Great transfer for Real but what a circus.
Cristiano Ronaldo : The Juventus Chapter | Fin
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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Think he's down around Saint Tropez.
Lovely family
First Michael Jordan and now Obikwelu. Not bad company to spend his holidays
He trained with Francis when they were at Sporting. For those who think he only started to show this things because he is narcissist, well he is obsessed with training since he is 11 or 12. By the way, Francis is one of the best human beings that represented our club. A truly great athlete.
First Michael Jordan and now Obikwelu. Not bad company to spend his holidays
So what did he clock in at for the 100m run? Anyone thinks he's capable of under 11 sec?
No chance these days. Maybe an 11:xx in his early to mid 20s.
The stories you hear about Ronaldo training at Sporting are insane. He used to sneak into the gym at night so he could train more than everyone else
Anyways, great to see them together again. Obikwelu is arguably the most beloved portuguese athlete ever. He was homeless at one point and then went on to achieve greatness, I don't remember all the details but he has a truly amazing life story. Still holds the european record in 100 meters.
In an alternate scenario, imagine if we hadn't signed Alexis Sanchez and he instead opted to join City. The following Summer Transfer Window do you think we would of pushed to try and bring back Cristiano Ronaldo? You have to take into account we wouldn't of had a "marque signing" that season and the number seven shirt would of remained available. Also the lure of the captaincy might of been offered to him as well to try and persuade him to rejoin the club if we did decide to pursue a deal. Anyway do you think this scenario would of been likely? I also wonder how things might of went had this actually happened.
Obikwelu story is actually one of those stories that can restore some faith in humanity even to the most pessimistic. The people who helped him did it because he was a good person, nobody expected him to become one of the greatest athletes of his generation worldwide.The stories you hear about Ronaldo training at Sporting are insane. He used to sneak into the gym at night so he could train more than everyone else
Anyways, great to see them together again. Obikwelu is arguably the most beloved portuguese athlete ever. He was homeless at one point and then went on to achieve greatness, I don't remember all the details but he has a truly amazing life story. Still holds the european record in 100 meters.
He still compeets by the way. He won the veterans world cup this year.
There's nothing interesting whatsoever in the background. "The View" for Ronaldo is Ronaldo himself. Ronaldo is more obsessed with Ronaldo than anyone on this forum will ever be, and that includes Cal?.
If we had signed him, we’d definitely be preparing for a CL campaign and signing De Ligt.
Already posted in the current events thread.
no, Pele was absolutely critical in 2 of his 3 WC wins. If you can't even get those basic, well documented facts right then you probably shouldn't form such a strong opinion...Pele's "overrated" in the sense that every single great player in history is overrated, because we live in a weird world where people appreciate different things differently. Ronaldo's overrated because millions of avid fans love his style significantly more than the average fan. Likewise for Messi, Maradona and everyone else. If you only pay attention to the avid fans, the loudest voices, then he can't be anything but overrated.
At the end of the day Pele's remarkable combination of physique and technique puts him out there as one of the most talented players of all time, and that will always be so. His storybook achievements, bursting onto the scene as an irrepressible teenage individualist in '58 and fading from the scene as the cerebral orchestrator in magnificent colour in' 70, and setting goal records left, right and centre in between, will put him right at the top of the list for many for a long time to come.
For others, he can't be at the top of the list because he's old and old things are worse. It's a different perspective driven by different values, not some great conspiracy of idiocy that will be blown apart by some idiot on YouTube. I'm sure there's stupid videos portraying Ronaldo as Gerd Muller filling his boots in a pub league too.
Excellent post.
Pele's "overrated" in the sense that every single great player in history is overrated, because we live in a weird world where people appreciate different things differently. Ronaldo's overrated because millions of avid fans love his style significantly more than the average fan. Likewise for Messi, Maradona and everyone else. If you only pay attention to the avid fans, the loudest voices, then he can't be anything but overrated.
At the end of the day Pele's remarkable combination of physique and technique puts him out there as one of the most talented players of all time, and that will always be so. His storybook achievements, bursting onto the scene as an irrepressible teenage individualist in '58 and fading from the scene as the cerebral orchestrator in magnificent colour in' 70, and setting goal records left, right and centre in between, will put him right at the top of the list for many for a long time to come.
For others, he can't be at the top of the list because he's old and old things are worse. It's a different perspective driven by different values, not some great conspiracy of idiocy that will be blown apart by some idiot on YouTube. I'm sure there's stupid videos portraying Ronaldo as Gerd Muller filling his boots in a pub league too.
