Zidane sack watch - 19/20

[giorno]

The Hazard stories were there last summer as well and the courtship has been longer than a year. Zidane has always wanted Hazard since at least 2017, so am unsure about why you'd lay this at Flo's door. Flo has his flaws and eccentricities, but the Hazard signing is more about giving Zidane a player he's coveted for several years.

Spend €50m on a 16 year old. When he finally turns 18 and joins the team, he has a very promising few months playing a specific position, while showing great difficulties playing anywhere else. The season is a disaster, so what do you do? Sign a guy an accomplished 28 year old world class player who likes to occupy the same positions, is very expensive, and will essentially relegate the kid on the bench for the foreseeable future unless the kid in question quickly learns to play elaewhere - all while demanding the kid in question be a big part of the plans for the season

Not really thought it through i'd say...

Eh? Kroos lost the ball, but Dani was out of position and not holding formation. That's criminal when you're holding on to a hard-earned 1-0 lead with just minutes left to play and the opposition has suddenly started a very good high press in search of an equaliser. If he'd held position, he'd have been able to snuff out the chance. A creative player can always lose the ball. The defender that's not in position has to be held accountable, specially in this context.

The whole defence is out of position because they're taking attacking positions to help move the ball. Kroos botches and easy first touch and gifts them a short counter while our transition defence has no chance to re-set. Sure the blame falls on everyone involved, but the main culprit there is Kroos

The right side was fine - with Bale. My point exactly - since Zidane wanted Bale gone, who would we have been seeing if he'd had his way?

Asensio was to be the starter. Also Vinicius, Rodrygo and Brahim were all going to see minutes mostly there

If he built his plans assuming United would bend over and give him Pogba, he's not only a fool but a very naive one at that.

I guess he must have had assurances by Florentino about it. Still, yeah, that is naive

Here, I'd argue that Zidane was silly not to sign a RW. Unless he was betting on Asensio staying fit and playing every single game, he was always going to face this situation. Now imagine if there was no Bale. You're actually putting the James injury down as an issue - but Zidane wanted him sold too. How many holes was Pogba going to fill exactly?

We don't have infinite money. If the club tells him they expect vinicius and rodrygo(€100m total in transfer fees alone) to figure prominently, then those two(plus brahim, who Zidane rates) are going to take up the back up minutes

Pogba would have fixed the hole in midfield, by adding pace, physicality and real quality in transitions

Hazard is a lot of things - but "prolific goal scorer", he is not. He also does tend to blow hot and cold and will have to have a season far better than any he's ever had for him to make the difference.

Well, not really. One would expect Benzema, Jovic, James and Bale to score their share of goals. If we they do their job and Hazard repeats last season, we'll be fine

And yes, Barca are led by a completely incompetent manager, so expecting issues there is reasonable - but they still have Messi and both Griezmann and Neymar (increasingly likely) can win games with moments of brilliance too.

That's what makes it a minor miracle

 

[carvajal]

I can understand that they lose the fight with Barsa to sign Neymar.
He wants keep his contract, is very expensive, he does not have so much unanimity of the fans and unfortunately he seems to prefer Barcelona, which on the other hand I do not understand either.
He left and comes back to the same scenario while here he would be a god, the total protagonist to be treated with the delicacy that a prima Donna like him deserves.
Right now if they sign him we have no option in la liga.
What I don't understand is that It seems that won't sign any midfielder.
What will happen if Casemiro is injured?
He has to play with James and Bale by obligation and the market is going to end without Van de Beek and Eriksen, who are not anyone's favorites but certainly valid additions.
This is the ideal time for good boos to everyone from the president to certain players

 

[Peyroteo]

The problem for Zidane is that with Barcelona signing Griezmann and apparently Neymar he's 100% fecked from the get go. What is he supposed to do against a team that has Griezmann, Messi, Neymar and Suarez as forwards with world class players everywhere else? Madrid can't compete. The difference in squad quality is huge and it will get even bigger if Neymar signs for Barcelona. That's Florentino's fault, not Zidane's.

