A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

[Amadaeus]

We’re closer to Everton than our other rivals because nobody wants to play under miserable Poch and his tactics and selection are currently, fecking shite.

You asked for a changed in the diamond and that didn’t work today. He should have stuck to the diamond. They played better in terms of creating chancing with it as seen against Bayern. Anyway, if you think your next manager will do better than what Poch has done with Spurs with limited resources, then I can’t wait to see that happen. I can guarantee that Spurs will not see another champions league final anytime soon or win the title. Might get a lucky league cup, but I am not sure. I don’t know if top players will want to come to Spurs without a top manager. The main reason you got lo Celso and n’Dombele was because of Poch. Even with Poch, it was hard for you to get Coutinho, or Dybala who would have been a fantastic additions.

You sure about that?

Yes. I can’t believe some fans still thinks our board has not backed our manager. We have spent more than any other club beside maybe City post Sir Alex.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

You asked for a changed in the diamond and that didn’t work today. He should have stuck to the diamond. They played better in terms of creating chancing with it as seen against Bayern. Anyway, if you think your next manager will do better than what Poch has done with Spurs with limited resources, then I can’t wait to see that happen. I can guarantee that Spurs will not see another champions league final anytime soon or win the title. Might get a lucky league cup, but I am not sure. I don’t know if top players will want to come to Spurs without a top manager. The main reason you got lo Celso and n’Dombele was because of Poch. Even with Poch, it was hard for you to get Coutinho, or Dybala who would have been a fantastic additions.

We still played with zero width and for some reason Lucas can’t buy a game and Sissoko is now a right back.

Any new manager would do better than Poch is CURRENTLY managing. I don’t expect us to reach any CL final soon but certainly we’re so much better than he’s currently making us look with his silly decisions and obvious favouritism to certain players.

Doesn’t matter if we have Ndombele right now because Pochettino’s coaching is leading to us getting dicked by Brighton. We could have Patrick Viera in his prime at CM and would struggle with the current atmosphere at the club. Players don’t want to play for the man any longer.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Sounds like you want him gone?

Of course. Any sensible fan would now.

Manager loses the support of the dressing room and he has to go. Especially when said manager has previously made it clear he would be happy to leave the club.


Poch has lost the faith of the team and now we need to close the lid on his chapter as manager. Won’t be easy and I wish he would walk away, but I doubt that will happen.

 

[Lyng]

Klopp would have not done that in the premier league. I had this argument before and I made several key points towards how Bayern poor form contributed to Klopp accomplishments in that league. One point of many was how Dortmund went out in the group stage and all they had to do was fight for the league title, while Bayern was more focused on the champions league. I would be more impressed if Klopp did what he did with Dortmund with a club like Spurs in the premier league. Only example of this was leceister fairy tail season(or Pochettino champions league final run) and many believed that that season was a lucky one(moreover Poch champions league final).

You do realize what horrible state Dortmund was in right? He used the youngsters and build a world class team. With how Dortmund played those two winning seasons they could have won premier league as well.

Trying to pull Klopp’s achievements down just shows that you haven’t actually been following or even watching the Buli consistently.

Facts are: Klopp has won back to back Bundesliga titles and won the Champions League last season. Poch has won nothing.
Klopp and Pep are on a completely different level compared to Poch.

 

[Sp00ks11]

Stars are aligning..

 

[GDaly95]

I think Ole will be be gone at some point before the end of the season.

Poch I expect to leave at the end of the season. He might then even take a year out.

I'm not so sure the timelines do align.

 

[thegregster]

You do realize what horrible state Dortmund was in right? He used the youngsters and build a world class team. With how Dortmund played those two winning seasons they could have won premier league as well.

Trying to pull Klopp’s achievements down just shows that you haven’t actually been following or even watching the Buli consistently.

Facts are: Klopp has won back to back Bundesliga titles and won the Champions League last season. Poch has won nothing.
Klopp and Pep are on a completely different level compared to Poch.

Do you think any manager could win stuff at Spurs?

Why have managers like Klopp or Pep never bothered with Spurs?

 

[devlinadl]

Pochettino is a great manager, but have not gotten the money to spend like his rivals. Some will say that Spurs team is great already. But that is a myth. Pochettino made them look better than they are. As they are showcasing right now how their level is similar to that of Everton than it is the other rivals.

Poch has spent more than Klopp during Klopp’s time in England, so he has gotten the money to spend like his rivals. Much lower wage bill of course, but that is down to Levy.

 

[Amadaeus]

You do realize what horrible state Dortmund was in right? He used the youngsters and build a world class team. With how Dortmund played those two winning seasons they could have won premier league as well.

