Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Grande]

Norway

"I as a Norwegian"

Good then you know that Molde won the league in 2014 IIRC, two years after Ole left for Cardiff, with a far higher points total than Ole ever achieved.

NB. I should add that you are making a (normal) risk weighted assessment here. More on that later.

Appointment

" And anyone who then said ‘It’s obviously a bad idea, because they are not proven managers at the top level’ would have made fools of themselves."

No they would have been right.

A plane can fly on one engine but you would be best advised not to do so. The fact that planes have successfully flown with one engine is not proof that planes should be flown using just one engine.

I don't think you understand risk.

And (as tons of posters have pointed out)

i. Ceteris Paribus does not apply - for a start it is not the "same board" that has made the assessment. for a start we do have "some history" to compare.

ii. The demarcation is not "internal" vs. "external" appointment so grouping them together as you have done questionable. Being "internal" in and of itself is not sufficient qualification for the role.

That is why "what have you seen to justify your vigorous defence" is a normal question.

History

"History shows that both approaches can work, and both approaches can go south"

That doesn't imply what you think it implies.

You are effectively saying this,

"History shows that I can walk on the motorway or I can walk on the pavement and both approaches can go south.".

Or this,

"History shows you can pet a tabby cat and you can pet a tiger and both approaches can go south".

The question is not about whether it can go south, the question is about likelihood of doing so. And that measure should be in the aggregate based on a large number of samples.

I think you need to reread the post you answered to thoroughly again. You’ll evemtually find most of your points dealt with there, none of which are too televant to the simple point I made.

If you want me to tell you more about Molde’s development before, under, between and after Solskjær, I’ll be happy to provide you with a fuller picture.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

I wish they had brought this up a few years earlier. We knew it but the media have handily ignored it.

On the flip side, Adrian Durham also said Sanchez has been brilliant at the Copa and scored two goals, equalling his season total at United. He seemed to be implying it's Uniteds/Oles fault that he looks crap when playing for us.

Tim Vickery was on Monday night (much better show than Durham and I always like listening to Vickery talk about S American football) and he caveated Sanchez's performances/goals with the opposition/time in the game/quality of goals.

As usual Talk sport is the radio equivalent of internet clickbait, Durham particularly.....

.... but when I'm in the car, still can't help but tune in, just in case they say we've signed someone.

 

[Enigma_87]

Yes you are pointing to a lot of differences. You could also point to quite a few similarities. Neither are my point.

You portray Guardiolas position then as favourable to Solskjær’s now, if you wanted you could also find arguments that go the other way. But that wasn’t the point either.

You write some things that are plain wrong, and there are some things you left out. Which is also irrelevant to the point I made.

Which things are wrong? And what similarities do you see in Pep and Ole?

 

[Celoti23-81]

On the flip side, Adrian Durham also said Sanchez has been brilliant at the Copa and scored two goals, equalling his season total at United. He seemed to be implying it's Uniteds/Oles fault that he looks crap when playing for us.

Tim Vickery was on Monday night (much better show than Durham and I always like listening to Vickery talk about S American football) and he caveated Sanchez's performances/goals with the opposition/time in the game/quality of goals.

As usual Talk sport is the radio equivalent of internet clickbait, Durham particularly.....

.... but when I'm in the car, still can't help but tune in, just in case they say we've signed someone.

Tbf to Sanchez, I actually genuinely think he is a striker these days. As a matter of fact, didn't he score 30 plus goals for Arsenal 3 seasons ago playing as a free roaming striker!

 

[soaphroniscuss]

I think you need to reread the post you answered to thoroughly again. You’ll evemtually find most of your points dealt with there, none of which are too televant to the simple point I made.

If you want me to tell you more about Molde’s development before, under, between and after Solskjær, I’ll be happy to provide you with a fuller picture.

Clearly my rune deciphering talents are not up to scratch .

Regarding Molde, if you have anything to add to these two posts let me know.

http://www.redcafe.net/threads/ole-gunnar-solskjær-permanent-manager.446090/page-227#post-24249418

http://www.redcafe.net/threads/ole-gunnar-solskjær-permanent-manager.446090/page-227#post-24250471

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Great posts.

What’s your take on going forward. Players? Formations? Philosophy?

Cheers, i really appreciate it.

I don't have any preferences. When it comes to team sports, i value a logical, methodical and well-organized plan above everything else. Whether it's heavily based on possession or on the chaos of transitions or on soaking up the pressure and hitting on the counter, it doesn't matter much to me as long as it's done properly. One thing that is important though in modern football is the sense of control that derives from the purposeful possession of the ball (not the percentage but how a team uses the ball). We didn't have it under LvG -or rather, we had the illusion of it- because most of it was in our half of the pitch. Mourinho cared about it during his prime (different times though) but since his Real Madrid days he seems to be on a quest to prove to the world that you can be successful without it (and he's running out of good jobs). Ole... seems to understand the need for it (Lingard as a false #9 to crowd the midfield and shorten the distances between the lines, forwards occupying the spaces out-wide and keeping the opposition FBs in check which potentially freed up some space for Pogba in the midfield) but when we eventually ran out of tricks and the opposition managers found a way to even up the numbers in the midfield, we got screwed. Thus my frustration with the current renewals and the lack of movement in the market. The Spurs game summarizes Ole's time at United in a nutshell.

