Zidane sack watch - 19/20

Bwuk

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I don’t think their front line is particularly impressive.

They don’t really have a right sided forward, Hazard is excellent but unless he ups his goals massively he doesn’t score enough.

Benzema/Jovic will have a lot of pressure to score.

None of the midfield really make that third man run, and if Casemiro isn’t fit they don’t have someone who can screen the back 4.

I think they need reinforcements, not sure this current squad is good enough to beat Barcelona to the title.
 

Casanova85

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I don’t think their front line is particularly impressive.

They don’t really have a right sided forward, Hazard is excellent but unless he ups his goals massively he doesn’t score enough.

Benzema/Jovic will have a lot of pressure to score.

None of the midfield really make that third man run, and if Casemiro isn’t fit they don’t have someone who can screen the back 4.

I think they need reinforcements, not sure this current squad is good enough to beat Barcelona to the title.
Or Atlético.

Or Juve, City, Liverpool, PSG.
 

Peyroteo

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@Peyroteo If you want to pin Aguero missing a penalty and Laporte and Ederson shitting the bed on Pep go ahead. Just hints at an agenda, when there are a bunch of campaigns where one can rightly blame Pep.
If you want to pin Guardiola benching his best player for no reason, getting his tactics wrong and having the team underperforming against an inferior squad for the third year in a row in a vital CL game on Aguero, Laporte and Ederson then go ahead. Just hints at an agenda.

Seriously though, it can't ever be just the players or just the manager's fault. You can't just simply remove all responsability from him when Aguero misses a penalty and then give it right back to him as soon as Aguero scores a wondergoal.

I don't have any problem with Pep. Like I said, along with Klopp in my opinion he's the best manager in the world. It's just weird how much credit he gets for things that aren't his responsability and how many excuses he gets whenever he gets things wrong.

Sorry for the off topic discussion by the way, I'll leave it at that.
 

RooneyLegend

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Its a continuation, its not out of the blue.
Imagine Ole fecked per season, would we be calm? Madrid finished the season as bad as we did
Zidane wasnt responsible for the mess of last season and they've bought lots of new players.
 

Canagel

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He would have to manage the team awfully to be sacked which I doubt he's going to happen. Everytime he got under pressure he manages to pull something out.

Don't think they'll be winning any big trophies however not for this campaign at least.
 

cyberman

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Zidane wasnt responsible for the mess of last season and they've bought lots of new players.
They've bought like two starters? And one is an unproven kid from a mid table German side who plays in his favourote sons position.
And he's already shown he cant turn it around with this squad.
Zidanes erratic behaviour is giving a lot away IMO.
 

GatoLoco

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What Zidane used from Guardiola at Madrid was the idea of positional play how to attack - fullbacks out wide (Marcelo and Carvajal), wingers coming inside (CR7 and Bale) and midfielders as protectors of counterattack (Modric, Casemiro, Kroos). If you think about it it is very similar to Pep's Barca model. The main difference is that Zidane did not require from his players to build from the back constantly and Real didnt keep always the numerical superiority across the pitch wich is very important aspect of the positional play. Also the pressing of Madrid was not as intense as it is needed for a Pep team to be safe when losing possession (with quick counterpress). Thats why Zidane's Madrid was and is very vulnerable to counterattacks..
You just described a few dozens of teams I can think of, PepG. Very attacking full backs, wingers coming inside and a midfield line of three giving balance. It seems a pretty standard approach in countless teams in modern era.

The closest to Guardiola I can think of at Madrid was Lopetegui, and even in that case you can still see a lot of differences.
 
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Mourinhonista

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Especially Barca fans don't like it, but why should Guardiola's achievements rank higher than what Zidane did?
Guardiola did better in the Spanish league, but Zidane did what matters most and won CL after CL. Bayern or City didn't hire Guardiola to win the league, he was hired to win the biggest cup in European football. The beatings City took against less talented sides are sack worthy, IMO. Three years in a row and not one Champions-League semi final to show for but pocketing millions of pounds are an absolute embarrassment. Guardiola needs to outspend everyone in the league to get it over the line. But in Europe even City can't do it.

