Xavi

Jordan_mufc

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Just out of interest, where does everyone rate him in relation to Scholes?

Personally I have him a tier above with Zidane.

Scholes just below, along with Iniesta, Pirlo etc
 

KirkDuyt

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I remember always selling him in Pro Evo 2006 or something. Seemed like such a nothing player with no pace. Guess he was sort of good after all.

Still, all these emotionless 3 feet tall Barca midfielders seem interchangeble to me. Feck em.
 

KirkDuyt

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Who was better? Robben, Ibra, Neymar?
Robben would be in the conversation for 3rd best if he didn't tear off his hamstring every other week. Could really be a 1 man team when he found his groove. I'm sure United fans remember that 09-10 season he had.

Zlatan is a flat track bully init
 

harms

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It's just amazing how much Pep, Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta and Messi complemented each other during that 2009-2011 period. You take away one element and you are talking about the difference between a great side and a once in a lifetime side.
I'd add Alves to that.
 

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He was obviously enhanced by the system, the synergies with and the calibre of team-mate - "I play well by association", Xavi. But you can draw a parallel between Xavi's peak years, including his eventual decline, with the success and fall of both Spain and the possession game of Barcelona. Spain became the most successful international team of all time in winning three consecutive major trophies between 2008 and 2012 when Xavi was at his peak. That period of dominance started before he'd kicked a ball for Guardiola when he was player of the tournament at Euro 2008, in a system which was more fluid and direct than that what followed. And since he declined after 2012, Spain have been nowhere on the international scene.

At club level, the trajectory of Barcelona - peaking from 2008 to 2011, as one of, if not the greatest side of all - mirrors Xavi's peak. Once he declined, Barcelona weren't the same force and, despite their best efforts, couldn't replicate his role in their system. So much so that they had to switch to a more transition-based system to become successful in the Champions League again. And at both club and international level, even within those peak years, you can pinpoint the odd game where Xavi was missing and see the clear disjoint in the system and the reduced performance level that followed. Spain become notorious for losing their shit when he wasn't available, despite having a plethora of elite central play-making midfielders to call upon. Xavi wasn't just successful because of the system Guardiola developed. He was the system.
 

Theonas

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Who was better? Robben, Ibra, Neymar?
Peak Neymar is probably only second to Messi in terms of single handedly destroying an opponent. Robben is not far off and did it much more consistently so maybe Robben overall. I don't think Ibra should be in that discussion, he is more in the tier of the likes of Shearer, Lewandowski, ...
 

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What of it, i was 50% serious. 3rd best player of the last decade? Seriously :houllier:

Best CM of the last 30 years....sure. But in the right circumstances.
its a fair shout. from 2009 to now, he has come 3rd in the Balon D'or 3 times, made the Fifpro world 11 six times, etc etc, I cannot be bothered to list all his accolades as they are too lenghty. you can navigate to his wiki and it probably supports the idea that he was the best player after Ronaldo and messi
 

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I still think Iniesta was better though. He could see and play the passes Xavi could but also had the goalscoring and elite dribbling to compliment it.
 

KennyBurner

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Xavi’s best years are more dependent on Pep and not on Messi. Even though he had won the Euros and was voted the MVP of the tournament right before Pep came.

His international career takes anyway any doubt that he can play at the same level without Messi.

Iniesta was probably a more naturally gifted player, his dribbling was just out of this world, but Xavi was more crucial to the system. Iniesta is obviously an all-time great talent as well, and also someone with the unique ability of stepping up on the biggest stage.

Interestingly, unlike Iniesta, Xavi was not seen as a clear generational talent when he just came on to the scene, what makes his career trajectory even more impressive.
He was 28 during the euros and 30 during the world cup. Wouldn’t you agree that was the the time he should have been at his best? What I’m interested in is his younger years. Was he regarded the best when he was 22-28? I dont remember the buzz around him to be honest in comparison to iniesta who was regraded the best from when he was still young. Not doubting his ability but a common factor with all players that are regarded the best ever have consistency at the top throughout their career. So why is xavi any different?
 

Br1_ovi

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Xavi had 3 peak seasons, but he had an amaxing consistency in that years, game after game.

Iniesta has been better for both national and Barça during more years.
 

MVBDX

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What is the point of your post? Does it have anything to do with the OP or Xavi's level as a player? Of course he is a sore loser. Every player worth his salt has been a sore loser at some point in their careers. These guys are born winners so they hate losing more than anything else and will find any and every excuse for why they lost. Xavi would go to extreme at times in his opinions of what is good football, I agree, still doesn't change the fact that he is an all time great and your post is sounding like you are being salty just for the sake of it.