Take Real Madrid for example. Kroos & Modric are both excellent with the ball at their feet. The German can find an angle for a pass in a phone booth and the Croatian has a magnificent footballing brain. They provide possession. What they lack is runs in the opposition third and speed. What did Zidane do? Did he introduce a more aggressive attacking midfielder? No, he forced Casemiro in Real Madrid's starting xi. Although it seems absolutely normal nowadays, believe me when i say that if Benitez had tried to add a defensive player in the midfield, he would have been crucified on the spot. What Zidane achieved was securing his numbers in the midfield battle. The surging FBs would be the main chance creators (Real Madrid were the champions of crosses during his tenure) and their threat would not allow the opposition teams to crowd the midfield. As a result, Kroos and Modric dominated the midfield without the need to either rush forward or the need to always look behind their backs for gaps the don't have the pace to cover. Possession turns into control. Accommodated by Varane/Ramos' ability to defend both in the box and in a high line, this allowed RM to easily switch between various styles of play. I mentioned this because it's a fine example of a manager who used his reputation and good name among the fans to force a necessary change in the lineup.

The midfield is one thing. Working the spaces between the lines is another. We're absolutely dreadful at that and that's why i'm sceptical about Rashford and Martial both starting on the wings or about Lingard/Mata filling in with Ransford playing upfront. Lingard is poor on the ball and easily dispossessed when he can't find that bit of space to use the advantage his acceleration gives him. Mata is neither quick or physical and he can't beat/turn his marker, so he drops all the way deep into our half just to get on the ball. Rashford looks clueless without open space to run into and Martial is just frustrating. Son and Alli play a huge role in creating numerical advantages in the midfield for Spurs and they are more than capable to take advantage of the spaces Kane opens up with his movement. Mane & Salah wreak havoc in those areas on & off the ball, offensively & defensively. City are on a different level with having 5 players who can pose a threat in those spaces (2 CMs, 2 Wingers, 1 forward) and that's why the constantly pin down their opponents.

For the importance of a stable defensive line and the benefits of having FBs who can contribute in the attacking plays, i could write all night long and this is already a very long post. So, these two are my priorities. Establishing control in the midfield (with or without Pogba) and attacking threat coming from the half-spaces between the lines (the channels between the FBs and the CBs). The players depend on the style the manager wishes to implement.

 

[KetilOwren88]

Let’s also not forget that Lampard was a midfielder unlike Ole, so there’s a very high chance he has a much better natural understanding of the game. Here’s a quote by Drogba:

“Frank is the best midfield player that I played with, the most intelligent and efficient.”

It simply requires a different level of football intelligence to be able to play CM at the highest level. Based on just this, I predict that Lampard will be held in much higher regard as a manager in 3 years time than Ole.

Ole was extremely intelligent and brilliant reading the game and his opponents from the bench. That’s why he was so effective as a sub. He could also play in various positions, like he did when he took Beckham’s role as right midfielder.

 

[acnumber9]

Let’s also not forget that Lampard was a midfielder unlike Ole, so there’s a very high chance he has a much better natural understanding of the game. Here’s a quote by Drogba:

“Frank is the best midfield player that I played with, the most intelligent and efficient.”

It simply requires a different level of football intelligence to be able to play CM at the highest level. Based on just this, I predict that Lampard will be held in much higher regard as a manager in 3 years time than Ole.

It’s lucky Alex Ferguson wasn’t a striker then.

 

[No Idea For Nickname]

It’s lucky Alex Ferguson wasn’t a striker then.

Crap, can you imagine amount of trophies we would have won if he was midfielder.

Also, surprised that Drogba said nice things about Lampard, not like they played together. Ever.

 

[7even]

Cheers, i really appreciate it.

I don't have any preferences. When it comes to team sports, i value a logical, methodical and well-organized plan above everything else. Whether it's heavily based on possession or on the chaos of transitions or on soaking up the pressure and hitting on the counter, it doesn't matter much to me as long as it's done properly. One thing that is important though in modern football is the sense of control that derives from the purposeful possession of the ball (not the percentage but how a team uses the ball). We didn't have it under LvG -or rather, we had the illusion of it- because most of it was in our half of the pitch. Mourinho cared about it during his prime (different times though) but since his Real Madrid days he seems to be on a quest to prove to the world that you can be successful without it (and he's running out of good jobs). Ole... seems to understand the need for it (Lingard as a false #9 to crowd the midfield and shorten the distances between the lines, forwards occupying the spaces out-wide and keeping the opposition FBs in check which potentially freed up some space for Pogba in the midfield) but when we eventually ran out of tricks and the opposition managers found a way to even up the numbers in the midfield, we got screwed. Thus my frustration with the current renewals and the lack of movement in the market. The Spurs game summarizes Ole's time at United in a nutshell.

