Gaming Pokémon Strumfest

elmo

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I think it'll probably come in the form of DLCs.

They're pretty much redoing everything for all Pokemon considering it's a whole new step up from the 3DS to the Switch, so they'll need more time to do all existing Pokemons.
 

Damien

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Being a massive loser and figuring out how many are left to get before the next game is out, 237 to get before then

In terms of Mythical pokemon, I'm rubbish. Got zero/had zero until yesterday. Fired up Omega Ruby yesterday to try and go Unown hunting (turns out I hadn't got far enough in the story to do that), and went to a pokecentre and there was someone waiting with a Mystery Gift. Turned out to be this:


The event was apparently four years ago yet I still managed to get it - don't know if it was because I had logged in by some miracle during the small space of time it was available then didn't pick it up until now but I notice you're missing Diancie (unless you haven't moved it over), so worth a shot to look on that set of games.
 

Snowjoe

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In terms of Mythical pokemon, I'm rubbish. Got zero/had zero until yesterday. Fired up Omega Ruby yesterday to try and go Unown hunting (turns out I hadn't got far enough in the story to do that), and went to a pokecentre and there was someone waiting with a Mystery Gift. Turned out to be this:


The event was apparently four years ago yet I still managed to get it - don't know if it was because I had logged in by some miracle during the small space of time it was available then didn't pick it up until now but I notice you're missing Diancie (unless you haven't moved it over), so worth a shot to look on that set of games.
Hahaha nice result, yeah I got Diance in that distro, I’ve got most of the legendaries to be fair and I’m picking up the ones I need in ORAS and Ultra Sun at the moment
 

Havak

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So, Masuda has been quoted on saying that there are currently no plans to add the missing Pokémon from Sword & Shield via patches in the future. Obviously, this doesn't mean that decision can't change, but it sounds like they have a lot on their plate and must have more to do post-release than just support Sword & Shield (probably other games already in the works that will need facilitating). Game Freak have cited that it was more demanding than they initially expected to add in models and animations for every single Pokémon and their other formes (surpassing over 1000 when you take that into account), despite having an extra year on this game compared with most other Pokémon main series titles. I suspect Dynamax is a big part of this as they would have to develop larger models and different animations for every single Pokémon along with different 'Dynamax attacks' for every single Pokémon in the game.

This makes me think that the missing Pokémon from Sword & Shield simply will never be in Sword & Shield, unless they want to support this game over a year after release with a patch, when they'd rather everyone just buy the next game anyway. Let's say the next game(s) are still in Galar (very likely), I'd say it's odds on that they choose to model and animate the hundreds of Pokémon missing for the Sword & Shield sequels because they will already have Gen 8 material for the Pokémon that are in Sword & Shield, meaning the next game(s) will likely have it all. It's still a little disappointing, especially when you think about this next point:

Pokémon Home is releasing this year we assume? Probably within a month of Sword & Shield. It is seemingly a one-way system, where if you transfer Pokémon from Bank/Go/Let's Go etc to Home and it is permanently there, to send to Sword & Shield. Unfortunately, you transferred some Pokémon that can't ever be in Sword & Shield. Now, you have zero games that they can be used in, they're stuck in a storage box for a minimum of a year, probably two years if they go down the road of Let's Go one year followed by main series the next year. This is at least a bit concerning for a lot of people I'm sure, especially less savvy people who play the games and don't read up much on this kind of thing online.

I think a safer cop-out would have been to delay the release of Home until they'd finished all of the models, making it so we're forced to just use the Switch games as a standalone for a longer time. Fans would know the service is coming, but think it isn't ready yet.
 

