Do we have a rat or are we seeing the start of something worse?

andersj

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"One source has told ESPN FC that there were concerns within the squad's foreign contingent as early as February -- when Solskjaer was still unbeaten in his role as caretaker-manager -- that the approach under the former Cardiff City manager was "too British" and lacking in continental expertise. The same source has claimed that last week's training regime was "just running, running, running," with players forced to do double sessions on their first week back in preseason following Solskjaer's decision to bring the squad back as early as July 1 to start preparations for the new campaign."

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/clu...f-solskjaers-issues-for-man-uniteds-preseason

Whether the source is a player or a players agent or just made up from a lying journalist, this is a bit of a worry. Not that the player is running a lot or that the approach is to "British". That bit, I am fine with. I remember similar reports on Klopp a few years back. It is also evidently a part of the approach of Pochettino and Pep. Teams that play proactive football needs to run. A lot! We used too as well. As Pep said in a Sky-interview, you dont run, you dont play. There is not much "too British" about it.

I'm not that worried about the rat either. Lack of loyalty is an issue, but I'm sure Solskjaer will get rid of the players with the wrong mentality. We knew that there are players who lack the right attitude and commitment. I'm actually amused if the players are complaining about too much running. They have a few kilometers to make up for, to say the least.

What worries me is the agenda of the journalist. I have felt for some time that Ogden would be one of the first to have a go at Solskjaer. I saw an interview a while back where he was extremely critical of Solskjaer without managing to explain why (he was, of course, very pro in March). While he strikes me as one of these headless chicken journalists who will be a turncoat, I worry that there is more too it. This is usually how it starts and the reason I feel strongly about it is the angle. This criticism came from nowhere and it is unwarranted. He is having a go at Solskjaer for making the players run too much. For the first week of pre-season! And he is trying to put a label on him based on it. It is ridiculous!

I can only imagine how this will develop when he actually starts making a few mistakes this season (even Ferguson did!). Last season we saw how success breeds success. We have too many times the past few years how the opposite can also be the case. Journalists play their parts in reinforcing trends and articles like this might not matter much at this point in time. But it might be a seed and if we come through a tough patch it might grow and eventually hurt the focus and moral of the team. We can not underestimate the importance of having a group of players who believe in the work they are doing compared to a group who dont.

Ferguson famously said "stand behind your managers". The quote can be misused and I don't think Ferguson would want the fans to stand behind the manager "no matter what". But I do think this is what he was talking about. He knew all too well how important it is to control the media and the narrative they create. Because in the end, it is likely to become a self-fulfilling prophecy and consequently the truth. We should never accept that journalists have a go at the manager in an unwarranted manner like this.

Usually it is hard to spot and agenda and an angle. At this point of the season it is easier and I felt this was an obvious one. I would appreciate if people in here could contribute to spotting and highlighting similar agendas from journalists. Maybe in this thread (might need a better headline, then?)?
 

Moonwalker

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"One source has told ESPN FC that there were concerns within the squad's foreign contingent as early as February -- when Solskjaer was still unbeaten in his role as caretaker-manager -- that the approach under the former Cardiff City manager was "too British" and lacking in continental expertise. The same source has claimed that last week's training regime was "just running, running, running," with players forced to do double sessions on their first week back in preseason following Solskjaer's decision to bring the squad back as early as July 1 to start preparations for the new campaign."

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/clu...f-solskjaers-issues-for-man-uniteds-preseason

Whether the source is a player or a players agent or just made up from a lying journalist, this is a bit of a worry. Not that the player is running a lot or that the approach is to "British". That bit, I am fine with. I remember similar reports on Klopp a few years back. It is also evidently a part of the approach of Pochettino and Pep. Teams that play proactive football needs to run. A lot! We used too as well. As Pep said in a Sky-interview, you dont run, you dont play. There is not much "too British" about it.

I'm not that worried about the rat either. Lack of loyalty is an issue, but I'm sure Solskjaer will get rid of the players with the wrong mentality. We knew that there are players who lack the right attitude and commitment. I'm actually amused if the players are complaining about too much running. They have a few kilometers to make up for, to say the least.

What worries me is the agenda of the journalist. I have felt for some time that Ogden would be one of the first to have a go at Solskjaer. I saw an interview a while back where he was extremely critical of Solskjaer without managing to explain why (he was, of course, very pro in March). While he strikes me as one of these headless chicken journalists who will be a turncoat, I worry that there is more too it. This is usually how it starts and the reason I feel strongly about it is the angle. This criticism came from nowhere and it is unwarranted. He is having a go at Solskjaer for making the players run too much. For the first week of pre-season! And he is trying to put a label on him based on it. It is ridiculous!

