Outplayed? He made the points when it mattered the most! He crushed Federer in the decisive moments of the game.
Tennis 2019
- Thread starter Brophs
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Basically 7 imo since I can't see Nadal, injuries aside, not winning the next two Roland Garros editions - which would also put him on 20
Federer has a chance to win USO if he's fully recharged his batteries by then, but it's hard to see past Djokovic to win the next two GS.
He did burn out a few years back, was holding all 4 slams over one year and then had an issue with his shoulder, lost motivation and he didn't win any slam in 2017 so yes injuries at any time isn't something you can predict to disrupt momentum, Nadal's had plenty of that in his career.
Motivation shouldn't be an issue closing in on 20 though.
I think outplayed is strong but Federer made more of the running and the majority of the match stats are in his favour but, as you say, Djokovic won the important points. The guy is absolute nails. How he can win a final like that, playing maybe a 6 or 7 out of 10, is incredible.
Fed hasn't really figured at USO last two occasions. In 2017 he was taken to 5 setters in first two rounds and think he lost in quarter finals, last year he lost to John Millman of all players.Basically 7 imo since I can't see Nadal, injuries aside, not winning the next two Roland Garros editions - which would also put him on 20
Federer has a chance to win USO if he's fully recharged his batteries by then, but it's hard to see past Djokovic to win the next two GS.
He plays his season to peak at Wimbledon so US open is in the comedown period and obviously he dosen't have unlimited energy like he did when he was winning them in his 20s.
Think Fed will have a very good shot to win Wimbledon next year. He can still straight set most of the tour in under two hours so wastes little energy. When he was actually being outplayed in first set by Kei Nishikori he quickly solved that problem aswell.
Just needs to hope a servebot takes out Djokovic before a final, Querrey did in 2016 so it's not impossible and Nole had a pretty good run to the final this year.
Thought Fed was better player in set 1 but he couldn't step up to break when he had half a chance. Third set was even tighter. Thought it was a weird match to analyse. Federer is usually very strong in a tie break situation (think back to 2008 final) and yet he lost all three and played poorly in all, so many UEs off his forehand and backhand.
After pinching those sets you'd expect Nole to step it up and move ahead but instead his level completely dropped in set 2 and then from 2-2 in Set 4.
What I am certain though is in his limited time left on Tennis Court that Fed won't play a weaker Djokovic in a slam than what we saw yesterday. That was his chance and he knew it.
Outplayed might be a little strong but he was certainly the better player overall, had the introduction of the 12th game tie break not been introduced then I believe Fed would have won because he out served Djokovic through out the match.
Saying that I though Fed would have won 2 Championship Points up, cudos to Djokovic for holding his nerve and battling through that and ultimately winning
Quite disappointed for Roger not making a deserved GS title, but props to Nole who was mentally very strong, but physical condition gave Djokovic a bit of an edge.
It's really all about human body physics, and a 32 yo body has more explosion and top rhythm than a 37 y.o. body (hence, able to keep concentration for a bit longer periods).
It's really all about human body physics, and a 32 yo body has more explosion and top rhythm than a 37 y.o. body (hence, able to keep concentration for a bit longer periods).
Shows how much Tennis has changed aswell. When I first started watching in late 90s/early 00s you were generally seen as past your peak at 28. When Big 3 came along I think the oldest grand slam winner in modern era was 31.
Tennis one sport where sports science really has changed the dynamic of the contenders.
Djokovic is just a mental beast with an insane ability to just hang in matches irrespective of how below his best he may be. He's got the greatest mental strenght I've seen in tennis.
Djoko was definitely outplayed and I think it's one of the worst winning Slam finals he's played. It's a testament to his fighting ability that he managed to stay in this and win it.
He's been okay ish at the USO. Won it 2 years ago and made it to the SF before retiring last year. Even Federer only lost last year because he couldn't handle the humid conditions vs Millman.
He played and destroyed Anderson in the final last year. He's too good a returner in general to be upset by the big servers anymore unless they're just unbeleivably motivated like Nick could be vs him. Very few big servers right now stand out in terms of ability to take out any of the big 3. There's Anderson, Cilic and Querry and then maybe Nick.