Damien

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Hahaha nice result, yeah I got Diance in that distro, I’ve got most of the legendaries to be fair and I’m picking up the ones I need in ORAS and Ultra Sun at the moment
Nice.
So, Masuda has been quoted on saying that there are currently no plans to add the missing Pokémon from Sword & Shield via patches in the future. Obviously, this doesn't mean that decision can't change, but it sounds like they have a lot on their plate and must have more to do post-release than just support Sword & Shield (probably other games already in the works that will need facilitating). Game Freak have cited that it was more demanding than they initially expected to add in models and animations for every single Pokémon and their other formes (surpassing over 1000 when you take that into account), despite having an extra year on this game compared with most other Pokémon main series titles. I suspect Dynamax is a big part of this as they would have to develop larger models and different animations for every single Pokémon along with different 'Dynamax attacks' for every single Pokémon in the game.
Game Freak have never really been ones for post-launch support with patches and didn't expect that to change. Thing is, the excuse about how demanding it is to add the models and animations doesn't really stack up when the franchise makes so much money and they're charging more for SwSh as it is a console experience than what they charged for the handheld games. Increase the size of the development team. They've scrapped Mega-Evolutions and Z-Moves altogether, so that is less work in that respect, but they've made more work by having every Pokémon being able to be Dynamaxed.
This makes me think that the missing Pokémon from Sword & Shield simply will never be in Sword & Shield, unless they want to support this game over a year after release with a patch, when they'd rather everyone just buy the next game anyway. Let's say the next game(s) are still in Galar (very likely), I'd say it's odds on that they choose to model and animate the hundreds of Pokémon missing for the Sword & Shield sequels because they will already have Gen 8 material for the Pokémon that are in Sword & Shield, meaning the next game(s) will likely have it all. It's still a little disappointing, especially when you think about this next point:
From what he said in the interview, it sounds to me like the plan going forward is to only have a limited number in:
We knew at some point we weren't going to be able to indefinitely keep supporting all of the Pokemon, and we just found that Sword and Shield would probably be a good point to go back and reevaluate what would be the best selection of Pokemon that appeal to the widest audience while keeping into consideration the balance of the battle system.
Pokémon Home is releasing this year we assume? Probably within a month of Sword & Shield. It is seemingly a one-way system, where if you transfer Pokémon from Bank/Go/Let's Go etc to Home and it is permanently there, to send to Sword & Shield. Unfortunately, you transferred some Pokémon that can't ever be in Sword & Shield. Now, you have zero games that they can be used in, they're stuck in a storage box for a minimum of a year, probably two years if they go down the road of Let's Go one year followed by main series the next year. This is at least a bit concerning for a lot of people I'm sure, especially less savvy people who play the games and don't read up much on this kind of thing online.
Home is releasing in 2020 but you have a very valid point. Loads of people who don't read up online will be pissed when they find out their Pokémon are in limbo and they have to keep paying to avoid them being deleted.
I think a safer cop-out would have been to delay the release of Home until they'd finished all of the models, making it so we're forced to just use the Switch games as a standalone for a longer time. Fans would know the service is coming, but think it isn't ready yet.
I think everyone would have been fine with that, but the reduction in Pokémon is intentional on their part and seems to be the case for every game from now on. Slim possibility of them changing their mind once they see the fallout from the Home launch and people requesting refunds/asking to be able to take their Pokémon back to Bank/previous games as they didn't know they would end up stuck with nowhere to go.
 

Havak

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@Damien I agree for the most-part, but I think it's possible that as long as they use the same engine, models, and animations for every future Switch-based main series game then they have no excuse to not allow us to be able to obtain everything post-game. I assume we will see 500~ species in Sword & Shield? Probably something akin to half of all Pokémon (once factoring in different variations of the same ones). If they can manage that for this game, then they only have to stick to roughly the same amount of work for the next game. But, the key point would be that the 50% of things they had to cut are actually available to use now because they already did it. It isn't about the main story of the game giving you access to these, it's about the post-game obviously. I would be absolutely fine if you had to complete the Galar 'Dex and complete some other challenges before you could even use the Pokémon Home features with your games for example.

I guess my point is that by the time the sequels to Sword & Shield come out, they should theoretically be able to put every Pokémon in post-game. If they choose not to, they are doing exactly that. Not giving it us because they don't want to. It won't be a resourcing issue.
 