Trying to pull Klopp’s achievements down just shows that you haven’t actually been following or even watching the Buli consistently.

Facts are: Klopp has won back to back Bundesliga titles and won the Champions League last season. Poch has won nothing.
Klopp and Pep are on a completely different level compared to Poch.

I doubt it. No way that Dortmund team win the premier league. Poch would have won something if he was in an easier league. That argument is laughable and he has done exceptional well at Spurs. No other manager could have did what he has done beside maybe Klopp.

We still played with zero width and for some reason Lucas can’t buy a game and Sissoko is now a right back.

Any new manager would do better than Poch is CURRENTLY managing. I don’t expect us to reach any CL final soon but certainly we’re so much better than he’s currently making us look with his silly decisions and obvious favouritism to certain players.

Doesn’t matter if we have Ndombele right now because Pochettino’s coaching is leading to us getting dicked by Brighton. We could have Patrick Viera in his prime at CM and would struggle with the current atmosphere at the club. Players don’t want to play for the man any longer.

Yup that is a statement from Poch saying he is unhappy with the backing he is receiving from the club. I noticed that as well and Mourinho did the same thing at United. Played Mctominay at cb and other crazy decisions before he got sacked. Pochettino most likely is frustrated with the players at his disposal similar to the way Mourinho was at United.

Some manager could do better than Poch at the moment due to lost of confidence and motivation, but not any manager can accomplish what Poch has done to Spurs in the time he has been there. Anyway, we can both agree that Poch should not stay at Spurs any longer. It is best for the club and him to part ways.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

‘Tottenham have lost 17 away games in all competitions in 2019 - more than any other top-flight side.’

Seriously .. and some on here still say Spurs fans are ‘knee jerking’ and act like we’re reacting to a short period of poor form.

The problems have been obvious for a while, they’ve just been more obvious than ever recently.

 

[Sandikan]

Stars are aligning..

It could be very interesting indeed if Spurs' run continues and they get rid.

It all depends on the truth of whether we really were targeting Poch, and how much this last terrible run, including last year in the league, affects their view.

 

[Sandikan]

Poch has spent more than Klopp during Klopp’s time in England, so he has gotten the money to spend like his rivals. Much lower wage bill of course, but that is down to Levy.

Is this actually true?
Genuinely surprised if so.

 

[Sandikan]

‘Tottenham have lost 17 away games in all competitions in 2019 - more than any other top-flight side.’

Seriously .. and some on here still say Spurs fans are ‘knee jerking’ and act like we’re reacting to a short period of poor form.

The problems have been obvious for a while, they’ve just been more obvious than ever recently.

I think it's the way they're split across two seasons that has clouded it for some.

Similar in a way to OGS. When you take the bad run at the end of last year, and combine with this year's start, it's utterly relegation form.

 

[Leftback99]

It's funny reading on the Spurs forum how many want him out while on here so many are desperate to get him in.

 

[Halftrack]

Is this actually true?
Genuinely surprised if so.

There's like a £10m difference or something in gross spend between them, but Poch has three windows on Klopp. So Klopp's spent slightly more over fewer transfer windows.

 

[Ban]

Some of you arent aware Amadeus has Poch's shrine at home.

 

[JDoe]

Is this actually true?
Genuinely surprised if so.

Klopp slightly more gross spend since he arrived and slightly less net spend. Couldn't believe it either.

 

[Sandikan]

There's like a £10m difference or something in gross spend between them, but Poch has three windows on Klopp. So Klopp's spent slightly more over fewer transfer windows.

Klopp slightly more gross spend since he arrived and slightly less net spend. Couldn't believe it either.

The less of a time frame makes a huge difference to it in fairness.

 

[JDoe]

The less of a time frame makes a huge difference to it in fairness.

I was talking about spend per season, so not really.

 

[Eric7C]

Klopp slightly more gross spend since he arrived and slightly less net spend. Couldn't believe it either.

It's all skewed by Barca paying an emperor's ransom for Coutinho.

 

[Sandikan]

Of course. Any sensible fan would now.

Manager loses the support of the dressing room and he has to go. Especially when said manager has previously made it clear he would be happy to leave the club.


Poch has lost the faith of the team and now we need to close the lid on his chapter as manager. Won’t be easy and I wish he would walk away, but I doubt that will happen.

It's funny how quickly fortunes change though isn't it.

It wasn't that long ago Spurs fans said he'd never move to us, as Spurs is where it's all at these days.

 

[Sandikan]

I was talking about spend per season, so not really.

Well yes, when you factor in that Coutinho fee, all bets are off!

 

[Stacks]

It's all skewed by Barca paying an emperor's ransom for Coutinho.

