Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[SportingCP96]

Hahahaha almost everyone who matters thinks he’s comfortably the best of his generation.

If 70% of people though the sky was red would that make them right?

He is second to Ronaldo in his generation and thats pretty good. He should be proud in that. There is no shame in being second to a guy like Ronaldo.

 

[MJJ]

you know why we didn't remember this stuff about Ronaldo? Because we don't care. CR fanboys are always looking what Messi is doing. They can't get over it.

http://www.redcafe.net/search/145607827/?q=ronaldo&o=date&c[user][0]=20843

Yes its the CR fanboys who care about messi, poncho would never comment on ronaldo needlessly.

 

[Welby5]

Your first point has some merit, but the one about the CL lacking quality is simply laughable.

You used to get only a handful of teams capable of winning the thing back in the EC days because let’s face it, the 2nd-4th placed English, Spanish, etc sides are miles better than the champions of the smaller leagues.

And how many serious contenders are there these days? Next year it'll yet again be the same - Barca, R Madrid, B Munich, Liverpool, City with PSG and Juve big outsiders.
And the so called quality of the top four in England is highly questionable. A Chelsea team with strikers way below world class and a feeble midfield lacking goals and creativty. A Spurs side that lost something like 14 league games and hasn't won the league since the Beatles were playing the Cavern.

 

[Whiskey Red]

Seriously, how do you lot keep this up? Approaching 500 pages and you have basically rehashed the same stuff over and over. Don't you get bored?

 

[Ishdalar]

You literally just pretended me saying conmebol’s corruption gave Messi extra chances to win the tournament meant they purposefully created the tournament because of him.

Then went on a massive rant on it where you name dropped the sailors that found Madeira. Yeah, it’s my job alright.



So they wanted to prevent what happened in 2007 but somehow they didn’t see that in 2007? They saw it over 10 years later, makes sense.

They couldn’t simply wait 5 years until 2024 either given we just had 3 in the past 5 years. Come on... they did it because it gets them more money, simple as that.



Copa América hosts are in alphabetical order precisely to not have countries being hosts too often, the idea is to have every country as host before repeating it. Infrastructure isn’t the priority or else we’d have Brazil hosting it every other tournament. Colombia could host it by themselves. Plenty of other South American countries could host it.

Keep beating around the bush.

Againm CONMEBOL announces they have to organize a tournament in 2020 to align with the Euro (why not sooner? beats me, may because of sponsors or concessions), they offer the 2020 World Cup to whoever wants to organize it, and ends up in Colombia and Argentina.

Alphabetically, Bolivia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay and Venezuela aren't up for it in 2 years, Colombia has to organize it in 2 years less so they need help, Chile and Brazil just hosted theirs... Argentina gets to share it.

If any country could host it, why was only two options on the desk to get it?.

 

[SportingCP96]

Seriously, how do you lot keep this up? Approaching 500 pages and you have basically rehashed the same stuff over and over. Don't you get bored?

The beauty of football just wait until the season starts.

 

[Welby5]

I find this argument so boring. I think we can all agree that if Ronaldo and Messi had dominated a WC it would put them undisputedably up there with Pele and Maradonna, but club football makes up 90% of a players career therefore paints a better picture of a players career. If Messi like Ronaldinho had a short peak and won a WC and maybe 2-3 years at his peak level would you consider him a greater player just because he had that world cup? I find being the best in the world and scoring almost a goal per game for a decade way more impressive. Messi's scored over 50 goals in his last season and dominated all attacking stats and nobody bads an eyelid because we are so used to it. Messi has maintained Luiz Ronaldo's peak at club level for 10 years.

Ronaldinho was a great player at his peak, but the fact is a patched up Ronaldo was more importannt to that Brazilian team winning the WC than Ronaldinho was. Without Ronaldo Brazil wouldn't have won the WC. So, imho, Ronaldinho neither had the longterm great consistency at club level of a Messi and CR7, or the massive importance at WC level of a Ronaldo or Maradona, so great as he was, Ronaldinho is a level or two down from the elite alltime greats.

 

[Cal?]