Take Real Madrid for example. Kroos & Modric are both excellent with the ball at their feet. The German can find an angle for a pass in a phone booth and the Croatian has a magnificent footballing brain. They provide possession. What they lack is runs in the opposition third and speed. What did Zidane do? Did he introduce a more aggressive attacking midfielder? No, he forced Casemiro in Real Madrid's starting xi. Although it seems absolutely normal nowadays, believe me when i say that if Benitez had tried to add a defensive player in the midfield, he would have been crucified on the spot. What Zidane achieved was securing his numbers in the midfield battle. The surging FBs would be the main chance creators (Real Madrid were the champions of crosses during his tenure) and their threat would not allow the opposition teams to crowd the midfield. As a result, Kroos and Modric dominated the midfield without the need to either rush forward or the need to always look behind their backs for gaps the don't have the pace to cover. Possession turns into control. Accommodated by Varane/Ramos' ability to defend both in the box and in a high line, this allowed RM to easily switch between various styles of play. I mentioned this because it's a fine example of a manager who used his reputation and good name among the fans to force a necessary change in the lineup.

The midfield is one thing. Working the spaces between the lines is another. We're absolutely dreadful at that and that's why i'm sceptical about Rashford and Martial both starting on the wings or about Lingard/Mata filling in with Ransford playing upfront. Lingard is poor on the ball and easily dispossessed when he can't find that bit of space to use the advantage his acceleration gives him. Mata is neither quick or physical and he can't beat/turn his marker, so he drops all the way deep into our half just to get on the ball. Rashford looks clueless without open space to run into and Martial is just frustrating. Son and Alli play a huge role in creating numerical advantages in the midfield for Spurs and they are more than capable to take advantage of the spaces Kane opens up with his movement. Mane & Salah wreak havoc in those areas on & off the ball, offensively & defensively. City are on a different level with having 5 players who can pose a threat in those spaces (2 CMs, 2 Wingers, 1 forward) and that's why the constantly pin down their opponents.

For the importance of a stable defensive line and the benefits of having FBs who can contribute in the attacking plays, i could write all night long and this is already a very long post. So, these two are my priorities. Establishing control in the midfield (with or without Pogba) and attacking threat coming from the half-spaces between the lines (the channels between the FBs and the CBs). The players depend on the style the manager wishes to implement.

Thanks!

Both Klopp and Guardiola prefers high pressing to force their opponents to make mistakes but then use different methods to create goal scoring opportunities. Both of them have a clear and visible philosophy where every player on every position have individual instructions how to work in their system. We need to do he same.

I don't think we can challenge the best teams without a clear philosophy. High pressing, possession in midfield and speed up front and on the flanks is from my perspective the way forward. To achieve that we need the right kind of players and that’s why Ole needs to be ruthless and clear out deadwood and players who don’t fit in our system.

 

[hobbers]

The way this window is unfolding I'm getting the distinct whiff of Ole just being a patsy to soak up the heat and backlash from what Woodward knew was going to be a summer of massive underinvestment.

Underspend, do crap, sack manager, wait for more tv money.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Happens with every new coach, these players are toxic and have been throwing managers under the bus for years to save themselves. Basically:

• New boss comes in.
  
• Gives everyone a chance to show him what they've got.
• Eventually the boss decides on who needs to go and who should stay.
• Players down tools and the coach is gone before they get the chance to sell either them or their buddies
  
• His replacement comes in, gives everyone the benefit of the doubt/fresh start and the cycle continues.

Exactly this. Which suits the owners to a tee.

I thought Ole said the fans had "probably seen the last of some of these players"?

Which ones?

Ole is a yes man. Moyes 2.0. and hellh be fired by Christmas with United in 10th or similar. Just in time for Ed to brief the gullible fans about big changes etc snd the season tickets will be renewed as per usual.

Pathetic.

 

[Revaulx]

I do not understand the Lampard criticism on account of what he's done, he's already a better manager than Ole in my opinion. We could very well find ourselves further behind the top 6 in the coming season. The aura around the club already resembles that of Moyes tenure. Can't believe how stupid the club are appointed Solskjaer. One thing Mourinho and Ole have in common is the lack of directive in coaching and instructions for the team no one has any idea what the vision is for next season. We haven't identified players who will contribute to a playing form, seems solskjaer just wants hard workers with zero brains in giving them a directive to win games on a counter attack.