I can only imagine how this will develop when he actually starts making a few mistakes this season (even Ferguson did!). Last season we saw how success breeds success. We have too many times the past few years how the opposite can also be the case. Journalists play their parts in reinforcing trends and articles like this might not matter much at this point in time. But it might be a seed and if we come through a tough patch it might grow and eventually hurt the focus and moral of the team. We can not underestimate the importance of having a group of players who believe in the work they are doing compared to a group who dont.

Ferguson famously said "stand behind your managers". The quote can be misused and I don't think Ferguson would want the fans to stand behind the manager "no matter what". But I do think this is what he was talking about. He knew all too well how important it is to control the media and the narrative they create. Because in the end, it is likely to become a self-fulfilling prophecy and consequently the truth. We should never accept that journalists have a go at the manager in an unwarranted manner like this.

Usually it is hard to spot and agenda and an angle. At this point of the season it is easier and I felt this was an obvious one. I would appreciate if people in here could contribute to spotting and highlighting similar agendas from journalists. Maybe in this thread (might need a better headline, then?)?
This is amazing, there's a million things to be legitimately worried about at the moment, but out of all of them it's the "agenda of a journalist" that's the most disturbing to you?

Ferguson, by the way, never could control the media or their agendas. He would amuse himself warring with them, but it never stopped what they were writing about or how.

It's a fools errand worrying about this stuff and you should stop for your own sake.
 

EireRed_GS

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If the journo isnt talking through his hoop, Its probably one of the players. And a sign of the trend in the dressing room that fcked last season.

I would kind of agree if true Ole is focussed on homegrown British (cus majority of them aint good enough), Thats a stupid strategy to have.

But when it comes to having a cry about having to do alot of running and doing double sessions.. they seriously need to have a look at themselves. After the shambles on how we ended last season, Ole said he want our team to be hardest working in the league. To get to that level is gonna take some serious fitness. Training like this is expected. Not one of them are in for an easy ride this season.

If a player doesnt like that & cant be bothered to put the head down and work, they can get the fck out of our club. Jump in that taxi with Pogba and Lukaku.
 
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snowkarl

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Unless we win our first 10 games this season I bet the atmosphere in United circles will be absolutely horrific.

Preseason started yesterday and already we've got articles about OGS making the players run too much :lol::lol:
 

Snafu17

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So the first mistake you made was trusting a ESPN "source".
 

Crashoutcassius

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Players kicking off about running too much after the end of last season... if you don't take Oles side on this you are a disgrace of a fan
 

prateik

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These feckers dont run enough during a game. If he is training them to run more, it can only help.
 

VP89

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Quick! Which players wouldn't be happy with running?
 

roonster09

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It's Ogden, his career was done with Moyes'
 

HTG

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Players kicking off about running too much after the end of last season... if you don't take Oles side on this you are a disgrace of a fan
Or you have a general understanding of modern exercise in football.
 

Born2Lose

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These players have gotten far too comfortable with losing, with enjoying the esteem of playing for United but not putting in the effort required.

At this point I'm not expecting Champagne football or many trophies, I just want to watch a team that gives the same level of effort week in / week out that City and Liverpool players do.

It will be interesting to see if these stories still come out once Pogba's gone.
 

mitchmouse

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Mark Ogden is actually one of the better football writers - at least when he writes for the Torygraph, and isn't he a United fan? If he is, then he's probably as worried as the realists in the caf
 

SER19

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Aaaaand it begins again. 4th manager in a row to take the fall. These guys would win the treble with the right manager :lol:
 

peridigm

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Journalist changing their narrative to create a story? Shocking stuff.
 

AltiUn

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It's Ogden, his career was done with Moyes'
Indeed, I still remember fondly when what he said was basically gospel, now he's honestly no better than Delaney.
 

roonster09

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Indeed, I still remember fondly when what he said was basically gospel, now he's honestly no better than Delaney.
Yeah. When Moyes was manager, Ogden was very reliable. Now he is just a poor journalist with articles like this.
 

andersj

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This is amazing, there's a million things to be legitimately worried about at the moment, but out of all of them it's the "agenda of a journalist" that's the most disturbing to you?

Ferguson, by the way, never could control the media or their agendas. He would amuse himself warring with them, but it never stopped what they were writing about or how.

It's a fools errand worrying about this stuff and you should stop for your own sake.
Hehe, I'm fine. Thank you!

Most disturbing? Did I write that? I had to read it again and as it turns out, I did not. Maybe you should too. But if its that much trouble for you, you should probably just continue being naive. It probably suits you...
 

Wednesday at Stoke

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Players always complain when they have to do fitness work and they like working with the ball. That's a constant issue of friction. I think Ole will start training on tactics as soon as they start the tour so they will all be happier then.
 