One team spends 100 million on Griezmann, the other spends 100 million on Vinicius and Rodrygo... and they have the balls to demand to the manager that he wins right away instead of building a team for the future?

Zidane is a good manager, not a miracle worker. They won't win the league even if he does a great job.

 

[GatoLoco]

The problem for Zidane is that with Barcelona signing Griezmann and apparently Neymar he's 100% fecked from the get go. What is he supposed to do against a team that has Griezmann, Messi, Neymar and Suarez as forwards with world class players everywhere else? Madrid can't compete. The difference in squad quality is huge and it will get even bigger if Neymar signs for Barcelona. That's Florentino's fault, not Zidane's.

One team spends 100 million on Griezmann, the other spends 100 million on Vinicius and Rodrygo... and they have the balls to demand to the manager that he wins right away instead of building a team for the future?

Zidane is a good manager, not a miracle worker. They won't win the league even if he does a great job.

100% agree with everything.

 

[MVBDX]

The problem for Zidane is that with Barcelona signing Griezmann and apparently Neymar he's 100% fecked from the get go. What is he supposed to do against a team that has Griezmann, Messi, Neymar and Suarez as forwards with world class players everywhere else? Madrid can't compete. The difference in squad quality is huge and it will get even bigger if Neymar signs for Barcelona. That's Florentino's fault, not Zidane's.

One team spends 100 million on Griezmann, the other spends 100 million on Vinicius and Rodrygo... and they have the balls to demand to the manager that he wins right away instead of building a team for the future?

Zidane is a good manager, not a miracle worker. They won't win the league even if he does a great job.

Your main point is spot on, a small correction though: Griezmann went for 120M, while Vinicius and Rodrygo went for a combined fee of 90M.

The former will offer immediate results, though he's 28, so no resale value, and we don't know how he'll fare when Messi is back, while The Brazilians were 18 when they were signed, and I think there's a high chance that they'll be the much better "investment" over longterm, even if only one of them pans out. That's speaking from the club's perspective though, not Zidane's, he just has got to deal with the worse cards and play.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

One team spends 100 million on Griezmann, the other spends 100 million on Vinicius and Rodrygo... and they have the balls to demand to the manager that he wins right away instead of building a team for the future?

Zidane is a good manager, not a miracle worker. They won't win the league even if he does a great job.

You should be comparing Barca buying Griezmann to Real buying Hazard. Similar price, same season.

Not comparing a superstar like Griezmann to young players of potential.

 

[Adisa]

I honestly don't think the board are expecting the title. The core of the team is Benzema 32, Modric 33, Bale 30, Ramos 33, Marcelo 31 and lost a 50 goal a season player in Ronaldo at 33. Add to that a Kroos at 29 and has been playing high level football mostly injury free since 18. I don't know what people were expecting. As we saw with our team in 2013, a sligjt drop off in performances when you swuad has that make up, you will struggle. Their squad needed a total makeover and it takes time. I am not sure Zidane is the man. He's never built a squad before.

 

[Peyroteo]

You should be comparing Barca buying Griezmann to Real buying Hazard. Similar price, same season.

Not comparing a superstar like Griezmann to young players of potential.

I was making a point using that example, not comparing the players. Hazard's the one exception where they bought someone to go straight into the starting eleven. Barca finished 20 points ahead and they've had a great summer which can still get better.

Even if Zidane had his way and Pogba was a Real Madrid player... what is he supposed to do when the opposition has Messi, Griezmann, Suarez and possbly Neymar? Madrid have had crazy summers following bad seasons, 2009 when they signed Ronaldo, Kaka, Benzema, etc. stands out. Barcelona are having a crazy summer while having walked the league last season and been very close to a treble, that's a whole other level. Signing De Jong, Griezmann and Neymar after finishing 20 points above Real Madrid is insanity. Worst part is that if they somehow don't win the Champions League, their obsession will grow so big that at this rythm they'll sign Van Dijk, De Bruyne and Mbappe next summer

In all seriousness, Zidane's hardly the best manager in the world but he's a good manager. He accepted a job in which he'd have to perform a miracle in order to not get fired though. The pressure on Florentino will grow so big that there's no way Zidane ends the season if he doesn't win the league or the Champions League.