Maybe Zidane gets the sack this season, because Real are ruthless in contrast to City. Guardiola didn't win a single cup in his first season in England despite blowing everyone out of the water in the transfer market.

Zidane gets called a prick in here (mostly because he openly talks about Bale leaving and bringing in Pogba)
but the reports of how Guardiola disrespected the fans during their asia tour and his overall links to despicable regimes just for the money show for me more characteristics of a prick. Overall nothing i would want the club to be associated with.
 

Gasolin

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Would OGS really get sacked by getting knocked out of the EL though? I'm not so sure.
I think the question is for Zidane... I’m not sure as well, but I think yeah, he will get sacked. Pères will go nuts.
 

RooneyLegend

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Especially Barca fans don't like it, but why should Guardiola's achievements rank higher than what Zidane did?
Guardiola did better in the Spanish league, but Zidane did what matters most and won CL after CL. Bayern or City didn't hire Guardiola to win the league, he was hired to win the biggest cup in European football. The beatings City took against less talented sides are sack worthy, IMO. Three years in a row and not one Champions-League semi final to show for but pocketing millions of pounds are an absolute embarrassment. Guardiola needs to outspend everyone in the league to get it over the line. But in Europe even City can't do it.

Maybe Zidane gets the sack this season, because Real are ruthless in contrast to City. Guardiola didn't win a single cup in his first season in England despite blowing everyone out of the water in the transfer market.

Zidane gets called a prick in here (mostly because he openly talks about Bale leaving and bringing in Pogba)
but the reports of how Guardiola disrespected the fans during their asia tour and his overall links to despicable regimes just for the money show for me more characteristics of a prick. Overall nothing i would want the club to be associated with.
Wait, did you just say that Pep should be sacked?
 

Cee90

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I wonder if Zidane will be sacked before Ole, I wouldn't completely rule it out anyway.
 

Mourinhonista

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Wait, did you just say that Pep should be sacked?
In my opinion their performances under Guardiola's watch in the Champions-League for three years running leave a lot to be desired for. Overall it depends on what the Sheikhs anticipated by hiring the Catalan. I mean before his reign City won the league more than once and they knew how to win an English cup. Do they really want to pay Guardiola over 15 mil. a season just to go out against either small sides like Monaco or other English teams? Even before Guardiola started they played very good football. How many of the academy players are making the rounds? A potential superstar and probably a 100 mil. player Sancho left for peanuts.

To put things into perspective, of course Guardiola is a very good coach and one of the best in the world. Nevertheless i wouldn't underpinning what someone like Zidane achieved who especially this season has got a much harder job. One season without a trophy at Madrid and it's most likely gameover. Barca have the better squad and apart from Hazard they didn't buy any other superstar, they desperately need Pogba, IMO.
 

Zehner

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What's there to argue? You didn't make any arguments. You just give your opinions which I blatantly disagree with.



You think Guardiola's system is the best for the Champions League. I disagree. You think if City and Liverpool meet in a CL tie 10 times, City win more often. I disagree. You think Heynckes's Bayern and Zidane's Madrid are heavily influenced by Guardiola. I disagree.



@adexkola strawman number 1.

So what he was one of his role models? Zidane's Madrid took more from Benitez than they did for Guardiola ffs. They played nothing like a Guardiola team at all other than the fact they had technical players and a midfield who could control games.

The entire principles of their game were the exact opposite of that of a Guardiola team, their build up, pressing and attacking mechanics were completely different. Is that enough a disagreement? I'm not sure what's even there to argue with given how incredibly different our opinions are on the matter. Giving Guardiola credit for Heynckes' Madrid and Zidane's Madrid because they had lots of possession is just wrong.



My turn? I think every single thing you just claimed as fact there is entirely not true. If you think any team that averages out over 60% possession per game is a direct result of Guardiola then no shit you're going to give him credit for a lot of things.

