanchez (who I am counting since he was an early summer transfer). He might have just "cost" 25m, but thats the most expensive transfer the club has ever made. Its an excellent example of why transfer fees does not mean very much. Its all about the wages and the total cost of the contract, including asset depreciation for older players. Our wage bill exploded last summer, with contract renewals and especially the Sanchez deal.
That our "spend" was 60m is irrelevant.
Did you not recently state that we have a 50% wage/turnover ratio? With the recent contract renewals the ratio might be closer to 55%, but we could still operate on a greater ratio short term in anticipation of players leaving next season. And if we had to sell players to buy new players, and since £££ is not an issue, then we can pay them off or sell them on the cheap if it was critical.

We do not need to renew with Mata. £140k per week freed up.
We can sell Lukaku to Inter. We do not need to demand £60m+ for him. £200k+ per week freed up.
And Rojo and Jones are both on £80k+ per week.
Hopefully we will see some traffic in and out of the club after the internationals regardess if wages is the constrait or not.

How do we end up paying this amount in wages for a number of players that are simply not good enough? What financial metrics does the club operate with when they renew deals with players that are not useful and when we need to free up wages for new investments? And who decides that we should wait sometime into the player's final contract year to renew? That is simply bad decisionmaking.
 

Eleven-Eighteen

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Mayve we should be signing players that want to play for man United for a change rather than for Jose mourinho...
You do remember SAF was as big a draw if not bigger than the Man United badge don't you? It's a packaged deal. If young players like De Ligt don't think they can develop under Ole's coaching, they aren't going to come. "Man United" doesn't train players, coaches and managers do.
 

Fosu-Mens

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When was the last time we did something quietly? Even with the guy from the championship everyone knew weeks before we were in for him.
Does not create enough attention to the club. We are trying to create as much social media traction as possible, as this is a selling metric to potential sponsors/investors.
 

sunama

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I am curious what are we waiting for. This is easiest window for Ed. We can't bring top class players this window. So i don't think that buying second tier players is that hard
Woodward will make an absolute meal of it.
He'll either fail to buy the players or pay over the odds. Perhaps this is why he is looking to the Championship - whose players would definitely want to step into the EPL and wouldn't be too hard to get financially.
The problems begin when you try and buy EPL players - they have high demands and are currently unsure what is happening at our club. If they join, they may fail and be sold 2 years later, as we've seen with many of our players. The other issue is that we don't know how Ole will do - if he does badly, he may be replaced soonish. So players who might be willing to join us, could simply decide to stay at their current club for a year and see what things are like next Summer.
 

manuchamp88

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And even before these transfers, their historically bad 2018/2019 team was much better than ours.

How many of our players would slot into their starting eleven, 3?

Much better depth as well. Bale would be an instant starter for us.
I'd say just De Gea and Pogba but I know what you mean. Still, I wouldn't take Bale - far too injury-prone.
 

dove

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Nothing happened because we silently hope Chelsea will crumble if transfer ban stays and without Hazard, Arsenal will do Arsenal so we could heroically snatch 4th place without investment.
 

Saffron

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I'd say just De Gea and Pogba but I know what you mean. Still, I wouldn't take Bale - far too injury-prone.
I would never want to buy Bale, but in a hypothetical scenario if he came here for free, wouldn’t you start him?
 

Johan07

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Did you not recently state that we have a 50% wage/turnover ratio? With the recent contract renewals the ratio might be closer to 55%, but we could still operate on a greater ratio short term in anticipation of players leaving next season. And if we had to sell players to buy new players, and since £££ is not an issue, then we can pay them off or sell them on the cheap if it was critical.

We do not need to renew with Mata. £140k per week freed up.
We can sell Lukaku to Inter. We do not need to demand £60m+ for him. £200k+ per week freed up.
And Rojo and Jones are both on £80k+ per week.
Hopefully we will see some traffic in and out of the club after the internationals regardess if wages is the constrait or not.

