Man City: Are they dirty?

[caid]

And quite right he was offended. Check the OFFICIAL STATS for this season. City have committed 291 fouls, the lowest in the premiership, Liverpool 303 - Man Utd 395,, with only Everton & Brighton higher. Precious, no, just factual

City have the most fouls to time out of possession.

1) Manchester City – 0.299 fouls per minute out of possession
Fouls conceded (rank in PL): 291 (20th)
Possession conceded (%): 31.79
Possession conceded (mins): 973

2) Arsenal – 0.296
Fouls conceded (rank in PL): 378 (9th)
Possession conceded (%): 41.74
Possession conceded (mins): 1277

3) Manchester United – 0.283
Fouls conceded (rank in PL): 395 (=5th)
Possession conceded (%): 45.61
Possession conceded (mins): 1396

4). Tottenham – 0.277
Fouls conceded (rank in PL): 351 (12th)
Possession conceded (%): 40.2
Possession conceded (mins): 1266

5) Chelsea – 0.275
Fouls conceded (rank in PL): 311 (=18th)
Possession conceded (%): 35.83
Possession conceded (mins): 1129

6) Everton – 0.255
Fouls conceded (rank in PL): 396 (3rd)
Possession conceded (%): 49.29
Possession conceded (mins): 1553

7) Liverpool – 0.252
Fouls conceded (rank in PL): 303 (19th)
Possession conceded (%): 38.17
Possession conceded (mins): 1202

=8) Huddersfield – 0.236
Fouls conceded (rank in PL): 390 (8th)
Possession conceded (%): 52.53
Possession conceded (mins): 1655

=8) Watford – 0.236
Fouls conceded (rank in PL): 401 (2nd)
Possession conceded (%): 53.91
Possession conceded (mins): 1698

10) Brighton – 0.235
Fouls conceded (rank in PL): 430 (1st)
Possession conceded (%): 57.97
Possession conceded (mins): 1826

11) Fulham – 0.234
Fouls conceded (rank in PL): 392 (7th)
Possession conceded (%): 53.09
Possession conceded (mins): 1672

12) Wolves – 0.226
Fouls conceded (rank in PL): 365 (10th)
Possession conceded (%): 52.79
Possession conceded (mins): 1615

13) Southampton – 0.218
Fouls conceded (rank in PL): 393 (6th)
Possession conceded (%): 57.32
Possession conceded (mins): 1806

14) Leicester – 0.209
Fouls conceded (rank in PL): 324 (15th)
Possession conceded (%): 49.23
Possession conceded (mins): 1551

15) Newcastle – 0.207
Fouls conceded (rank in PL): 395 (=5th)
Possession conceded (%): 60.43
Possession conceded (mins): 1904

16) Crystal Palace – 0.202
Fouls conceded (rank in PL): 355 (11th)
Possession conceded (%): 55.91
Possession conceded (mins): 1761

17) West Ham – 0.190
Fouls conceded (rank in PL): 311 (=18th)
Possession conceded (%): 52.08
Possession conceded (mins): 1641

18) Bournemouth – 0.182
Fouls conceded (rank in PL): 312 (16th)
Possession conceded (%): 54.53
Possession conceded (mins): 1718

19) Burnley – 0.178
Fouls conceded (rank in PL): 335 (14th)
Possession conceded (%): 59.63
Possession conceded (mins): 1878

20) Cardiff – 0.167
Fouls conceded (rank in PL): 346 (13th)
Possession conceded (%): 65.8
Possession conceded (mins): 2073

 

[Samid]

New season, same old City getting away with a million tactical fouls.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

I dunno about dirty but my God they're boring.

 

[VorZakone]

About time these fecking refs give them yellows.

 

[Stadjer]

I guess they are mostly smart fouls. They arent dirty and not causing any injuries but they prevent the opponent from getting near the goal.

As long as referees wont punish it they will just keep doing it since it is better to get a foul against than a goal against.

