Ole has been dealt a different hand to those 3, he’s only got 3 strikers none of whom are 20 plus a season goal scorers, our midfield barely contributes, the only area we have seemingly improved is defence so expectations have to be adjusted this season. It’s ludicrous not to.
Why are we dropping the standards for Ole?
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
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I’m saying around that area, gives me a plus/minus 2 places wiggle room
Orite enough of that!
Yes its only been 4 games and we have already lost points against shite teams. We are already looking like a side who will struggle to get into the top 4 which is the bleeding standards now
Gone are the days when we were competing for the league. Say hello to Arsenal v2
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Oh, I'm not debating whether it was right to sack Mourinho or not, his sacking was justified. I'm just mystified how finishing 6th one season can be seen as utterly terrible, only to be hailed as a clear sign of progress the following season. Something doesn't add up.
He had a 20 goal a season striker, he happened to have too many flaws in his game so he was binned by Ole. Not identifying and buying his replacement is on him, same applies for Herrera and Fellaini too. Promoting Pereira as a key player and have him play more minutes won't magically make him as useful as those who have departed.
But I already made this point earlier, expectations have been lowered due to our poor summer window but how the squad was shaped/managed in that window has been pinned solely on the board. So, how will we judge him if you absolve the said person of any blame in how the squad was modeled over the summer. I don't think we'll get anywhere, this will go round in circles. I know you have a lot of faith in Ole but it is too simple an out for Ole to say finishing in same position as last season or worse is due to a poor squad, for which he was not responsible at all. He has to be held accountable on how he managed us before the season started, and over the course of season like any other manager.
Arsenal were pretty good at getting the top 4 though
I’ll bet you every penny my pocket versus every penny in your pocket Ole did not sanction both Lukaku and Sanchez leaving without any replacement incoming.
I have never known a manager sabotage himself, it will come out he was promised a replacement but Woody but messed it up.
I think it goes back to the intangibles that you chose to ignore. It's fair enough to do so but our play under Mourinho last season was horribly disjointed, lacked intent and was frequently mystifying in its ridiculousness. If Ole has cleared some deadwood, has us looking more like a team and helping our generally young squad learn to close out matches (with expected hiccups) then there is proof of progress.
Even Klopp and Guardiola struggled in their early days at Pool and City. It takes time to build in football and the club might just be willing to give that to Ole because he's told them of his plans/vision and they agree with it.
I just couldn’t understand your use of the word, so I looked it up. I still can’t understand your use of it even after reading the dictionary.com definition: “His acting is a parody of his past greatness” is making a comparison between current acting and past greatness acting, so the word applies. But your sentence is just not correct or understandable; when you say “people are parodies” ... you have to specify parodies of WHAT??
It’s Murphy’s Law, BTW.
Mate, he has been championing promoting youth and building a good, fast, technical side all along. Lukaku didn't fit into his plans, he was immediately benched by Rashford as soon as he joined. Lukakus' desire to move was apparent since May and yet no replacement was lined up by him. I mean we weren't even linked to any striker save for some obscure links to Ben Yedder, and later Dybala when Juve threw him into our lap.
If board were not ready to buy him a new striker, he should've persisted them to keep the player because despite many flaws in his game, he was still the most reliable goalscorer at the club. I just fail to see any logic in that, to me Ole thought Lukaku was dispensable, same as with Sanchez and Fellaini where players from youth teams could adequately replace them in the first team. The only player he tried hard to keep at the club was Herrera, there was a good article on The Athletic about it.
The way our summer window panned out, I can't attribute all the blame on the board. Ole has to take some accountability. A midfield as shit as ours, yet the only player he was ever interested was Sean Longstaff. It is not as black as white as many fans are making it out to be. I do think he's been sold short by the board, but he himself has contributed to that.
I choose to ignore the intangibles because its a very subjective topic and I specifically asked for an objective criteria through which we could analyse Oles' performance this season.
Anyways, I understand where you're coming from and you do raise some fair points.