Federer also became the oldest world #1 (since they started tracking it in 1973) at that season at age 31.
It’s amazing what has been made possible by just a better understanding of biomechanics and injury rehab.
Last edited:
Anderson was too gassed from his 20 hour semi final to be competitive in that one. In 2015 he took Nole to 5 sets (was actually two up) and then Querrey finished the job in 2016. Only of only two years since 2012 that Nole hasn't reached Wimbledon final.
Not saying any would certainly beat him but would be tougher than Ugo Humbert as fourth round opponent.
TBH neither of Federer or Djokovic had much of a challenge in their path to the SF because barely any challenges exist. Even the big servers are now either injured or just not good enough to keep going deep enough. The likes of Pella and RBA beating them shows that just raining down aces is getting easier to negotiate if you can return decently well. Federer and Djokovic will both still quite easily make the Finals even next year imo as long as they're fit.
Yeah that's fair. Been surprised how badly Cilic has done last two Wimbledons, has always been a very strong grass player but mentally seems done now.
Not great really that Zverev and Tsitsipas both went out first round for the future (will give Thiem a pass as he is just denied on clay by Nadal's greatness). Felix Auger Aliassime could have a run next year, he's still only 18 now so needs a bit more experience at slams. Did well at masters event earlier in the season.
Cilic has gone downhill since the AO final he made last year both in terms of performance and fitness. Him, Anderson and Isner have all struggled a bit with injuries now and Cilic particularly has always seemed very mentally weak to me.
As for the kids, I was disappointed with Tsitsipas the most but just not very surprised. There is nothing about these kids that gives you the hope they'll start competing regularly. Felix reaching R3 is great for his first appearance ever here but the match he lost was quite a disappointment.
Even if yesterday he didn’t show it, Djokovic in the past couple of years has become a more complete player overall with a much improved serve and that will help him get longevity even if he declines physically. Which I doubt it will happen fast anyway, the way he takes care of his body is remarkable and he rarely gets injured.
I agree he was pretty bad yesterday, not only was his serve bad but the returning was way below par for him. Definitely one of his worst Slam finals overall and the worst in which he’s won. I think it will give him loads of confidence to win like that though and with the hard court season coming up there’s a good chance he goes up a few levels now.
It was a huge match for their legacies. If Federer wins that, he’d be at 21 with Novak at 15. Don’t think Djokovic would have the motivation to make it a contest anymore. Now the race is truly on.
Those 2 match points were absolutely massive. One Federer Ace and he pulls 6 and 3 clear of his challengers and I don't think either would ever catch him then. Now, it makes the battle more interesting.
Fair play to Novak, at the end of the last decade he had 1 slam title to Rafa's 6 and Roger's 15.
and let's not forget that in both of US Open 2010 and 2011 semifinal matches Federer had 40:15 in final set and two match points and Djokovic still won both matches in the end. to return from the dead three times against Federer of all players... just crazy. but what he did yesterday was even more special than his US Open wins and will hurt Fed much more because it was simply his moment, it's his tournament and his crowd. unbelievable.
Last edited:
Djokovic is one of only 2 players to beat Nadal at RG, albeit Nadal was not at his best in that period, fitness wise. Rafa will be favourite, but who knows. Mind you, if Novak can beat healthy Rafa on clay and at RG, along with his 3 wins vs Fed at Wimbledon, it will add one more point in his favour in GOAT discussion.Basically 7 imo since I can't see Nadal, injuries aside, not winning the next two Roland Garros editions - which would also put him on 20
Federer has a chance to win USO if he's fully recharged his batteries by then, but it's hard to see past Djokovic to win the next two GS.
Federer has a chance of course given how he is playing. On hard court, we will see some of these #NextGen doing better than they did on grass and will make into 2nd week, which will make routes tricky for big 3. Who knows, maybe one of Nadal and Djokovic falls to upset loss (Nadal almost lost to Thiem last year) and Fed may need to get past only 1 of these 2 nemesis. For that, Fed too should not feck up himself against likes of Millman
Does Federer having a losing record against Djokovic and Nadal stop him from being the greatest ever? I know it does for me.