Anyway, for me, he is the best central midfielder in the last 20 years by some distance. Unlike all time greats like Matthaus, he was dependent on a system, in the sense that he wouldn't flourish as much in a more conservative, defensive line-up or a counter attacking team, but he elevated the system that suited him to new heights, more than any other central mid in history could have. I value him as the most important piece of 2009-2011 Barcelona, slightly above Messi and easily above Iniesta, Alves, Busquets etc. He made the high defensive line possible and Barcelona one of the hardest teams to be scored on by being almost impossible to dispossess. His value to that team was highlighted in the moment that he declined. We just weren't the same team despite Messi, Iniesta or Busquets still being in their primes. He still found a way to contribute to our second treble by being a super sub, subbed on in the second half to put the game beyond reach for our opponents. Also, the real leader of that team.
There are guys that hate losing (everyone), there are sore losers, and then there's Xavi, he's on a different planet when it comes to complaints. "Football lost" and "But we had more possession" are memes at this point, in major part thanks to him. I don't have the numbers but there's no doubt that he's commented on pitch conditions (after losses) more than any other player ever. He had also mastered the art of crowding the ref.

As I said a sensational player, but a bit of cnut an absolute sore loser, unlike his teammate, Iniesta.
 

Mark_Barca

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Legend.

I still think Iniesta was better though. He could see and play the passes Xavi could but also had the goalscoring and elite dribbling to compliment it.
Yet stats suggest otherwise even though Xavi sat much deeper than Iniesta.

I love Iniesta but I do think he gets overrated at times. Yes his dribbling was superior but Xavi was more consistent and had a better all round passing game. The big game goals seem to hype Iniesta over Xavi from certain football fans, similar with Gerrard over Lampard.

The notion above that Iniesta produced it more consistently or longer is just not correct in my view.
 

harms

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He was 28 during the euros and 30 during the world cup. Wouldn’t you agree that was the the time he should have been at his best? What I’m interested in is his younger years. Was he regarded the best when he was 22-28? I dont remember the buzz around him to be honest in comparison to iniesta who was regraded the best from when he was still young. Not doubting his ability but a common factor with all players that are regarded the best ever have consistency at the top throughout their career. So why is xavi any different?
He peaked in the years that he should’ve peaked, the only abnormality was in the fact that he wasn’t regarded as one of the very best prospects coming through (even though he was a very, very good player), like Iniesta, Fabregas or Thiago/Pogba as more recent examples. Barcelona even considered selling him - can you imagine a club actively wanting to sell their key player right before his supposed peak years?

In his own words:
“Xavi” said:
At Euro 2008, I was told the club wanted to sell me. Real Madrid were winning and us, nothing,” he recalled.

“I go to the national team knowing that if a good offer comes in, the club will sell me. I spoke to my agent and there was an offer from Bayern. Karl-Heinz Rummenigge wanted me.

“But then we hired Guardiola and I had a great tournament. Pep told me not to move, that he couldn’t imagine the team without me, and I’ll enjoy it. I was captivated.
 

Zehner

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There are guys that hate losing (everyone), there are sore losers, and then there's Xavi, he's on a different planet when it comes to complaints. "Football lost" and "But we had more possession" are memes at this point, in major part thanks to him. I don't have the numbers but there's no doubt that he's commented on pitch conditions (after losses) more than any other player ever. He had also mastered the art of crowding the ref.

As I said a sensational player, but a bit of cnut an absolute sore loser, unlike his teammate, Iniesta.
It's note sore losing if you're right about it. If you should've won the game because you had an overweight of chances and you lost because of random factors then you've got every right to point that out.
 

Theafonis

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The best to ever do it for me. An incredible player in an incredible team. Finished with numerous international titles and trophies.
 

giorno

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Who was better?
Robben, Zlatan, Suarez, Ribery, i'd take any of those guys before him, for sure
The same applies to pretty much every midfielder.
Not to the same extent, off the top of my head only Lampard at Chelsea was raised as much by his sorroundings. Both played in the best possible teams for them, and were used in the best possible way
Frankly, apart from forwards at the sharp end, ranking players is mostly ridiculous isn't it.
Fair enough
Just out of interest, where does everyone rate him in relation to Scholes?

Personally I have him a tier above with Zidane.