I can understand that, I can even understand if that affects one's judgement as it's quite obviouslythe case with many here. However, liking someone more because he's got a past at your favourite club doesn't mean you have to throw every bit of objectivity away and become absolutely toxic towards his rival. But maybe that's just me. I exemplarily hate Bayern Munich but I'd felt stupid and childish if refused to admit that they're one of the 3 best teams in the world under Heynckes and Guardiola or had belittled the class of someone like Robben or Ribery.

That’s why most Ronaldo fans have said Messi is one of the best ever, yet the Messi brigade continually claim Ronaldo isn’t even in the top 10 of other ludicrous comments.

 

[SportingCP96]

That’s why most Ronaldo fans have said Messi is one of the best ever, yet the Messi brigade continually claim Ronaldo isn’t even in the top 10 of other ludicrous comments.

That to me is where the debate gets “stupid” to claim Ronaldo is outside top 10 or around 6-10 is a joke considering Messi has been to compared to him there whole career.

I think Messi fans are more bitter because Messi had what seemed as such an insurmountable lead over Ronaldo that when Ronaldo went up a few gears and over took Messi there fans were bitter and upset about it.

 

[Cal?]

And how many serious contenders are there these days? Next year it'll yet again be the same - Barca, R Madrid, B Munich, Liverpool, City with PSG and Juve big outsiders.
And the so called quality of the top four in England is highly questionable. A Chelsea team with strikers way below world class and a feeble midfield lacking goals and creativty. A Spurs side that lost something like 14 league games and hasn't won the league since the Beatles were playing the Cavern.

You counted 7 yourself, Spurs made one a few weeks ago and Atletico not that long ago.

The fact is the CL is harder to than the EC

 

[Cal?]

That to me is where the debate gets “stupid” to claim Ronaldo is outside top 10 or around 6-10 is a joke considering Messi has been to compared to him there whole career.

I think Messi fans are more bitter because Messi had what seemed as such an insurmountable lead over Ronaldo that when Ronaldo went up a few gears and over took Messi there fans were bitter and upset about it.

Exactly, we all recognize Messi is one of the greats, yet they think belittling Ronaldo somehow makes their worshipping more sincere.

 

[DoomSlayer]

Exactly, we all recognize Messi is one of the greats, yet they think belittling Ronaldo somehow makes their worshipping more sincere.

They seem to be the football "purists" - supposedly only their view on the sport is truthful and meaningful. In 10 years, everybody will be talking about Ronaldo and Messi as the 2 best players ever, choosing between them is mostly about preference, unless something drastically changes in the next few years, which definitely could still happen.

Messi winning another treble or Ronaldo pushing Juventus to a CL could be huge arguments in either one's case. But still, I really don't get the downplaying some people do. It's like some fans feel the need to compete on the behalf of their favourite player.

 

[Zehner]

That’s why most Ronaldo fans have said Messi is one of the best ever, yet the Messi brigade continually claim Ronaldo isn’t even in the top 10 of other ludicrous comments.

This is no negotiation a la 'okay, I'll accept Messi in the top 5 but you do the same with Cristiano'. It's not close for me, I'm sorry, and I won't pretend it is because you think Messi's the second best ever in some sort of weird bargaining. It doesn't work like that.

The difference between us is you want Cristiano to be better than Messi, but I don't want Messi to be better. I think he is after watching both play a lot but I've no emotional connection to any of those two like you do. When I say it is not close then I don't do that out of ill feelings towards Ronaldo but because it's my opinion as football fan. And that's why Ronaldo's recent success doesn't change anything since as an individual player he has actually degressed. He was at his best around 2010 for me and even that version was inferior to the player Messi is now, IMO.

 

[He'sRaldo]

This is no negotiation a la 'okay, I'll accept Messi in the top 5 but you do the same with Cristiano'. It's not close for me, I'm sorry, and I won't pretend it is because you think Messi's the second best ever in some sort of weird bargaining. It doesn't work like that.