This
@Kush i don’t believe for one minute with europa football as well Ole would be happy with 3 strikers one very unproven for his first and maybe only full season at united - just why? There were lots of names mentioned how realistic they were or close they came will eventually come out I guess.
Bruno is brilliant but he's not what we need urgently. We need a midfield warrior. Someone who is everywhere, while being able to hold onto the ball too. Declan Rice is probably no. 1 target in January. Longstaff perhaps our 2nd choice. John McGinn our 3rd choice. That can all change depending on player form.A
Ahahahaha...so we are afraid of investing in Portugal import now? Or we need them to show Ronaldo level before taking the risk to buy them?but seriously do you really think Bruno Fernandes could not get into our starting 11 at the moment with the players we have ? And we did not really needed those you cited at that time or ended buying someone else. But we needed badly a midfielder this time, even more than a CB, and it was there for everyone to see.
Yeah, like I said, it's fair to ignore the intangible elements but they're there and could provide some context to the criteria you're looking for.
Maybe because he genuinely believes likes of Lukaku, Sanchez and Fellaini are dispensable, their contributions can be managed from within via young players we already have at the club. You just have to see where they were in the pecking order when he came in? Fellaini binned almost immediately, Lukaku immediately benched for Rashford, Sanchez never even played.
Coming to strikers, trust me I was browsing the Twitter thread every hour or 2! There were absolutely no rumors about us buying a new forward until July when L'Equipe (who have been a shit source this summer) reported our interest in Ben Yedder. If you know your striker is desperate to get out, you ensure that you line up a replacement. So once the said striker departs, the replacement is already at the club. Just look at how the switcheroo at Inter occurred this season with Lukaku/Icardi. Meanwhile, at Man Utd we are still making moves 'on the go'. With a week to go, we are trying to buy Dybala who we never even enquired earlier, because then we'd know about his image right issues and that the player himself isn't very keen. Also, while this deal was ongoing. We ask about a 33 year old Mandzukic too? I mean which top club handles it business like that?
Ultimately, when Dybala turned us down we had no fallback because we never had 1st choice, 2nd choice strikers lined up in the background. Not only we lost a striker, we never brought his replacement and an additional striker like that deal was promising. Outcome of our entire season changed in those few days, and that's again down to very poor planning/not having a plan in first place. It's all too impromptu from top to bottom at this club, and that includes Ole too.
So he clearly wanted a replacement, pretty sure Mandzukic was lined up as a sloppy seconds but that fell through over wage demands apparently, if that is true that shows how desperate we were.
What constantly surprises me about these “Ole out” threads is that fans are surprised by our start to the season...I ask myself “what on Earth where they expecting?”
We have, on paper, probably the 6th best XI in the league, we arguably don’t even have the 6th best squad or the 6th best manager. Yet people seem somehow surprised that we are not rolling aside all before us
You can look at it one of two ways - either you can continue to wind yourself up hoping that Ole is binned and we spend £500m on players or you can live in the real world whereby we have f**ked up so badly over the last decade that it really doesn’t matter who is sitting in the dugout whilst we go about dismantling and rebuilding our horrendously poor, over-paid squad
Forget this year, also probably forget next year. It’s a rebuild and unfortunately it all has to come down before we can re-lay the foundations because we’re a business, not a state-funded plaything
We have, on paper, probably the 6th best XI in the league, we arguably don’t even have the 6th best squad or the 6th best manager. Yet people seem somehow surprised that we are not rolling aside all before us
You can look at it one of two ways - either you can continue to wind yourself up hoping that Ole is binned and we spend £500m on players or you can live in the real world whereby we have f**ked up so badly over the last decade that it really doesn’t matter who is sitting in the dugout whilst we go about dismantling and rebuilding our horrendously poor, over-paid squad
Forget this year, also probably forget next year. It’s a rebuild and unfortunately it all has to come down before we can re-lay the foundations because we’re a business, not a state-funded plaything
I thought Mandzukic could have been a canny signing but I agree with everything else being said here. Managers do tend to like having enough players.
