[UncleBob]

I ask both him and his Dad before sharing anything..

Lindelof is only better than Smalling on the ball and everything else is up for debate. My personal opinion is that Smalling is the better pure defender.

How ? Why ?

 

[Adnan]

How ? Why ?

Superior in physical duels, superior at winning aerial battles and much stronger at defending space in behind due to being quicker and more athletic.

 

[Fastnfurious]

That was top speed in that particular training session, anyone with a working set of eyes can see who’s faster between Tuanzebe and Lindelof.

Perhaps, but even so the difference between them in speed is insignificant. Lindelöf was the fastest of the two in this particular training session, maybe Tuanzebe is faster the day after. My point is that the argument that Tuanzebe somehow is considered to be that much faster than Lindelöf is just not true.

Do you not have eyes?

Well, when it comes to speed measuring I guess I trust speed measuring equipment more than I trust my eyes. Impressive if your eyes is that accurate.

 

[Ekeke]

Tuanzebe is not faster than Lindelöf, Lindelöf is faster than Tuanzebe. Not exactly a great margin, but still. Stats from Lukakus post on social media (IG?) earlier this summer when he hit back at everyone calling him overweight and lazy by leaking test results from preseason. Swedish paper made an article about it. Dalot fastest player, Shaw the slowest.

https://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/fotboll/a/b5erjv/lukaku-svarar-pa-hanen--lacker-testresultat

We'll see this season that Tuanzabe is faster. I've already seen it, you just need to watch more.

A preseason training session doesnt tell you much at all, you should know that by Dalot being fastest and Shaw slowest

 

[UncleBob]

Superior in physical duels, superior at winning aerial battles and much stronger at defending space in behind due to being quicker and more athletic.

And slightly more essential for actual defending, Smalling struggles to read the play, to identify which space is the most dangerous and as a result his positioning is poor. Who the feck then cares if he's superior in physical duels and/or superior at winning aerial battles, it has nothing to do with being a better pure defender.

 

[A-man]

To say someone is fast in football is actually not a very straightforward statement, because what is fast? Not even in track and field can you say who is the fastest. Is Usain Bolts 100 meters in 9:59 faster than Kipchoge's 2:01 marathon?

In football factors like acceleration, reaction, reading the game, top speed, high speed over long distances are all important. And what if you're fast but only have stamina for 3-4 really fast sprints in a match?

 

[Fastnfurious]

We'll see this season that Tuanzabe is faster. I've already seen it, you just need to watch more.

A preseason training session doesnt tell you much at all, you should know that by Dalot being fastest and Shaw slowest

I agree, just one preseason test is not enough data. But given that Lindelöf was faster in this particular test, I really doubt that Tuanzebe would beat him 10-0 in ten tests. It could just as easy be the other way around. And even if Tuanzebe - or Lindelöf - won 10-0, the margin to the other one would most likely be pretty small. To state with a great deal of certainty that one of the two is a rocket compared to the other is just nuts.

 

[Ekeke]

And slightly more essential for actual defending, Smalling struggles to read the play, to identify which space is the most dangerous and as a result his positioning is poor. Who the feck then cares if he's superior in physical duels and/or superior at winning aerial battles, it has nothing to do with being a better pure defender.

 

[Adnan]

And slightly more essential for actual defending, Smalling struggles to read the play, to identify which space is the most dangerous and as a result his positioning is poor. Who the feck then cares if he's superior in physical duels and/or superior at winning aerial battles, it has nothing to do with being a better pure defender.

The only reason Smalling doesn't play currently is due to his average ability on the ball. He was never close to a peak Rio Ferdinand at anytime in his career so he needs to be judged accordingly. Lindelof is more comfortable on the ball and i'm happy with having players who are comfortable in possession and have always believed that to be the way forward. But your criticism of Smalling can also easily apply to Lindelof who has had more than his fair share of poor performances but didn't have the pace or athleticism to compensate.

I do prefer Lindelof over Smalling though, due to the Swede being the better ball player. But Smalling was a much better CB than he's given credit for.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

To say someone is fast in football is actually not a very straightforward statement, because what is fast? Not even in track and field can you say who is the fastest. Is Usain Bolts 100 meters in 9:59 faster than Kipchoge's 2:01 marathon?

In football factors like acceleration, reaction, reading the game, top speed, high speed over long distances are all important. And what if you're fast but only have stamina for 3-4 really fast sprints in a match?

Acceleration over shorter distances is the most important given that football is best characterised as a series of short sprints when it comes to running.

