We have spent as much as net as city give or take in the lasy nunmber of years. Is it really that naive to expect similar outlay? We have top 5 largest wage bills in the world... is it that naive to expect that to continue ?
How much money are the Glazers now saving through wages of our offloaded players?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
The hole from paying off Mourinho (£20m+) and not qualifying for the CL had to be filled somehow.
Don’t forget Ed the Red 60% pay rise for all the success and joy he has brought to the club since taking charge.
It is SAF's fault that the ownership of the club changed from a rich Irish family to a rich American family (who needed massive loans to make it happen & who don't give a monkeys about 'soccer' as long as the $'s keep rolling in) everything else has followed on from that.
P.S. I am not the only person who thinks this, there are more and more posts appearing on here pointing out that SAFs greed to do with the disputed ownership of a successful racehorse has sowed the seeds for the current calamity: you reap what you sow....
Probably about as much as we will lose not getting into the champions league?
Nonsense, how can SAF be held responsible Magnier and Mcmanus taking revenge (if it was that), by selling their deciding shares to the Glazers, they knew who they were selling to, and the potential implications, and if it was revenge then it is them that did it, and then the Glazers who have since run our club into the ground.
If you find out enough about the horse in question, and the events leading up to the fallout, then a strong case can be made for what SAF took issue with, yes perhaps greed got the better of him, but it did on both sides, it's just a shame that it is the club that has been made to suffer, but that is ultimately down the to the Glazers, SAF worked miracles to save the club in those first few years of their ownership, if we were performing like we are now then I dread to think what would have happened to us.
You are contradicting yourself Eric, if someone takes revenge for something, then the person whom the revenge is taken against can be said to be responsible for anything that follows on from it. In your second paragraph you do come close to acknowledging this when you state "...yes perhaps greed got the better of him", I just wish more Man Utd. fans were as enlightened. But you then spoil it by stating: "SAF worked miracles to save the club in those first few years of their ownership" because he still had some decent players to work with and he was well rewarded himself, for his efforts. However, I do concede the 20th premiership in 2012–13 was an amazing achievement, helped by Robin Van Persie being at the top of his game.
Let me try to explain my mindset with a hypothetical situation: imagine Pep Guardiola stays at City for the whole of the 2020's winning 4 or 5 more titles, a couple of CLs plus Carabou Cups and FA Cups too. But in or around 2025 he has a spectacular falling out over something petty - a promised bonus or something - with the Abu Dhabi owners. They decide to withdraw themselves from the Etihad and are replaced with some dodgy investment people who haven't got half the money they say they have. Pep keeps winning stuff despite this, using talented players from the previous regime, but eventually retires in 2030. City then spiral into a period of decline, struggling for top-4, then mid-table & maybe even worse.......
Do you think the Man City forums would still be such a fan of Pep? Do you think they would have a 'Pep Guardiola stand' and pay him millions a year to do a few days work and watch the team decline season after season?
I don't think so.
We dominated the league for 20 years & became Britain's most successful club. This doesn't happen without SAF.
McManus & Magnier were always going to sell up. The fall out with SAF likely hastened this. The issue though is that the Glazers were allowed to buy Utd with the leveraged buy out. This was totally out of SAF's control. It happened & he had to do his best to work under the new regime.
The current malaise at the club is not down to SAF. He made a mistake hiring Moyes but this was rectified after 7 mths. It shouldn't have took the club over 5 years & counting to repair the damage Moyes did & get the club back competing. There is talk that SAF was on a bonus for keeping spending down during the early years of Glazer ownership. This lack of spending has had an effect in the post SAF years. We were still winning though during SAF's later years & you have to give him credit for refusing to buy the league.
The Glaziers are not the problem. Many players have been signed for a lot of money. They're not the under performing, player's, manager's or coaching staff.