I was merely wondering whether some people posting in here are just trying to parody the kind of posts this forum now is rife with. Thought that was easily inferred, but fine, we can chalk it down to me being unclear. Your reponse by citing a narrow dictionary definition wasn't the easiest to interpret either, so I reckon we can both cut each other some slack there.
Also, thank you for walking right into that one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muphry's_law
No doubt it doesn't fit the strict definition, but I don't mind being a trailblazing early adopter of a use of Muphry's law that is more inclusive.
This. As I believe they say nowadays to indicate wholehearted agreement.
I think we're playing better football than we did under Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho. And we're clearly giving youth a chance.
We didn't replace Lukaku, and I wish we had. I'd rather see us keeping Fellaini as an impact player than Lukaku, however. Lukaku didn't fit Mourinho's style of football, and it doesn't fit Ole's style of football. I don't understand why we bought him. I was one of them hoping for Morata, then again he didn't work out for Chelsea.
I'm still on the Ole-train, and I'm sad to see so many fans are left on the station. We're hopefully stuck with Ole for quite a few years - I'm counting that the board will support him with cash and players to bring us more glory in the future.
Negatives:
- Lindelöf still doesn't seem like a perfect defender for us.
- Mourinho was probably right about Shaw - he's out of position a few times every game. He doesn't fall over when opposition attack on our right, and he doesn't track back fast enough once we lose the ball.
- Pogba doesn't perform as CDM. I hope we can get Fred running for us, along with McT.
- We lack routine up top - Mandzukic was a missing link. If I can pick anyone I want us to go for, I'd point at Cavani.
- Still no right-winger, which is fine, as long as we don't have to rely on Lingard. About Lingard - I can't see he got any improvement since he was 22, and he was supposed to be a late bloomer. Some flowers never bloom.
We didn't replace Lukaku, and I wish we had. I'd rather see us keeping Fellaini as an impact player than Lukaku, however. Lukaku didn't fit Mourinho's style of football, and it doesn't fit Ole's style of football. I don't understand why we bought him. I was one of them hoping for Morata, then again he didn't work out for Chelsea.
I'm still on the Ole-train, and I'm sad to see so many fans are left on the station. We're hopefully stuck with Ole for quite a few years - I'm counting that the board will support him with cash and players to bring us more glory in the future.
Negatives:
- Lindelöf still doesn't seem like a perfect defender for us.
- Mourinho was probably right about Shaw - he's out of position a few times every game. He doesn't fall over when opposition attack on our right, and he doesn't track back fast enough once we lose the ball.
- Pogba doesn't perform as CDM. I hope we can get Fred running for us, along with McT.
- We lack routine up top - Mandzukic was a missing link. If I can pick anyone I want us to go for, I'd point at Cavani.
- Still no right-winger, which is fine, as long as we don't have to rely on Lingard. About Lingard - I can't see he got any improvement since he was 22, and he was supposed to be a late bloomer. Some flowers never bloom.
Regarding Muphry’s law, thank you for pointing that out, I really enjoy that one. It’s right, we all live in glass houses when it comes to our writing, so we should cut some slack there too.
Re: OP, It's ok to discuss what standards we hold Ole to, but Watford's ridiculous knee jerk reaction should by no means be a barometer for that. 4 games into a season?! After all the good work last term? Even in these dark days I'd like to think we're a level above that...
I agree with the first part, you're right. But I vehemently disagree with accepting that we are rebuilding because in all truth, we're not really are we?
For us to rebuild properly, we would have to get rid of the rotten structure systematically bleeding us dry for how many years, Woodward moving aside from his fantasy dof position being a start.
Also, why is the rebuild starting with our squad worse from last year? We let so many experienced players go without being replaced properly, that we now have no midfield and no attack.
You can add Pogba & De Gea to leave next summer too. I am certain we will not be able to replace them adequately. That sounds nothing like a rebuild at all now does it?