The problem is when teams win, you pretend they're playing Cruyff-like football. When they lose, you say it's either luck or that it wasn't Cruyff-like football. Then of course that in your mind they rarely lose.

As if great teams didn't have lots of possession and could build from the back before both Guardiola or Cruyff...
I thought discussing with you was only a pain in the ass if it was about Cristiano. Got tobadmit I was wrong there.

First of all, I'm not giving him credit for the Madrid and Bayern teams and I'm not sure where you even got this from. I mentioned those examples as evidence that the style in general has been successfully applied in the CL.

Second, Zidane's Madrid was heavily influenced by Pep's Barca and Bayern, like it or not. Everyone who saw the supercup match a few years ago should agree on that. Real dominated Barca in that game in the same fashion Barca dominated Madrid in Mourinho's first clasico. And also the tactical instructions to some players were in rypical Guardiola fashion.
The use of the fullbacks, especially Marcelo, was very similar to how he used Alaba and Lahm at Bayern. The midfield was assembled after the role model of Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta with Casemiro, Kroos and Modric almost exactly fulfilling the same roles their Barca counterparts had. Besides that, Zidane visited Guardiola's training at Bayern in order to learn from him and later claimed that Pep is a role model for him as a coach.
The primary difference was in the final third where Madrid indeed were more versatile and less idealistic, even relying on crosses and long shots occasionally. That aside, Zidane's Madrid played Cruyff style in 90% of their match ups.

I'm still waiting for you to say anything about the actual argumemts I made. So far all I read was 'bjt Zidane doesn't play like Pep' and 'you're a cruyff fanboy'.
 

RooneyLegend

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In my opinion their performances under Guardiola's watch in the Champions-League for three years running leave a lot to be desired for. Overall it depends on what the Sheikhs anticipated by hiring the Catalan. I mean before his reign City won the league more than once and they knew how to win an English cup. Do they really want to pay Guardiola over 15 mil. a season just to go out against either small sides like Monaco or other English teams? Even before Guardiola started they played very good football. How many of the academy players are making the rounds? A potential superstar and probably a 100 mil. player Sancho left for peanuts.

To put things into perspective, of course Guardiola is a very good coach and one of the best in the world. Nevertheless i wouldn't underpinning what someone like Zidane achieved who especially this season has got a much harder job. One season without a trophy at Madrid and it's most likely gameover. Barca have the better squad and apart from Hazard they didn't buy any other superstar, they desperately need Pogba, IMO.
They've never done what they've done in england before(5 out of the 6 domestic trophies while averaging 99 points a season). Mind you Tottenham got past them by sheer luck. You dont fire a coach that's doing what hes doing, especially when you've never reached these heights. A CL will come, its only the 3rd year of this side being at this level. Only a fool would bet against him not wining it some time soon at City.
 

Peyroteo

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I thought discussing with you was only a pain in the ass if it was about Cristiano. Got tobadmit I was wrong there.

First of all, I'm not giving him credit for the Madrid and Bayern teams and I'm not sure where you even got this from. I mentioned those examples as evidence that the style in general has been successfully applied in the CL.
Credit to him, credit to his system/style... same thing. Might aswell argue Van Gaal's style is the best in order to win the Champions League because he influenced lots of teams that have won it since.

Sorry that anyone that disagrees with you is a pain in the ass. You should just put me on ignore if my posts bother you.

Second, Zidane's Madrid was heavily influenced by Pep's Barca and Bayern, like it or not. Everyone who saw the supercup match a few years ago should agree on that.
Well, I watched it and I profoundly disagree on that so how does this work?

I watched 99% of all Madrid matches under Zidane and they were absolutely not heavily influenced by Pep's Barcelona or Bayern. They might have played with a simlar style in some games but the beauty of that team is they heavily adapted to their opponent which again, isn't really a Guardiola thing.

If there's one manager that influenced that team and Zidane it was Ancelotti, not Guardiola.

