Why are we dropping the standards for Ole?

[In Rainbows]

We finished 2nd. That's going to be our best league finish for years to come.

Nobody cares about 2nd. 2nd when you're out of the title race by December is meaningless. What people care more is how the team is progressing, and it was clear in that 2nd season that the on pitch chemistry was terrible, we weren't making an improvement in our counter attacks (a staple of past successful Jose sides), and statistics were clearly pointing to us relying on de Gea (most chances conceded of top 6, and least chances created of top 6). I actually thought we underperformed in his first season, but was more hopeful after that season.

And just so we're clear, the only reason why I'm not Ole out at this moment in time is because the season just started after a transfer window. If he doesn't get top 4, I will firmly be in the Ole out camp. I was never a big fan of his appointment, but he was hired. Now that the no preseason fitness excuse is thrown out, he has no excuses.

 

[Sky1981]

Unless you would rather be proven right than see the team you support win, it's not about laughing at the end of the season. It's mainly about resisting the urge to moan like a toddler when the current manager is 4 matches into his first transfer window. It simple stuff and hardly too much to ask.

Ah the magical only 4 matches in.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

If it is true that we have the 6th best first XI and squad (I agree) why would you expect any better than 6th?

Why would you want a manager at United who can't get the team playing better than the sum of its parts?

 

[Born2Lose]

Because we've finally realised that it's a root and branch job, and for jobs like that you don't hire mercs like Mourinho looking for a cop or two and the eventual settlement when he gets sacked.

Whatever you think of Ole, Maguire, AWB and James are proving to be very astute signings that fit even if he isn't the manager long term.

 

[Leftback99]

Why would you want a manager at United who can't get the team playing better than the sum of its parts?

It would be great, unfortunately there is no sure thing. Name a manager that has regularly over achieved near the top of the PL compared to the quality of their squad?

 

[noodlehair]

Partly because our squad has poorer players than under any of the previous three managers. Partly because he's Ole. Partly because he's explained what he wants to do to build a team for the long term rather than short.

Also partly because we haven't. If we aren't closing the gap on City or if we serve up similar shite to what we did under LVG or Mourinho, he'll get the same reaction. If anything some people will be less patient as Jose and LVG both had a cult element of fans who thought they could never do wrong.

 

[MackRobinson]

Ah the magical only 4 matches in.

I was struggling to see the point you're attempting to make, but now I realize you aren't actually trying to make one. I'm trying to guess what your next, random one-liner will be.

 

[El Zoido]

I really don’t know what people expect. Or maybe I do and it’s that their expectations clash with reality.

Ole has basically done everything United fans have asked for for the past five years: cleared out and marginalised “deadwood”, playing young players and attacking football, immediately addressing key areas of the squad that needed strengthening (AWB, Maguire). It’s true the results have not been great, but the football has noticeably improved and we could easily have won at least 3 of these games on another day. If we keep playing like this the results will follow. Contrast that with Mourinho, where we were getting results but felt that if we kept playing like that we’d eventually come unstuck.

It’s amazing how fine the margins are in football, if we had one quality striker we could be looking a very good side. I think it would be criminal to ditch him now and have another new guy come in and tear everything up once again. What will it take for fans to realise that there’s no magic solution where we get back to the top overnight. Part of the climb involves a struggle.

 

[Sky1981]

I was struggling to see the point you're attempting to make, but now I realize you aren't actually trying to make one. I'm trying to guess what your next, random one-liner will be.

At what point would you admit you're wrong and accept ole isnt the man for the job? Seriously.

2 years? 3 years? Top 6? Top 8?

 

[Sky1981]

I really don’t know what people expect. Or maybe I do and it’s that their expectations clash with reality.

Ole has basically done everything United fans have asked for for the past five years: cleared out and marginalised “deadwood”, playing young players and attacking football, immediately addressing key areas of the squad that needed strengthening (AWB, Maguire). It’s true the results have not been great, but the football has noticeably improved and we could easily have won at least 3 of these games on another day. If we keep playing like this the results will follow. Contrast that with Mourinho, where we were getting results but felt that if we kept playing like that we’d eventually come unstuck.

It’s amazing how fine the margins are in football, if we had one quality striker we could be looking a very good side. I think it would be criminal to ditch him now and have another new guy come in and tear everything up once again. What will it take for fans to realise that there’s no magic solution where we get back to the top overnight. Part of the climb involves a struggle.

The same can be said to any manager. If that robbins never scored that goal. If scholes goal vs porto wasnt disallowed there would be no mourinho.

Sadly we dont deal with if and buts in football.

 

[romufc]

At what point would you admit you're wrong and accept ole isnt the man for the job? Seriously.