We say we want to develop the youth, but do we even have the correct environment to develop them in? Stable team? Leaders? Quality XI? We have nothing of the sort. To make matters worse, we got rid of the quality pros like Herrera & Fellaini...
We're supposed to hang tight for this year or the next or how many more, (we've been rebuilding for 6 years so far) on the promise of incoming investment from the Glazers of all people? Like this summer, where we net spent £80m but was promised a complete overhaul including a dof, or last summers £50m net spend after finishing 2nd?
Everything is being done for the end goal of making the Glazers the most money at the minimum cost at the end of the day, to hell with what's best for the actual team. That is what i see in this rebuild.
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BRILLIANT post.
Stop being pleasant, it makes it harder for me to dissociate when reading the United forum
Happy to turn another person on to Muphry's law, btw. Always likely to get corrected when you trot it out
The rebuilding part will take time, because:
1. We have a money-tight owner;
2. Our scout system is so bad, they can only suggest the obvious (expensive) players (Maguire, AWB). James, I think our best purchase, was supposedly Giggs recommendation.
3. So many "deadwoods" on high wages and it is hard to find buyers.
4. The CEO is clueless about long-term planning.
Ole has made a good and steady progress (not amazing). His first games in charge gives a glimpses of what his team about. He just need to find the Cantona or Ronaldo, magical player who can lift up the whole team. Every good team has at least one of these magical player in attack. He needs to get this kind of player at any cost.
1. We have a money-tight owner;
2. Our scout system is so bad, they can only suggest the obvious (expensive) players (Maguire, AWB). James, I think our best purchase, was supposedly Giggs recommendation.
3. So many "deadwoods" on high wages and it is hard to find buyers.
4. The CEO is clueless about long-term planning.
Ole has made a good and steady progress (not amazing). His first games in charge gives a glimpses of what his team about. He just need to find the Cantona or Ronaldo, magical player who can lift up the whole team. Every good team has at least one of these magical player in attack. He needs to get this kind of player at any cost.
There's 2 of them, both residing in Germany at present. Kai Havertz (I won't mind if it's for Pogba, the money would help) and Jadon Sancho. They could launch us into a whole new era of success. Of course we need a solid DM behind them but those kids could be the catalyst for our revival.
This thead is fun to read.
Most jose out brigade is scrambling early to stick in some nice excuse for their golden boy ole.
As long as his 3 signings is doing fine, and you call that manchester united manager standard?? And yet vehemently refuse the notion that standards are being butchered because he's a smiling baby faced legend.
If he doesnt buy a midfielder it's because of the big bad ed. If he bought three defenders it's because of his genious.
I'm keeping my tab on this thread.
Most jose out brigade is scrambling early to stick in some nice excuse for their golden boy ole.
As long as his 3 signings is doing fine, and you call that manchester united manager standard?? And yet vehemently refuse the notion that standards are being butchered because he's a smiling baby faced legend.
If he doesnt buy a midfielder it's because of the big bad ed. If he bought three defenders it's because of his genious.
I'm keeping my tab on this thread.
Even if the above is true. I dont trust a 5 year rebuilt plan on the hands of a manager that cant even finish top 6 managing manchester united all things considered.
Used to be top 4. But since its ole i give him plus 2 handicap
If it is true that we have the 6th best first XI and squad (I agree) why would you expect any better than 6th?
I’m down with this. Ole would be nuts and I just don’t think he is.
I'm equally excited as i am nervous about this weekend. As soon as i saw the fixture list i had a feeling that Ole would be under immense pressure after a couple of months because i couldn't see a way we come out with a strong points tally. I hope I'm wrong but the start we've had, plus injuries and more depleted squad makes me think there's a huge shit storm on the horizon.