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Snowjoe

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The more I think about it the less I’m bothered, personally I would have kept all my Pokemon in the home app anyway so it won’t change a lot for me.

If anything it might encourage me to start a proper team from scratch in the new game
 

Havak

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The more I think about it the less I’m bothered, personally I would have kept all my Pokemon in the home app anyway so it won’t change a lot for me.

If anything it might encourage me to start a proper team from scratch in the new game
I am also in this (seemingly) minority, but I can fully understand the other side of the argument.

The collection aspect is probably one of the biggest draws to the Pokémon games and lifelong fans knowing they can't ever see their National Pokédex in this game saying xxx/xxx is probably one of the biggest disappointments they could have.

For a lot of people though, it's probably just a 'meh' reaction. The difference is, most of these people won't be voicing any opinion on social media.
 

Earthquake

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It's an interesting situation. Personally I couldn't be arsed to collect 1000's of them, and power creep has ruined half of the pokemon in early gens that were useful, but not special.

Of course, guaranteed a buch of my faves won't make the cut and I'll rage at the world a tad.
 

syrian_scholes

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I just don't see what the huge problem is, it is what it is and people need to learn to accept not everything goes their way, as long as it's a good game then just enjoy it the way it is, seeing the thread on Resetera, for a site that complain about every single "social" issue in gaming they sure are being vile about it.
 

Havak

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Yeah, I see a lot of people saying they won't be buying the games for this reason which I think is stupid (although I expect most people saying this will change their mind). All this is going to do is make you miss out on what otherwise will be fantastic games it seems.
 

Snowjoe

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They’ll end up buying it anyway people always do.

What a lot of them on Reddit don’t seem to understand is the amount of people who complete a living dex or breed competitive Pokemon make up a tiny portion of the player base in reality and there are millions of peoolw that just want to play Pokemon.

A lot of them seem to have the attitude that they can play the Let’s Go games as if these people who don’t want what they want are some sort of casual children.
 

Havak

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Surely most people play to collect the full pokemon?

I mean isn't the catchphrase of the series 'Gotta catch em all'.
That hasn't been a catchphrase involved with Pokémon for a long time now. I think they actually dropped it in 2002 when Ruby & Sapphire released, since until FireRed & LeafGreen came out in 2004 you actually couldn't catch 'em all. But after that point, you basically needed to own so many games to be able to obtain everything. Eg. Without trading with friends, you'd need Ruby, Sapphire, FireRed, LeafGreen, Diamond, and Pearl along with visiting 'events' and using online downloads to collect everything in Gen 4. It has been similar to this ever since, so I think they dropped it for this reason as it can get quite complicated if you aren't someone who has stored their Pokémon on the various services over the years, you'd have to trade a hell of a lot or buy so many games etc.

However, you are right in saying that a massive amount of the fanbase is hellbent on that 'completionist' aspect of the game, as shown in the number of complaints.
 

Maagge

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They’ll end up buying it anyway people always do.

What a lot of them on Reddit don’t seem to understand is the amount of people who complete a living dex or breed competitive Pokemon make up a tiny portion of the player base in reality and there are millions of peoolw that just want to play Pokemon.

A lot of them seem to have the attitude that they can play the Let’s Go games as if these people who don’t want what they want are some sort of casual children.
Yeah the people talking about Pokémon on Reddit already make up a small proportion of the total fan base. Furthermore, not all of those there will bother about catching every single pokémon. So it really is a (loud) minority getting their knickers in a twist.

Personally I've never bothered about completing the National dex or anything. I just like to play the games and go through with a different team each time.
 

Minkaro

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I’ve just started playing White, because I’m right up to date, and I’ve not seen a single Pokemon that I recognise. It’s cool though, I like being able to put together a fresh team. I’m hoping Sword and Shield will have that sort of feel, of having to learn about them again.
 