Scholes just below, along with Iniesta, Pirlo etc
This is what i'm talking about. Who rated Xavi above Pirlo, Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard, etc, before 2008? Damn, i remember even fabregas was rated just as high if not higher, even in Spain. Then Iniesta comes into his prime, Aragones has the genius idea of putting Marcos Senna next to him, Guardiola becomes manager of barcelona, and now people are putting him on the same level as Zinedine Zidane

Who was better? Robben, Ibra, Neymar?
Yes
He was obviously enhanced by the system, the synergies with and the calibre of team-mate - "I play well by association", Xavi. But you can draw a parallel between Xavi's peak years, including his eventual decline, with the success and fall of both Spain and the possession game of Barcelona. Spain became the most successful international team of all time in winning three consecutive major trophies between 2008 and 2012 when Xavi was at his peak.
And that is why I consider him the best CM since Matthaus

But seriously, he wasn't this perfect player who never had a poor game and single-handedly dominated week after week.
 

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Not to the same extent, off the top of my head only Lampard at Chelsea was raised as much by his sorroundings. Both played in the best possible teams for them, and were used in the best possible way
Fair enough but ask yourself this, what other CM could take Barcelona and Spain to the same heights if you'd replace Xavi with him? Ok, the system was favorable for him to reach that level, but it applies the other way too.

This is what i'm talking about. Who rated Xavi above Pirlo, Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard, etc, before 2008? Damn, i remember even fabregas was rated just as high if not higher, even in Spain. Then Iniesta comes into his prime, Aragones has the genius idea of putting Marcos Senna next to him, Guardiola becomes manager of barcelona, and now people are putting him on the same level as Zinedine Zidane
Why does it matter that people were rating the likes of Fabregas, Lampard, Gerrard above Xavi before 2008? Did anyone rate Zidane as one of the best of all time before 1998 when he won the WC? Fact is, 2008 came, Aragones finally put together a competent team, Xavi shined at that Euro, winning player of the tournament, went from strength to strength in the coming years and is now regarded at the same level as the best midfielders in history, maybe on the same level as Zidane. Don't see where the problem is.

Just as side note, you do know that Zidane wasn't considered a better player than Figo around the early 2000s? The fact that he had that 2002 CL final and terrific 2006 WC made him way better in the eyes of the world. Why wouldn't the same apply to Xavi and the likes of Pirlo, Lampard, Gerrard etc.?

Yes

And that is why I consider him the best CM since Matthaus

But seriously, he wasn't this perfect player who never had a poor game and single-handedly dominated week after week.
Zidane was the parragon of inconsistency and makes Xavi's number of poor games seem insignificant in comparison. But it doesn't matter now does it?
 

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It's note sore losing if you're right about it. If you should've won the game because you had an overweight of chances and you lost because of random factors then you've got every right to point that out.
I wouldn't expect otherwise from you. "But we had more possession" is literally ingrained in some folks.
 

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Robben, Zlatan, Suarez, Ribery, i'd take any of those guys before him, for sure
Depends entirely on what club are you coaching and the other players you have, but i sure as hell wouldnt pick Zlatan, Suarez or Ribery before Xavi, nor would i pick Robben because hed play half the games.

You put Xavi in any midfield and you have the possesion part of the game sorted, no team is going to beat you on possesion doesnt matter what system you play in or against. Thats a huge advantage without even looking at anything else.

This is what i'm talking about. Who rated Xavi above Pirlo, Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard, etc, before 2008? Damn, i remember even fabregas was rated just as high if not higher, even in Spain. Then Iniesta comes into his prime, Aragones has the genius idea of putting Marcos Senna next to him, Guardiola becomes manager of barcelona, and now people are putting him on the same level as Zinedine Zidane


.
Lets take Maradona's '86-'90 years then and see what we are left with. CR7's 3peat of the CL too, Van Basten's '88 euro etc. Pointless argument.



and now people are putting him on the same level as Zinedine Zidane


.
On trophies and impact alone, Xavi is already streets ahead of Zinedine Zidane. Id even go as far as saying that people that put Zizou on the same level as Xavi are ridiculous.
 

Cait Sith

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But seriously, he wasn't this perfect player who never had a poor game and single-handedly dominated week after week.
He actually was. Never seen a player as consistent as Xavi.

For example in the past 5 years or so Modric was the #1 midfielder. Yet I can name you probably 5 high stake games in which he got ran over easily. Pretty much every Clasico, irrespective how much Barca's midfield has declined, against Bayern, against Juventus in the Bernabeu etc.