His league record at Derby was worse than Gary Rowett’s the previous season. He had them playing some nice football early on, notably when they knocked us out of the League Cup, but they became a lot more pragmatic as the season wore on.

I’m far from convinced by Ole, but holding Lampard up as some sort of beacon of managerial excellence is absurd. If he does better than Ole next season, it will almost certainly be because Chelsea is a more resilient and less dysfunctional club than United.

 

[dwd]

Anyone else find it funny he seems to want only British players when he himself was a non-British player for us? And a Liverpool fan at that!

 

[Revaulx]

I do not understand the Lampard criticism on account of what he's done, he's already a better manager than Ole in my opinion. We could very well find ourselves further behind the top 6 in the coming season. The aura around the club already resembles that of Moyes tenure. Can't believe how stupid the club are appointed Solskjaer. One thing Mourinho and Ole have in common is the lack of directive in coaching and instructions for the team no one has any idea what the vision is for next season. We haven't identified players who will contribute to a playing form, seems solskjaer just wants hard workers with zero brains in giving them a directive to win games on a counter attack.

His league record was worse than Gary Rowett’s the previous season. He had them playing some nice football early on, notably when they knocked us out of the League Cup, but they became a lot more functional as the season wore on.

I’m far from convinced by Ole, but holding Lampard up as some sort of beacon of managerial excellence is absurd. If he does better than Ole next season, it will almost certainly be because Chelsea is a more resilient and less dysfunctional club than United.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Anyone else find it funny he seems to want only British players when he himself was a non-British player for us? And a Liverpool fan at that!

Haha, I honestly never even realized the ludicrousness of that!

 

[Greck]

Anyone else find it funny he seems to want only British players when he himself was a non-British player for us? And a Liverpool fan at that!

It's a gimmick that will sink his stay. Fergie's British core was helped by having 4 world class English players come from our academy at almost the same time. This almost never happens. Stuff like this is how you end up with Andy Carrol for 35mil. More likely to end up with 4 Tom cleverleys

 

[Sterling Archer]

Curious to see, at the end of the summer, how many players we've recruited talk about the manager as an appealing factor. Ole is not even an unknown, he's had a rather mixed bag of results across clubs. Is being a United hero enough draw?

 

[Grande]

Which things are wrong? And what similarities do you see in Pep and Ole?

The similarities I’m sure you could come up with quite a few yourself if you are interested. Or read some in the post you originally answered? As I said in both that post and in my follow-up: It’s irrelevant to the point I was making.

Regarding what things were wrong/missing, you wrote: ‘The youth players Ole worked in house are now 30 year olds.’

Most of the players of Ole worked with in his league winning reserves squad are now between 25 and 28. I’m sure you could name a couple of them if you really wanted.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I worry for next season with Ole under the helm. The window so far has done nothing to lessen those worries.

I think it has the potential to be a complete disaster.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

[QUOTE="Sterling Archer, post: 24320372, member: 103993"... ]the manager as an appealing factor.[/QUOTE]

It may be a potential factor, but I think it's being overstated.

How many managers out there are icons of the sort who are likely to attract players on the back of their personal status? And how many of them find themselves at clubs that aren't (also) attractive destinations for other reasons (big fan base, good money, good chances of competing for major trophies)?

Playing under Pep is something many would like, as such, I'm sure - and far less would be interested in playing under Ole, as such.

But how many of the former lot would still want to play under Pep if he went to a mid-table club? Or a penniless club, relatively speaking. Or a club that had a big "project" on its hand, rather than being a ready-made title contender?

 

[Hughes35]

Really feel sorry for Ole. If I was him, I would honestly resign on Transfer deadline day if we don't make some good signings.

I'd very publicly take Woodward to the cleaners. He will get another decent job I think.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

How many managers out there are icons of the sort who are likely to attract players on the back of their personal status?

I don't think it's personal status so much as managerial CV. Outside of United fans who really believes that Ole has the managerial chops to bring success back to United? It's a fecking huge job. Players want to win things and get paid - we can offer the latter, and the club has (on paper) the resources to bring the former...but is Ole really the man to preside over that? Highly doubtful. I can totally see why players that would have killed to play for United a year or two ago might give it second thoughts this summer - and Ole's rep plays a big part in that unfortunately.

 

[Enigma_87]

The similarities I’m sure you could come up with quite a few yourself if you are interested. Or read some in the post you originally answered? As I said in both that post and in my follow-up: It’s irrelevant to the point I was making.

Regarding what things were wrong/missing, you wrote: ‘The youth players Ole worked in house are now 30 year olds.’

Most of the players of Ole worked with in his league winning reserves squad are now between 25 and 28. I’m sure you could name a couple of them if you really wanted.