Sure but no. The standard of football then was downright poor. Many of the Games where he scored double or more goals in the game ended 8-0,10-1 etc.
Pele's "overrated" in the sense that every single great player in history is overrated, because we live in a weird world where people appreciate different things differently. Ronaldo's overrated because millions of avid fans love his style significantly more than the average fan. Likewise for Messi, Maradona and everyone else. If you only pay attention to the avid fans, the loudest voices, then he can't be anything but overrated.
At the end of the day Pele's remarkable combination of physique and technique puts him out there as one of the most talented players of all time, and that will always be so. His storybook achievements, bursting onto the scene as an irrepressible teenage individualist in '58 and fading from the scene as the cerebral orchestrator in magnificent colour in' 70, and setting goal records left, right and centre in between, will put him right at the top of the list for many for a long time to come.
For others, he can't be at the top of the list because he's old and old things are worse. It's a different perspective driven by different values, not some great conspiracy of idiocy that will be blown apart by some idiot on YouTube. I'm sure there's stupid videos portraying Ronaldo as Gerd Muller filling his boots in a pub league too.
Garrincha was the best player in the team in 62 and the reason they won and in 1970 he scored 4 goals but still was not the best player on the team that year either. 400 of his goals were played across friendlies against low level opposition as well.
What puts him up there was that for his time he was the best player which is fair to say. His popularity brought more interest to the sport and he was showcased across the word.
Now I am saying he is overrated in terms of him being the GOAT which is he is not but he is OBVIOUSLY top 5 player of all time. You will struggle to name many top defenders in that time. At the same time Fernando Peyroteo was banging 2 goals a game and still holds the best goal to game ratio of all time. But many on this forum probably don’t know him as his name was not spoken as much at all. Defense in that time was non existent and as with everything things get better over time.
You can basically call him the grandfather of football and he is a obvious legend. But people put him in the top 3 all time just because his name is Pele.
In the end of the day it is just opinions and this is mine which I explained why I felt this way.
Yeah. Pele is OBVIOUSLY top 5, but DEFINITELY not top 3, VERY LIKELY top 4.53515, because a lot of people on the Caf don't know Peyroteo, who retired 9 years before Pele played his first world cup. Also Pele is really overrated, because he only won three world cups and scored a goal a game on that stage, whereas the real goat Ronaldo scored 7 in 17. BREAKING: the game was different 60 years ago.
These goat discussions are pointless to begin with, but that video argues takes the cake of stupidity (guys he's overrated as a player, because Scolari said decades after his retirement that he doesn't understand [modern] football, also youtube comments say so as well!!!). The guy probably creates flat earth content when he's not to busy producing garbage football clickbait.
These goat discussions are pointless to begin with, but that video argues takes the cake of stupidity (guys he's overrated as a player, because Scolari said decades after his retirement that he doesn't understand [modern] football, also youtube comments say so as well!!!). The guy probably creates flat earth content when he's not to busy producing garbage football clickbait.
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So are you actually going to contribute to the debate or?
Go look it up. 400 goals in friendlys out of his “1000”. Many game he played in ended in obscene score lines.
In his World Cup wins Garincha by far in 62 carries Brazil to the WC win and in 70 players like jaoerzinho (night have spelt that wrong” had just as much a impact. He never won a golden ball and scored 4 goals in 1970 and 6 in 58. “Ronaldo has 7 in 17 sure fair play “got me their” but Pele played in by far the best national team with with the best players but that is neither here nor there because I am only talking about pele.
Also in Brazil many people regard Garincha just as talented if not more then Pele. This is people of his own country.
Credit to Pele because he knew how to market the Pele brand and still does to this day he came at a time where the sport was very much a Virgin and there was no top level competition. He would take half of the money santos made in exhibition games to promote him.
I get it his name is shoved down people throat the moment you get into football and I can understand why. But IMO he ain’t top 3.
Cant believe we didnt sign him last year. Made so much sense in so many ways. He should have returned to us.
Yeah, I remember feeling adamantly against it. But we'd definitely have finished top 4, there'd have been a global revenue surge on top of the regular profits, we'd be at least forcing whatever major talent is available to consider coming to Utd, Pogba would be loving it etc etc.
HOWEVER: Mourinho, plus Ronaldo was never really interested. "Going back" is a sad late stage journeyman's move and he wants to be actively competing with the elite aged 40.
The obvious flaw in your analysis is reducing Pele's contribution to his goals totals. If you watched him in 1970 you'd realise why. It's clear to anyone that his contribution went far beyond those 4 goals. It's weird you feel the need to form such strong opinions on things you know so little about. I know nothing about Peyroteo and I'm happy to defer to other people who know more.