Beachryan

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Indeed, I still remember fondly when what he said was basically gospel, now he's honestly no better than Delaney.
Seriously, I used to care about both, now nothing but negative click generating bs. It's almost sad.
 

roonster09

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Just few days back from Ole's interview

Have you eased the boys in or has it been straight down to the hard work?
“We’ve got six weeks until the league starts so we can’t take it easy. They've all had their individual programmes and are in good shape from day one, so we’ve put them through their paces. Of course, most of the things in modern football are with the ball. You do technical work - and that is also physical work - and tactical work. You can’t just run them up and down in straight lines like I used to [do], when I was young. To be fair, I didn't either - I think I caught the beginning of the modern era of football.”
Ogden is just a piece of shit who won't look out of place writing for Sun.
 

VP89

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Unsure how true the report is but I do hope Ole is making the feckers run. Although I stood by Jose I hated how we weren't fit under his regime. It was all too pragmatic and not fluid enough.
 

Woodzy

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So much negativity before the season is even close to starting. Feels for too familiar to last year.
 

TRUERED89

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All made up tripe imo.. Cant stand Mark Ogden though, and never take his articles or interviews seriously, absolute clown of a journalist..
 

roonster09

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Also there is nothing wrong with running and double sessions. These same clowns were so giddy when Conte and Klopp was making them run so much in preseason. There was even detailed breakdown on Conte's preseason.

Klopp -
"It will be triple training sessions, of course," Klopp said at the club's end of season awards. "The problem with preseason is that for the first three weeks we have 15 players who will have been away at the Euros and we also have to see how the squad is changing.

Everything you do is based around physical potential and what you do in preseason is key to that. We are now really fit but because of the games -- our best sessions have been the games.
Redcafe (few guys) - Fitness is just an excuse.
 

afrocentricity

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Brexit means Brexit!
Geronwivit!

Seriously though, whoever is having a moan about having to run a bit more than usual, should shut the feck up! The journo that ran with it should shut the feck up too....
 

Deery

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To be honest 3-4 weeks off running isn’t going to make very much difference we won’t be playing like Liverpool come the start of the season.
It has to be ingrained in them week in week out to see any difference and even then some players might not suit it.
 

Bestietom

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We need to be the fittest team in the league. Then we might have a chance of carrying the ball past midfield, as we don't have any midfielders.
 

Crackers

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We need to be the fittest team in the league. Then we might have a chance of carrying the ball past midfield, as we don't have any midfielders.
Play a bunch of really fit players and we can just press them in their own half. Problem solved
 

big rons sovereign

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Complaining about double sessions in pre season? That's standard pre season isn't it?
When I worked at a football League club every pre season was double sessions, until the last week or so when they'd relax a bit and maybe have a few days off.
Sounds like utter toss to me
 

Bestietom

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Complaining about double sessions in pre season? That's standard pre season isn't it?
When I worked at a football League club every pre season was double sessions, until the last week or so when they'd relax a bit and maybe have a few days off.
Sounds like utter toss to me
Lazy gits. Make em run Ole.
 

roonster09

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Complaining about double sessions in pre season? That's standard pre season isn't it?
When I worked at a football League club every pre season was double sessions, until the last week or so when they'd relax a bit and maybe have a few days off.
Sounds like utter toss to me
Yeah, looks like Ogden just pulled something out of his arse. Double session is very common in preseason and you have someone like Klopp who had triple sessions too.
Jurgen Klopp had triple sessions in Liverpool's preseason, an approach that sources say left many of his players so exhausted that they would sleep in hotel rooms rather than go home in between.

Meanwhile, Ben Davies has revealed that his international teammates are often "stunned" when Tottenham players tell them of Mauricio Pochettino's fitness regime.

As for Chelsea, Conte has set his stall out and those late goals are the early dividends. Defender Gary Cahill described his most recent preseason as one of the "hardest" he's ever experienced, but in the long run, it could make Chelsea very difficult to outlast as the season goes on.
 

DomesticTadpole

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Why are they complaining about double sessions in pre-season? Haven't they been doing that for a while under different managers. Maybe Ole is tougher than they thought, or because he gave them programmes to do during the hols that it would be easier in pre-season. Think again lads.
 

Bestietom

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Why are they complaining about double sessions in pre-season? Haven't they been doing that for a while under different managers. Maybe Ole is tougher than they thought, or because he gave them programmes to do during the hols that it would be easier in pre-season. Think again lads.
Humbre, Humbre, Ole, Ole,
 

HTG

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You mean the exercise where double, triple session is common?
It depends on how and when you do it. There are many coaches who even stopped any sort of exercises without the ball. Others don't practise for more than 90 minutes at all. The idea that more running and exercise leads to better results is not true. There is such a thing as too much exercise. While I'm not going to accuse OGS of that, as I don't know enough about him, as a fan of the club I would pay close attention to what the players seem to think. They have seen enough coaches to be able to judge the methods of OGS and if they are skeptical, so would I be.
The idea that players are lazy and the coach needs to kick them in the ass, is just stupid talk from the fans.