Currently City is leading with 1-0 in goals but 8-1 in fouls.

 

[Dumbstar]

New season, same old City getting away with a million tactical fouls.

Is David Silva the dirtiest player in PL history?

 

[Mrs Smoker]

Very dirty.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

No, Spurs are dirty. City are more smart than dirty. They make tactical fouls to stop counter attacks.

One thing they are is incredibly boring though. They are just us under LVG but with end product and a high press.

 

[arthurka]

They foul everytime they loose the ball and the other team start to counter, really strange that the refs fall for it season after season.

 

[Amar__]

Their player literally assaulted West Ham's player just before they pass the ball to Starling for their last goal, it was yellow card all day long, and hardly anyone even complained.

 

[Amar__]

Shit quality but you can see it clearly on 10th second. ffs

Edit: video taken down, I've replaced it now.

 

[AJ10]

Commit tactical fouls all over the pitch and get nothing, 1 similar foul against them.....straight yellow, not the first time this will happen.

 

[Fully Fledged]

Yes. They use tactical fouls to breakdown opponents play while avoiding cards. How is tactical fouling and less cheating than diving is?

 

[arnie_ni]

A totting up process for the team needs implemented to stop this. They rotate.. rodri sterling jesus silva de bruyne and back again.

 

[Ace of Spades]

Their player literally assaulted West Ham's player just before they pass the ball to Starling for their last goal, it was yellow card all day long, and hardly anyone even complained.

Same, very bizzare that VAR did not pick it, or is it not a part of it. Pathetic from the ref either way, clear yellow. How do you fail to see it when it is happening right before your eyes FFS ??

 

[Jack - City Fan]

Definitely dirty in that we make deliberate fouls to break up the play.

Less dirty in terms of bitchy intent to injure fouls that you see from people like Dele Alli.

 

[witchtrials]

Yes. They use tactical fouls to breakdown opponents play while avoiding cards. How is tactical fouling and less cheating than diving is?

Yep - if there are new innovations is using fouls to gain an advantage then the rules and their implementation need to catch up.

 

[Crustanoid]

Their player literally assaulted West Ham's player just before they pass the ball to Starling for their last goal, it was yellow card all day long, and hardly anyone even complained.

Was it Walker? I’ve seen him get away with numerous red card offences in the last year or so

 

[Scroto Baggins]

Constant tactical fouling, I wouldnt say dirty play, because that is something different. They just constantly foul on turnover in rotation, or whoever is close to the action. I'd like to see the stats breakdown of how many of those tactical fouls occur in the first half. I have a feeling they are a lot more aggressive about it in the first half because yellows dont seem to be handed out for niggling fouls before the break.

City had committed 8 fouls to Hammers 1 at half time, zero cards given out. The first two fouls Hammers committed after half time were rewarded with yellows.

 

[Guy Incognito]

Masters of the dark arts.

Cunning, if anything.

 

[Zoo]

 

[Samid]

City getting away with clear as day bookings shocker.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

City getting away with clear as day bookings shocker.

Referees never catch on

 

[B20]

Good piece by Early on how referees might actually be clamping down on this now, to city's detriment.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/so...al-collectivism-faces-sternest-test-1.4042037

 

[André Dominguez]

It will be a matter of time until football has a rule similar to futsal to penalize teams who commit more fouls. Now with the VAR access it can be implemented in a much more fair way.

 

[do.ob]

It will be a matter of time until football has a rule similar to futsal to penalize teams who commit more fouls. Now with the VAR access it can be implemented in a much more fair way.

What's the rule in futsal? And I don't think VAR enters into it. Tactical fouls are the easiest thing to spot anyway. It's not that referees don't realize these fouls happen it's that they either don't understand their tactical nature or are afraid what things might lead to if they card them properly.

 

[André Dominguez]

What's the rule in futsal? And I don't think VAR enters into it. Tactical fouls are the easiest thing to spot anyway. It's not that referees don't realize these fouls happen it's that they either don't understand their tactical nature or are afraid what things might lead to if they card them properly.