With Xavi I can't name a single game in which he got ran over. Your great club, CL record holders, reverted to parking a space shuttle in the Bernabeu with Özil false 9 and Pepe in midfield and Benzema, Higuain, Di Maria all on the bench at some point to stop Barca's midfield dominance. It was absurd to watch.
 

sullydnl

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I've never seen a midfielder better than Xavi at his best.
 

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Supercharged player in certain systems and play styles but due to his lack of versatility I don't rate him as a high as some. That's why I rate Pirlo slightly higher than him.
 

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Supercharged player in certain systems and play styles but due to his lack of versatility I don't rate him as a high as some. That's why I rate Pirlo slightly higher than him.
His base technical skills of shielding the ball, beating the press and of course his passing make him p versatile to me. I don't think there's a team in history that couldn't find a place for Xavi
 

Raees

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Makes it look more effortless than Busquets or Iniesta
 

2mufc0

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His base technical skills of shielding the ball, beating the press and of course his passing make him p versatile to me. I don't think there's a team in history that couldn't find a place for Xavi
Evidence suggest otherwise, before the Pep era nobody rated him. Was even benched for a champions league final.
 

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Evidence suggest otherwise, before the Pep era nobody rated him. Was even benched for a champions league final.
He was recovering after tearing his knee ligaments. He barely returned to action in april, the final was in may. How can you keep this against him? He was one of our most important players in 2005 when we won La Liga after 6 years of wilderness.

Nobody rated him before Pep? Mate, he won player of the tournament at the Euros before Pep even said a word to him. Furthermore the likes of Bayern and Manchester United were lining up to buy him in 2008 when it was rumoured that Barca wanted to sell him, which would have been one of the most terrible things our board could've done. Luckily Guardiola came and weeded out the real problems of that team which were Ronaldinho and Deco, and the rest is history.

Regarding your statement of being supercharged by certain systems, it's the other way around. He supercharged tiki taka. Without him, neither Barcelona, nor Spain would reach those levels of total domination and they wouldn't win the same amount of trophies.
 
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2mufc0

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He was recovering after tearing his knee ligaments. He barely returned to action in april, the final was in may. How can you keep this against him? He was one of our most important players in 2005 when we won La Liga after 6 years of wilderness.

Nobody rated him before Pep? Mate, he won player of the tournament at the Euros before Pep even said a word to him. Furthermore the likes of Bayern and Manchester United were lining up to buy him in 2008 when it was rumoured that Barca wanted to sell him, which would have been one of the most terrible things our board could've done. Luckily Guardiola came and weeded out the real problems of that team which were Ronaldinho and Deco, and the rest is history.

Regarding your statement of being supercharged by certain systems, it's the other way around. He supercharged tiki taka. Without him, neither Barcelona, nor Spain would reach those levels of total domination and they wouldn't win the same amount of trophies.
Deco was better during that period I recall, its dishonest to say he was rated amongst the best footballers in that period, he wasn't. And I agree he was an important cog in those dominant teams and deserves immense praise for that. You have your reasons why you rate him the level you do and so do I.
 

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Found this incredible compilation of Xavi during the 2010-2011 season


Arguably one of the most press resistant players ever and best central midfielder ever.

What a player he was.
What struck me in the video were the off the ball movements. Outrageous.
 

VanKenny

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Evidence suggest otherwise, before the Pep era nobody rated him. Was even benched for a champions league final.

If anything, that speaks more about Rijkaard and the other coaches than it does about him. After what Guardiola and Aragones got out of him, Xavi is beyond those arguments.
 

harms

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To be fair, @giorno is known for his preference of attacking players over any other, I remember reading his post that Baresi wasn’t as good as Totti/Del Piero etc. Which is fair enough. Even though I’ll never agree with it, there’s no objective methods of comparing attackers to midfielders/defenders if you don’t go by the team stats (which are hugely influenced by the level of their partners).
 

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Just out of interest, where does everyone rate him in relation to Scholes?

Personally I have him a tier above with Zidane.

Scholes just below, along with Iniesta, Pirlo etc
He's above Zidane for me. Zidane never had his insane consistency.
 

berbatrick

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Legend.

I still think Iniesta was better though. He could see and play the passes Xavi could but also had the goalscoring and elite dribbling to compliment it.
I used to think so but Barca's passing and midfield doination dminished drastically once Xavi left though Iniesta was still around. He couldn't control a game in the way Xavi regularly did, even though he did do so sometimes (as an example the 09 CL final)