The difference between us is you want Cristiano to be better than Messi, but I don't want Messi to be better. I think he is after watching both play a lot but I've no emotional connection to any of those two like you do. When I say it is not close then I don't do that out of ill feelings towards Ronaldo but because it's my opinion as football fan. And that's why Ronaldo's recent success doesn't change anything since as an individual player he has actually degressed. He was at his best around 2010 for me and even that version was inferior to the player Messi is now, IMO.

But that's stupid.

 

[Kush]

This thread wouldn't have nearly the same amount of traction if Ronaldo got the respect he deserved especially from Messi fans. No matter how you slice it, Ronaldo has won Ballon d'Or in same era while Messi was playing at peak of his powers. They're locked at 5 each, its an easy claim to make for Messi being better but when you put Ronaldo as 'maybe' for making the Top 10 all-time list then it shouldn't come as a surprise when people respond to that. I have no problem with any claiming Messi to be GOAT but Ronaldo also makes the best ever Top 5. Anyone disputing that is plain daft.

To draw a parallel with Tennis, Federer is viewed as GOAT not only because of numbers but also the brand of tennis he plays. He's technically perfect and watching him play looks effortless, kinda like Messi. But Nadal, on the other hand on the basis of his athleticism combined with his talent has forced his way into GOAT debate. If both were to called it quits today, Nadal would make Top 3 of all-time. Now, imagine how silly it would look if Federer fans were to claim Nadal 'maybe' makes Top 10.

Also, it would be funny to see how many Messi stans in this thread would root for Nadal as GOAT in Tennis.

 

[Cal?]

This is no negotiation a la 'okay, I'll accept Messi in the top 5 but you do the same with Cristiano'. It's not close for me, I'm sorry, and I won't pretend it is because you think Messi's the second best ever in some sort of weird bargaining. It doesn't work like that.

The difference between us is you want Cristiano to be better than Messi, but I don't want Messi to be better. I think he is after watching both play a lot but I've no emotional connection to any of those two like you do. When I say it is not close then I don't do that out of ill feelings towards Ronaldo but because it's my opinion as football fan. And that's why Ronaldo's recent success doesn't change anything since as an individual player he has actually degressed. He was at his best around 2010 for me and even that version was inferior to the player Messi is now, IMO.

As laughable as it is, you’re entitled to an opinion.

It’s not bargaining, why would I want to bargain with you lot? I genuinely think Messi is a great player, but Ronaldo is just that little bit more decisive.

 

[Zlaatan]

Exactly, we all recognize Messi is one of the greats, yet they think belittling Ronaldo somehow makes their worshipping more sincere.

That’s..ironic. You do realize that you are, by far, the guy who tries to belittle Messi’s achievements more than anyone on this entire forum right?

I was going to give a few examples from the past couple of months but when I searched for ‘Cal giving Messi sh*t’ there were so many hits that the servers overloaded and I just got the “She canee take the strain capt’n” message.

 

[Bole Top]

Also, it would be funny to see how many Messi stans in this thread would root for Nadal as GOAT in Tennis.

I would, since I can't stand Fed despite him being the most talented one and I hope both Djokovic and Nadal win about 45 grandslams each. tennis and football can't be compared though, not that it matters that much. your post is basically directed at very small minority of fans that think Ronaldo doesn't belong in top 10. well, it's similar to Ronaldo brigade on this forum when they say, I don't know, that Messi can't perform in big games. it's equally stupid, but why would anyone lose their sleep over that?

 

[Tostao_80]

As laughable as it is, you’re entitled to an opinion.

It’s not bargaining, why would I want to bargain with you lot? I genuinely think Messi is a great player, but Ronaldo is just that little bit more decisive.

Being more decisive doesnt automatically mean you are better. Gerd Muller was more decisive than Diego, im guessing you think Muller was better then?

 

[Filipe]

Messi for me. So many facets of his game are at a world class level, He's not only the best goalscorer in the team but also the best playmaker, dribbler and FK taker. Messi can win games all on his own.

 

[Tostao_80]

They seem to be the football "purists" - supposedly only their view on the sport is truthful and meaningful. In 10 years, everybody will be talking about Ronaldo and Messi as the 2 best players ever, choosing between them is mostly about preference, unless something drastically changes in the next few years, which definitely could still happen.