The use of the fullbacks, especially Marcelo, was very similar to how he used Alaba and Lahm at Bayern. The midfield was assembled after the role model of Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta with Casemiro, Kroos and Modric almost exactly fulfilling the same roles their Barca counterparts had. Besides that, Zidane visited Guardiola's training at Bayern in order to learn from him and later claimed that Pep is a role model for him as a coach.
The primary difference was in the final third where Madrid indeed were more versatile and less idealistic, even relying on crosses and long shots occasionally. That aside, Zidane's Madrid played Cruyff style in 90% of their match ups.
Zidane visited Pep once, gave a nice quote about him on a press conference... so what? He did the same for plenty of other managers.

The use of the fullbacks is the exact same as every top team on the planet for ages with them pushing up. Heynckes was doing it at Bayern before Pep even came around so how did Zidane get that from Pep? Hell, MArcelo and Carvajal were the exact same under Ancelotti in the previous season before Zidane was even their manager... probably even more forward thinking then and more Guardiola-like in 2014/15 than in the following seasons under Zidane.

The midfield was also Benitez's idea. Did Zidane also get inspiration from Jorge Jesus for his 4-4-2 with two mobile forwards? Did he get inspiration from Mourinho to put Casemiro in front of the defense and using defense wingers? Did he get inspiration from Ancelotti on how to attack set pieces, build from the back and manage the dressing room? There are thousands of different things in that Zidane team that would look similar to other teams of the past and present.

They played nothing like a Guardiola team would play at all and neither did Heynckes' Bayern. It was Ancelotti's Madrid with a defensive midfielder in there, that's the main tactical difference between 2014/15 and after. Zidane's main tactical strength is that he knows how to adapt during matches, his strength isn't in tactical preparation or in building a specific style for his team to play. It's the exact opposite of Pep. Watch some of Zidane's teamtalks that are available on youtube and compare it to Pep's just to see how different their approaches to football are.

I'm still waiting for you to say anything about the actual argumemts I made. So far all I read was 'bjt Zidane doesn't play like Pep' and 'you're a cruyff fanboy'.
I went through the post you linked and replied to everything.

Maybe you should read it again, or read your own arguments first.
 
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Mourinhonista

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They've never done what they've done in england before(5 out of the 6 domestic trophies while averaging 99 points a season). Mind you Tottenham got past them by sheer luck. You dont fire a coach that's doing what hes doing, especially when you've never reached these heights. A CL will come, its only the 3rd year of this side being at this level. Only a fool would bet against him not wining it some time soon at City.
Of course, back to back championships is an impressive feat. Over three seasons Guardiola seem to have won 5 out of 9 trophies which of course is very good. Still they've got the most money and most of the best players. I'm sure the Sheikhs want(ed) European glory, that's the thing Guardiola has to deliver.

Tottenham scored lots of goals, it's a recurring problem with Guardiola that during the knockout stages they have serious problems performing away from home. At the helm of Bayern Munich he had similar problems, it's in Guardiola's DNA. Pellegrini reached a Champions-League semi final, something that Guardiola during three seasons can only dream of. Guardiola has been coaching Bayern and City for 6 years, he hasn't even made it to the final once. In comparison Liverpool under Klopp's tutelage seem to be almost impossible to beat over a two leg round.

Guardiola tried to cut off Aguero, IMO, luckily it didn't come to fruition. Next season they're without Kompany and i still think Agueros' days are numbered. So i'm not sure City will become so much better under him in the Champions-League. It's a mental problem, he overthinks, tries to be too clever for his own good and learns nothing new and his superstar players can't bail him out. New season, same old same old, i guess.

Zidane on the other hand has to have more time on his hands, especially in Europe. The last Champions-League which Guardiola won was in 2011 and to this day he's had seven new tries. Not very good. Personally i'd take Zidane over Guardiola.
 

VJ1762

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Zidane will at the very least, finish second or third, and maybe progress to the CL semi-finals. That will be an excellent season by United standards, but disastrous by Madrid standards. Shows the gulf between the two clubs.

Anyways, I find all this talk of sacking him very pre-mature. We are not even a single game into the season. And who are they going to replace him with? Allegri? His football is not exactly appealing either.