Tuanzebe is absolutely rapid for a centre back over short distances. He also holds the Guinness world record for fastest person to clear the board in a game of Hungry Hippos.

 

[UncleBob]

The only reason Smalling doesn't play currently is due to his average ability on the ball. He was never close to a peak Rio Ferdinand at anytime in his career so he needs to be judged accordingly. Lindelof is more comfortable on the ball and i'm happy with having players who are comfortable in possession and have always believed that to be the way forward. But your criticism of Smalling can also easily apply to Lindelof who has had more than his fair share of poor performances but didn't have the pace or athleticism to compensate.

I do prefer Lindelof over Smalling though, due to the Swede being the better ball player. But Smalling was a much better CB than he's given credit for.

It's a combination, Smalling doesn't play because his ability on the ball is about just as good as his overall defending. It's bizarre to see the amount of people in here overrate his actual defending, believing that people don't rate Smalling simply because he's not good on the ball, christ. Smalling simply struggles to read the game and position himself, as a result he's often leaving dangerous space wide open as he goes in to defend the least dangerous space.

 

[Adnan]

It's a combination, Smalling doesn't play because his ability on the ball is about just as good as his overall defending. It's bizarre to see the amount of people in here overrate his actual defending, believing that people don't rate Smalling simply because he's not good on the ball, christ. Smalling simply struggles to read the game and position himself, as a result he's often leaving dangerous space wide open as he goes in to defend the least dangerous space.

The reason he's been playing is because we don't have world class stalwarts at the back like Rio and Vidic anymore. And the ones we bought are either complete liabilities or Lindelof who's taken 18 months to settle and there's still question marks surrounding him from fans/journos/pundits etc.

Smalling to his credit has had many good games for United. The game last season v PSG away was a particular stand out IMO. People can't seem to look beyond his one glaring flaw and forget the numerous good performances he's put out for the club at a time when the club was going through some very bad times.

 

[A-man]

Acceleration over shorter distances is the most important given that football is best characterised as a series of short sprints when it comes to running.

Tuanzebe is absolutely rapid for a centre back over short distances. He also holds the Guinness world record for fastest person to clear the board in a game of Hungry Hippos.

I would say that, too, but also add good reading of the game to get a quick start and the stamina to be able to repeat the sprint several times throughout the game. I mean being fast is about being faster than your opponent, and just as important at minute 5 as minute 85.

As I wrote before, I think the major question with Tuanzebe will be if he can manage to play the type of game Ole wants. Some say his passing is poor, some say it is good but in reality we haven't ever seen him play the kind of football United are trying to play right now. Speed is good, but I doubt it will be a big costly issue with Lindelof/Maguire.

 

[Ekeke]

I agree, just one preseason test is not enough data. But given that Lindelöf was faster in this particular test, I really doubt that Tuanzebe would beat him 10-0 in ten tests. It could just as easy be the other way around. And even if Tuanzebe - or Lindelöf - won 10-0, the margin to the other one would most likely be pretty small. To state with a great deal of certainty that one of the two is a rocket compared to the other is just nuts.

I have no idea how they'd do in tests. I've just seen Tuanzabe be quick across the ground on the pitch and Lindelof I havent

 

[Red00012]

Masons buddy is very torn between Axel , Lindelof and Smalling.

 

[Cassidy]

Perhaps, but even so the difference between them in speed is insignificant. Lindelöf was the fastest of the two in this particular training session, maybe Tuanzebe is faster the day after. My point is that the argument that Tuanzebe somehow is considered to be that much faster than Lindelöf is just not true.



Well, when it comes to speed measuring I guess I trust speed measuring equipment more than I trust my eyes. Impressive if your eyes is that accurate.

The eye test and Shaws position in the table plus Shaws comment on social media should be enough to tell you that the “test” wasn't trying to measure players top speed at their maximums.

 

[Foxbatt]

As A Man says it not actual speed in such a short distance that is important in football. It is also your reaction time and reading of the game. As Cruijff used to say that he is not faster just quicker off the mark than most people.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I would say that, too, but also add good reading of the game to get a quick start and the stamina to be able to repeat the sprint several times throughout the game. I mean being fast is about being faster than your opponent, and just as important at minute 5 as minute 85.

As I wrote before, I think the major question with Tuanzebe will be if he can manage to play the type of game Ole wants. Some say his passing is poor, some say it is good but in reality we haven't ever seen him play the kind of football United are trying to play right now. Speed is good, but I doubt it will be a big costly issue with Lindelof/Maguire.