It's definitely fun to watch certain posters repeating their personal feelings about Ole ad nauseam, while purposely ignoring context. Also a treat to see them complain about his CV while ignoring the previous two managers were hired mainly based on their CVs and failed. Oh wait, I almost forgot how I'm rolling on the floor laughing at those wanting to sack a manager 4 matches into his first transfer window, even though he nearly, unexpectedly got that said team into the top 4. Comical stuff I must admit.
Now this will have you in stitches: Imagine a fanbase hailing a former manager for finishing second place and nowhere near a title challenge, yet that same manager publicly stated that the same team could challenge for a title before the season started.
You can't make this stuff up.You're right. The delusions of others are quite hilarious.
Yep, the problem again as we have seen is when 10% of the fans in the ground are doing it, there will be no traction.
I think we are lowering standards, absolutely.
This is a huge, wealthy club with a load of very good established players and host of promising youngsters too.
Moyes was the wrong man, but wasn't dealt a great hand with several players clearly thinking he was below them. LvG was from another era. Jose had a go but ultimately sabotaged himself, same as ever. Three managers, none of whom have been a decent attacking coach, and none of whom have been enthusiastic and positive personalities.
So we go for Ole, because "nothing else has worked, so why not". No. We've had three ill suited coaches. We're not a special case. This club isn't different. We shouldn't be giving ex players time because we think it's going to bring us back to the glory days. He's done a shit job for the last six months.
I don't think he'll be sacked, and I do think results will improve (because we've a good squad of players - of course we're going to go on a run at some point), but I don't think that's the point. We've definitely lowered our standards, and I don't think you'd find many (any?) big clubs behaving the way we are. When you're the one doing things differently, you're probably doing it wrong.
This is a huge, wealthy club with a load of very good established players and host of promising youngsters too.
Moyes was the wrong man, but wasn't dealt a great hand with several players clearly thinking he was below them. LvG was from another era. Jose had a go but ultimately sabotaged himself, same as ever. Three managers, none of whom have been a decent attacking coach, and none of whom have been enthusiastic and positive personalities.
So we go for Ole, because "nothing else has worked, so why not". No. We've had three ill suited coaches. We're not a special case. This club isn't different. We shouldn't be giving ex players time because we think it's going to bring us back to the glory days. He's done a shit job for the last six months.
I don't think he'll be sacked, and I do think results will improve (because we've a good squad of players - of course we're going to go on a run at some point), but I don't think that's the point. We've definitely lowered our standards, and I don't think you'd find many (any?) big clubs behaving the way we are. When you're the one doing things differently, you're probably doing it wrong.
This is why you shouldn’t appoint club legends in managerial positions.
Let’s be honest, his record since becoming permanent manager has been absolutely shambolic.
If we had appointed erling Moe instead of Ole and results were exactly the same people would not be half as accommodating to the terrible form.
Let’s be honest, his record since becoming permanent manager has been absolutely shambolic.
If we had appointed erling Moe instead of Ole and results were exactly the same people would not be half as accommodating to the terrible form.
Let's see who's laughing at the end of this seasonIt's definitely fun to watch certain posters repeating their personal feelings about Ole ad nauseam, while purposely ignoring context. Also a treat to see them complain about his CV while ignoring the previous two managers were hired mainly based on their CVs and failed. Oh wait, I almost forgot how I'm rolling on the floor laughing at those wanting to sack a manager 4 matches into his first transfer window, even though he nearly, unexpectedly got that said team into the top 4. Comical stuff I must admit.
Now this will have you in stitches: Imagine a fanbase hailing a former manager for finishing second place and nowhere near a title challenge, yet that same manager publicly stated that the same team could challenge for a title before the season started.
You're right. The delusions of others are quite hilarious.
JM cultism still going strong i see, while in the same time some of those from JM days became what they disliked at the time. This place is bonkers.
Unless you would rather be proven right than see the team you support win, it's not about laughing at the end of the season. It's mainly about resisting the urge to moan like a toddler when the current manager is 4 matches into his first transfer window. It simple stuff and hardly too much to ask.
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We finished 2nd. That's going to be our best league finish for years to come.