"A quagmire of mediocrity" - anonymous member of staff at United

Orange Tree

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We don't play as a team and rely too much on individuals to create. When those individuals are out, we have no freakin attacking threat, like, at all. No one has any idea how to attack.

I'd blame the manager and coaches first and foremost.
 

Sandikan

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The summer was such a bizarre window.

On one hand you're paying huge amounts for 2 very solid starters, but on the other hand, you're leaving massive gaping holes elsewhere.

How anyone could have thought, "that'll do", or "we'll fix the rest in a year" beggars belief.

You don't want any old players, but you need a certain depth, or what we're seeing happen happens!
 

Ekeke

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See I think he did, for that point in time. Whenever he was asked about Lukaku and Sanchez going in the summer the reply was that we were looking for players and would be replacing them. That suggests to me that either the players he wanted weren't available, or he was sold a lie by the higher ups who knew despite sales we would not be bringing anyone else in.

I honestly don't have a problem with anyone who has left in the last 10 months, what I have a problem with is the serious under investment and replacing said players.
I dont think Sanchez and Lukaku are why we're struggling. Lukaku had some spells where he was coming off the bench to get some goals sure, but he's not the reason that our players did well last season and arent performing the same way this season. Those goals off the bench were just a way to sneak some points.

I could easily see Sanchez and Lukaku being here now and going through a rough spell just like Rashford is. They've had that here. The only difference would be that if Rashford isnt playing well, maybe Lukaku would come in for a few games and do better. Maybe he wouldnt. We're seeing that with Greenwood.

Imo the reason why we're not as good in attack is because players are more restricted. Pogba is playing a deeper role not as an attacker and Mata is playing that role, very poorly.

Ander and Matic together (mainly Ander) allowed Pogba to play further up. If we now had Ander and McTominay then Pogba could continue getting so far forward. But we don't. We have Fred and Matic who are poor options and Pogba is playing a role where he's nowhere near as effective for us. And Mata/Lingard arent anywhere near as effective as Pogba was in attacking midfield

To add to that, our 2nd most creative player after Pogba was Martial. Even if he was fit and playing, he'd be up front rather than on the left making a few chances for teammates. Thats not to say that Martial is a great creative player, he's still best making chances for himself, but we lack the players who regularly make those chances for others and he was our 2nd best, now he plays further up the pitch and can be isolated as a striker and not see as much of the ball. James has done well with scoring some goals but he's not as creative.
 

ash_86

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What does class have to with saving your face when a crisis is happening? Anyway that's not the point. The point is what prevents him from being stupid enough to agree with a season like that? It's actually totally possible, nothing prevents it.
Because a season before it happened to Jose too. When we finished second in strong position Ed failed to back him too. Jose went vocal about it and Ole didn't. That's the only difference.
 

Bobcat

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True However would you handle 300m to someone who is suited for amateur football?
Imo, the key disagreement between the "Ole out" and "Ole in" camps are not whether we are shite or whether the results are awful, i think the key is what we need going forward. Some people dont trust Ole to rebuild the squad, which is perfectly understandable considering our current form, but in my opinion just a semblance of continuity right now is more important than hitting the reset button once again and hoping the next appointment will solve our plight, despite there being loads of evidence that this goes well beyond the manager

I am not saying we should stick with Ole just because of sentiment, but i am willing to stomach a poor season if it means we can reap the rewards 2-3 years from now. People like to discredit his transfers as "obvious", but even though none of them (except James maybe) were "hidden gems", i would much prefer these three over pretty much any other transfer we have done the last 5-6 years. He also trimmed some unnecessary fat from the squad, which we have payed the price for (re: Lukaku) on the pitch now, but i would much prefer unwanted players being cleared out fast and painful rather than it being dragged out over several seasons.

Also, i am pretty confident that Ole is a better manager than our current disastrous runs suggests. No doubt EPL is a huge step up from the Norwegian league, but i dont think you can win the league in any country really if you are utterly inept at coaching

So despite us being utterly dire right now, i still have some hope there are better times ahead if Ole is given the chance to fulfill his vision. The transfers in have been good (the best in a long time), the departures have been necessary, and him talking about "building a new culture" and having a British core (which we always had) seems sensible in my eyes
 

steffyr2

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I think if Ole had a spine in the team (which he has tried to add with his 3 signings) he can bed in young players, not totally rely on them. Rashford wasn't relied on as a main striker after others came back from injury.