I agree. One of Smalling’s big issues is first touch and the getting set to move the ball on, it takes him ages. Lindelof is good in that regard. I don’t think a CB has to do too many high intensity sprints compared to other players really. Ax is unproven at the top level for sure so it’s not a given that he will take Lindelof’s place at all. I’d add composure under pressure of playing in big games too. It’s something you can’t predict.

 

[Zlatans Knee]

He made a move to CB in his 30s when he had lost pace. That's not me saying that but people connected to Maldini and Milan. He played his peak years at LB which was the point I made. The better version of Maldini was at fullback and most AC Milan fans even agree with that.

It's not me digging a hole for myself. It's rather the poster in question and yourself failing to understand what I said in my original post. There's a difference between me saying Maldini played majority of his peak years at LB, compared to Maldini played most of his career at LB.

This is what you wrote earlier "My point was that Maldini played as a fullback for most of his career and peak years. So not sure why you're bringing up a fullback to make a point on a CB." So unless I am incapable of understanding English...you said that he played as a fullback for most of his career AND peak years. And 11101 proved your point wrong with facts. The rest of your piece is just opinion unless you can back it up with any facts or evidence.

 

[Adnan]

This is what you wrote earlier "My point was that Maldini played as a fullback for most of his career and peak years. So not sure why you're bringing up a fullback to make a point on a CB." So unless I am incapable of understanding English...you said that he played as a fullback for most of his career AND peak years. And 11101 proved your point wrong with facts. The rest of your piece is just opinion unless you can back it up with any facts or evidence.

'peak years' is clearly mentioned. Maybe I didn't come across as clearly as I normally do due to multi-tasking at the time, but it's pretty clear what I meant. You seem to be quite desperate to start an argument over a little detail though so i'll make my self clear below.

Maldini played as a fullback for the majority of his peak years. He moved to CB in his 30s due to not having the pace to play at LB to the extremely high level any longer in the best league in the world at the time.

 

[Zlatans Knee]

I don't care what some lunatics said. Four U21 games are not considered as "played a lot at right-back" because he hasn't. It's a fact. It's not an opinion. And by the way, he's not big and strong and fast, and that counts as they don't really know what they are talking about so that's that. He has other qualities such as calmness, reading of the game, qualities on the ball.

I can see there is not much point in discussing with you because you are able to dismiss out of hand other people's views. People who have been following Lindelof his entire career here in Sweden (I am referring to some of the lunatics that you mentioned). I only mentioned those 4 games to give you some numbers, he has played 13 games for the under 21s and many of those were at right back and he has also played a couple for the National team at right back. That qualifies as a lot for me. The rest of the information pointed you to the end of the description about him, namely that he reads the game well and has good qualities on the ball. Both of which you agreed about. So thanks. He is also fast by the way (as mentioned many times in this thread by other people).

 

[A-man]

I agree. One of Smalling’s big issues is first touch and the getting set to move the ball on, it takes him ages. Lindelof is good in that regard. I don’t think a CB has to do too many high intensity sprints compared to other players really. Ax is unproven at the top level for sure so it’s not a given that he will take Lindelof’s place at all. I’d add composure under pressure of playing in big games too. It’s something you can’t predict.

That's true and hopefully Ole has some kind of plan how to introduce Tuanzebe to bigger games, including the mental part. To put him on the bench before the other 4 CBs must somehow have increased his confidence. The bad thing about being a young CB is that it is not really a position that you want to sub in a match. It is easier to get playing time for a winger, midfielder or forward.

I hope they start playing him soon, instead of waiting for an injury. But of course with Maguire given as starter, Lindelof semi-given for now at least, it will be difficult to get the well needed minutes for all the other centre backs. Let's just hope Ole prioritizes Tuanzebes development high.

 

[11101]

That's true and hopefully Ole has some kind of plan how to introduce Tuanzebe to bigger games, including the mental part. To put him on the bench before the other 4 CBs must somehow have increased his confidence. The bad thing about being a young CB is that it is not really a position that you want to sub in a match. It is easier to get playing time for a winger, midfielder or forward.

I hope they start playing him soon, instead of waiting for an injury. But of course with Maguire given as starter, Lindelof semi-given for now at least, it will be difficult to get the well needed minutes for all the other centre backs. Let's just hope Ole prioritizes Tuanzebes development high.

He'll get cup games i'd expect and will start to get PL games based on how he does in those.

He hasn't got 5 top flight games to his name yet. It would be a massive risk, and really quite reckless, to drop him in a meaningful Premier League game right now.