Just look at the cost of our starting 11 vs the Saint's' starting 11 yesterday. We had an 80 million quid defender, an 80 million quid midfielder, a 50 million quid right back. For most of the game we were outplayed. Nothing to do with the Glaziers.
Just look at the cost of our starting 11 vs the Saint's' starting 11 yesterday. We had an 80 million quid defender, an 80 million quid midfielder, a 50 million quid right back. For most of the game we were outplayed. Nothing to do with the Glaziers.
Why would they do so? People realise that the only way for them to get money from the club is via dividends which has been a constant for the last 4 years, and there hasn't been any indication that it is going to increase.
While in the cartoon world some people seem to live every penny not spend is a penny which goes to Glazers, in the real world that simply is not the case. For Glazers to get money from the club to their bank account, they either need to sell shares (isn't this what many of United fans want?) or via dividend. In both cases, it needs to be public (the reports are there). So this milking the club is a total nonsense, they didn't get any extra money for themselves by not investing that much this year.
Whatever the amount saved from wages of players who have left, its does not go straight into the Glazers pocket and even if it did it would be 'chump change' to them
Are people really trying to argue less expenditure and less investment doesn't ultimately benefit the Glazers?
If the Glazers are looking to sell in the near term both these things benefit them.
If the Glazers are looking to sell in the near term both these things benefit them.
I understand it is difficult for Man Utd. fans to accept what they really don't want to accept, but one day history will give a more considered approach to whole end to SAFs time at the club and not in a good way. You come close to accepting this yourself: "McManus & Magnier were always going to sell up. The fall out with SAF likely hastened this." which is my point exactly - had the Irish owners stayed on longer who knows who would be running Man Utd. now? Possibly not the Glazers.
You then state: "It shouldn't have took the club over 5 years & counting to repair the damage Moyes did..." but I would argue the opposite and for the very reason you state yourself in your next sentence: "There is talk that SAF was on a bonus for keeping spending down during the early years of Glazer ownership. This lack of spending has had an effect in the post SAF years." You can say that again! So again, instead of people on here moaning about Moyes, LVG, Jose and now OGS (and Woodward and the Glazers), perhaps it is time to accept the rot set in before that, because of one man's personal ambition to build up his own wealth through the ownership of a racehorse and as you say yourself, the 'bonuses for keeping spending down'.
P.S. You are giving credit to SAF for refusing to buy the league..... what about Rio Ferdinand £27.55m in 2002! (a new British record transfer) a player who really wasn't needed had Jaap Stam not been discarded prematurely & why was that, remind me?
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Slightly patronising, but maybe that's just your way .. Dennis, The problem is that we do not know the exact details behind the ownership structure of Rock of Gibraltar, SAF could have had a very strong case in asking for 50 % stud fees, then again he may not have, but as a highly intelligent man I would assume he had a case, either way it should never have involved Man Utd, it was a dispute over a horse, not the club, my bet is the horse was never thought to be that good, so a proper contract was never drawn up, but who's faults that?
The City comparison is just daft, and a potential £50 million isn't petty, so it's up to you, blame the greatest manager we have ever had for our current demise, and not some highly astute Irishmen who took a massive profit on an asset with little care for who they sold to, , the PL for allowing it, or perhaps the Glazers themselves for doing what they've done.
SAF took the bull by the horns and seamlessly guided us through the danger years with them, and then put the cherry on the cake by winning the league when he had no right to do so, for that I am grateful, as if he'd have walked away then I shudder what could have happened, our demise since is through shockingly poor management throughout the club, and a pure lack of care form our owners, the money has been spent to keep us at the top since SAF left, but we just been complacent and naive in the extreme.
If McManus & Magnier had stayed on then yes maybe the Glazers wouldn't have bought us. We could easily though have ended up with even worse owners. A club as big as Liverpool were nearly bankrupt by Hicks & Gillette. We can say anything in hindsight.
