England squad (Games against Bulgaria and Kosovo)

1966

Full Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
418
Location
UK
Supports
England
Pochettino.

I'm kidding .. kind of. But our central midfielders in general do have a horrible habit of playing crab football.
I've noticed. It's very odd and has been a real problem for you over the past year or two, with Kane having to drop far deeper than he ideally should to collect the ball (especially and most noticeably last season).

As Kane is my favourite player, I watch every Spurs game so for all intents and purposes, I'm as clued in on the club as a supporter. If I supported any club, which I don't for philosophical reasons, it would be Spurs.
 

1966

Full Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
418
Location
UK
Supports
England
Starting XI for tomorrow will be
Pickford - Alexander-Arnold, Keane, Maguire, Chilwell - Henderson, Rice, Barkley - Sterling, Kane, Sancho
I'd be okay with that. It'd be nice to see some movement in the midfield but given the significance of accruing points in qualifiers this time around (which I actually support as a system), Kosovo are probably the only team against whom we should avoid major starting XI experiments.

Though, to be honest, I'd be quietly confident of a win at home regardless of our XI. Kosovo, as by far the second best team in our group at present and one full of confidence, will be the only one likely to open up enough to favour our play style -- unless some other team is cutting it fine points-wise down the line when we play them.
 
Last edited:

1966

Full Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
418
Location
UK
Supports
England
------------------Kane (200m)
Sterling (150m)--Maddison (90m)--Sancho (120m)
------------Winks (50m)----Rice (50m)
Shaw/Chilwell (30m)--Maguire (80m)--Gomez (50m)--TAA (75m)

That squad would cost about 900m, and still I'm not sure it would land the League title.
No international team could win the PL. That's an absolutely absurd benchmark.

Beating any team 4-0 is a good result nowadays. I ve seen England struggling against shit teams in the past, so a 4-0 win is more than welcome
For starters, this is all true. To add on: people have this ridiculous idea that the scoreline differential in a game should be a linear function of the difference in quality between the two teams, which is completely wrong.

The top international teams will very often, if not the overwhelming majority of the time, score more against a 30th-ranked team that comes to play and win than a 60th-ranked team that deploys a 9-1-0 formation.

The only exceptions occur with teams ranked near the very bottom, like San Marino, full of part-timers who can't even park the bus effectively against good teams. In those cases, it is as simple as judging teams by the extent to which they slaughter the minnow. (I say this with the best of intentions; I'm always happy when San Marino et al. get a result, unless it's against us)


Furthermore, to the people who say that watching England is boring, it's because you're not really very invested in England. As someone whose only team is England, it's much like watching your club team play far worse opposition: you wouldn't describe it as boring, even though other clubs' supporters would, because you massively care about the outcome and the win above all else.

There's also nothing the England team can do that's going to make qualifiers particularly exciting for neutrals or to raise the stakes. They're playing minnows where the disparity in quality is too big to even occur domestically outside of the FA Cup (and maybe LC). Taken in that context, watching England is no more boring than a lot of early-round FA Cup ties that follow the same basic key-vs-lock formula.

Other top teams playing minnows are usually equally "boring" from the perspective of pure footballing spectacle -- and if you think we're boring now where were you 4 years ago? That team got hard for me to watch at times. We're actually so much better than we were a few years back when squeezing out 1-0 wins against the same standard of opposition. Now we're taking everyone down for 4 or 5 and no match with that many goals can be entirely boring. The current standard is pornographic compared to what I've had to endure in recent memory.

Qualifiers are by their very nature boring affairs in Europe for any (semi-)neutral because of the teams UEFA has to deal with. The only universally interesting occasions are when two big rivals and/or very well-matched countries meet (40th vs 45th is almost always more interesting than 4th vs 45th). I don't support a pre-qualifying stage for constructed moral reasons but there's no doubt that it would drastically improve the average standard of matches.

I imagine I feel the same way about, say, Newcastle vs Southampton as some of you do about the average England qualifier. There are many objectively, horrendously boring matches even in the PL.

And, yes, supporting England as your only team is as arduous as it sounds. I just can't bring myself to support a corporation: only supporting countries makes sense to me. But, hey, I guess Man City would be a good fit if I ever change my mind.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Ødegaard

Yagami

Good post resistant
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
13,472
When Winks first broke out with Spurs, he was always looking for the forward pass and played very well this way in some high stakes matches against good or great opponents. He was widely viewed by Spurs fans as a new creative CM for a while.