 

[Floyd]

Lindelof faster than Tuanzebe


Lindelof has average pace. 6,5/10

Tuanzebe is lightning. 9,5/10

Bailly is lightning. 10/10

Smalling was lightning, lost a bit of pace I think, still pretty fast. 8/10

Jones is fast-ish. 7,5/10

Rojo 6,5/10

AWB 9/10

Shaw was lightning with silly acceleration, lost some due to injuries and eating. 8,5/10

Young 7,5/10


There you have it, pace wise there is nothing more to discuss

 

[Grande]

That's true and hopefully Ole has some kind of plan how to introduce Tuanzebe to bigger games, including the mental part. To put him on the bench before the other 4 CBs must somehow have increased his confidence. The bad thing about being a young CB is that it is not really a position that you want to sub in a match. It is easier to get playing time for a winger, midfielder or forward.

I hope they start playing him soon, instead of waiting for an injury. But of course with Maguire given as starter, Lindelof semi-given for now at least, it will be difficult to get the well needed minutes for all the other centre backs. Let's just hope Ole prioritizes Tuanzebes development high.

I really enjoyed seeing Tuanzebe’s name on the bench for the openers, because it clearly is a statement from Solskjær about his trust in Tuanzebe at this point. There will undoubtedly many games in the year for a third choice CB, so if Tuanzebe can defend the gaffer’s trust in him with performances, he’s looking at 20-40 games, which probably be ideal for his learning curve anyway.

That is if Maguire and Lindelöf keeps developing a solid partnership to stay first choices. I think it’s looking good in that regard as well.

 

[Mickson]

I can see there is not much point in discussing with you because you are able to dismiss out of hand other people's views. People who have been following Lindelof his entire career here in Sweden (I am referring to some of the lunatics that you mentioned). I only mentioned those 4 games to give you some numbers, he has played 13 games for the under 21s and many of those were at right back and he has also played a couple for the National team at right back. That qualifies as a lot for me. The rest of the information pointed you to the end of the description about him, namely that he reads the game well and has good qualities on the ball. Both of which you agreed about. So thanks. He is also fast by the way (as mentioned many times in this thread by other people).

It's not that hard when I have the stats for you. He has played two games as a CB for the national team, and that was back in 2016 the last time. Over three years ago: https://www.transfermarkt.com/victor-lindelof/nationalmannschaft/spieler/184573/verein_id/3557 and five games as RB for the U21 and all of them were in the same U21 European Championship where Sweden won. So no, that's not a lot. We can now leave that. I am Swedish as well so don't come with that card. He's not awfully slow but he's far from fast, he's much slower than Smalling and Tuanzebe and Bailly for example. The last post here ranking their pace is pretty accurate.

 

[A-man]

It's not that hard when I have the stats for you. He has played two games as a CB for the national team, and that was back in 2016 the last time. Over three years ago: https://www.transfermarkt.com/victor-lindelof/nationalmannschaft/spieler/184573/verein_id/3557 and five games as RB for the U21 and all of them were in the same U21 European Championship where Sweden won. So no, that's not a lot. We can now leave that. I am Swedish as well so don't come with that card. He's not awfully slow but he's far from fast, he's much slower than Smalling and Tuanzebe and Bailly for example. The last post here ranking their pace is pretty accurate.

I'm not sure how to read this, bit can you see how many matches he played as RB for United?

His own words on the subject:

My position is a centre-back but, like you said, I was playing right-back before and started my footballing career as a midfielder. But I see myself as a central defender. I feel most comfortable there.

 

[11101]

I'm not sure how to read this, bit can you see how many matches he played as RB for United?

His own words on the subject:

My position is a centre-back but, like you said, I was playing right-back before and started my footballing career as a midfielder. But I see myself as a central defender. I feel most comfortable there.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/victo...erein/0/liga/0/wettbewerb//trainer_id/0/pos/5

He's played there 4 times, 3 in the league and once in the FA Cup. 18 times across all teams.

 

[A-man]

https://www.transfermarkt.com/victo...erein/0/liga/0/wettbewerb//trainer_id/0/pos/5

He's played there 4 times, 3 in the league and once in the FA Cup. 18 times across all teams.

Thanks!

 

[Foxbatt]

Lindelof faster than Tuanzebe


Lindelof has average pace. 6,5/10

Tuanzebe is lightning. 9,5/10

Bailly is lightning. 10/10

Smalling was lightning, lost a bit of pace I think, still pretty fast. 8/10

Jones is fast-ish. 7,5/10

Rojo 6,5/10

AWB 9/10

Shaw was lightning with silly acceleration, lost some due to injuries and eating. 8,5/10

Young 7,5/10


There you have it, pace wise there is nothing more to discuss

Over what distance? This is of utmost importance in football. As a full back you are not going to sprint even 50 metres. If you are silly quick over 10 to 20 metres then it is very good. Or even 5 metres.

