Yes. It's still a bit disorganised in terms of the patterns of play and pressing but at least we are trying patterns and pressing! The game against Spurs will be a good indicator of where we are.While I still think we should have gone for Pochettino, I was glad that even after we changed the whole team after 60 against Inter, the team looked like they knew what they were doing. Too often after Fergie, our players looked out of ideas in games and looked like they just met each other. I hope Ed backs the manager with a quality CB and CM this summer. A club with United's resources spending just 60 odd million this summer is unacceptable.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...hind-manchester-uniteds-gruelling-pre-season/Of all the extensive data amassed and dissected by a specialised sports science team led by Rich Hawkins, United’s head of athletic training services, in the fortnight the squad have been in Perth and Singapore, nothing has been more revealing than the news that the high intensity element of training has been up a staggering 50 per cent on the same two week period under Mourinho a year ago. “We’ve worked harder than ever to try to put things right,” Marcus Rashford, the United striker, said. “The sessions have been quite tough but, to be honest, I think that’s what we need, and if we compare it to this time last year we’re in much better condition.”
United’s players have covered 10 per cent more ground than at this stage last year. Two thirds of the sessions have been double training blocks and, in Perth alone, there were 14 sessions in the space of nine days. They even trained on the morning of their game against Perth Glory at the Optus Stadium.
Of course, anyone can get a player to run a lot but doing so within a wider tactical framework has been the focus. The way Solskjaer’s side implemented a coordinated, aggressive press high up the pitch against Inter Milan at Singapore’s National Stadium on Saturday was evidence of very specific work on the training field. It was more in keeping with what we have come to expect from Manchester City, Liverpool and Spurs and a world away from the leaden, ponderous, disjointed football United have mostly dealt in since Sir Alex Ferguson retired. The challenge now will be to keep repeating it. United travel to Shanghai on Monday and next up are Tottenham on Thursday, who impressed in a 3-2 win over Juventus on Sunday.
My advice to Ole would be to NOT listen to any of these past United players who think they know better. Most of them have been failures whenever they tried their stint at managing(Neville, Roy Keane etc) and are only big mouths in the media.Tweet
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While I do love how we’ve tried to play, and that we’re seeing so much of the youngsters (even if I expect to see less of them as the season approaches, naturally), this has been the most encouraging sight so far: Hardly ever have I seen a team change 6:7 players simultaneously and look as cohesive afterwards. Probably in Pep’s Barcelona, but it’s just not what I expect. It points towards clear ideas of how to play, implemented in the collective. We saw that kind of organisation with Van Gaal, for about a third of the pitch, and at the cost of any sort of attacking creativity and spark. Saturday, we saw it over at least two thirds of the pitch, and with much more expressivity from the players. They looked like having fun doing what they were told! For a while now at United, it’s always seemed like it had to be one or the other.While I still think we should have gone for Pochettino, I was glad that even after we changed the whole team after 60 against Inter, the team looked like they knew what they were doing. Too often after Fergie, our players looked out of ideas in games and looked like they just met each other. I hope Ed backs the manager with a quality CB and CM this summer. A club with United's resources spending just 60 odd million this summer is unacceptable.
That is all well and good. A run of poor results in the league quickly changes that though.I read today that James Tucker in the Telegraph claimed that the atmosphere at United has been superb despite the intense training-regime they have been put through. Shaw, McTominay and Rashford in interviews all saying their fitness is a lot better than last season.
Not exactly what Mark Ogden claimed 2 weeks ago when he said that there were a lot of complaining about OGS.
Do you think Pochettino would have come?While I still think we should have gone for Pochettino, I was glad that even after we changed the whole team after 60 against Inter, the team looked like they knew what they were doing. Too often after Fergie, our players looked out of ideas in games and looked like they just met each other. I hope Ed backs the manager with a quality CB and CM this summer. A club with United's resources spending just 60 odd million this summer is unacceptable.