So what's wrong about that?

https://www.planetfootball.com/quic...-gunnar-solskjaers-man-utd-reserve-champions/

Ben Foster - 36 years old.
Rafael - 29 in 10-15 days.
Joe Dudgeon - 28 and a half.
Corry Evans - 29 in 1 month.
Ritchie de Laet - 30
Oliver Gill - 28 and a half
Oliver Norwood - 28
Rodrigo Possebon - 30
Cameron Stewart - 28
Macheda - 28 in 2 months.
Mame Biram Diouf - 31
Ron-Robert Zieler - 30
Scott Wootton - 28 in 3 months.
Gabriel Obertan - 30
Will Keane - 26
Pogba - 26

Even if we remove Foster the average age of that squad is more than 28. Would 29 sound better? Only two players of that squad are between 25 and 28. Most are past 28.

Only Pogba is in the team, so I'm not sure what is your point tbh.

 

[TRUERED89]

Anyone else find it funny he seems to want only British players when he himself was a non-British player for us? And a Liverpool fan at that!

Say what? I've never heard that...

 

[royboy16]

Really feel sorry for Ole. If I was him, I would honestly resign on Transfer deadline day if we don't make some good signings.

I'd very publicly take Woodward to the cleaners. He will get another decent job I think.

He wont get any money if he walks.
I just hope should his manager role not work out here,it doesnt have a damaging effect with the fans as Id hate to see him getting dogs abuse if results dont happen for him.

 

[sunama]

Really feel sorry for Ole. If I was him, I would honestly resign on Transfer deadline day if we don't make some good signings.

I'd very publicly take Woodward to the cleaners. He will get another decent job I think.

Jose did tried taking Woodward to the cleaners last Summer. When Jose called Woodward out for "being on holiday" during the transfer window, Woodward came out with nonsense (which many fans believed). He said that the reason why he didn't buy players is because Jose did not give him any names which he agreed with. I say this was nonsense, because if Jose didn't give him good names, Woodward could've called Jose on the phone (easy to do) and told him to come up with a new list of names and kept repeating this process until they were all agreed on the names.
The truth is that Woodward wanted to save money and simply did not share the ambition of Jose, who has a proven track record of putting winning trophies, above everything else.

When the press said Woodward messed up, he said, "we will hire a DoF". This would pacify the media and also the fans. To this day, fans believe that we are going to hire a DoF (if you don't believe me, check the DoF, thread which is now very very long). Their faith in Woodward is completely blind. I for one, do not believe anything Woodie says - the only thing Woodie cares about is increasing profits and if he could find a way to make bigger profits by getting us relegated - he'd do it. To hell with the fans!

When Jose got fired, he brought in Ole to pacify the fans (again, who grew restless and were pointing fingers at Woodie and the board for being inept). This would've been a good time to bring in a DoF, but as Woodie had no intention of hiring a DoF, he didn't. He is drunk on power and will relinquish control only if he is forced to (ie. when he screws up really badly and gets called out on it).

I've already stated why Woodward didn't spend big in the Summer of 2018.
What was his excuse in Winter 2018/19, when Ole needed to bolster his squad - "we haven't yet appointed a permanent manager, so won't buy players". He forgot that if we got 2 good players that the new manager (Ole or not), would be able to make use of those players.
And that brings us to this transfer window. We have a bought a player from the Championship and we may make some more signings. However, fans continue to defend Woodie by saying that we still have time to buy. Madrid (who are also in a reibuildings process) have already spent big this Summer. We, on the other hand, are renewing contracts of players who should be let go on a free transfers, so that we can save money (it is cheaper to renew a player contract than to let him leave and buy in a new player).

Going forward, we find ourselves in a situation where we have a manager who finished the previous season, showing a run of form which would see him sacked in any other club in the top 10, losing most matches, including a draw against bottom of the league and a loss to the 2nd from bottom team.

IMO, to begin an upward trend, Woodward would need to be relieved of his footballing duties. I cannot see any other solution.

And for those who still back Woodie, here is a list of our finishing positions, since he took over:
7th
4th
5th
6th
2nd
6th

The 2nd place is a Jose "special", achievable by an elite level manager. The rest of the placings are more in line, with what a good manager is capable of getting, given our squad.

 

[sunama]

Say what? I've never heard that...

Doesn't really matter if Ole is or isn't a LFC fan.
He played for us and did his all for us.

 

[Grande]

Clearly my rune deciphering talents are not up to scratch .

Regarding Molde, if you have anything to add to these two posts let me know.

http://www.redcafe.net/threads/ole-gunnar-solskjær-permanent-manager.446090/page-227#post-24249418

http://www.redcafe.net/threads/ole-gunnar-solskjær-permanent-manager.446090/page-227#post-24250471

I have a dubious handwriting.

If you want some background for the league tables you found, I’m happy to provide.