SAF is criticized on his lack spending in his later years due to us finishing 7th in our first season without him. The squad he left should have finished at least 4th. The problem was the inept Moyes was running the show. We have since hired big name managers & have spent heavily on players. This has all failed. This is entirely down to the managers we've employed.
It's an ABU myth that Utd regularly bought the league. SAF was the biggest spender in 1 of his 20 PL seasons.
I would be interested to have a link to where you are getting that statistic from, thanks.
P.S. SAF didn't win anything in his first 3 years at Utd. many younger fans don't know this. Did Moyes get 3 years? Will OGS?
Why Manchester United was actually sold to the glazers ? Who allowed it to happen ?
This is one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read on this board. No hyperbole. It's that ridiculous.
I’m not sure Rashy is earning his wages, we have learnt nothing because we are still paying players way to much for giving us way too little.
Who in their right mind pays an average 21 year old 200k and over per week???
Absolute stupidity. Since his big pay day it is notable his form has dipped an awful lot...
Love the negative spin you've managed to put on the club getting rid of the dross we've all wanted for a while.
Firstly, I don't view Herrera, Rom, Smalling or even Fellaini as 'unwanted dross', and come the end of the season, many will agree.
Secondly, they've not been replaced, and that's the point essentially.
You might disagree with my stance on Ole, that's fine - but my point here is directed firmly at the Glazers / Woodward, and it's a point that puts the quality of he club above the financial interests of the latter.
There isn't negative spin in that, and you'd be very naive to dismiss such a question off the bat.
Only Herrera from that list is a loss. Sure, we needed to replace them and it's shit that we haven't but it's still better to get rid rather than keep them here and pay stupid wages to them for doing nothing. The funds freed up will go towards getting players in.
I've no idea what your views are on Ole.
I really don’t get this logic! Are you trying to tell me a Man United team finishing 6th (or worse) with a serious lack of assets on the playing staff is going to be worth more than a Premier League/Champions League winning team with multiple world class players?
Clearing the deadwood has feck all to do with the Glazers and everything to do with Ole wanting to create a culture at the club again! Our next transfer windows are now ridiculously important though! We need at least four world class players that are young, hungry and want to give their all for the club!
Which part?
The post Ronaldo years really damaged us, I agree, and we compounded by making two really poor managerial picks in Moyes and Van Gaal. Still, even after Fergie retired all we needed were three good signings at CB, CM and RW but we got just Fellaini and then panic bough Mata who was a superstar but the wrong fit in a team built for wing play. Next season we brought in Van Gaal and all hell broke loose; he hounded Rafael, Chicharito, Van Persie, Evans and Nani out of the club - these players as starters all had issues but they were all more than good enough for a squad role and were replaced by even worse versions. Imo this is where we lost all the stability we had as a club as recruitment under Van Gaal wasn't up to scratch. Mourinho came in and did reasonably well, winning the Europa and finishing second but I guess the board lost faith in some of his signings too and he lost it at the end.
From the day Ferguson retired its been clear that recruitment of both managers and players has been a major weakness looking at the managerial and player turnover then the poor league finishes (we have only had a semblance of a title challenge once in six years). Its obvious that the recruitment has been disastrous and its shocking that owners seemingly in it for profits can't recognize this weakness and take corrective measures. Looking at the bottom line alone will ultimately cost them more because if we miss the CL this season then the Adidas deal gets cut and I don't see most of the current sponsors renewing when their deals expire before we consider the impact of fan disillusionment with the way the club has been badly run into mediocrity. Unlike Tampa Bay Buccaneers, United are a global brand that generates interest and sustained revolt by the fans will be more damaging.
The solution has always been an improvement on the recruitment side and they need to implement it now. The first step should be removing Woodward from the football side and recruiting a top class DOF that can map the strategic direction of the football side. Give that man power to hire and fire the coach, sell players and buy new players within the set financial parameters. Support the man with recruitment of actual scouts that can identify top talents. Right now all is not lost because two good signings in January can propel our season and a further three next summer could stabilize the first team but if let to fester then the negative sentiment from dissatisfied fans and wantaway players will engulf the club and cause irreparable damage. I don't believe that the Glazers are only interested in the bottom line, we have the biggest wage bill in the PL, they are just shit at this football thing.