• A count is kept of fouls penalised with a direct free-kick or penalty kick in each time period. These offences are called “accumulated fouls”.
• When a team commits a sixth accumulated foul, the opposing team is awarded a direct free-kick without a wall on the second penalty mark, which is situated ten metres from goal and four metres behind the first penalty mark.

Of course this would need to be adapted to the different nature of football, but I think we will get there in order to make the sport more dynamic and with less stoppages.

The refs don't card them because rules are very specific about what's yellow and what's red. They can call them for making consecutive fouls, but there's really no standardization of it, each ref has a different limit.

 

[do.ob]

• A count is kept of fouls penalised with a direct free-kick or penalty kick in each time period. These offences are called “accumulated fouls”.
• When a team commits a sixth accumulated foul, the opposing team is awarded a direct free-kick without a wall on the second penalty mark, which is situated ten metres from goal and four metres behind the first penalty mark.

Of course this would need to be adapted to the different nature of football, but I think we will get there in order to make the sport more dynamic and with less stoppages.

The refs don't card them because rules are very specific about what's yellow and what's red. They can call them for making consecutive fouls, but there's really no standardization of it, each ref has a different limit.

I don't think this thread is about the kind of tactical fouling where red cards are considered. It's about quick little fouls right after possession turnover in order to stop counter attacks in their tracks. Afaik rules already demand a yellow card for such tactical offenses, but referees mostly only apply them when it's super super obvious, like shirt pulling an opponent who got past you - and even then, if you do it in your own half you might get away with it.
And I don't think the futsal concept would help in that regard, because it's about quality of fouls, not quantity. Tactical fouls are unsportsmanlike/cynical to the highest degree, but they aren't sufficiently punished by referees and you don't need a lot of them to hurt the game since every single one stops a promising counter attack.

 

[Marcelinho87]

I consider it dirty but not dangerous which I think a lot confuse the two.

It is not clean, sportsmanlike play so it is a dirty tactic so under my reckoning they are a dirty team.

 

[André Dominguez]

I don't think this thread is about the kind of tactical fouling where red cards are considered. It's about quick little fouls right after possession turnover in order to stop counter attacks in their tracks. Afaik rules already demand a yellow card for such tactical offenses, but referees mostly only apply them when it's super super obvious, like shirt pulling an opponent who got past you.
And I don't think the futsal concept would help in that regard, because it's about quality of fouls, not quantity. Tactical fouls are unsportsmanlike/cynical to the highest degree, but they aren't sufficiently covered by the rules and you don't need dozens of them, every single one stops a promising counter attack.

I do think it would help. teams would have to strategically pick when to foul the opponents, because after a foul limit they would be "offering" a clear goal chance. They would think wisely about fouling.

Imagine: 10th foul, team gets awarded a 20.15 meters foul without wall. I would say the hit rate of a top team would be something about 40% due to the shooting quality they have available on their ranks.

 

[do.ob]

I do think it would help. teams would have to strategically pick when to foul the opponents, because after a foul limit they would be "offering" a clear goal chance. They would think wisely about fouling.

Imagine: 10th foul, team gets awarded a 20.15 meters foul without wall. I would say the hit rate of a top team would be something about 40% due to the shooting quality they have available on their ranks.

I'm not saying that this isnt an interesting proposal, but it punishes quantity of fouls, whereas the problem discussed in this thread is that teams like City commit only a few fouls, but those are highly effective and not sufficiently pubished. The Futsal approach would probably help City.

 

[The Cat]

Their money is dirty.

 

[Number4.]

At the start of the season, when the referee's where being touted around the media with "This season's changes" one of the points referenced was cynically fouling would be an automatic yellow card.