Messi winning another treble or Ronaldo pushing Juventus to a CL could be huge arguments in either one's case. But still, I really don't get the downplaying some people do. It's like some fans feel the need to compete on the behalf of their favourite player.

Cristiano fans and their delusion. Leo Messi is already talked about as the greatest by many and at least on the top table with Diego and Pele.
Where is this alternate reality where Cristiano is spoken of in the same vein?
Cristiano gets compared to Leo? Leo gets compared to the other 2 maestro. That in itself tells you all you need to know about how they are viewed.
Many people recognize Cristiano as one of the all time greats, but thats where consensus ends.

 

[Filipe]

Ronaldinho was a great player at his peak, but the fact is a patched up Ronaldo was more importannt to that Brazilian team winning the WC than Ronaldinho was. Without Ronaldo Brazil wouldn't have won the WC. So, imho, Ronaldinho neither had the longterm great consistency at club level of a Messi and CR7, or the massive importance at WC level of a Ronaldo or Maradona, so great as he was, Ronaldinho is a level or two down from the elite alltime greats.

Ronaldinho was 22 during that world cup- far from his prime- and without dinho brazil would have been eliminated vs England.

 

[DoomSlayer]

Cristiano fans and their delusion. Leo Messi is already talked about as the greatest by many and at least on the top table with Diego and Pele.
Where is this alternate reality where Cristiano is spoken of in the same vein?
Cristiano gets compared to Leo? Leo gets compared to the other 2 maestro. That in itself tells you all you need to know about how they are viewed.
Many people recognize Cristiano as one of the all time greats, but thats where consensus ends.

And who the hell are you to judge me as someone's fan and calling me delusional? You better watch your tone buddy.

 

[Cal?]

Being more decisive doesnt automatically mean you are better. Gerd Muller was more decisive than Diego, im guessing you think Muller was better then?

Do point out where I ever said that being more decisive is the only factor?

Cristiano fans and their delusion. Leo Messi is already talked about as the greatest by many and at least on the top table with Diego and Pele.
Where is this alternate reality where Cristiano is spoken of in the same vein?
Cristiano gets compared to Leo? Leo gets compared to the other 2 maestro. That in itself tells you all you need to know about how they are viewed.
Many people recognize Cristiano as one of the all time greats, but thats where consensus ends.

Only in the mind of the Messi brigade. Plenty have talked about Ronaldo as the greatest ever but your brain switches off or you claim they all know nothing.

 

[MJJ]

Cristiano gets compared to Leo? Leo gets compared to the other 2 maestro. That in itself tells you all you need to know about how they are viewed.
Many people recognize Cristiano as one of the all time greats, but thats where consensus ends.

If a=b and b=c, a=c. It's a pretty basic concept.

 

[Tostao_80]

Do point out where I ever said that being more decisive is the only factor?


Only in the mind of the Messi brigade. Plenty have talked about Ronaldo as the greatest ever but your brain switches off or you claim they all know nothing.

Cristiano fans keep saying this. Who are these plenty of people that claim Cristiano is the greatest of all time? This is where you have to back up what youre saying with evidence. Name 10 unbiased football people who have claimed so, or stop spouting untruths.

 

[Tostao_80]

If a=b and b=c, a=c. It's a pretty basic concept.

Back in the real world, a does not equal b. The majority of the football world doesnt consider Cristiano as Leos equal.
Try again.

 

[MJJ]

Back in the real world, a does not equal b. The majority of the football world doesnt consider Cristiano as Leos equal.
Try again.

I think you meant to quote the poster below who made that statement, not me.

Cristiano gets compared to Leo? Leo gets compared to the other 2 maestro.

 

[Tostao_80]

I think you meant to quote the poster below who made that statement, not me.

You do realise that being compared to someone doesnt mean youre their equal? There are plenty of examples of this in the past. Remember Platini constantly being compared to Diego back in the 80s? Would you say they are therefore equal? Beckenbauer and Cruyff?