Like I said, James is 22 and wasn't bought to be a starter..yet because Ole wasn't backed, James is now first on the team sheet.

To understand how badly run and having absolutely no intention of backing this rebuild.. think back to the summer when you, I and all other fans logged into the Maguire thread everyday and refreshed it all summer to see if the deal was done. The deal was completed the last week of the window. WHY? Leicester didn't change their stance all summer.

Reason why is cause there was no intention in getting a midfielder this window. No intention of replacing Lukaku, Herrera, Sanchez...

Yes Ole said there is good youngsters but he never wanted to completely rely on unproven kids simple because we bought James, Maguire and AWB. If us as fans can see that would never work why would you think Ole would think that...you really think he's that stupid?

I'm sorry if you feel offended as a fan. I also feel offended that our fan base refuse to see the problems at the club.

I will hold Ole's team accountable for the injury list. There has to be an issue there. But expecting Ole to get kids to perform with no spine to the team is asking for a miracle.

Like I said, we all saw the plan during the preseason Asia tour...Lukaku and Sanchez were not involved but the plan wasn't to have players like Greenwood, Chong, Gomes and James as starters in the team.
Ole should have said something, rather than doing a happy dance and lying about the state of the team, if he agrees with you.
 

Vault Dweller

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I dont think Sanchez and Lukaku are why we're struggling. Lukaku had some spells where he was coming off the bench to get some goals sure, but he's not the reason that our players did well last season and arent performing the same way this season. Those goals off the bench were just a way to sneak some points.

I could easily see Sanchez and Lukaku being here now and going through a rough spell just like Rashford is. They've had that here. The only difference would be that if Rashford isnt playing well, maybe Lukaku would come in for a few games and do better. Maybe he wouldnt. We're seeing that with Greenwood.

Imo the reason why we're not as good in attack is because players are more restricted. Pogba is playing a deeper role not as an attacker and Mata is playing that role, very poorly.

Ander and Matic together (mainly Ander) allowed Pogba to play further up. If we now had Ander and McTominay then Pogba could continue getting so far forward. But we don't. We have Fred and Matic who are poor options and Pogba is playing a role where he's nowhere near as effective for us. And Mata/Lingard arent anywhere near as effective as Pogba was in attacking midfield

To add to that, our 2nd most creative player after Pogba was Martial. Even if he was fit and playing, he'd be up front rather than on the left making a few chances for teammates. Thats not to say that Martial is a great creative player, he's still best making chances for himself, but we lack the players who regularly make those chances for others and he was our 2nd best, now he plays further up the pitch and can be isolated as a striker and not see as much of the ball. James has done well with scoring some goals but he's not as creative.
Good post. Agreed on points about restrictions and other players not bringing as much to the table. Is apparent in all the recent games, the quality of some players really is shocking. I'm dreading the Pool game.
 

djembatheking

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I hate all this putting down , name calling and belittling of Ole . He may not be the right man for the job but there's no need to call him every name under the sun . He will eventually get sacked and it suits Woodward to turn the fan base on him . If we get humiliated by Liverpool our fan base will no doubt take it out to feck on Ole , Woodward will then be seen to be doing the right thing in sacking him , he knows how to play our fans .
 

Spiersey

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This leak is pretty interesting as it comes across to me as if they are actually trying to justify the results and the performances so far. Whatever anyone thinks about the United squad and the quality of it, the reasons given in the article do just justify the performances/results since the PSG game. Ole is firmly at fault for how poor United are. Struggling to beat the likes of Astana (who are terrible, much worse than their side from 2/3 years ago), Rochdale (who City u21s beat comfortably away) and struggling massively against Saints and Newcastle has nothing to do with the player quality. The players are comfortably all better than the opposition sides (despite what some on here will want you to believe). An average premier league manager would have this united squad doing a lot better in all these games.
 

MisterLupus

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Are you from Norway by any chance?
I don't identify as a human - I consider myself an Indigo Milk Cap.