I am more worried about what Ole is going to do. The poor man has been let down by the Glazers and Woodward this transfer window.
 

Bastian

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Would OGS really get sacked by getting knocked out of the EL though? I'm not so sure.
Touché. I'm just anticipating the schadenfreude after watching that friendly mate. You'd of course be overwhelming favourites, but I'd love to get the chance to play you lot in a knock-out this season :cool:
 

Gandalf Greyhame

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A sack watch, really?

Yes, they don't have Ronaldo. But with they have strengthened LB with Mendy, gotten a >20 goals+assists LW in Hazard, signed the very promising Jovic for CF and added another strong CB in Eder Militao. I think their squad is in a far stronger place than it was last year.

They'll be 2nd in the league and reach at least the CL semis again. I wouldn't put it past them to actually go on and win it again, with Bale of all people scoring important goals along the way.
 

Harry190

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So what, just retire and don't manage again?

Because it's very unlikely Zidane will top his fabulous start with Madrid.
No, move to something else. I personally thought Mourinho made the same mistake going back to Chelsea. Something was off. Something is off here as well. It was rushed. He's a top manager but it looks like it was a matter of question of timing and luck. Had France not won, he'd have been there now.
 

RedPed

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A sack watch, really?

Yes, they don't have Ronaldo. But with they have strengthened LB with Mendy, gotten a >20 goals+assists LW in Hazard, signed the very promising Jovic for CF and added another strong CB in Eder Militao. I think their squad is in a far stronger place than it was last year.

They'll be 2nd in the league and reach at least the CL semis again. I wouldn't put it past them to actually go on and win it again, with Bale of all people scoring important goals along the way.
They'll be third at best this season. I'll be surprised if Zidane lasts the whole season.
 

Shinjch

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Their summer on and off the pitch has been far from inspiring. Would not be expecting a good season from them. Though Zidane's luck and magic touch in the champions league is yet to be beaten.
 

TsuWave

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Their summer on and off the pitch has been far from inspiring. Would not be expecting a good season from them. Though Zidane's luck and magic touch in the champions league is yet to be beaten.
They bought Hazard, Mendy, Jovic and Militao. How is that not an inspiring summer?

I’m asking because you said it hasn’t been one on and off the pitch.
 

GatoLoco

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I knew Zidane's jeans couldn't anticipate anything good for this season.

 

Shinjch

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They bought Hazard, Mendy, Jovic and Militao. How is that not an inspiring summer?

I’m asking because you said it hasn’t been one on and off the pitch.
I think only Hazard will be a starter for the majority of the season, and I do think he is a great player and signing. The others are more future investments. This is a team that needs major surgery to be competitive at the top level, especially in the midfield, which has not been addressed. When compared with the talk of who they would be getting at the start of the summer I feel this is underwhelming for them, a club that is used to getting whoever they want.

I feel when Zidane came back he was given assurances over a lot of the old guard leaving and the squad being revamped accordingly. Particularly Bale, which is proving to be a massive headache for the club now.
 

dannyrhinos89

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Zidane is probably just jealous that bale has achieved way more than he ever managed as a player.
 

Cee90

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Why did you feel it necessary to wonder out loud if OGS would outlast Zidane?
What is your problem? :lol:

It was a perfectly normal question to ask. I am curious as to which manager out of the two will last longer.

With 38k posts, I thought you were aware of how forums work. However, just for your benefit it works like this: I have to type it out so that I can try to have a discussion with someone on the internet about it. I'm not going to get anywhere if I just think about it in my head you see.

Anyway, I love Ole and want him to succeed here.

Just admit you were wrong and made a bad judgement and move on.
 
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dannyrhinos89

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Yeah, he really must be...

In the same amount of games for real madrid bale has scored over double zidane did, he's assisted roughly the same but most important bale has won over double the amount of major trophies as zidane.

Probably hurts a club legend to be embarrassingly outdone by a constantly injured "reject" that cant even speak Spanish.