Anyway, Ronaldo. He's great. Maybe not #1 but at least the #4.5 greatest player of all time.
I don't it would have worked, Juventus despite not an exciting to watch were more functionning as a team and clearly dominant in Italy (which would have played an important role for him as a way to fully focus on the CL). Ronaldo would have definitely helped us and he would have lifted the entire team but at the same time our core issues would remain the same. Lack of creativity, lack of quality crossing.
@SportingCP96 Fernando Peyroteo played well before Pele, he was a great goalscorer who played until 49, no European Cups then, Pele started playing on a era where there was the transition from the WM to 4/2/4 or 4/4/2.
Pelé played on the same era as Eusebio and he was with some distance the best player from his era.
Another thing, while it’s true a lot of his goals were against low level teams in Brazil, from that era was quite common not even the best Brazilian players when they played in Spain or Italy they were top players in Europe, just check Evaristo Macedo for Barcelona or Altafini in Italy.
Not to mention beside the Libertadores trophies Pelé also won 2 Intercontinental Cups in 1962 or 1963.
We can discuss if he is the best player ever, what we can’t say is that he only played against shit teams, South American teams from that era were on the same level if not better than the European teams, nothing like today.
Let Peyroteo out of this equation, if he played a couple of years later he had to be a Portuguese version of Puskas, maybe that.
Pelé played on the same era as Eusebio and he was with some distance the best player from his era.
Another thing, while it’s true a lot of his goals were against low level teams in Brazil, from that era was quite common not even the best Brazilian players when they played in Spain or Italy they were top players in Europe, just check Evaristo Macedo for Barcelona or Altafini in Italy.
Not to mention beside the Libertadores trophies Pelé also won 2 Intercontinental Cups in 1962 or 1963.
We can discuss if he is the best player ever, what we can’t say is that he only played against shit teams, South American teams from that era were on the same level if not better than the European teams, nothing like today.
Let Peyroteo out of this equation, if he played a couple of years later he had to be a Portuguese version of Puskas, maybe that.
Even in 1970 analysts and Brazilians themselves say Jaoerzinho was just as important as Pele in the 1970 tournament.
Now obviously I was not alive in 1970 so I did not watch him play live but that does not mean I cant form an opinion based on the information and research I did as a football fanatic. For his time he was the best and I am not arguing he is not one of the best but I am rather arguing he is not the best of all time if you look at everything he did detail per detail.
As I stated above many Brazilians who live in Brazil don't even regard Pele as the best Brazilian ever. Many say Garincha was just as good if not better.
He might well have been more important - so many crucial goals. However you need only look at the state the star-studded Brazil team were in during the 1970 WC qualifiers, before Pele came back to knit things together. What's remarkable about his performances then is that in spite of his individual brilliance, which was best shown on the world stage 12 years earlier, he was able to play the understated supporting role to enable Rivelino, Tostao and Jairzinho to play together. They couldn't make it work prior to that, despite having some very talented individuals taking Pele's place. Really, if you watched him in 1970 you wouldn't be in any doubt he was absolutely essential. And understated is a relative term - he played beautiful football, and had some incredible moments.
Garrincha was a man of the people, Pele was a god. Garrincha was a troubled soul and a flawed genius, Pele was the closest thing to perfection ever seen in Brazil (and for many people, the closest thing to perfection full stop). Garrincha was the mischievous trickster, Pele the master of simplicity. It's not hard to see why Garrincha's story and style resonates with many folks in Brazil more than Peles does. That's not to say it's an invalid opinion, but it doesn't make sense to scrutinise the reasons behind Pele's legacy while ignoring the reasons for his competitors. Garrincha's contribution in '62 was outrageous and his style was magical, and you can't help but swept away by the romanticism, and also the tragedy, of his story. So I completely understand why some would say he's better. In the same way I understand why many Portuguese folk would say Eusebio was better than Ronaldo - but I suspect your view isn't swayed by these people, in the same way some people's view on Garrincha's shouldn't. You can find other people's opinions to support your view for all kinds of things, and we can't ignore the fact our cognitive biases drive us to do exactly that. I welcome that difference in opinion - you're the one trying to disprove people's opinions on Pele, even people who've seen a lot more. That's just a bit odd.