I also think that Ole will put out an experienced team against Chelsea, but we may see Greenwood start, and possibly Tuanzebe if he continues to impress, and possibly Gomes on the bench. I also think that the team that faces Leicester on the last day of the prem season will be quite a bit different to the one that starts it. To me this season is one where we start to get back to a 'proper' Manchester United team, full of attacking intent, and delightful play.While I do love how we’ve tried to play, and that we’re seeing so much of the youngsters (even if I expect to see less of them as the season approaches, naturally), this has been the most encouraging sight so far: Hardly ever have I seen a team change 6:7 players simultaneously and look as cohesive afterwards. Probably in Pep’s Barcelona, but it’s just not what I expect. It points towards clear ideas of how to play, implemented in the collective. We saw that kind of organisation with Van Gaal, for about a third of the pitch, and at the cost of any sort of attacking creativity and spark. Saturday, we saw it over at least two thirds of the pitch, and with much more expressivity from the players. They looked like having fun doing what they were told! For a while now at United, it’s always seemed like it had to be one or the other.
Mourinho's whole training philosophy was that all training was game orientated so you'd train with the ball and pick up fitness at the same time rather than pure fitnesswork. Well not his but i forget the name of the professor.Is it credible that preseason fitness wasn’t as good under Mourinho? I find it hard to swallow, Mourinho was experienced enough to at least get that bit right.
The thing is we aren’t doing JUST fitness work, there’s plenty of ball work too. It’s just more intense running. Faster and harder, less recovery. Running to suit pressing.Mourinho's whole training philosophy was that all training was game orientated so you'd train with the ball and pick up fitness at the same time rather than pure fitnesswork. Well not his but i forget the name of the professor.
To get the lads back into shape it makes much more sense to do things the way we are now with pure fitness work. Especially if we're looking to elevate the team through effort rather than quality which looks to be the case.
We'll obviously be doing ball work as well but we're not just doing the same type of training harder no.The thing is we aren’t doing JUST fitness work, there’s plenty of ball work too. It’s just more intense running. Faster and harder, less recovery. Running to suit pressing.
If he really did value them, JLingZ would've been doing pre-season with Sheffield United.Tweet
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That’s a bit harsh. We had a World Cup, and therefore a more limited pre-season, just lost Faria too and were having a mare in terms of recruitment and morale (down to Jose, Pogba and Woodward).Is it credible that preseason fitness wasn’t as good under Mourinho? I find it hard to swallow, Mourinho was experienced enough to at least get that bit right.
I’m sorry, but where does this idea that we tried to implement this high/intensive press under LVG come from? We never succeeded, or even tried to implement a similar pressing system while he was here. I’ve seen it mentioned over several different threads over the last week.I'm sorry this idea that you can't play a high tempo style for the entire season without injury troubles has got to stop. This happened with Liverpool and Tottenham too fairly soon after Klopp and Pochettino arrived. I remember the same happened to us under LvG as well. That is why you have squad players. Additionally as players get more used to the intensity the frequency of the injuries also reduces.
Under Jose we played a very conservative style of football that relied on very physically demanding defending within our own 20 yards yes, but overall we covered less distances and - apart from the front 4 - had very few sprints compared to the other top teams. Its not that hard to imagine that the players were just not as capable of sustaining high intensity football when Ole came in.
We were good at winning the ball back and keeping. We had no clue what to do with it.I’m sorry, but where does this idea that we tried to implement this high/intensive press under LVG come from? We never succeeded, or even tried to implement a similar pressing system while he was here. I’ve seen it mentioned over several different threads over the last week.
Do you guys remember us under Louie? People fell asleep during games, because it was so incredibly ponderous.
We pressed well, but instead of playing vertical to capitalize on catching opponents out of formation, we routinely cycled the ball back to initiate our mind numbingly boring, methodical, and verve-less build-up play. If we had hired a pressing manager with more attacking spirit to replace LvG we'd probably have experienced more success than we have since.I’m sorry, but where does this idea that we tried to implement this high/intensive press under LVG come from? We never succeeded, or even tried to implement a similar pressing system while he was here. I’ve seen it mentioned over several different threads over the last week.
Do you guys remember us under Louie? People fell asleep during games, because it was so incredibly ponderous.
That's good to see.
I think we need to have some patience. It'll take two seasons (at least) not two games.Im sorry, talk is cheap.
Let's see this set of wasters and underachievers actually walk the walk in a few weeks time. We've got two extremely difficult games to start the season - if we take 4-6pts from those two games, I'll sit up and take notice. For now, I'm expecting a point from Chelsea at home and losing comfortably to Wolves away. Santo seems to have our number.