2 years? 3 years? Top 6? Top 8?

He is not the man for what job? the job fans think he has? or the job the CEO thinks he has?

Fans want to win the league.

Club are happy for top 6. So in that he is the best man for the job. Doesn't cause issues, gets on with the job, will not question the board.

Ole doens't want the high earners which other managers will crave for, so the club can get away with spending less.

 

[Shark]

He is not the man for what job? the job fans think he has? or the job the CEO thinks he has?

Fans want to win the league.

Club are happy for top 6. So in that he is the best man for the job. Doesn't cause issues, gets on with the job, will not question the board.

Ole doens't want the high earners which other managers will crave for, so the club can get away with spending less.

What exactly do you base this this on? our past three managers were sacked, one of them straight after winning the FA cup, for finishing outside the top four. This is something that those passionately defending Ole need to understand, if we finished 6th/7th/8th or even lower, which is entirely possible, he'll be sacked.

 

[Sky1981]

He is not the man for what job? the job fans think he has? or the job the CEO thinks he has?

Fans want to win the league.

Club are happy for top 6. So in that he is the best man for the job. Doesn't cause issues, gets on with the job, will not question the board.

Ole doens't want the high earners which other managers will crave for, so the club can get away with spending less.

I'm not sure what's your point

 

[El Zoido]

The same can be said to any manager. If that robbins never scored that goal. If scholes goal vs porto wasnt disallowed there would be no mourinho.

Sadly we dont deal with if and buts in football.

But you see it all the time with teams. Teams that look promising but then sign one or two players that unleash the potential of the greater whole. Like I said, fine margins. We’re not a relegation team getting stuffed by three or four goals every week. We’ve been the better team in every game so far this season. Definitely on the right track and need to stick with it. The results will come.

 

[romufc]

What exactly do you base this this on? our past three managers were sacked, one of them straight after winning the FA cup, for finishing outside the top four. This is something that those passionately defending Ole need to understand, if we finished 6th/7th/8th or even lower, which is entirely possible, he'll be sacked.

I am basing this on everyone at the club calling this a transitional period. Any club with ambition for succeeding knows; if the manager has told you he does not rate Lukaku / Sanchez which was known early on in Ole's reign, if we get rid of them we are leaving ourselves short. Not replacing them, not bolstering the midfield.

I agree in that if he finishes below top 4 he should be sacked.

 

[romufc]

I'm not sure what's your point

My point is he is the right man in the eyes of the club

Not in the eyes of fans.

 

[Sky1981]

But you see it all the time with teams. Teams that look promising but then sign one or two players that unleash the potential of the greater whole. Like I said, fine margins. We’re not a relegation team getting stuffed by three or four goals every week. We’ve been the better team in every game so far this season. Definitely on the right track and need to stick with it. The results will come.

I fail to see what good track we've had so far?

Our attacking is still a mess there's no system, there's no style, go make a thread here and ask "what's actually our system"? Bet half the answer would be different one to another.

Our supposed star player has underperformed for 15 games at least. Our youngster lingard and the gang fails to look like a well coached player.

The only good player in ole squad is actually 3 new players that trains somewhere else the last 4mths.

What progress?

People say they clearly see what he's trying to do. I fail to see even what's his starting 11 are.

 

[Sky1981]

My point is he is the right man in the eyes of the club

Not in the eyes of fans.

You do know that the board has sacked anyone not delivering champions league. How is that happy with top 6? If they're happy with top 6 van gaal would still be here

 

[romufc]

You do know that the board has sacked anyone not delivering champions league. How is that happy with top 6? If they're happy with top 6 van gaal would still be here

Yes, they sacked the manager EVERY TIME they didn'g get top 4. LVG and Mourinho got top 4 once in both their tenures.

The club knows once the manager is not performing the fans will be with the club in sacking the manager, when the real problem is not actually the manager.

 

[Denis79]

Arsenal were pretty good at getting the top 4 though

They made the CL like 19 times in a row I think?

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

It would be great, unfortunately there is no sure thing. Name a manager that has regularly over achieved near the top of the PL compared to the quality of their squad?

Why have a manager then, if only the squad matters why doesn't Ed just assume that role.

I would say Klopp does regularly. He used to have milner, henderson and ox in midfield and outplayed most teams. Spurs squad is only considered good because Poch made them good. Son, Dele Ali, Kane were coached by Poch to what they are now. Ferguson is the obvious one. With lesser teams he regularly beat Chelsea and City.
Here we aren't even talking top 3. We want Ole to be better than Arsenal and Chelsea with a team he himself shaped over the summer.