 

[Adnan]

If you think Lindelof is fast then I suggest you re-watch last seasons game against Wolves (away)when Ivan Cavaleiro destroyed him for pace and strength before hitting the cross bar in the dying minutes. Maybe @GifLord can provide the footage..

 

[UncleBob]

The reason he's been playing is because we don't have world class stalwarts at the back like Rio and Vidic anymore. And the ones we bought are either complete liabilities or Lindelof who's taken 18 months to settle and there's still question marks surrounding him from fans/journos/pundits etc.

Smalling to his credit has had many good games for United. The game last season v PSG away was a particular stand out IMO. People can't seem to look beyond his one glaring flaw and forget the numerous good performances he's put out for the club at a time when the club was going through some very bad times.

No one is claiming that Smalling hasn't had good games for United, plenty of players has. Smallings one glaring flaw is that he isn't a very good defender, at all, so I'm not entirely sure why you're stuck in a loop where you keep referring to his ability on the ball as his one glaring flaw. He lacks footballing intelligence.

 

[GifLord]

If you think Lindelof is fast then I suggest you re-watch last seasons game against Wolves (away)when Ivan Cavaleiro destroyed him for pace and strength before hitting the cross bar in the dying minutes. Maybe @GifLord can provide the footage..

 

[Adnan]

No one is claiming that Smalling hasn't had good games for United, plenty of players has. Smallings one glaring flaw is that he isn't a very good defender, at all, so I'm not entirely sure why you're stuck in a loop where you keep referring to his ability on the ball as his one glaring flaw. He lacks footballing intelligence.

Smalling might not be a world class defender but he is/was a very good one. You don't get signed by Sir Alex Ferguson and be a regular under Champions League winning managers if you aren't very good. It's totally absurd to say a CB who just last season performed brilliantly against PSG in the away leg isn't at the very least very good.

 

[haram]

92nd minute playing with 10 men... player might have even come off the bench...

 

[Adnan]

Lindelof tries to outmuscle him knowing full well he can't match him for pace but gets shrugged off easily by Cavaleiro.

 

[OldPop]

To say someone is fast in football is actually not a very straightforward statement, because what is fast? Not even in track and field can you say who is the fastest. Is Usain Bolts 100 meters in 9:59 faster than Kipchoge's 2:01 marathon?

In football factors like acceleration, reaction, reading the game, top speed, high speed over long distances are all important. And what if you're fast but only have stamina for 3-4 really fast sprints in a match?

Very good point of view! All attributes together determine how good a player is, or can be. The discussion becomes rather pointless when you focus on a single one.

 

[ivaldo]

If you think Lindelof is fast then I suggest you re-watch last seasons game against Wolves (away)when Ivan Cavaleiro destroyed him for pace and strength before hitting the cross bar in the dying minutes. Maybe @GifLord can provide the footage..

You could also watch him comfortably match Cancelo for pace against Juve. He’s not rapid but he’s got decent pace for a CB.

 

[Adnan]

You could also watch him comfortably match Cancelo for pace against Juve.

Lindelof has struggled against Cardiff's Zahore, got rinsed by both Mbappe and Cavaleiro. And in the last game against Wolves he lost a foot race against Jimenez near the corner flag in the 2nd half. His pace and acceleration are both average and will get exposed against players who are pacy. I don't want to keep bothering @GifLord but there's many examples.

 

[ivaldo]

Lindelof has struggled against Cardiff's Zahore, got rinsed by both Mbappe and Cavaleiro. And in the last game against Wolves he lost a foot race against Jimenez near the corner flag in the 2nd half. His pace and acceleration are both average and will get exposed against players who are pacy. I don't want to keep bothering @GifLord but there's many examples.

Centre backs as a collective aren’t quick. Players like Mbappe and Cavaleiro are going to destroy the vast majority of CBs in a foot race. You put Tuanzebe up against Mbappe in a straight sprint and he’ll get destroyed too. It doesn’t make Lindelof slow for a centre back.

You can bother him all you like. Anecdotal evidence means feck all. You can do that for every player. Ask GifLord to bring up the clip of 35 year old Carrick smashing Aguero in a foot race. That clip doesn’t prove Carrick is rapid.