 

[Marshal]

I agree that winning La Liga to Barcelona is a really difficult task. First of all, Messi alone solved 70% of matches if the team is helping just a bit. Then with the top players they had + Griezmann, De Jong and maybe Neymar, they will really lose very few games this year, only if Valverde is not able to keep them motivated.

But the problem with Zidane is that he is playing with the same players from 5 years ago. Real Madrid decided to invest big in young promises, but then they never get enough chances to grow. Llorente, now in Atlético, last year proved that he could be in the starting 11 before his injury. Ceballos still needs to show more, but for sure he would do better than Isco at this point.

Marcelo, he still has excellent attacking skills, but sometimes he plays like he should already be enjoying retirement in MLS or Qatar. His good days make you win Champions League, but his bad days make you lose leagues. I don't understand how Reguilón is in Sevilla.

These 3 players are to me the ones that show better that Zidan trusts too much the old winners, but it was there time is over since 2 years ago. They won the UCL yes, but the year was already pretty bad overall, and 2 years later is not going to get better.

Another decision, this one maybe coming from above, is that Keylor Navas, a key player during the Zidane era, is relegated by a goalkeeper that didn't deserve to play more than him since he arrived.

 

[RooneyLegend]

I remeber a couple of years ago i said on here that Madrid are going to find it nigh on impossible to replace this group of players and some Madrid fan was adamant that it would be like taking candy from a baby. Now Madrid are in a world of trouble cause the squad is old and frail and there's limited quality on the market. Still cant believe they werent in for Griezmann.

 

[passing-wind]

Think many of you are overrating Barcelona, Suarez has been poor in the fixtures I had seen him last year, looks to me he's lost a yard of pace and his movement and instincts upfront compared to his Liverpool days are more mute.

Griezmann in my opinion aside a decent world cup hasn't done anything to signify being a consistent world class player. If Griezmann and Hazard are both on top form in the same game you can all but guarantee Eden will impose and influence himself more over 90 mins. I know there's a difference positionally in the two but in contrast to the conversations above if Hazard finds his feet he will give Madrid the strongest foundation to win games, this is a man who single handedly carried Chelsea into much success without having a recognised striker since Costa left.

Barcelona will surely have a tactical blunder in the fact that AG and Messi occupy similar attacking positions, much like how Dybala is useless for his national team. The only player that Barcelona will have purchased this window who will massively impact the assertiveness of the team is Neymar.

There's too much emphasis on specific players changing the dynamics of Madrid's fortunes. The real truth is that Zidane should be getting far more out of the squad he has, irrespective Real have probably the second or third best squad in world football. When I think that Klopp has reached two champions league finals and pushed city to the wire (literally) with a rubbish mid table midfield, two consistent attackers and a one man army defence there's no excuse. It is the platform that Jürgen gives Liverpool to perform which gives their team heart, fight and success. What platform has Zidane provided even during his European campaign wins ? I think without Ronaldo Zidane will be found out, Real need someone to mould a cohesive team not rely on a bunch of individual performers to bail out mediocre coaches.

 

[fps]

Bale has been meh week in week out in La Liga, but he's scored in the final so he's worth every penny. Yeah ok.

You know, a Belgian fan that seldomly watches Liverpool might make the case that Origi is one of the most important Liverpool players because he scored two against Barca in the semifinal and one in the final.

His goal scoring record clearly shows he's been better than meh. He's also scored far more important goals than Origi, in quantity and quality. The comparison you draw is obviously a very poor one. But let's delve further into that.
Origi has a total of 64 appearances for Liverpool, and 16 goals. This is 1 goal every 4 games exactly.
At international level, he has 3 goals in 25 appearances.