 

[MJJ]

You do realise that being compared to someone doesnt mean youre their equal? There are plenty of examples of this in the past. Remember Platini constantly being compared to Diego back in the 80s? Would you say they are therefore equal? Beckenbauer and Cruyff?

What does that have to do with your original point? If ronaldo is being compared to messi and messi to pele it's the same as ronaldo being compared to pele. It's the transitive property.

Ironically the difference between platini and maradona is the same as the difference between messi and maradona.

 

[Tostao_80]

What does that have to do with your original point? If ronaldo is being compared to messi and messi to pele it's the same as ronaldo being compared to pele. It's the transitive property.

Ironically the difference between platini and maradona is the same as the difference between messi and maradona.

If its the same as Cristiano being compared to Pele then why dont you hear much of in actuality? How many people compare Cristiano to Pele?
And if your analogy about Diego and Platini is true, then also why is Platini virtually never compared to Pele, despite being compared to Diego very often in the 80s?
All time greats playing in the same era will always be compared. This alone doesn't signify where both players are seen in the larger context. Ive just given you a very clear example of this and youve failed to address it.

 

[Cal?]

Cristiano fans keep saying this. Who are these plenty of people that claim Cristiano is the greatest of all time? This is where you have to back up what youre saying with evidence. Name 10 unbiased football people who have claimed so, or stop spouting untruths.

You really do love going round and round in circles don't you? I'll leave the quote fest to you.

 

[MJJ]

If its the same as Cristiano being compared to Pele then why dont you hear much of in actuality? How many people compare Cristiano to Pele?
And if your analogy about Diego and Platini is true, then also why is Platini virtually never compared to Pele, despite being compared to Diego very often in the 80s?
All time greats playing in the same era will always be compared. This alone doesn't signify where both players are seen in the larger context. Ive just given you a very clear example of this and youve failed to address it.

The reason Platini is not held to the same level is because he did not win a world cup, that's why he was compared to Maradona at that time but his legacy took a hit. Same will happen to messi.

As to why messi is compared to pele and ronaldo is not, there was a time when messi looked the better player by far a d thats when the comparison started however Ronaldo has out performed him in the second half of their careers.

 

[Solius]

You really do love going round and round in circles don't you? I'll leave the quote fest to you.

I swear you've been posting religiously in this thread for about 4 years.

 

[Cal?]

I swear you've been posting religiously in this thread for about 4 years.

@Tostao_80 is the one who likes quoting from various footballers because footballers are known to be great intellectuals and speak nothing but the truth... or something.

 

[Tostao_80]

You really do love going round and round in circles don't you? I'll leave the quote fest to you.

This ladies and gentlemen is what some are reduced to when they cant provide evidence of what they speak.
If you cant back up your points with factual evidence, then what is the point of this thread?
Just say that the sky is green.

 

[Solius]

@Tostao_80 is the one who likes quoting from various footballers because footballers are known to be great intellectuals and speak nothing but the truth... or something.

Do you not get bored of debating this? Why do you care so much.

 

[SirAF]

@Tostao_80 is the one who likes quoting from various footballers because footballers are known to be great intellectuals and speak nothing but the truth... or something.

He’s just a pretender, he’ll fade away soon enough like @Snake Plissken aka snakepiss did.

 

[2mufc0]

The reason Platini is not held to the same level is because he did not win a world cup, that's why he was compared to Maradona at that time but his legacy took a hit. Same will happen to messi.

As to why messi is compared to pele and ronaldo is not, there was a time when messi looked the better player by far a d thats when the comparison started however Ronaldo has out performed him in the second half of their careers.

Even Platini has a better international career than Messi

 

[Peyroteo]

If the better you are at football, the more weight your football options have then aren’t you saying your own opinion is worth feck all when compared to the football gurus that are Pele or Maradona?

If you think Messi’s the best player ever and that the better someone is at football, the more weight their opinion has... doesn’t the fact Messi’s put Ronaldo at the same level as himself several different times mean you can’t actually think he’s better?

It’s such bad logic.

Most of the top players barely even watch football.