 

[TRUERED89]

Yes, they sacked the manager EVERY TIME they didn'g get top 4. LVG and Mourinho got top 4 once in both their tenures.

The club knows once the manager is not performing the fans will be with the club in sacking the manager, when the real problem is not actually the manager.

Jose got CL twice, if you're counting winning EL and then finishing that distant 2nd to City.

 

[romufc]

Jose got CL twice, if you're counting winning EL and then finishing that distant 2nd to City.

Yes, winning EL is not the same as top 4 last time I checked?

So Ole who could win the EL this season and finish 6th? is that progress?

In my opinion top 4 is success regardless what happens in the EL

 

[TsuWave]

The barometer of progress for Ole at this stage is wheyher his signings have been successful or not.

what the feck

Ole is getting such a free ride.

 

[Garethw]

At what point would you admit you're wrong and accept ole isnt the man for the job? Seriously.

2 years? 3 years? Top 6? Top 8?

It’s the same cycle repeating itself over again. We had fans refusing to believe Moyes, LVG and Mourinho were the wrong fit and were truly believing that it was everything else that was wrong at the club apart from the manager.

 

[Champagne Football]

what the feck

Ole is getting such a free ride.

His 3 signings are our 3 best players, and will all probably spend the rest of their careers here. Scott McT has gone from a guy who Jose would start 2 or 3 times per season, to an undroppable midfield force. Greenwood will soon be a starter worth 80 million. Garner will be worth 80 million in a year or two if he avoids injuries. We're a Declan Rice and a Jadon Sancho away from being a nailed on top 4 team again.

But hey, we could have just hired some fashionable coach like Allegri and spent 500 million on a quick fix, and brought in Willian for 80 million instead of James...... Oh wait that sounds familiar

 

[GazTheLegend]

What's the last 16 games like for Pochettino? Guess Spurs should sack him too right?

Spot on.

Shite form for our club, but also for Poch’s tottenham, Chelsea etc.

Our standards are super high, which is why we can’t just expect to spend money and solve problems - but if you look under the hood - we spent a LOT Of money on teenage talent across Europe to develop and apparently there is now some sort of long term plan.

Pain in the short term is to be expected.

 

[rotherham_red]

Jose got CL twice, if you're counting winning EL and then finishing that distant 2nd to City.

Ah yes, that legendary season where Jose took the LvG team which finished level with City on 4th and only missed out on GD. promptly spent 180m on it and took us to the heady heights of... 6th.

 

[Ødegaard]

His 3 signings are our 3 best players, and will all probably spend the rest of their careers here. Scott McT has gone from a guy who Jose would start 2 or 3 times per season, to an undroppable midfield force. Greenwood will soon be a starter worth 80 million. Garner will be worth 80 million in a year or two if he avoids injuries. We're a Declan Rice and a Jadon Sancho away from being a nailed on top 4 team again.

But hey, we could have just hired some fashionable coach like Allegri and spent 500 million on a quick fix, and brought in Willian for 80 million instead of James...... Oh wait that sounds familiar

That level of delusion is remarkable.

 

[TRUERED89]

Ah yes, that legendary season where Jose took the LvG team which finished level with City on 4th and only missed out on GD. promptly spent 180m on it and took us to the heady heights of... 6th.

Just to be clear, I'm not a Jose advocate, feck him.. Just stating he did get CL twice.

 

[rotherham_red]

Just to be clear, I'm not a Jose advocate, feck him.. Just stating he did get CL twice.

Haha, just so long as we're clear

 

[Raw]

Greenwood will soon be a starter worth 80 million. Garner will be worth 80 million in a year or two if he avoids injuries

How can you be so sure of that?!

 

[fergiesarmy1]

It’s the same cycle repeating itself over again. We had fans refusing to believe Moyes, LVG and Mourinho were the wrong fit and were truly believing that it was everything else that was wrong at the club apart from the manager.

The same cycle is sacking another manager, starting again and expecting things to improve.

It’s only been 4 games let’s give it at least 6 hey

 

[romufc]

His 3 signings are our 3 best players, and will all probably spend the rest of their careers here. Scott McT has gone from a guy who Jose would start 2 or 3 times per season, to an undroppable midfield force. Greenwood will soon be a starter worth 80 million. Garner will be worth 80 million in a year or two if he avoids injuries. We're a Declan Rice and a Jadon Sancho away from being a nailed on top 4 team again.

But hey, we could have just hired some fashionable coach like Allegri and spent 500 million on a quick fix, and brought in Willian for 80 million instead of James...... Oh wait that sounds familiar

A bit of a weird post because there is aspects I agree and some I disagree.