But that means they had to lose a top player from their squad. They lose an asset

 

[Eric7C]

But that means they had to lose a top player from their squad. They lose an asset

Might just be hindsight, but they are better off without him anyway, I think. Doesn't suit Klopp's system.

 

[JDoe]

It's all skewed by Barca paying an emperor's ransom for Coutinho.

Not sure about that tbh. Even if they sold Coutinho for 100m (which he was easily worth it at the time), that'd have bumped their net spend to 20-30m instead of the current 10-20m per season. You'd have to notice they bought VVD and Ox for far more than their market prices at the time too.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Lets hope that conspiracy theory thread was right, as he could be available pretty soon at this rate, they're running us close for who is worse atm.

Having said that I highly doubt Spurs will pay buy him out of his new contract, as we would be to pay them off, so it could get ugly for them.

 

[PickledRed]

Timing his exit to replace Zidane

 

[Balu]

Klopp would have not done that in the premier league. I had this argument before and I made several key points towards how Bayern poor form contributed to Klopp accomplishments in that league. One point of many was how Dortmund went out in the group stage and all they had to do was fight for the league title, while Bayern was more focused on the champions league. I would be more impressed if Klopp did what he did with Dortmund with a club like Spurs in the premier league. Only example of this was leceister fairy tail season(or Pochettino champions league final run) and many believed that that season was a lucky one(moreover Poch champions league final).

Dortmund's Bundesliga points starting with 2 years before Klopp took over and then looking at his first 5 seasons at the club, then the same for Poch at Tottenham:
06/07: 44 (9. place)
07/08: 40 (13.)
Klopp takes over
09/10: 59 (6.)
10/11: 57 (5.)
11/12: 75 (1.)
12/13: 81 (1.)
13/14: 66 (2.)

Klopp won two league titles and 1 cup against a Bayern side that went to 3 CL finals in 4 years during that time. He took over a club, that actually fought against relegation and was struggling heavily with debt and had way more limited ressources compared to Tottenham under Poch. He actually doubled their points from the season before he took over to their 2nd title winning year, when he set a new Bundesliga record for most points in a season.

You really want to compare that with:
12/13: 72 (5.)
13/14: 69 (6.)
Poch takes over
14/15: 64 (5.)
15/16: 70 (3.)
16/17: 86 (2.)
17/18: 77 (3.)
18/19: 71 (4.)

In 3 of those 5 seasons, Poch couldn't actually reach a points total that was above what Villas-Boas reached in 12/13. He also benefited from United's decline after Ferguson left along with Arsenal's fall during Wenger's last years. Tottenham played one rather great league season, in which they still weren't good enough to be in the title fight against a very good but far from truely great Chelsea side.

Even if you believe your mighty Premier League fantasy where even when Leicester wins the title, it's much harder than beating Heynckes' Bayern side to a league title, you simply can't deny the massive improvements in points Klopp achieved consistently over 5 years. Simeone's spell at Atletico is comparable to Klopp's spell at Dortmund, arguably even more impressive. Poch on the other hand had one great league season, that still wasn't good enough for a title challenge and one great run in the CL. He's more or less still an inconsistent manager talent, who showed glimpses of greatness and deserves a shot at a bigger club (I'd happily take him at Bayern right now). But he's nowhere near Klopp's or Simeone's level unless he has proven that he can actually overcome great sides. Poch's Tottenham also - despite the great CL run and the amazing comeback against Ajax last year - lacks performances on the big stage like Dortmund's 4-1 win against Real in the CL semifinal or the 5-2 smashing against Bayern in the cup final. Performances that show, that his team actually outplayed and dominated stronger teams, when the pressure is high.

 

[Eric7C]

Not sure about that tbh. Even if they sold Coutinho for 100m (which he was easily worth it at the time), that'd have bumped their net spend to 20-30m instead of the current 10-20m per season. You'd have to notice they bought VVD and Ox for far more than their market prices at the time too.

True but the point is that Spurs would never spend 75m on a defender ever. Liverpool were able to because of the Coutinho money.

 

[Stacks]

Might just be hindsight, but they are better off without him anyway, I think. Doesn't suit Klopp's system.

So their squad is better without his goals and assists?

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

At the end of the day, they have one of the world's best forwards in Kane. Is he going through a rough patch as well, or is he not good enough to single handedly drag Spurs out of the mud?

 

[Andycoleno9]

Timing his exit to replace Zidane

...or Valverde or Kovač

 

[Eric7C]

So their squad is better without his goals and assists?

Yes, he would never be just a squad player. He would demand to start but for their preferred 11, they don't need him. Fermino may not have the same stats, but he makes them tick much better.

