I was talking about the half of football. I've no doubt he can push it past a winger at times but I've seen nothing to suggest he would be a real attacking threat. Don't think I've ever seen him cross a ball.
Aaron Wan-Bissaka | The Ornacle speaks: It is done.
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Don't go basing opinions on one half of u21 football. Maddison hasn't been great and he made most chances in league last season.
AWB is a top player in the making.
AWB is a top player in the making.
Maybe because his dribbling was often done while palace were on counter and it tends to catch the opposition unaware as no one expects crystal palace fullback to attack but in a possession based setup, he won't be able to pull it off.
It’s madness to make conclusion about the player based on half of football.
I think I guessed that’s what you were suggesting.
Or may be because when he was young he used to play as a winger so it’s his nature that he can dribble or take on players.
What?
He was sent back from his loan, remember?
Pushing forward well in the second half.
Calm down. Nobody is doing that.
I like his aggression and attitude to winning the ball and it’s something we miss all over the pitch. But his bizarrely good attacking “stats” don’t tally up with what I’ve seen with my own eyes. Everything I’ve seen from him seems very basic and a little clumsy. Saying that, pace and power combined with decent decision making in the final third can take you a long way
And your point is?
What are these? Haven't really followed the thread that closely. "Take-ons" or something more meaningful
He reminds me a bit of Shaw. He’s fast, strong, and good in a one on one, but like Shaw I think he’s just lacking that guile and finesse in his play.
He’s absolutely an improvement on what we have, and will likely become a good player, but I don’t think anything more than that. Again, which I don’t mean as a slight.
He’s absolutely an improvement on what we have, and will likely become a good player, but I don’t think anything more than that. Again, which I don’t mean as a slight.
I was just letting you know.
That's what I believe. Sure, the best attacking players have an innate sense of how to beat a man, awareness of space on the field, or ability to play a killer pass. But, in my opinion, defending is such an innate skill - the timing and senses required, as well as knowing where to be on the pitch to cover space before a pass is even played - that I'd rather take a rock solid defensive player and set him to work on his body feints and crossing technique than take a natural born attacker and expect he'll learn how to defend well.
Take Valencia for example - great old fashioned winger in his day, who had average success as a converted fullback due to his physical ability, but was often found out for lack of positional awareness and generally horrible sense for when to tackle and when to back off his man.
Even if AWB will never be as naturally gifted going forward as someone like TAA, it is objectively true that he could improve his crossing ability solely by spending countless hours on the training ground working on his technique - crossing is a skill like free kicks, in that way.
Maybe this is just personal bias from my own experience - played winger for the first 18 years of my life, converted to wing back for the last 5-6 years of my competitive playing career, now play casual co-ed leagues because my knees are gone - but high level defending is a much harder skill to teach than certain attacking skills that would round out his game nicely.
Letting me know for something that is not related to my post & our discussion.
You really know how to waste people’s time.Yeah basically. I don’t really know what a take on entails in the stats I’ve seen but he’s right up there with all the other players you’d expect to be there.
@UNITED ACADEMY
What are you on about? Are we not allowed comment on their performances and develop an opinion as we watch them.
What do you think scouts do? Weirdo
What are you on about? Are we not allowed comment on their performances and develop an opinion as we watch them.
What do you think scouts do? Weirdo
He's still not worth 50mil though, let alone 70mil
I never argued as much.
Interesting. I feel exactly the opposite to be honest. We see a lot of players moving back the pitch during there careers but very few moving forward.
Maybe Bale but he was born to be an attacker.
Making comment & opinion about player’s half time performance is fine. But you used the price tag to make conclusions that he’s not worth the money, it is an unjustified comment for just half time performance.
£50m is tagged based on one season performance.
He's never been worth it. Today hasn't done anything to change my opinion.
I agree the trend in modern football is to see attacking players move back - no argument there. But those players who move back generally are not very good defenders. They just happen to play in systems where their teams are ball-dominant and they aren't asked to do much hard defending, rather they are expected to join in as additional attackers and provide width when the "inverted wingers" cut in on their favored foot.
It all depends on what you want out of our fullbacks, to be honest, and what kind of system we plan on playing. AWB is not yet the kind of player who will come in and be an immediate boost on the attacking side of things, but based on how leaky our defense was last year I'd rather bring in a solid defender and hope AWB has the tenacity and work ethic to put in the hours on the training ground working on his crossing and passing ability. On the other hand, if we plan on playing LVG-type possession football, AWB would indeed be a massive waste of funds. Based on what OGS has said, though, we're planning on building a solid base and countering quickly. I think AWB would be a decent fit for that kind of scheme.
Best defensive stats of any RB in the PL. He is worth it and more. Did you see our defence last season? Now try and imagine it this year only Young is another year older.
A counter attacking style still needs attacking fullbacks. Liverpool is an example.
Another positive run. Picked out Mount who should have done better.
50m is based on one season performance and that’s why I said It’s madness to make conclusion based on today’s half time performance.
Hope we sign him. He's not played well tonight though.
I'm absolutely fine with signing Wan-Bissaka. He will be a solid defender and perhaps can improve the other side. There are no guarantees on that. Good defenders are always worth having. If we ever get back into late stages of the CL for example they are worth their weight in gold.
Can't believe there's no interest on the best RB in the League bar none, with potential world class.
This is a weird one. A player being good in attacking doesn't mean he's able going forward as many as he can, but more like what he can do when he's on attacking position. There's nothing to do with having a good CB or not.
True, no argument there. Still, I'd rather have a defender who might improve his crossing than an attacking fullback who can't defend. Especially if we don't drastically improve our central defense and holding midfield options. Liverpool can only play such sharp counter-attacking football because they are building from a solid defensive base. Their fullbacks can bomb forward with nary a care because they know they've got VVD and co. covering their backs.
The most essential aspect of counter-attacking football is being able to win the ball back efficiently and before it enters the danger areas - I'd rather start with solid defenders and improve our attackers (Liverpool also has Salah, Mane, and Firmino bombing forward on the counter - not something to discount) before worrying about having ultra-proficient attacking fullbacks. That's just my personal preference, however.
True, and agreed.
TBH it's exactly the opposite. Attacking fullbacks have learned to be more defensively sound, but all were flair players to begin with.
I'm struggling to come up with even one example of defensive full back that improved much his attacking game later on in his career.
Andy Robertson. Contributed feck all offensively at Hull, I think he is not bad going forward now.
This. I've also mentioned this point earlier.
Our squad truly lack of any efficient and proactive ball winners even from our defenders!
Been impressed, get the deal done Woody ya mug!
You're more than entitled to your opinion, but I think that view is shaped by what fullbacks have been asked to do in the last 5-10 years. Gone are the days when someone like Neville - never the most explosive attacker - would be the archetypal fullback. Maybe the game is truly moving toward flair players at outside back, but I would be shocked if we don't see some regression to the mean, where a fullback's defending is prized as highly as attacking ability.
To your second point: I would consider Lahm as a defender first, who improved in the attack as he got older. Javier Zanetti as well, although he never contributed as much to the attack as many modern defenders. Ashley Cole, from my memory (although it's been a long time since he was relevant, and I only tangentially followed his exploits at Arsenal) started out as a rock solid defender and became more and more of a wing back as he entered his peak.
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