Not really we got all the bad things associated with Jose except this time none of the good things
Jose Mourinho joins Sky Sports
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Not really we got all the bad things associated with Jose except this time none of the good things
NO. That's such an exculpatory statement we need to stop. Ed Woodward took a brilliant yet volatile manager and did all of the exact things that set him off in order. Did he expect a different result than what we saw at Chelsea or Madrid? It's madness to think the outcome would be different. Indeed Ed is a mad clown wrecking us. If we let the manager do his thing, sacked Ed instead, we would be challenging for all trophies.
Always the victim.
Terrific excuse making for Jose. Brilliant in the past but mediocre for us.
Would have been lot easier to back the manager if he was giving his best but among the team of players with attitude problems he stood like leader of cnuts. Don't think any player had worse attitude than Jose.
He really did a number on you he did. Your dislike for him has become irrational it's unhealthy my friend.
He's sacked, get over it.
Odd response.
Ironic.
I find it hard to not be more impressed with the Europa League, League Cup and second place finish. I expect more of Manchester United but it's become apparent that was achieved despite the handicap of a board that is completely inept so much so they make things worse. Jose's got his faults but for anyone thinking we could bring him in and prod him with a hot stick is kidding themselves. If that was the expectation the guy who hired him expecting a puppet is a fool. And so again, the blame lays squarely on one man. Ed Woodward
Actually for the 2 summers he got everything he asked for bar Peresic (and even then he got Sanchez in January after complaining when he thought City would land him). This is just excuse making, the board failed him after the season he came second not before.
The blame never lays on one man. That's just silly.
All three managers and Ed Woodward simply weernt good enough. Mourinho should grow up instead of being a little bitch. Prodded
He was an employee of Manchester United not it's owner. And he utlimately just like his boss wasn't good enough. But no, let's blame one individual and absolve Mourinho the precious.
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How can both statements be true?
Its not simply about transfers made though. It's about player power, scouting and managing the team. If you read between the lines from what every manager has said, Ed has been micromanaging and meddling in ways that are impossible to work under.
Very cute. Don't think we will ever agree on this. I'll never accept the mentality of a yes-man follower, "employees must obey the rules" as anything but for the feeble minded.The blame never lays on one man. That's just silly.
All three managers and Ed Woodward simply weernt good enough. Mourinho should grow up instead of being a little bitch. Prodded
Very pretend internet hard man esque. Yeah I don't accept the mentality of a manager who pokes others in the eye either. Being honest is good. But doing your job well is more important. Both Jose and Pochettino didn't get their signings last summer (after Jose flushing over 300 million down the toilet). One did his job well and satisfied his fans that zeason. The other did the super manly thing of being honest (more like had a childish cry every 5 minutes), and got chucked out like he deserved. Guess it depends on what you value. I'd have valued meeting objectives and not having a woeful season.
You think we would've been challenging for the CL and the PL last season, if we got Mourinho Maguire?
What are you smoking?
Forget reading between the lines. What concrete things happened in Jose first 2 seasons?
I cant think of any. He had it all his way until the third summer. Its very likely that the CL exit to Sevilla is what changed things
Do not forget that Jose wanted Pogba at United (and Chelsea before that)
Jose is really smart with how he has changed the narrative into "I was a good coach, just never backed with players".
He was a constant failure. Failed with every transfer. Failed with every player. I mean do you blame woodward for not going for Maguire when Jose asked him?
He had his chance. Got in likes of Bailey when more was needed.
He was a constant failure. Failed with every transfer. Failed with every player. I mean do you blame woodward for not going for Maguire when Jose asked him?
He had his chance. Got in likes of Bailey when more was needed.
He even went on to criticise Lindelof in the air and not a complement to DDG in goal when he signed the player
Yeah.
So he signs Fred, Sanchez, Lindelof, Bailey, Matic and Lukaku to use his money and then complains about not being backed
The worst part is people actually buy this. People talk about how Ole isn't being backed and it's the same thing. This is Ole's first season. Mou had wasted millions before all of this. Not to mention he wasn't a fan of Pogba either who he had spent millions on as well.
He's just very smart and cunning. Unlike Moyes who has given up on a top job and LVG who is retired, Mou still has a shot at the big clubs so he's working hard to change the narrative. This whole sky sports gig I believe is a part of it to slowly show people how he wasn't backed.
Internet hard man? For saying I don't subscribe to your view of authority and an employee-employer relationship? Yeah, okay..very mature..
Moving on, the Pochettino comparison just doesn't stand here. Because like i said, Poch doesn't have a history of being insufferable when there is misalignment. Jose does. You can't jump in a pool and complain that you're wet. We hired Jose. And then we gave him a six year contract. I thought it was a case of devil you know rather than angel you don't. But instead it's incompetence from the one who manages Jose.
One man. Whose decisions trickle down. And affect the whole club. Before the manager and including him.
I don't want to confuse supporting Jose with excusing his individual mistakes. Jose is accountable for things like the Sevilla exit. Setting the team up to play the way it did on that occasion and others.
But I also don't think we can put fire to his feet for signing players that fell out with him. It happens. They'd never worked together before. It's happened to even Sir Alex. By the time Heinze and Tevez left there was no good relationship. It wasnt exactly handled perfectly then either. But I do note there was never a doubt that Ferguson was the bottom line. There were no rebellions when players were put in place by the manager. Here, Ed siding with the likes of Martial and Pogba shift the dynamic. It's meddling. And it is rotten.
That's my point. It's not that we got just the worst of Jose. It's that it was precipitated by the executive whose job is supposed to be to handle that situation better.