Molde as you know, had never won a Norwegian league since it’s formation in 1911. But in 1998, billionaire Kjell Inge Røkke, owner of Norwegian Seafood and Aker, invested big money in stadium, players and coaches, in order to make Molde a top team. Several locally well renowned coaches were hired, including Gunder Bengtsson who took IFK Göteborg to a UEFA Cup win, but to no avail. In 2006 they were even relegated, and in 2009 they were close to relegation again. 2010 they did well under the iron disciplin of Uwe Rösler of Brentford ‘fame’ to come third, but the squad was dubious and people (including Rösler) questioned the mentality of many of the players.

Solskjær got a good war chest when he came in in 2011. He got a good chemistry with the players he kept and hit well with his buys. He had a clear playing style inspired mostly I believe by Meulensteen and Guardiola, fairly possession based. It all gelled quickly, and they won two leagues in a row. If you have read your tables, you’ll know that different teams had pipped Rosenborg when they were at a beatable level, but none had managed to do it back-to-back-seasons since the early 80’s.

The third season, Ole met challenges in injuries, losing a few strong players to foreign leagues, ageing stars and players who were not hungry after the success. He started adressing these things, removing a few bad apples, giving some younger players chances, and the team picked up towards the end of the season, when Solskjær left for PL. Young and proising Tor Skullerud was picked as a successor was cosen partly because he stood for a similar playing style. He got one great season where the team Ole built clicked a hundred per cent, but his coaching and man management abilities were not at the same level, and the team deteriorated in his second season. He couldn’t change that around, and the age profile of the group was such that a big rebuild was necessary, but Røkke was intent on making the club more self sustained and didn’t invest as much any more. Skullerud hasn’t been able to build a successful team anywhere else since then. I think it’s safe to say that the runaway league win under Skullerud was mainly due to Ole’s teambuilding, and in facy Skullerud has said as much himself later.

The second time Ole came back, the club was still in need of a rebuild, and money were much more sparse. Solskjær this time opted for building slowly from youth. His Cardiff time had learnt him that possesion tactics only work if you have the best 11, so he used more from his previous NT coach Egil Drillo Olsen, and was also trying to implement high press inspired by Klopp’s Dortmund. This was a slower process with the younger players, but they over three years made steady process, doing well in Europe, and the last half of last season before he left, they were results-wise and playing wise head and shoulders the best team in Norway, including the then league winners Rosenborg. This season, the team Ole built has continued that form to large degree under his then assistant, playing Ole’s way and with his key players. Everything points to this being mostly Ole’s work.

So what can we draw from this? I think it’s fair to say Solskjær must be credited with building two different top level teams in this league, one with much money using them well, and one with medium money building gradually from youth. He clearly deserves more of the credit for Molde’s good form of 2014 and 2019 than his successor and assistant. He has shown he is able to develop playing style with time, and is such a modern manager.

Is doing this in Norway translatable to England? Who knows, it will be interesting to find out.

 

[Grande]

So what's wrong about that?

https://www.planetfootball.com/quic...-gunnar-solskjaers-man-utd-reserve-champions/

Ben Foster - 36 years old.
Rafael - 29 in 10-15 days.
Joe Dudgeon - 28 and a half.
Corry Evans - 29 in 1 month.
Ritchie de Laet - 30
Oliver Gill - 28 and a half
Oliver Norwood - 28
Rodrigo Possebon - 30
Cameron Stewart - 28
Macheda - 28 in 2 months.
Mame Biram Diouf - 31
Ron-Robert Zieler - 30
Scott Wootton - 28 in 3 months.
Gabriel Obertan - 30
Will Keane - 26
Pogba - 26

Even if we remove Foster the average age of that squad is more than 28. Would 29 sound better? Only two players of that squad are between 25 and 28. Most are past 28.

Only Pogba is in the team, so I'm not sure what is your point tbh.

So what’s wrong with saying Paul Pogba is 30 years old? It’s simply incorrect.

 

[JustAGuest]

Excellent post @Grande. Quite an interesting read.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

I have a dubious handwriting.

If you want some background for the league tables you found, I’m happy to provide.

Molde as you know, had never won a Norwegian league since it’s formation in 1911. But in 1998, billionaire Kjell Inge Røkke, owner of Norwegian Seafood and Aker, invested big money in stadium, players and coaches, in order to make Molde a top team. Several locally well renowned coaches were hired, including Gunder Bengtsson who took IFK Göteborg to a UEFA Cup win, but to no avail. In 2006 they were even relegated, and in 2009 they were close to relegation again. 2010 they did well under the iron disciplin of Uwe Rösler of Brentford ‘fame’ to come third, but the squad was dubious and people (including Rösler) questioned the mentality of many of the players.

Solskjær got a good war chest when he came in in 2011. He got a good chemistry with the players he kept and hit well with his buys. He had a clear playing style inspired mostly I believe by Meulensteen and Guardiola, fairly possession based. It all gelled quickly, and they won two leagues in a row. If you have read your tables, you’ll know that different teams had pipped Rosenborg when they were at a beatable level, but none had managed to do it back-to-back-seasons since the early 80’s.