They are European champions. They had 97 points last season. They've won all 8 league games this season.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Well, I rate Rose, and Robertson is nowhere near world class.

And rose is near world class?

 

[Amadaeus]

Poch has spent more than Klopp during Klopp’s time in England, so he has gotten the money to spend like his rivals. Much lower wage bill of course, but that is down to Levy.

not even close.

Spoiler

Dortmund's Bundesliga points starting with 2 years before Klopp took over and then looking at his first 5 seasons at the club, then the same for Poch at Tottenham:
06/07: 44 (9. place)
07/08: 40 (13.)
Klopp takes over
09/10: 59 (6.)
10/11: 57 (5.)
11/12: 75 (1.)
12/13: 81 (1.)
13/14: 66 (2.)

Klopp won two league titles and 1 cup against a Bayern side that went to 3 CL finals in 4 years during that time. He took over a club, that actually fought against relegation and was struggling heavily with debt and had way more limited ressources compared to Tottenham under Poch. He actually doubled their points from the season before he took over to their 2nd title winning year, when he set a new Bundesliga record for most points in a season.

You really want to compare that with:
12/13: 72 (5.)
13/14: 69 (6.)
Poch takes over
14/15: 64 (5.)
15/16: 70 (3.)
16/17: 86 (2.)
17/18: 77 (3.)
18/19: 71 (4.)

In 3 of those 5 seasons, Poch couldn't actually reach a points total that was above what Villas-Boas reached in 12/13. He also benefited from United's decline after Ferguson left along with Arsenal's fall during Wenger's last years. Tottenham played one rather great league season, in which they still weren't good enough to be in the title fight against a very good but far from truely great Chelsea side.

Even if you believe your mighty Premier League fantasy where even when Leicester wins the title, it's much harder than beating Heynckes' Bayern side to a league title, you simply can't deny the massive improvements in points Klopp achieved consistently over 5 years. Simeone's spell at Atletico is comparable to Klopp's spell at Dortmund, arguably even more impressive. Poch on the other hand had one great league season, that still wasn't good enough for a title challenge and one great run in the CL. He's more or less still an inconsistent manager talent, who showed glimpses of greatness and deserves a shot at a bigger club (I'd happily take him at Bayern right now). But he's nowhere near Klopp's or Simeone's level unless he has proven that he can actually overcome great sides. Poch's Tottenham also - despite the great CL run and the amazing comeback against Ajax last year - lacks performances on the big stage like Dortmund's 4-1 win against Real in the CL semifinal or the 5-2 smashing against Bayern in the cup final. Performances that show, that his team actually outplayed and dominated stronger teams, when the pressure is high.

Bundesliga is a relatively easier league than the premier league. Believing other wise is simply ridiculous. You data does not account for that and the only way we can truly know if Klopp can emulate the success he had with Dortmund is by taking over a mid table team like Spurs, Leceister, Everton, etc., and winning the league with them. At the moment, only Poch has done that with success(not win the league despite what xg had them as the league winner in 16/17. Rodger looks like he can do that with leceister, but only time will tell on that. Saying that Poch team has not dominated a big team on the big stage is not correct. I m not a Spurs fan, but I recalled Spurs thrashing Liverpool 4-1, Chelsea 5-3, City, 4-1 and recently tactically outperforming top of the bundesliga Dortmund 3-1. There are other instances, but I don’t keep record since I m not a Spurs fan.

 

[SungSam7]

Do you think any manager could win stuff at Spurs?

Why have managers like Klopp or Pep never bothered with Spurs?

Well without throwing a dig at Spurs, but they haven't had a rich vein of history and also don't offer a lot in terms of financial power with Daniel Levy in charge. Klopp would have chosen Liverpool every time that is for sure, id bet everything I have on it.

 

[T00lsh3d]

Of course. Any sensible fan would now.

Manager loses the support of the dressing room and he has to go. Especially when said manager has previously made it clear he would be happy to leave the club.


Poch has lost the faith of the team and now we need to close the lid on his chapter as manager. Won’t be easy and I wish he would walk away, but I doubt that will happen.

It’s a damming indictment on most of those players. Poch has made most of those players the players they are. If it’s the end of an era, which it looks like it is, they should get off their arses and play for the man until it’s over.

 

[balaks]

It’s a damming indictment on most of those players. Poch has made most of those players the players they are. If it’s the end of an era, which it looks like it is, they should get off their arses and play for the man until it’s over.

Agreed

 

[dwd]

It's funny reading on the Spurs forum how many want him out while on here so many are desperate to get him in.

Shows how far we have fallen.

 

[Greck]

Shows how far we have fallen.

I hear many of them want Mourinho. So we both want each other's sloppy seconds