Alex99

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I’ve just started playing White, because I’m right up to date, and I’ve not seen a single Pokemon that I recognise. It’s cool though, I like being able to put together a fresh team. I’m hoping Sword and Shield will have that sort of feel, of having to learn about them again.
Black and White had an entire new set of pokemon and you only saw older gen pokemon in the post game. Probably my favourite pokemon experience after gen 1 as a kid.
 

syrian_scholes

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I’ve just started playing White, because I’m right up to date, and I’ve not seen a single Pokemon that I recognise. It’s cool though, I like being able to put together a fresh team. I’m hoping Sword and Shield will have that sort of feel, of having to learn about them again.
White and Black are my favorite Pokemon games, hope you enjoy them.
 

Havak

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Black & White and Ruby & Sapphire were some of my favourites for sure. They got a lot of hate from a lot of people for some reason, but I honestly preferred the 'forced to use new Pokémon' thing. Ruby & Sapphire introduced 135 new Pokémon with the 'dex only having 200~, which was excellent. Black & White went one step further with 150~ new Pokémon and no access to any older ones until the post-game, great stuff. I'm hopeful that Galar is more like these two for Sword & Shield, with hopefully most of the older Pokémon starting to appear in the Wild Areas (or not unlocking some of the Wild Areas until you're the Champion). I think we will see well in excess of 300 older Pokémon in Sword & Shield though, with a mixture of them being available during and after the main story.
 

Maagge

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From watching the Treehouse gameplay video I think it looks good. Although I would have liked to see more scenarios, them battling a trainer, visiting a town etc. Also I felt like the wild area was slightly overpopulated in terms of pokémon. Anyone else felt like that?
The raid was also slower than I expected but I'm guessing the players took their time for the sake of the audience.
 

syrian_scholes

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Anyone ever did an Eevee team run? I think I'm going to do it on my 2nd playthrough after explore new gen pokemon on the first run.
 

el3mel

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Black & White and Ruby & Sapphire were some of my favourites for sure. They got a lot of hate from a lot of people for some reason, but I honestly preferred the 'forced to use new Pokémon' thing. Ruby & Sapphire introduced 135 new Pokémon with the 'dex only having 200~, which was excellent. Black & White went one step further with 150~ new Pokémon and no access to any older ones until the post-game, great stuff. I'm hopeful that Galar is more like these two for Sword & Shield, with hopefully most of the older Pokémon starting to appear in the Wild Areas (or not unlocking some of the Wild Areas until you're the Champion). I think we will see well in excess of 300 older Pokémon in Sword & Shield though, with a mixture of them being available during and after the main story.
I never understood why gen 5 got that much hate. For me BW and B2W2 were the first Pokemon games to try something new with how the story goes, and the ending of BW was a great surprise for me. I enjoyed the hell out of them.
 

Havak

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I never understood why gen 5 got that much hate. For me BW and B2W2 were the first Pokemon games to try something new with how the story goes, and the ending of BW was a great surprise for me. I enjoyed the hell out of them.
Yeah, they were definitely top tier games for me. I think I'd have BW2 just a level below despite the improvements. I understand why they added old Pokémon during the story mode the second time around so it was more different, but I think I'd have preferred them to stick with the Unova only Pokémon again. It was interesting to see Pokémon attempt direct sequels to games though and it definitely worked. I'd probably rank games a bit like this:

S: Emerald, Platinum, Black/White
A: Black2/White2, X/Y, HeartGold/SoulSilver, Ruby/Sapphire, Crystal
B: FireRed/LeafGreen, Diamond/Pearl, Yellow, OmegaRuby/AlphaSapphire
C: Gold/Silver, UltraSun/UltraMoon, Red/Blue
D: Sun/Moon, Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee

Judging from this, almost all the time I think remakes enhance the original enough to make them better and that the third/sequel is almost always the best version. Black/White2 being an exception in terms of sequels despite me thinking they are very close in quality. The other anomaly is me thinking OmegaRuby & AlphaSapphire were worse than Ruby/Sapphire despite the obvious improvements. The fact that Emerald exists probably sways this even further however. I know some might find it strange to see Red/Blue so low as they're what started it off and they were way ahead of their time at release, but I still think the evolution of the series has shown enough to surpass these games and not just because of the advances in technology. A lot of my opinion is also based on how much I enjoyed the competitive metagame at the time, as that's what I spent most of my time doing when playing Pokémon - battling.
 