The third season, Ole met challenges in injuries, losing a few strong players to foreign leagues, ageing stars and players who were not hungry after the success. He started adressing these things, removing a few bad apples, giving some younger players chances, and the team picked up towards the end of the season, when Solskjær left for PL. Young and proising Tor Skullerud was picked as a successor was cosen partly because he stood for a similar playing style. He got one great season where the team Ole built clicked a hundred per cent, but his coaching and man management abilities were not at the same level, and the team deteriorated in his second season. He couldn’t change that around, and the age profile of the group was such that a big rebuild was necessary, but Røkke was intent on making the club more self sustained and didn’t invest as much any more. Skullerud hasn’t been able to build a successful team anywhere else since then. I think it’s safe to say that the runaway league win under Skullerud was mainly due to Ole’s teambuilding, and in facy Skullerud has said as much himself later.

The second time Ole came back, the club was still in need of a rebuild, and money were much more sparse. Solskjær this time opted for building slowly from youth. His Cardiff time had learnt him that possesion tactics only work if you have the best 11, so he used more from his previous NT coach Egil Drillo Olsen, and was also trying to implement high press inspired by Klopp’s Dortmund. This was a slower process with the younger players, but they over three years made steady process, doing well in Europe, and the last half of last season before he left, they were results-wise and playing wise head and shoulders the best team in Norway, including the then league winners Rosenborg. This season, the team Ole built has continued that form to large degree under his then assistant, playing Ole’s way and with his key players. Everything points to this being mostly Ole’s work.

So what can we draw from this? I think it’s fair to say Solskjær must be credited with building two different top level teams in this league, one with much money using them well, and one with medium money building gradually from youth. He clearly deserves more of the credit for Molde’s good form of 2014 and 2019 than his successor and assistant. He has shown he is able to develop playing style with time, and is such a modern manager.

Is doing this in Norway translatable to England? Who knows, it will be interesting to find out.

Great post mate.

 

[Enigma_87]

So what’s wrong with saying Paul Pogba is 30 years old? It’s simply incorrect.

So your post that he managed players between 25 and 28 is correct considering only two of the whole roster is below 28 currently?

Also on Pogba:

Solskjaer managed Pogba just six times at reserve level and Pogba only became a regular after Solskjaer left to become Molde manager in December 2010. That proved to be his final season as Sir Alex Ferguson continuously overlooked Pogba.

Despite playing just 291 minutes under Solskjaer in the second string, Pogba received the first winner's medal of his career and played at Old Trafford for the first time.

Our top goalscorers that year were Diouf - 31, Tosic 32 and Eikrem 29 in August.

I'm not still sure what your point is, other than trying to be smart about it. Pogba played for Solskjaer for 291 minutes and waltzed past the reserves at the time.

 

[AshRK]

I have a dubious handwriting.

If you want some background for the league tables you found, I’m happy to provide.

Molde as you know, had never won a Norwegian league since it’s formation in 1911. But in 1998, billionaire Kjell Inge Røkke, owner of Norwegian Seafood and Aker, invested big money in stadium, players and coaches, in order to make Molde a top team. Several locally well renowned coaches were hired, including Gunder Bengtsson who took IFK Göteborg to a UEFA Cup win, but to no avail. In 2006 they were even relegated, and in 2009 they were close to relegation again. 2010 they did well under the iron disciplin of Uwe Rösler of Brentford ‘fame’ to come third, but the squad was dubious and people (including Rösler) questioned the mentality of many of the players.

Solskjær got a good war chest when he came in in 2011. He got a good chemistry with the players he kept and hit well with his buys. He had a clear playing style inspired mostly I believe by Meulensteen and Guardiola, fairly possession based. It all gelled quickly, and they won two leagues in a row. If you have read your tables, you’ll know that different teams had pipped Rosenborg when they were at a beatable level, but none had managed to do it back-to-back-seasons since the early 80’s.

The third season, Ole met challenges in injuries, losing a few strong players to foreign leagues, ageing stars and players who were not hungry after the success. He started adressing these things, removing a few bad apples, giving some younger players chances, and the team picked up towards the end of the season, when Solskjær left for PL. Young and proising Tor Skullerud was picked as a successor was cosen partly because he stood for a similar playing style. He got one great season where the team Ole built clicked a hundred per cent, but his coaching and man management abilities were not at the same level, and the team deteriorated in his second season. He couldn’t change that around, and the age profile of the group was such that a big rebuild was necessary, but Røkke was intent on making the club more self sustained and didn’t invest as much any more. Skullerud hasn’t been able to build a successful team anywhere else since then. I think it’s safe to say that the runaway league win under Skullerud was mainly due to Ole’s teambuilding, and in facy Skullerud has said as much himself later.