I don't think ANY manager gets 2 seasons without progress anymore, but I have faith that we will see forward movement under Ole.I think we need to have some patience. It'll take two seasons (at least) not two games.
That’s it really. I’m not sure we have the midfield for it yet, but it makes sense for this reason to ship off Lukaku. AWB and Maguire will definitely help in this regard but we probably still need a dynamic midfielder.I don't think ANY manager gets 2 seasons without progress anymore, but I have faith that we will see forward movement under Ole.
The fact he's recognised we need to press higher and run harder is music to our ears, we just need the right players to do it now.
I reckon we finish top 4 at a canter.Im sorry, talk is cheap.
Let's see this set of wasters and underachievers actually walk the walk in a few weeks time. We've got two extremely difficult games to start the season - if we take 4-6pts from those two games, I'll sit up and take notice. For now, I'm expecting a point from Chelsea at home and losing comfortably to Wolves away. Santo seems to have our number.
I think Ole saying he ‘values’ Keano’s managerial advice is a bit like me saying I ‘value’ my old racist Uncle’s life style admonitions.If he really did value them, JLingZ would've been doing pre-season with Sheffield United.
Ole's gone from Fergie clone to Guardiola lite in six months.
I tried to tell people on here he actually prefer his teams to control possession, as well as being able to switch over to counter-attacking when needed. His first Molde team even went abit too far with the focus on possession, imo. If he’s able to coach it properly is the question.Ole's gone from Fergie clone to Guardiola lite in six months.
Possibly. But that would just mean Woodward spending £60m next summer and we then struggle to repeat the feat in 2020/21.I reckon we finish top 4 at a canter.
He was always fascinated with Klopp's pressing and Pep's footballing ideology. Some just want to think him as a glorified cheerleader who has no idea about management when in fact he has his style which we are slowly but surely seeing.Ole's gone from Fergie clone to Guardiola lite in six months.
Its your choice to expand one data point into a pattern. We invested heavily in LvG's second summer when we'd made top 4. The only time we didn't heavily recruit was last summer where Mourinho seemed to want a bunch of 30 year olds at the expense of all our young talents.Possibly. But that would just mean Woodward spending £60m next summer and we then struggle to repeat the feat in 2020/21.
I know its overly negative but for me, the writing is blatantly on the wall for this club - if we get top 4, a lack of investment will mean we struggle to get it the following season, and the cycle will just repeat itself but with a different manager at the helm every two seasons.
You must mean 30 year olds?Its your choice to expand one data point into a pattern. We invested heavily in LvG's second summer when we'd made top 4. The only time we didn't heavily recruit was last summer where Mourinho seemed to want a bunch of 20 year old at the expense of all our young talents.
I agree, it seems that the target for Manutd is now purely top 4 rather than winning championships or Champions Leagues. Qualifying is enough to keep the board happy.Possibly. But that would just mean Woodward spending £60m next summer and we then struggle to repeat the feat in 2020/21.
I know its overly negative but for me, the writing is blatantly on the wall for this club - if we get top 4, a lack of investment will mean we struggle to get it the following season, and the cycle will just repeat itself but with a different manager at the helm every two seasons.
If you don't run - you are not that likely to get injuries. We didn't run under MourinhoThat’s a bit harsh. We had a World Cup, and therefore a more limited pre-season, just lost Faria too and were having a mare in terms of recruitment and morale (down to Jose, Pogba and Woodward).
Jose’s teams do not pick up that many injuries (that you can’t play through) and his tactical periodisation (Victor Frade) is renowned.
We’ll see in the coming months whether we can sustain Ole’s preferred style without a ton of injuries (remember, 3 hamstrings in one match). But things are looking good early on!
So true, and that's exactly what's been happening since 2013!Possibly. But that would just mean Woodward spending £60m next summer and we then struggle to repeat the feat in 2020/21.
I know its overly negative but for me, the writing is blatantly on the wall for this club - if we get top 4, a lack of investment will mean we struggle to get it the following season, and the cycle will just repeat itself but with a different manager at the helm every two seasons.
It's the board not Ole. The manager is trying to keep the squad happy, unlike Mourinho last summer. But we have always been shit at selling since Woodward came in. The manager changes but the problem persists.Personally I cannot decide if we are stuck with the deadwood due to not being able to find buyers or Ole's lack of ruthlessness with them.