Damien

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Ugh, my 3DS XL has stopped charging and won't turn on. I've got an old 3DS but I can't access Pokemon Bank due to the stupid rule that you can only have one device per NNID and that is tied up on the broken 3DS XL which I can't turn on to unlink.
 

Di Maria's angel

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Yeah, they were definitely top tier games for me. I think I'd have BW2 just a level below despite the improvements. I understand why they added old Pokémon during the story mode the second time around so it was more different, but I think I'd have preferred them to stick with the Unova only Pokémon again. It was interesting to see Pokémon attempt direct sequels to games though and it definitely worked. I'd probably rank games a bit like this:

S: Emerald, Platinum, Black/White
A: Black2/White2, X/Y, HeartGold/SoulSilver, Ruby/Sapphire, Crystal
B: FireRed/LeafGreen, Diamond/Pearl, Yellow, OmegaRuby/AlphaSapphire
C: Gold/Silver, UltraSun/UltraMoon, Red/Blue
D: Sun/Moon, Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee

Judging from this, almost all the time I think remakes enhance the original enough to make them better and that the third/sequel is almost always the best version. Black/White2 being an exception in terms of sequels despite me thinking they are very close in quality. The other anomaly is me thinking OmegaRuby & AlphaSapphire were worse than Ruby/Sapphire despite the obvious improvements. The fact that Emerald exists probably sways this even further however. I know some might find it strange to see Red/Blue so low as they're what started it off and they were way ahead of their time at release, but I still think the evolution of the series has shown enough to surpass these games and not just because of the advances in technology. A lot of my opinion is also based on how much I enjoyed the competitive metagame at the time, as that's what I spent most of my time doing when playing Pokémon - battling.
As a kid, Gen 2 was always my favourite. I had absolutely no idea that you could travel to Kanto before hand. And, in my opinion, thats the best feature present in any Pokemon game I've played (Gen 4 being the last time I properly played). It had a pretty cool story and really did well to develop on its predecessor.
 

Cloud7

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What’s the general consensus of the caf on the national dex being cut? Personally I don’t mind since I stopped transferring Pokémon up the generations a long time ago, and while I will miss some of my older favorites being in the game, I always had a tendency to default to Pokémon I knew and was comfortable with, so I don’t mind being made to use the newer ones.
 

syrian_scholes

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What’s the general consensus of the caf on the national dex being cut? Personally I don’t mind since I stopped transferring Pokémon up the generations a long time ago, and while I will miss some of my older favorites being in the game, I always had a tendency to default to Pokémon I knew and was comfortable with, so I don’t mind being made to use the newer ones.
I don't mind it at all, I love the new stuff in the games.

I do think we'll see bad user scores on Metacritic because of it though.
 

Havak

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Not having gen2 top tier :houllier:
I played through Silver and Crystal again not too long ago, the games were rushed and even Iwata admittedly he had to code Kanto in by himself last minute to get it in. HG/SS were great remakes. I've just never been a huge fan of Gen2 despite playing every Pokemon game on release and putting an extensive amount of time into them.
 

syrian_scholes

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I played through Silver and Crystal again not too long ago, the games were rushed and even Iwata admittedly he had to code Kanto in by himself last minute to get it in. HG/SS were great remakes. I've just never been a huge fan of Gen2 despite playing every Pokemon game on release and putting an extensive amount of time into them.
I agree with you, the nostalgia around them make them better but other than the 2 legendaries there's nothing great about those games, maybe Cyndaquil but that's it.

Edit: And Heracross, I love Heracross.
 