His slow regression to conservative sideways/backwards passing is a bit of a mystery. If the conundrum can be solved, however, I could see him doing a job for us in one of the creative roles we desperately need.

I wonder if you might be right about the confidence thing. It certainly didn't come from management: no coach is going to hammer the creativity out of a midfielder intentionally.

But he also had no rational reason to lose confidence. Even when he was constantly looking forward, he had very respectable pass completion stats. I can only visualise it being something psychological he needs to overcome. Perhaps he's a bit of a pathological perfectionist or too afraid of making mistakes. Alternatively or additionally, he seems somewhat injury prone, which, unless you've got the attitude of a Kane, can definitely make you play more timidly (but shouldn't really affect your range of passing or decision-making).

Get Winks sorted and I reckon he'll be a consistent option, barring injury, for a long time to come. Though the "England DNA" crop steadily coming through the pipeline will hopefully give him a robust challenge since they'll all have been inculcated in the ways of a more creative style of play from the beginning.
You make some good points about Winks' regression into a more conservative player, too. The bits about him being a perfectionist in regards to his stats and the toll his injury problems may have had on him especially.

Again, I liken him back to Cleverley. He was someone who favoured a high pass completion stat (as seen by some interviews he gave as a United player when defending his style of play), and also seemed to lose something about him after an injury away to Bolton in 11/12, and some successive ones the same season that kept him out for most of said season.

Before the Kevin Davies tackle, he was a really progressive CM those first few games and, during his loans to the likes of Wigan and Watford, he was pretty much an attacking midfielder or winger rather than a CM, and seemed to contribute well to said teams attacks.

I liked Cleverley but Winks is obviously a more natural footballer and, in general, just better, but his issues in regards to becoming a conservative player really does remind me of Tom. I digress, though!
 

Revan

Assumptionman
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
49,419
Location
London
I'd be okay with that. It'd be nice to see some movement in the midfield but given the significance of accruing points in qualifiers this time around (which I actually support as a system), Kosovo are probably the only team against whom we should avoid major starting XI experiments.

Though, to be honest, I'd be quietly confident of a win at home regardless of our XI. Kosovo, as by far the second best team in our group at present and one full of confidence, will be the only one likely to open up enough to favour our play style -- unless some other team is cutting it fine points-wise down the line when we play them.
Yep, Kosovo is a very attacking team, whom at the same time is quite vulnerable at the back. This works well when we play against teams which are more or less our level (the other teams in the group), but I cannot see it at all working against England whom have a much higher quality squad.

Also, it doesn't help that some of our best players are missing, making this mission even more impossible.
 

GenZRed

Full Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Messages
634
Why isn't Lewis Cook (Bournemouth player) ever talked about being selected for England? A couple of years ago he was highly regarded as being an emerging talent, yet since the WC he is never mentioned in terms of playing for England.

I know he was on stand by for the World Cup in case any other players got injured,
 
Last edited by a moderator:

SquishyMcSquish

New Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
8,198
Supports
Tottenham
Does Southgate just really not rate Maddison?

Didn't even get off the bench against Bulgaria. Not starting vs Kosovo, even the callup itself is seriously overdue.
 

Jimmy Skitz

Full Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2013
Messages
2,555
Location
Leicester
Supports
Leicester City
Does Southgate just really not rate Maddison?

Didn't even get off the bench against Bulgaria. Not starting vs Kosovo, even the callup itself is seriously overdue.
seems that just like the media, he has decided Maddison only ever plays as a no 10, a position he hasn't played for us since Youri Tielemans debut as he's either played in a midfield 3 or on the left of the front 3
 

SquishyMcSquish

New Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
8,198
Supports
Tottenham
seems that just like the media, he has decided Maddison only ever plays as a no 10, a position he hasn't played for us since Youri Tielemans debut as he's either played in a midfield 3 or on the left of the front 3
Weird.

I mean, we have total shite for midfielders so it's hardly some big risk. Does he actually think he's a worse player than Ross Barkley?
 

SquishyMcSquish

New Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
8,198
Supports
Tottenham
Southgate like Poch likes grafters, Maddison isn't really that type.
Ergh .. I understand needing legs in midfield but you need creativity, especially against teams you're expected to dominate against.