Cue City's first game at home against Spurs. Spurs break, city stand off slightly, spurs score there first. About 3 mins later one of their players picks up a Yellow for a cynical pull back - given by Michael Oliver I think

It's a small incident, but it's had significant ramifications for City, the 1st wolves goal is avoided by a Cynical Foul, but there was none forthcoming, possibly because Fernandinho was a CB and he would be the obvious fouler, but possibly a change in tactic. If so - it's very significant, given how exposed City are to a turnover.

Have they lost a superpower?

 

[Andrew Wolf]

At the start of the season, when the referee's where being touted around the media with "This season's changes" one of the points referenced was cynically fouling would be an automatic yellow card.

Cue City's first game at home against Spurs. Spurs break, city stand off slightly, spurs score there first. About 3 mins later one of their players picks up a Yellow for a cynical pull back - given by Michael Oliver I think

It's a small incident, but it's had significant ramifications for City, the 1st wolves goal is avoided by a Cynical Foul, but there was none forthcoming, possibly because Fernandinho was a CB and he would be the obvious fouler, but possibly a change in tactic. If so - it's very significant, given how exposed City are to a turnover.

Have they lost a superpower?

Yes. He's called Aymeric Laporté

 

[ExecutionerWasp001]

At the start of the season, when the referee's where being touted around the media with "This season's changes" one of the points referenced was cynically fouling would be an automatic yellow card.

Cue City's first game at home against Spurs. Spurs break, city stand off slightly, spurs score there first. About 3 mins later one of their players picks up a Yellow for a cynical pull back - given by Michael Oliver I think

It's a small incident, but it's had significant ramifications for City, the 1st wolves goal is avoided by a Cynical Foul, but there was none forthcoming, possibly because Fernandinho was a CB and he would be the obvious fouler, but possibly a change in tactic. If so - it's very significant, given how exposed City are to a turnover.

Have they lost a superpower?

Those Wolves breakaway's don't happen with Fernandinho in MF. He is an absolute master at shithousery & escaping punishment. He's an extremely important part of the game plan against decent sides. Playing him at CB means you lose the protection in MF. You then have players running at him at CB & he doesn't know what to do. His obvious reaction would be to foul. He can't do it though as he will give away a dangerous free kick or penalty.

 

[Number4.]

Yes. He's called Aymeric Laporté

I think the issue is more likely that they have lost Fernandinho to CB as a result.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Let them be dirty until Klopp leaves ffs.

 

[Andrew Wolf]

I think the issue is more likely that they have lost Fernandinho to CB as a result.

Partially. The team is way more open this season. It's struggling to adapt to Rodri who playes the game and engages in physical battles when pressing much more than what Fernandinho did, which then leaves gaps for others to run into.

It happened pre-Laporté's injury in the 4 games we played and it's still happening now.

We've lost all control of the game when we lose the ball.

 

[BobbyManc]

Good piece by Early on how referees might actually be clamping down on this now, to city's detriment.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/so...al-collectivism-faces-sternest-test-1.4042037

I mean as a City fan I can confidently say I've not noticed any difference in the refereeing towards us and neither have I seen us change our strategy. Bit of an odd point to make, really, given there's a lot to be talking about with our obvious problems right now. The only example it cites is Cancelo and Rodri's yellow cards. Now Rodri's yellow card was tactical but it was also incredibly blatant and impossible to not book him for; the same would have applied last season to any City player. Cancelo's yellow card was not for a tactical foul, it was because he caught his man after making a genuine attempt to intercept a pass, and although far softer than Rodri's you'd likely have expected him to be booked for it. So I'm really not sure where this idea has come from that (a) referees are approaching City any differently to last season (and naturally I'd love to find an "external" scapegoat for our season but this is not one) and (b) that City's approach to "tactical fouling" has subsided either.

 

[GhastlyHun]

Good piece by Early on how referees might actually be clamping down on this now, to city's detriment.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/so...al-collectivism-faces-sternest-test-1.4042037

Or maybe their defense is just stacked with second choice and out of position players right now, who are simply worse at defending and therefore more prone to fouling.