How do we end up paying this amount in wages for a number of players that are simply not good enough? What financial metrics does the club operate with when they renew deals with players that are not useful and when we need to free up wages for new investments? And who decides that we should wait sometime into the player's final contract year to renew? That is simply bad decisionmaking.
Its difficult to say exactly, since the financials always are released a year late. But the last reported turnover was 590m and has been reported by many outlets that our wage budget now is at or at least very close to 300m.
I would not be surprised to see us go to 55 percent next year, even if the turnover is projected to rise to 610m for the next financial year. Depends on what effect the absence of CL has and how much this is countered by the 25 percent wage reduction that many players have in their contracts.
You cant say exactly until after the financials are closed for the year, but yeah, we will prob be around 50-55 percent already going into the year so we need to get rid before we buy - someone major at least - I think is fair to say.
 

Celoti23-81

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I would never want to buy Bale, but in a hypothetical scenario if he came here for free, wouldn’t you start him?
Yeah, 100 percent. Plays on the right, a position we have neglected for years. And the sole reason all our managers have failed post fergie! Add a first choice right back to the mix too
 

Fosu-Mens

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Its difficult to say exactly, since the financials always are released a year late. But the last reported turnover was 590m and has been reported by many outlets that our wage budget now is at or at least very close to 300m.
I would not be surprised to see us go to 55 percent next year, even if the turnover is projected to rise to 610m for the next financial year. Depends on what effect the absence of CL has and how much this is countered by the 25 percent wage reduction that many players have in their contracts.
You cant say exactly until after the financials are closed for the year, but yeah, we will prob be around 50-55 percent already going into the year so we need to get rid before we buy - someone major at least - I think is fair to say.
And if we had a deal in place for a player we wanted we could increase the wage/turnover ratio short term. It is not stopping us from signing 1 major or two smaller players. It is stopping us from buying 5 good or 3 top players.

Still bafles me how we conduct our contractrenewals and how bad our contracts really are.
 

Johan07

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Its difficult to say exactly, since the financials always are released a year late. But the last reported turnover was 590m and has been reported by many outlets that our wage budget now is at or at least very close to 300m.
I would not be surprised to see us go to 55 percent next year, even if the turnover is projected to rise to 610m for the next financial year. Depends on what effect the absence of CL has and how much this is countered by the 25 percent wage reduction that many players have in their contracts.
You cant say exactly until after the financials are closed for the year, but yeah, we will prob be around 50-55 percent already going into the year so we need to get rid before we buy - someone major at least - I think is fair to say.
Did you not recently state that we have a 50% wage/turnover ratio? With the recent contract renewals the ratio might be closer to 55%, but we could still operate on a greater ratio short term in anticipation of players leaving next season. And if we had to sell players to buy new players, and since £££ is not an issue, then we can pay them off or sell them on the cheap if it was critical.

We do not need to renew with Mata. £140k per week freed up.
We can sell Lukaku to Inter. We do not need to demand £60m+ for him. £200k+ per week freed up.
And Rojo and Jones are both on £80k+ per week.
Hopefully we will see some traffic in and out of the club after the internationals regardess if wages is the constrait or not.

How do we end up paying this amount in wages for a number of players that are simply not good enough? What financial metrics does the club operate with when they renew deals with players that are not useful and when we need to free up wages for new investments? And who decides that we should wait sometime into the player's final contract year to renew? That is simply bad decisionmaking.
The first bolded part is an interesting question, which many use as an argument against Woodward and Judge, and that they are "bad negotiators". I would say that its been down to our managers, no one else. If one does not think that the manager is made aware of how much a contract renewal will cost before approving it, one is naive. And with that always comes an option to say no and spend the money elsewhere. Does anyone think that Matt Judge just renews contracts on his own?
A great example is Fellaini last summer. Yeah, he got a fat deal from the club. Who finally OKd it and chose to spend those wages on him instead of a new CB who he was crying about? No one but Mourinho himself. You cant blame Judge or even Woodward for this. IMO there is no player that plays for the club that is not there by the managers choice. Including what the player costs.
The second bolded part has an easy reply. The wage budget. Again. Most of the players whose contracts have been run down are older players on fairly low wages. See Herrera for example. Others are squad players on low wages that we are uncertain if we want to keep. See Jones and Rojo. It does not come cheap to renew a contract. People act as if they just will renew on the same terms. It would have cost quite a bit to renew with Herrera one or two years ago, and it would have affected what we could have done elsewhere in the market. The simple question is that its been financially correct to see out the contracts. With exception for De Gea, but thats most likely his own decision and not lack of effort from the club.
 