I like some of what Southgate is trying to do, and the results speak for themselves, but we did struggle with scoring from open play in the World Cup. Wouldn't be surprised to see the same at the Euros if he favours a team full of grafters over genuine creativity and ability, most sides need a healthy mix of both.
 

Classical Mechanic

Full Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
35,216
Location
xG Zombie Nation
Why isn't Lewis Cook (Bournemouth player) ever talked about being selected for England? A couple of years ago he was highly regarded as being an emerging talent, yet since the WC he is never mentioned in terms of playing for England.

I know he was on stand by for the World Cup in case any other players got injured,
He was captain of the 21s but did his ACL last season and hasn't returned to action yet. He has played for the seniors once and I'd be amazed if he doesn't again. He's won a few trophies with the age groups sides.
 

GenZRed

Full Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Messages
634
He was captain of the 21s but did his ACL last season and hasn't returned to action yet. He has played for the seniors once and I'd be amazed if he doesn't again. He's won a few trophies with the age groups sides.
Oh yeah I forgot about that ACL injury. Thanks for reminding me.
 

mav_9me

Full Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2009
Messages
12,400
Southgate like Poch likes grafters, Maddison isn't really that type.
Barkley is hardly a grafter himself. I genuinely don't see what Barkley does in this England team or for that matter in the Chelsea team.
 

Sean_RedDevil

Twitter bot
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Messages
21,364
Location
NYC (Before Manchester+Hamburg)
Why isn't Lewis Cook (Bournemouth player) ever talked about being selected for England? A couple of years ago he was highly regarded as being an emerging talent, yet since the WC he is never mentioned in terms of playing for England.

I know he was on stand by for the World Cup in case any other players got injured,
He was captain of the 21s but did his ACL last season and hasn't returned to action yet. He has played for the seniors once and I'd be amazed if he doesn't again. He's won a few trophies with the age groups sides.
He would start in my England XI.
 

RedCurry

Full Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2016
Messages
4,686
Ergh .. I understand needing legs in midfield but you need creativity, especially against teams you're expected to dominate against.

I like some of what Southgate is trying to do, and the results speak for themselves, but we did struggle with scoring from open play in the World Cup. Wouldn't be surprised to see the same at the Euros if he favours a team full of grafters over genuine creativity and ability, most sides need a healthy mix of both.
I understand where he's coming from though. Putting creative players makes a lot of sense if you have genuinely good players to play that role. If England had an Eriksen, he'd play over any grafters in the midfield. A genuine play making #10 is something England has struggled to find since I can remember. Might as well be solid in midfield and hope your attacking players as well as wing backs can create and score goals.
 

Revan

Assumptionman
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
49,419
Location
London
Four attacking players in Kosovo's lineup, which likely guarantees an open game. Sancho starting instead of Rashford as expected.

2-3
 

Revan

Assumptionman
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
49,419
Location
London
Your prediction is a 3-2 win for Kosovo?
More like hoping, but I think it will be a heavy and very easy victory for England. Kosovo can't defend at all and are very attacking, which won't work against a superior team.
 

Sean_RedDevil

Twitter bot
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Messages
21,364
Location
NYC (Before Manchester+Hamburg)
More like hoping, but I think it will be a heavy and very easy victory for England. Kosovo can't defend at all and are very attacking, which won't work against a superior team.
Of course i think we will win but you know the results and performances since the World Cup qualification were so good for Kosovo therefore i can't see another "very easy victory" for England tonight.
 

Revan

Assumptionman
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
49,419
Location
London
Of course i think we will win but you know the results and performances since the World Cup qualification were so good for Kosovo therefore i can't see another "very easy victory" for England tonight.
Kosovo is more like Bournemouth rather than Pulis' Stoke City. Nice to watch but will get outgunned against a top team. 15 matches without a defeat are impressive but the only good team they played in that series was Denmark, and the non totally shit were Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Montenegro and Albania. Would be very surprised if England doesn't win by 3 goals.
 

Yagami

Good post resistant
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
13,472
I've seen nothing of Kosovo, but I've heard a lot about their attacking style of play so I'm looking forward to tonight's game.

Only disappointment is the midfield in regards to our line-up.