Bale has a total of 157 appearances for Real Madrid, and 78 goals. This is just under 1 goal ever 2 games. So his record is that he's played a lot more for Madrid, and generally scores double the number of goals Origi will per appearance. Madrid are a better team, but then again, I don't see them moving for Origi - he wouldn't be good enough quality for them, would he? So Real Madrid also believe Origi isn't as good a player as Bale, there is no clamour for them to sign him.
At international level, Bale has 31 goals in 77 appearances. Now, this is definitely a worse team than Belgium, so that's quite interesting, a goal every 2 1/2 games. This is significantly better than Origi as well.

He's also scored more, and better, goals in big matches. It's almost as if this is a terrible comparison you're making which can't be supported in any way. But I can't possibly believe that.

 

[giorno]

But the problem with Zidane is that he is playing with the same players from 5 years ago. Real Madrid decided to invest big in young promises, but then they never get enough chances to grow. Llorente, now in Atlético, last year proved that he could be in the starting 11 before his injury. Ceballos still needs to show more, but for sure he would do better than Isco at this point.

Both Llorente and Ceballos got to work with Lopatego and Solari, both managers were encouraged to promote youth, casemiro even was injured quite a bit and of course Isco had appendicitis, and still Llorente and Ceballos barely played. Llorente hardly seems to start for atletico either....i swear, our fans ability to unreasonably overrate players on the back of a couple promising performances after they leave is maddening[hold this thought]. Half of us for whatever reason seem convinced that the big problem is courtois starting over keylor, ffs

Yes, it *is* a problem that we're starting the same team from 4 years ago. But also, honest, how many CBs, WBs are out there would any of you take over our starters?

Midfield's the biggest problem

Marcelo, he still has excellent attacking skills, but sometimes he plays like he should already be enjoying retirement in MLS or Qatar. His good days make you win Champions League, but his bad days make you lose leagues.

He's had one poor, injury-marred season. But yeah, we've been kind of a mess in terms of planning. Same as at every other position

I don't understand how Reguilón is in Sevilla.

Case in point. Reguilon is in Sevilla because we went and signed a €50m LB, a guy we evidently believe is good enough to be a starter should Marcelo prove unreliable. Reguilon, that we saw last season, could not be a starter for us.

That said signing a 50m WB in the hopes of him being a backup is completely messed up, given our other many, many needs

Another decision, this one maybe coming from above, is that Keylor Navas, a key player during the Zidane era, is relegated by a goalkeeper that didn't deserve to play more than him since he arrived.

Ah, here we are . Look, i'm as maddened by that as anyone, but it's done. Nothing we can do about it anymore. Courtois and Keylor are both top goalkeepers, whoever plays makes no difference

I remeber a couple of years ago i said on here that Madrid are going to find it nigh on impossible to replace this group of players and some Madrid fan was adamant that it would be like taking candy from a baby. Now Madrid are in a world of trouble cause the squad is old and frail and there's limited quality on the market. Still cant believe they werent in for Griezmann.

Of course it's not impossible. It just takes time, naturally

As to griezmann, we don't sign players from atletico. Plus he's a right twat. We might break the agreement with our peasant cousins for joao felix though

 

[nore1975]

Zidane and Real is an interesting story. He took over from Rafa back in 2016 and masterminded three successive ECF victories. The squad was allowed to get weaker with successive seasons. He after his last ECF victory, I think, accurately concluded that their was a hell of a rebuilding job on his hands. Stands down. Perez entices him back at the tail end of last season.
The big change between his two stints has been the loss of Ronaldo. I can understand Real taking 100m for a 33 year old. However his goals were not replaced. Too early to make judgments calls on his signings but still relying on Modric, Benzema and Ramos as the spine of his side. From his last stint in charge Courtois has replaced Navas in goal. I don't understand his obsession with Pogba. Class player on his day but not a consistent performer. Not sure Barcelona getting Neymar makes his position any worse unless the Brazilian rediscovers his form. His dislike of Bale is curious. He is a wonderful player and still only 30.
This is Zidane's first attempt at rebuilding a side. Interesting to see how it goes.

 

[Erics_Collar]

I know they're riddled with injuries, but doesn't look like Zidane will have a dominant CL campaign to distract from domestic failures this time.

0 shots on target tonight.

 

[Harry190]

He made a mistake going back.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

I'ci c'est sacked.