From the day Ferguson retired its been clear that recruitment of both managers and players has been a major weakness looking at the managerial and player turnover then the poor league finishes (we have only had a semblance of a title challenge once in six years). Its obvious that the recruitment has been disastrous and its shocking that owners seemingly in it for profits can't recognize this weakness and take corrective measures. Looking at the bottom line alone will ultimately cost them more because if we miss the CL this season then the Adidas deal gets cut and I don't see most of the current sponsors renewing when their deals expire before we consider the impact of fan disillusionment with the way the club has been badly run into mediocrity. Unlike Tampa Bay Buccaneers, United are a global brand that generates interest and sustained revolt by the fans will be more damaging.
The solution has always been an improvement on the recruitment side and they need to implement it now. The first step should be removing Woodward from the football side and recruiting a top class DOF that can map the strategic direction of the football side. Give that man power to hire and fire the coach, sell players and buy new players within the set financial parameters. Support the man with recruitment of actual scouts that can identify top talents. Right now all is not lost because two good signings in January can propel our season and a further three next summer could stabilize the first team but if let to fester then the negative sentiment from dissatisfied fans and wantaway players will engulf the club and cause irreparable damage. I don't believe that the Glazers are only interested in the bottom line, we have the biggest wage bill in the PL, they are just shit at this football thing.
A slight error on my part. We were the biggest spenders in 3 of SAF's 20 PL seasons. It's still a hell of a record to win 13 of 20 seasons when being outspent by rivals in 10 of those. No other manager has done this or is likely to do it.
https://www.football365.com/news/the-biggest-spender-in-every-pl-season-and-how-they-fared
The then board deserve a lot of credit for sticking with SAF during his early years. It's a known fact fans were losing patience. They board saw what SAF was doing. He totally revamped the club from the juniors to the seniors. This resulted in 1 of the proudest moments for many fans with the emergence of the class of 92. Those 7 years of rebuilding allowed us to dominate for 2 decades. I'd take another 7 years of rebuilding if it meant we went on to dominate for another 2 decades.
At least spell the names of the owners right before you make ridiculous statements. The Glazers are giving us less and less transfer budgets each Summer now, and have done nothing about Woodward's incompetence, of course they are a huge fecking problem.
The money spent on transfer fees and wages post SAF wasn’t in their plan, we’re now seeing cutbacks. Everything at the club is financially motivated and football is more of an after thought.
Even if they didn’t want to spend big they could have at least built a structure and a plan around what they were willing to spend. It’s hard to understand what is now going on at the club and how it will get better anytime soon.
Even if they didn’t want to spend big they could have at least built a structure and a plan around what they were willing to spend. It’s hard to understand what is now going on at the club and how it will get better anytime soon.
I quoted the wrong post. This post is ridiculous.
Imagine blaming SAF for the current state of Unite, due to his dispute with the previous owners over 20 years ago. Silliness.
It is not 20 years and it is not 'silliness', it is just something Man Utd. fans just don't want to accept - nobody likes to find out their heroes have flaws.
See: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2374308/Ferguson-agrees-2.5m-Rock-deal.html which is from 2004 and coincidentally it was a year later that the Glazers became involved with the club. Yes, SAFs genius maintained a run of success for several years after the American people came in, but everyone knows on here that the under-investment in the playing staff began during those latter years. Furthermore, this is not just to do with saving money on the team. There has been some debate here recently as to whether Moyes was 6th choice or whether SAF had given him 'the nod' well before the decision became public and I don't know the truth on that. But I can tell you this: the package David Moyes received will have been millions less than the great man and also a big saving on any other big names Pep, Mourinho etc. The Glazers will have been rubbing their hands glee with the Moyes appointment, especially because with the endorsement of SAF, if Moyes was not a success, there was someone else to blame.