Personally I think deciding who's the best out of di Stefano, Pele, Cruyff, Maradona and Messi is almost impossible, and I think I'd throw Beckenbauer and Ronaldo in the mix too. So it makes no sense trying to disprove people who put one of them 1st and one of them 2nd, IMO. The thing that makes it easier for you is you've not watched Pele. There's a shitload to read about him, no doubt, but we both know reading stories and looking at the facts is a pretty poor replacement for watching.
First off GREAT post as I enjoy these types of conversations and appreciate the time you took too write this.
As you said though it’s just an opinion I personally have, just as some may disagree or maybe agree. Now like I said I obviously never saw pele play and only have YouTube videos, other people’s views who have more knowledge and a whole bunch of reading material to go by. As you said watching is completely different then reading facts and stories and I can understand that. Like I said based on the things I saw and information I have read is why I have a difference in opinion to say the majority of people in terms of pele. His name is synonymous with football and I can understand why but I think there is enough to show why despite his importance to football he is not the greater player of all time but rather ONE of the greatest of all time.
In terms of the brilliance of Garincha I remember reading a quote that said. “Pele beat a man because he had too...Garincha did it because he wanted too” thus the brilliance and magic of Garincha. As you said he was a player of the people And while Pele was great at marketing the name and brand that is Pele, Garincha was not so nor did he care too.
As you said there is no point trying to disprove someone’s opinion on who is first or second but it’s fine to have a difference in opinion on it. I am sure there are people who have Messi as 1st, Pele as 1st, Maradona as 1st, Cristiano Ronaldo as 1st, hell I’ve even heard and had people say Cruyff was 1st. And to be fair they can make a strong case for either one of those guys.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-49168694
Tl;dr - juve agreed on contract that Ronaldo would play 45 minutes in a friendly in Korea. Nedved said 'sorry but he doesn't want to play. I can do nothing.' Fans got upset and started chanting 'Messi Messi'. Other fans are now suing damages for false advertisement and mental anguish.
Tl;dr - juve agreed on contract that Ronaldo would play 45 minutes in a friendly in Korea. Nedved said 'sorry but he doesn't want to play. I can do nothing.' Fans got upset and started chanting 'Messi Messi'. Other fans are now suing damages for false advertisement and mental anguish.
Mental anguish ?
Edit, quote here is better. A lawyer said:
"As for the mental anguish part, I'd like to say some of them are raucous fans, the real avid fans. So for them it is very painful because they love Ronaldo and want to protect him, but they can't, given the situation," he added.
Why would they sign that kind of contact?
Why would they sign and not commit!
Ronaldo is bigger than the club
When I was younger, Ibwas very fond of Garrincha. I loved Brazilian football, admired Ronaldinho and when I heard of Mané Garrincha, I watched every piece of footage I could find of him and even named myself after him in some forum IIRC.
With some distance I can't see how anyone could possibly choose him over Pelé though. My hipster 18 year old me, maybe, but apart from that? Not really. Garrincha wasn't only vastly inefficient - dribbling for the sake of it - his dribbles were also not even slightly as impressive as Pelé's. The latter dribbled whole teams and scored, he looked absolutely unstoppable. I watched lots of footage from the greats of that era - di Stefano, Puskas, Garrincha, ... - and they looked all impressive considering the time they played in but Pelé was different. As if you dropped a world class player from the modern era in the 50s/60s. He was the first to do what Maradona, Zico, Best, Messi, Ronaldo Lima etc. did decades after him.
Garrincha on the other hand, he was more of a dribbler like, I don't know, Figo or Ribery maybe. Get the ball out wide, dribble one, maybe two players and thencross it in or get into the box for some sneeky shot or pass. But he didn't just cut through defenses like otgers you'd consider among the best dribblers did - especially Pelé. I'd say, Pelé, Cruyff, Zico, Best, Maradona, R9 and Messi deserve to be in the discussion of who's the best dribbler in history but Garrincha? Not a chance IMO.
So in my book, Garrincha isn't even a better dribbler than Pelé - and that was his standout ability. Pelé on the other hand was a physical monster on top of that - something especialy CR7 fans should acknowledge. He was faster than anyone, could dribble whole teams through pace as well as skills, could head and was a great finisher from all over the pitch. And in his later days also a great playmaker. IMO you only find a similar skill set in 'prime' R9 who was never allowed to mature.
Was he the best ever though? Hard to say. Guys like Messi, R9, Maradona would probably be better if you'd drop them in the same era but a big reason why they would is because Pelé came before them and revolutionized football. He redefined what was possible. 'If I came across as great it' s because I was standing on the shoulders of giants' and all that.
Why doesn't he want to play when it is his job to do so? Imagine Pogba pulling this stunt and the whole world will be on him right after
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