Bestietom

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Transfers can be done quickly, IF the player wants the move here. There will be many that are not interested in coming here so we need to have a plan B.
Ole needs to make a statement with players he brings in to the club this summer.
 

LawCharltonBest

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Oh ok, what are the lottery numbers for the weeks in between?
Lottery numbers are difficult to predict. United not bothering to do anything is easy to predict. Last Summer we signed a third choice GK and Fred when we so obviously needed 4-5 fresh bodies to build on our 2nd place finish and push on a league title push. January we signed nothing. Despite needing the same.

Every Summer it’s obvious to 90% of United fans what we need and we haven’t done it once post-2013
 

Fosu-Mens

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The first bolded part is an interesting question, which many use as an argument against Woodward and Judge, and that they are "bad negotiators". I would say that its been down to our managers, no one else. If one does not think that the manager is made aware of how much a contract renewal will cost before approving it, one is naive. And with that always comes an option to say no and spend the money elsewhere. Does anyone think that Matt Judge just renews contracts on his own?
A great example is Fellaini last summer. Yeah, he got a fat deal from the club. Who finally OKd it and chose to spend those wages on him instead of a new CB who he was crying about? No one but Mourinho himself. You cant blame Judge or even Woodward for this. IMO there is no player that plays for the club that is not there by the managers choice. Including what the player costs.
The second bolded part has an easy reply. The wage budget. Again. Most of the players whose contracts have been run down are older players on fairly low wages. See Herrera for example. Others are squad players on low wages that we are uncertain if we want to keep. See Jones and Rojo. It does not come cheap to renew a contract. People act as if they just will renew on the same terms. It would have cost quite a bit to renew with Herrera one or two years ago, and it would have affected what we could have done elsewhere in the market. The simple question is that its been financially correct to see out the contracts. With exception for De Gea, but that's most likely his own decision and not lack of effort from the club.
First part: Your opinion is as good as others who put a majority of the blame on the owners/Woody and subsequently Judge. Given the lack of transparency on who runs the show at the club, we cannot know for certain. So no point in playing the blame game when we can't verify who is to blame. Most likely there is no single individual to blame e.g. some decisions are on the managers, some on Woodward et al. Problem is that the number of bad decisions is starting to become a problem(wage/turnover ratio is close to the healthy/unhealthy limit.)

Second part: You start the renewing process right before the summer when there are two years left on the contract with initial discussions on whether the player wants to resign and if the demands are sensible. If they are, then you either renew now or ways until after the summer window. If the demands are not sensible or the player refuses to resign, then you can start the process of selling and replacing the player early, without being forced to sell him on a cheap or being forced to pay the less than sensible demands from the agent/player. Look at City and Sane and how we ended up getting fleeced by Martial and Shaws new contracts. And with DDG. And most likely Rashford.
Renewing contracts for squad players like Jones and Rojo makes sense if the decision is made based on the financial cost it would take to replace them with a new signing serving the same role in the team and let Rojo and Jones leave on a free. Still, it would be better from a footballing pov to have sold them when they had time left on their contract, and replace them with players that actually are good enough to serve as squad players on the same wage that they would have been offered.
 

manuchamp88

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I would never want to buy Bale, but in a hypothetical scenario if he came here for free, wouldn’t you start him?
Yes but thankfully we don't have to worry about that. I'm more worried about not shifting deadwood and not replacing them with quality either.
 

Wumminator

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Obertans #1 fan.
Lottery numbers are difficult to predict. United not bothering to do anything is easy to predict. Last Summer we signed a third choice GK and Fred when we so obviously needed 4-5 fresh bodies to build on our 2nd place finish and push on a league title push. January we signed nothing. Despite needing the same.

Every Summer it’s obvious to 90% of United fans what we need and we haven’t done it once post-2013
You what?

I've read multiple posts on here about us 'winning the transfer window'. The years when we signed Falcao, Pogba, Kagawa etc this place was going mad saying how great the signing are.
 

manuchamp88

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
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I would never want to buy Bale, but in a hypothetical scenario if he came here for free, wouldn’t you start him?
Yes but thankfully we don't have to worry about that. I'm more worried about not shifting deadwood and not replacing them with quality either.