I believe the current state of Man Utd. can be traced back to the SAF/John Magnier dispute, the Glazers arrival and also the Moyes appointment. In addition, Moyes was setup to fail because of the aforementioned under-investment in the playing staff, in those previous years.* Ever since then it has been knee-jerk reactions, changing the manager, changing the team, even changing the playing style itself. But once you don't get into the CL there are financial penalties and attracting the top footballers becomes much trickier. You know something else, I bet OGS has the same clause in his contract as all the others post-SAF: no CL and its sayonara to him & there will be no stability ever whilst that minimum target is put in writing.
*Did you see this for example:
I wonder, is OGS on a bonus to keep spending down too? He has certainly made some big savings recently these last few weeks. Getting rid of the 'deadwood' is admirable, but once winter sets in - long trips to Kazakhstan - artificial grass - injuries... some of the 'deadwood' might be much missed.
I am sorry if these 'home truths' are hard to take - but the unwillingness to accept that SAF built something magnificent, but sadly, then seriously weakened the foundations during the endgame, well that is silliness.
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Apologies for the incorrect spelling.
The Glazers have purchased the 3 most expensive players in Premier League history. Pogba, Maguire and Lakaku. Then add all of the other big transfers for players that they have spent. We have spent enough to be challenging for the title. Just compare the cost of our squad and the wage bill to other clubs over recent years.
You are getting a little muddled on the SAF spending bonus. When the Glazers took over the debt was huge & we had crippling interest payments. It was the right thing to do to offer SAF a challenge & incentive to keep spending low while maintaining success levels. It was no skin off SAF's nose either way. He had no inclination to buy the league like his rivals.
Post SAF a large portion of the debt has been paid off & interest payments are vastly lower than they were. This has freed up the necessary funds for the future managers to spend at will. The issue has been that the managers & their signings have not been of the required standard.
Ole is now faced with a rebuilding job which won't be done in 1 window. We have signed 3 players who can take us forward. We have released players who have proven they can't.
I know that Howson comes in for a rough ride from some people which I totally understand,however there is a really good video uploaded yesterday talking about the ownership.
the guy lets slip fergie supposedly took payments with a 'certain portugese guy' and insinuated the club have him in a compromising situation over it
Leeds United says hello...
It's all fine and well to debate this.
The bigger issue here is how we got ourselves in this huge mess in the first place. One of the biggest clubs in the world and for 6 long years later repeatedly shooting itself in the foot.
Everytime something about this club gets analyzed or debated, the answer seems to always point in the direction of the owners or Woodward.
The bigger issue here is how we got ourselves in this huge mess in the first place. One of the biggest clubs in the world and for 6 long years later repeatedly shooting itself in the foot.
Everytime something about this club gets analyzed or debated, the answer seems to always point in the direction of the owners or Woodward.
We are not leeds
Bob Paisley saw how destructive it was to have the old manager hanging around, and rightly made a difficult decision which proved very successful. Strange point to bring up to defend MUFC post fergie.
I was Glazer out from the beginning and maintained it despite it going out of vogue for a while whilst we were winning
Despite this, I will repeat that this is NOT a cost-cutting exercise. The Glazers haven’t had to cut costs since 2010 when the debt was restructured. At this point, the club makes them so much money, potentially harming the ongoing viability of the club by selling players to save a few quid makes absolutely no sense at all.
Despite this, I will repeat that this is NOT a cost-cutting exercise. The Glazers haven’t had to cut costs since 2010 when the debt was restructured. At this point, the club makes them so much money, potentially harming the ongoing viability of the club by selling players to save a few quid makes absolutely no sense at all.
He will get one more window (the January one - and rarely does anyone very good become available then, half way through the current CL) if he does not top-4 or win the Europa Cup he will be gone, because you have business people running the show and not football people.