As an undisputed GOAT, yes, it does. The final analysis can only be done when all 3 retire.
Federer is by far the best to watch at his best
For me personally at least
Elegance and power all wrapped into one
For me personally at least
Elegance and power all wrapped into one
Same here. Fed inspired me as a kid to start training tennis, he was a proper idol for me.
Is it 4 times now that he has lost a final after having 2 championship points? What it could have been... I have to say that Nadal and Djokovic beat him by having a stronger mentality, probably a stronger self-belief in those moments too, which is weird considering what Roger has achieved already. But in professional sports, 1% difference is all that it takes.
It’s 3-0 now for Novak against Federer at Wimbledon finals, that’s insane to be honest.
Federer, Djokovic and Nadal are all just the epitome of great sportsmen. Tennis is so lucky to have them.
Think he's about 6-1 winning against Nadal since start of 2017, it's just clay that makes it worse than it should be due to Nadal obviously being the best clay court player ever by a million miles.
Head to head with Nole is actually closer than I thought it would be. Think it's 10-2 since 2014 though and losing three Wimbledon fans to him is not a good look at all for the Federer legacy.
He can only stop the rot by starting to beat Nole again in the normal atp tournaments and build from there. Not so long ago Nadal was constantly beating Federer on hard court but now it's totally flipped to Federer dominating that match up.
But how long can the man go on at this level? He seems to be ageless.
Nadal surprises me more. Has been playing at a ridiculously high level since 18 and winning slams (Fed didn't really mature until he was 22) and his all action game has resulted in many injury problems throughout his career.
Honestly though he'd be retired in his early 30s but he's still playing a full schedule. Different sport but similar to likes of Fabregas and Rooney playing top level from age of 16 and both burn out a bit in their early 30s.
While that may he true to an extent, it's a bit of a misconception as Nadal has chronic knee problems that have affected him from a young age. He also had feet issues as a kid which might have added to it.
I don't know the medical stuff fully, but think about Ledley King and Hargreaves, they are probably just to an even further extreme.
Did the crowd piss anyone else off yesterday? Talk about one eyed.
Mate they were booing Nole for legitimately asking an umpire few questions well as cheering his double faults and unforced errors in the grand slam final...I’m still amazed he managed to bottle it all up.
It's happened to him at other Wimbledon finals. He also got a worse reception when he played Federer in US open final in 2015 so he's used to it all by now.
I actually think he's a decent guy who should get better ovations. Always enjoy listening to his speeches when he wins or loses finals as he's usually fair in his comments.
Wouldn't say I rush home to watch his games if he isn't play Nadal, Federer or Murray but ultimately he's one of the finest Tennis players ever produced and should be appreciated for that.
Yeah, I don't get either. It's not like Federer is some plucky little underdog out there. Strange.
Federer and Nadal get worldwide support, it's really like a cult following for many of the fans. I went to watch Federer play at O2 arena in that Tour finals thing in 2017 and there was row of fans infront of me, all decked in Swiss colours and filming his entire match.
Think Nole is popular in Asia and also Australia open with all the titles and epic matches he's had there but in Europe and America he certainly gets the wrath of the crowd when he starts getting annoyed on court.
Number one on the charts but not in their hearts, that seems destined to be Novak's lot in the game.
The following Nadal has is a very healthy following. Crowds love him without becoming actively hostile to his opponents which is sadly a recurring theme with Federer crowds. Watching any tight Federer matches is just a better experience if you mute the TV.
Federer has a good chance at both the US open and the Australian Open. He nearly beat Djokovic here. There was very little in it and he was pretty brilliant all in all. However the question is whether he feels the hangover of this loss and if that begins the slow decline towards retirement. But based on this match alone he has a good chance. Djokovic isn't unbeatable at all, Federer and Nadal should fancy their chances against him.Basically 7 imo since I can't see Nadal, injuries aside, not winning the next two Roland Garros editions - which would also put him on 20
Federer has a chance to win USO if he's fully recharged his batteries by then, but it's hard to see past Djokovic to win the next two GS.
This was the worst version of Djokovic he could have faced and in hard courts things will be a lot different than in grass.
Obviously Federer has a chance but I wouldn’t take any conclusions from this match.