If we had a respectable DOF with footballing heritage, the fallout with Jose would not have happened in the same spectacular fashion. He would also likely have been able to improve some of the choices in transfers that Jose himself made which weren't raging successes. But for some investment banker numbnuts to be making those calls over Jose, that was never going to be a peaceful relationship once apparent.
Heck, Abramovich has admitted he overstepped his bounds in that owner-manager relationship with the team and players and has since been more hands off, lending to less frictions.
Not really, we got 2 trophies in 2 seasons and our highest PL finish since Fergie.
Yeah, the footy was dull, but to say we got 'none of the good things', when the 'good things' with Mourinho are trophies - is utterly ridiculous.
Jose was sacked because results were not good enough not because of player disputes.
What would have happened if we rode out Jose’s third season?
Total capitulation or reincarnation?
Total capitulation or reincarnation?
Good one, sometimes wonder that myself and tbh I really don’t know. What I do think is that (against popular opinion) he’ll be back winning major trophies.
Considering the bounce we had when we sacked him and the fact that if you just add up the points we won from then till seasons end we would have finished in the top 3 .
So with that in mind the way we were playing under Jose and how he was behaving had he stayed i can't see any way we would have finished in the top half and would have lost Martial,Shaw and Pogba among others
How do we ride out the season? We were almost in a free fall and it would have gotten only worse. There was no way Jose was going to survive the Xmas set of games. Besides Jose did everything to get sacked. He was begging for it week in week out.
Which two trophies?
Were United closer to 1st or 5th?
Can you add context? Asking for a friend.
Good post. You could add Henrikh Mkhitaryan too. He signed him and then later complained about his attitude when it's his duty to find the right characters for the club.Yeah.
So he signs Fred, Sanchez, Lindelof, Bailey, Matic and Lukaku to use his money and then complains about not being backed
People talk about how Ole isn't being backed and it's the same thing. This is Ole's first season. Mou had wasted millions before all of this. Not to mention he wasn't a fan of Pogba either who he had spent millions on as well.
He's just very smart and cunning. Unlike Moyes who has given up on a top job and LVG who is retired, Mou still has a shot at the big clubs so he's working hard to change the narrative. This whole sky sports gig I believe is a part of it to slowly show people how he wasn't backed.
That's much too simple and clearly was not the case. But let's say we do just consider results and look at Jose's last six games in the premier league with us and then Ole's first six as permanent manager:
Jose
P 6: W 1 : D 3 : L 2
Ole
P 6: W 2 : D 2 : L 2
If it's purely results, I expect Ole is on thin ice. If we don't beat Arsenal, then their seven game comparison is equal if not worse for Ole.
But he won't be sacked. Because he's a good boy that won't speak out against Woodward. And he's a legend that the players love. Well, all but Matic and Lukaku and Sanchez so we know how that will end for him.
Results over a long period.
Also if the results for Ole do not turn around by Jan/Feb yes I expect he will lose his job
How is signing those players a "waste" and Jose's tenure a "failure"? Have you seen the squad when Jose took over? Do you remember all the deadwood that he got rid of to bring Fred, Sanchez, Matic, Ibrahimovic and Lukaku? If these players are no good, then what would you call the ones he inherited?Yeah.
So he signs Fred, Sanchez, Lindelof, Bailey, Matic and Lukaku to use his money and then complains about not being backed
People talk about how Ole isn't being backed and it's the same thing. This is Ole's first season. Mou had wasted millions before all of this. Not to mention he wasn't a fan of Pogba either who he had spent millions on as well.
He's just very smart and cunning. Unlike Moyes who has given up on a top job and LVG who is retired, Mou still has a shot at the big clubs so he's working hard to change the narrative. This whole sky sports gig I believe is a part of it to slowly show people how he wasn't backed.
And when was the last time you played Champions League before he put you back in it, two years in a row, into the second round? What was your highest league position since Fergie left? What was your highest point total?
How many years did it take Klopp to win a trophy at Liverpool, and how much money did he spend?
People just love to talk out of their ass.
just out of interest, why do you think Jose got sacked
I think it was a combination of making life difficult for Woodward/the board and player power
You don’t get a bounce like Ole did then fall back to the “standard” without some involvement from the players. It was clear he wanted rid of both Pogba, Martial and possibly Shaw.
I wonder who we would have signed this summer under Jose. I still think Maguire & AWB, certainly not James though. Tierney to replace Shaw, a midfielder too
So nothing to do with our performances ?
He wanted to revert to his veteran signings. That was another major issue of disagreement. He wanted Willian, Perisic, Alderweireld, Boateng type players. When a manager and club have a canyon wide ideological difference the relationship has to end
I think that was the cocktail behind the scenes that translated onto the pitch. When we finished second 19 points behind city we sent £10million more than them in the transfer window. That’s not going to close the gap. Liverpool spent 177m. It was a strange decision by the board to hand him a contract then not back him. The Pogba saga undermined his authority too, but he wasn’t innocent either...
I think Jose can only work in an environment with full autonomy - hence him taking the likes of Porto and Inter to glory. He wasn’t a perfect fit for united but we aren’t any better off with him gone. I think our current board and modern fans would have sacked Sir Alex in 1990. Mourinho isn’t the manager he once was, you can see his cheeky personality is gone, but we had the best results with him. It’s a shame he never came after the great man retired.
In the end I think it’s all moot, I don’t think any manager can thrive under our current board and club structure
Ehm, joking? League cup and Europa League.
100% that’s the direction he was going to go. He values winning above all else and probably saw it as the only way to beat city. I can’t imagine Jose starting any season with “I’ll take 4th”
He wasn’t a good fit for United, but he got the best results so far
Thread title needs updating. 'Jose at United: revisionism'