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Havak

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I agree with you, the nostalgia around them make them better but other than the 2 legendaries there's nothing great about those games, maybe Cyndaquil but that's it.

Edit: And Heracross, I love Heracross.
Yeah, looking back at the Pokemon released in Gen 2 there really aren't that many that would be close to making my list of favourites.

Tyranitar is one of my all-time favourites, along with Lugia and while Ho-Oh isn't really a favourite of mine but it's very iconic and one of the stand-out Pokemon. Heracross and Scizor are excellent and definitely some of the best Bug-type designs ever. My only other favourite from Gen 2 is Quagsire for some reason. The rest I could really take of leave and wouldn't mind if they are mostly culled from Sword/Shield. The starters weren't terrible in terms of design, but compared with the others I think they are definitely below average and in terms of usability in battles, they are quite awful. I'll mention Espeon and Umbreon as well though, while I'm not particularly a fan of Eevee and its evolutions, they are probably the best two. But yeah, looking at the rest of the Pokemon, there's a lot to be desired and when you really evaluate it, it's hard to argue the designs have declined throughout the series when you see most of Johto's offerings.

Gen 2 did give some great things to the franchise such as breeding, but I think that was something that would have eventually found its way into the games anyway. The big problem was the insistence on Baby Pokemon though. I get that at the time it made sense to have some new additions to evolution lines and more reason behind breeding, but in the grand scheme of things Baby Pokemon bring nothing to the games. They are just a way to add numbers to the Pokedex whilst being able to add a Pokemon based off another's design (arguably an excuse to be less creative). I guess this is evidenced by Baby Pokemon basically being ignored since the Gen 5 reboot that they are one of the things Gen 2 gave us which are pointless.

I think being able to visit Kanto again is the only argument I hear for why Gen 2 is the pinnacle of the series for most fans, but when you consider there was very little point to it, it's hard for me to take that argument on board. Collecting the 16 Badges basically allowed you to go and face Red which is of course cool, but I think it's not enough of a reason to be collecting 16 Badges. I much preferred Emeralds Battle Frontier as post-game content as it remains the most challenging thing ever in a Pokemon game. IMO this is why Emerald and Platinum are the absolute peak of Pokemon games and I hope this new gen starting with Sword/Shield can go in that direction again.

Also, I think with Gen 3 adding 135 new monsters, Gen 4 with 107 (along with evolutions of older Pokemon making most of them cooler and more viable) and Gen 5 adding a further 151 entirely, they all brought better designs and more monsters worth collecting than Gen 2 did. They also added better mechanics and QoL features for my money, especially double battles which became the best way to fight IMO (Pokemon Company agreeing as it's what they use for official tournaments).

All that said, I don't dislike Gen 2 at all. Game Freak hasn't made a bad main series Pokemon game, but there is quite a distance between something I'd give an 8.5 like Gold/Silver and a 10 like Emerald.
 

Earthquake

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Tyranitar is one of my all-time favourites,
Good man! One of mine too, albeit I'm not a major fan newer generations with Sand Stream as it makes it not a creature you can just pop into a balanced team(I mean, I guess in game/story because it's almost always piss easy).
I also love Murkrow despite it being useless and Houndour/doom. The latter being another example of bad design in that it was one of the few really new pokemon, and was shoved in a single grass patch in Kanto, only available at night, that most would just pass by. Feraligatr was my fave starter, and another example of a misfire, a physical water pokemon before the split, but of course that was an issue with many pokemon every gen until the split.
 

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Not having gen2 top tier :houllier:
They were great in their day but now since we have a far, far better remake there's no reason to play them any longer so they'll fall off from the ranking a little bit. I don't put Gen 1 or 2 in my ranking of Pokemon games any longer thanks to their remakes.
 

altodevil

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Fair comments. HG/SS is a great game. Think Pokemon themselves, the designs, peaked with gen 2 and got worse for me. Although I know that opinion is a bit derided by fans of Pokemon.