The second time Ole came back, the club was still in need of a rebuild, and money were much more sparse. Solskjær this time opted for building slowly from youth. His Cardiff time had learnt him that possesion tactics only work if you have the best 11, so he used more from his previous NT coach Egil Drillo Olsen, and was also trying to implement high press inspired by Klopp’s Dortmund. This was a slower process with the younger players, but they over three years made steady process, doing well in Europe, and the last half of last season before he left, they were results-wise and playing wise head and shoulders the best team in Norway, including the then league winners Rosenborg. This season, the team Ole built has continued that form to large degree under his then assistant, playing Ole’s way and with his key players. Everything points to this being mostly Ole’s work.

So what can we draw from this? I think it’s fair to say Solskjær must be credited with building two different top level teams in this league, one with much money using them well, and one with medium money building gradually from youth. He clearly deserves more of the credit for Molde’s good form of 2014 and 2019 than his successor and assistant. He has shown he is able to develop playing style with time, and is such a modern manager.

Is doing this in Norway translatable to England? Who knows, it will be interesting to find out.

But but I thought Ole was just a glorified cheerleader who doesn't know anything about management. Anyways that is a good research nd shows he needs to be respected and given time to prove himself.

 

[Grande]

So your post that he managed players between 25 and 28 is correct considering only two of the whole roster is below 28 currently?

Also on Pogba:


Our top goalscorers that year were Diouf - 31, Tosic 32 and Eikrem 29 in August.

I'm not still sure what your point is, other than trying to be smart about it. Pogba played for Solskjaer for 291 minutes and waltzed past the reserves at the time.

You have a real hard time admitting a mistake, haven’t you?

Also, if you’re not sure what my point was, I for the last time advise you to read my first post you were respondibg to again. It has nothing to do with Paul Pogba’s age, I assure you.

 

[Grande]

Excellent post @Grande. Quite an interesting read.

Great post mate.

Thanks, lads!

But but I thought Ole was just a glorified cheerleader who doesn't know anything about management. Anyways that is a good research nd shows he needs to be respected and given time to prove himself.

I think that about sums it up pretty well.

 

[Enigma_87]

You have a real hard time admitting a mistake, haven’t you?

Also, if you’re not sure what my point was, I for the last time advise you to read my first post you were respondibg to again. It has nothing to do with Paul Pogba’s age, I assure you.

It's obvious that I was generalizing. Foster is 36 and was on goal at the time, should we take him as individual example? Only Pogba and Will Keane are below 28 so your example of between 25-28 is also incorrect, or you are moving goalposts now?

The in-house appointment of Pep and Ole is a lot different and I advise you to read my post that you possibly overlooked. Being part of the staff 10 years ago isn't exactly an in house appointment in the same sense Pep or Zidane were.

 

[Enigma_87]

But but I thought Ole was just a glorified cheerleader who doesn't know anything about management. Anyways that is a good research nd shows he needs to be respected and given time to prove himself.

Yeah and if he doesn't work we should give the job to Ronny Deila. Coach of the year in Norway and also champion, champion in Scotland, 43 years old. Give him 2-3 seasons and 200-300 million. I mean why shouldn't he? We don't know if it will work or not until we try it.

 

[AshRK]

Yeah and if he doesn't work we should give the job to Ronny Deila. Coach of the year in Norway and also champion, champion in Scotland, 43 years old. Give him 2-3 seasons and 200-300 million. I mean why shouldn't he? We don't know if it will work or not until we try it.

Or even better let us try your idea, let us keep on sacking managers because that would make us world beaters and maybe even make the likes of Ashley Young, Jones, Smalling, Rojo, Darmian, Lingard, Mata and others become world class footballers. I am pretty sure every world class manager under the sun is dying to work with the wonderful structure we have here created by Woodward.

 

[Enigma_87]

Or even better let us try your idea, let us keep on sacking managers because that would make us world beaters and maybe even make the likes of Ashley Young, Jones, Smalling, Rojo, Darmian, Lingard, Mata and others become world class footballers. I am pretty sure every world class manager under the sun is dying to work with the wonderful structure we have here created by Woodward.

Wasn't Ole supposed to get rid of that deadwood(or was it only fans wishful thinking)? Isn't those on your list with new contracts, still with the team and made captain?

Yes. We saw that City hiring Pep and Liverpool Klopp isn't the way forward. Let's try the underdog project.

Since we first won the Premier League the following managers became champions:

Ferguson, Mourinho, Pep, Wenger, Ancelotti, Pellegrini, Mancini, Ranieri, Dalglish. All of them managed top sides before winning the league with their teams.

Premier league is brutally competitive and the quality of the manager counts. Experience also. If Barca/Real test with a newbie they can finish at worst 3rd or 4th. If we appoint a rookie a bottom half finish isn't that wild estimation. There lies the difference in all those examples.