 

[cyberman]

Ridiculous that posters were quick to hail their transfer business as what proper top clubs do.
Its still a stale side.

 

[Casanova85]

"REAL MADRID NEEDS TO GET READY FOR A TERRIBLE SEASON, Part Deux".

 

[Hulksmash]

Sacked in the morning

 

[Zoo]

Get on the phone Jose

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Ridiculous that posters were quick to hail their transfer business as what proper top clubs do.
Its still a stale side.

I remember West Ham winning the transfer window a couple of years back...

Trophies are won at the end of the season, not before a ball is kicked.

Jose is waiting for the call.

 

[shahzy]

Ridiculous that posters were quick to hail their transfer business as what proper top clubs do.
Its still a stale side.

Maybe it needs to be more nuanced. The intent is what proper top clubs do when they have a shit season. The execution seemingly wasn't as good

 

[clarkydaz]

Get Pogba and Jose on the phone/fax

 

[Casanova85]

Pogba and Mou to Madrid in Jan.

Dybala to Utd in Jan.

 

[Bubz27]

Pogba and Mou to Madrid in Jan.

Dybala to Utd in Jan.

Yeah I'm sure Pogba's dying to play for Jose again.

 

[youngrell]

Asking for trouble fielding Bale, Hazard, James and Benzema in the same lineup. 4 players who really like to stay forward with no defensive responsibility. And away from home.

 

[Casanova85]

Yeah I'm sure Pogba's dying to play for Jose again.

And for some reason I'm sure that's Floren plan.

 

[ValenciasDrilledCrosses]

Jose in

 

[Mb194dc]

Squad is very good imo.

Zidane doesn't have answers though tactically. So unbalanced and poor defensively, 9 goals conceded in 5 games this season total, not even played any big teams in league yet.

Don't see him lasting past Christmas, unless finds answers, could be gone even quicker?

If a new manager goes in and rebuilds things tactically could be a very good team.

 

[Leftback99]

Do people still think he could come here and have us challenging?

 

[McGrathsipan]

They've Seville and Athletico over the next 3 games.
.
Hes gone if they lose both of those

 

[Focusmate]

Seems inevitable that Zidane will be gone and Mourinho back in the hot seat by next summer.

Would love to know Pogba’s thoughts!!
Hazard knew the score with Mourinho and Perez being so close, suddenly declaring he would love to play for Jose again last year. (As if).

Perez not bothering with anything other than a derisory offer for Pogba says it all. No confidence in Zidane for the long term.

 

[ArjenIsM3]

Do people still think he could come here and have us challenging?

Hilarious isn't it. For the majority on here it was either him or Poch. Both aren't doing great in their respective jobs atm.

 

[El Zoido]

He’s a complete fraud, it was clear the first time around. I was amazed he went back, thought he’d played a blinder by leaving when he did. Bet Ronaldo is loving it though.

 

[youmeletsfly]

Asking for trouble fielding Bale, Hazard, James and Benzema in the same lineup. 4 players who really like to stay forward with no defensive responsibility. And away from home.

Asking for trouble playing slow players in midfield.
They have no box to box, no aggressive player, no lineup for high press, hell, they don't press at all.

Zidane needs to mask this with possesion and with overcrowding in the middle of the park, otherwise he'll be off pretty soon.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

He’s a complete fraud, it was clear the first time around. I was amazed he went back, thought he’d played a blinder by leaving when he did. Bet Ronaldo is loving it though.

Complete frauds don't win 3 straight Champions League titles.

Though he shouldn't have gone back.

 

[carvajal]

He and the club go in different directions.
He didn't want Courtois, James, or Bale, and at the end he has to build his project with them.
James, for example, can contribute in many things but not in an intense and dinamic style of play.
His stubborness didn't help.
This starts to stink of Mourinho.

 

[kouroux]

Asking for trouble fielding Bale, Hazard, James and Benzema in the same lineup. 4 players who really like to stay forward with no defensive responsibility. And away from home.

James wasn't playing nor staying forward at all

 

[SteveJ]

The Curse of the Turn-ups continues...