I think the signings have been brilliant but the comment about Declan Rice is an interesting one which kind of contradicts yourself? So we will have an undropable McT with Declan who are somewhat similar and have Garner worth £80m? How do you intend on getting 3 youngsters playing regularly in our midfield - all 3 similar CM/CDM type players.

I agree with Jadon Sancho, we 100% need him.

We have not seen enough of either Greenwood or Garner to have any indication of their values. Rashford was valued last season by fans at 100m, today I read someone saying they would be happy with £30m.

I agree about the manager, fans keep wanting Allegri, Tuchel.. our fan group never learn from mistakes.

 

[TRUERED89]

His 3 signings are our 3 best players, and will all probably spend the rest of their careers here. Scott McT has gone from a guy who Jose would start 2 or 3 times per season, to an undroppable midfield force. Greenwood will soon be a starter worth 80 million. Garner will be worth 80 million in a year or two if he avoids injuries. We're a Declan Rice and a Jadon Sancho away from being a nailed on top 4 team again.

But hey, we could have just hired some fashionable coach like Allegri and spent 500 million on a quick fix, and brought in Willian for 80 million instead of James...... Oh wait that sounds familiar

Even saying that about Greenwood is insanely optimistic, but Garner? Who hasn't played 1 second in the PL?

 

[Jonno]

But hey, we could have just hired some fashionable coach like Allegri and spent 500 million on a quick fix, and brought in Willian for 80 million instead of James...... Oh wait that sounds familiar

Or a fashionable manager could have signed both Willian and James and we'd have a far superior forward line.... oh wait, we aren't capable.

 

[Sky1981]

His 3 signings are our 3 best players, and will all probably spend the rest of their careers here. Scott McT has gone from a guy who Jose would start 2 or 3 times per season, to an undroppable midfield force. Greenwood will soon be a starter worth 80 million. Garner will be worth 80 million in a year or two if he avoids injuries. We're a Declan Rice and a Jadon Sancho away from being a nailed on top 4 team again.

But hey, we could have just hired some fashionable coach like Allegri and spent 500 million on a quick fix, and brought in Willian for 80 million instead of James...... Oh wait that sounds familiar

Undropable midfield force

Mctorminay

 

[Hawks2008]

His 3 signings are our 3 best players, and will all probably spend the rest of their careers here. Scott McT has gone from a guy who Jose would start 2 or 3 times per season, to an undroppable midfield force. Greenwood will soon be a starter worth 80 million. Garner will be worth 80 million in a year or two if he avoids injuries. We're a Declan Rice and a Jadon Sancho away from being a nailed on top 4 team again.

But hey, we could have just hired some fashionable coach like Allegri and spent 500 million on a quick fix, and brought in Willian for 80 million instead of James...... Oh wait that sounds familiar

Lots of hyperbole here

• Yeah, the signings have all started well and hope they continue to do well, only 4 games though and we've seen false dawns from signings before.
• Scott has been pretty meh thus far season, hardly undroppable or a force.. I like him a lot but lets not go overboard.
• Greenwood and Garner have shown nothing at this level. We all have high hopes for them but there is no grounds to make such claims.
• The midfield needs more than just Declan Rice, and I'd wager he is no better than Scott who is already here. His limited passing game would be exposed at a team that tries to use the ball. A creative midfielder is a more urgent need than a clogger like Rice IMO.
• Yeah, Sancho is one of the top prospects in Europe and would elevate our attacking play so much. Whether we can attract him is another thing entirely.
• Even if we did sign those 2, we'd still lack a prolific striker which will hold us back a lot. Other players like Shaw, Lindelof, Lingard still getting regular games that may not be good enough to play here long term. Squad needs lots of work unless all our kids suddenly come good. This is without thinking of Pogba and DDG potentially departing leaving us short of our 2 best players.
• Agreed on Allegri, I wouldn't want him or his style of play here and not sure he could oversee a rebuild, also a choker. Still has more pedigree than Ole though. I don't think he is the right man for it but that doesn't mean Ole is the right man either.

 

[roonster09]

Or a fashionable manager could have signed both Willian and James and we'd have a far superior forward line.... oh wait, we aren't capable.

Yeah superior forward line which would have struggled to score goals. We have goal scoring issues, so the answer is not adding one more wingers who barely contributes to goals and assists.

 

[TsuWave]

Scott McT has gone from a guy who Jose would start 2 or 3 times per season, to an undroppable midfield force. Greenwood will soon be a starter worth 80 million. Garner will be worth 80 million in a year or two if he avoids injuries. We're a Declan Rice and a Jadon Sancho away from being a nailed on top 4 team again.

now I know you’re taking the piss

for fecks sake