Players that are currently seeig starter minutes because of heavy injury problems:

Mason Greenwood, Angel Gomes, Ashley Young, Juan Mata, Matic, fecking Rojo. None of these players start or feature heavy in key matches if not for injuries. The first two are kids, the second two are getting old and have lost pace, Rojo is just not good enough
You forgot Fred - whom I'm not even sure is a footballer to be honest. We had a janitor at my high-school called Frederico twenty odd years ago who just suddenly disappeared one day. Could it be the same guy? Fell into a time hole and ended up on Old Trafford?
 

devilish

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Imo, the key disagreement between the "Ole out" and "Ole in" camps are not whether we are shite or whether the results are awful, i think the key is what we need going forward. Some people dont trust Ole to rebuild the squad, which is perfectly understandable considering our current form, but in my opinion just a semblance of continuity right now is more important than hitting the reset button once again and hoping the next appointment will solve our plight, despite there being loads of evidence that this goes well beyond the manager

I am not saying we should stick with Ole just because of sentiment, but i am willing to stomach a poor season if it means we can reap the rewards 2-3 years from now. People like to discredit his transfers as "obvious", but even though none of them (except James maybe) were "hidden gems", i would much prefer these three over pretty much any other transfer we have done the last 5-6 years. He also trimmed some unnecessary fat from the squad, which we have payed the price for (re: Lukaku) on the pitch now, but i would much prefer unwanted players being cleared out fast and painful rather than it being dragged out over several seasons.

Also, i am pretty confident that Ole is a better manager than our current disastrous runs suggests. No doubt EPL is a huge step up from the Norwegian league, but i dont think you can win the league in any country really if you are utterly inept at coaching

So despite us being utterly dire right now, i still have some hope there are better times ahead if Ole is given the chance to fulfill his vision. The transfers in have been good (the best in a long time), the departures have been necessary, and him talking about "building a new culture" and having a British core (which we always had) seems sensible in my eyes
My argument is easy to understand. We need a major rebuild and United do not shit money like dubai guys do. Taking that two points into consideration would you rather trust someone with experience or would you go with someone who has been tanking in any EPL management role he had including the one with us?

If you ask me I'd say I wouldn't trust anyone. That's too much power for 1 person to handle. Instead I'd seriously restructure the club by bringing in a top football ceo, a top DOF, a top manager and a top head of recruitment. Marotta, Campos, Mitchell and Allegri could do the trick. Once that is in place we can proceed to the next step.

However leaving the job in the hand of some amateur simply because when he was a player he used to be useful when leaving the bench is frigging madness. The guy is ridiculously out of depth

Campos has recently come out with an interview which echoes exactly my thought about the need of a DoF. The guy knows his stuff on this matter
 

Oldyella

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My argument is easy to understand. We need a major rebuild and United do not shit money like dubai guys do. Taking that two points into consideration would you rather trust someone with experience or would you go with someone who has been tanking in any EPL management role he had including the one with us?

If you ask me I'd say I wouldn't trust anyone. That's too much power for 1 person to handle. Instead I'd seriously restructure the club by bringing in a top football ceo, a top DOF, a top manager and a top head of recruitment. Marotta, Campos, Mitchell and Allegri could do the trick. Once that is in place we can proceed to the next step.

However leaving the job in the hand of some amateur simply because when he was a player he used to be useful when leaving the bench is frigging madness. The guy is ridiculously out of depth
Agree with all of this, but especially the bolded. Sad to say as he was one of my favourite players but he's just not up to it.
 

Josep Dowling

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The whole piece suggests Solskjaer wanted a major overhaul and was let down by the Matt Judge who was negotiating transfers. Been said quite a few times that Matt Judge only has the job because he went to uni with Ed Woodward. The whole club is being run by inept people.
 

el3mel

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Because a season before it happened to Jose too. When we finished second in strong position Ed failed to back him too. Jose went vocal about it and Ole didn't. That's the only difference.
Jose had enough balls to go against the board and Ed. Ole is just a yes man who did nothing in his quotes to make even a single evidence of displeasure about the market. On the contrary he even went and said it was his decision to sell Lukaku etc. Whether he's that stupid or he covered for Woodward, both deserve criticism. Why should he cover for Woodward?

I'm sorry buy I'm ready to support a manager going against the board and Ed far more than a manager covering for them in the media and leaking stuff via anonymous sources.
 

Denis79

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Imo, the key disagreement between the "Ole out" and "Ole in" camps are not whether we are shite or whether the results are awful, i think the key is what we need going forward. Some people dont trust Ole to rebuild the squad, which is perfectly understandable considering our current form, but in my opinion just a semblance of continuity right now is more important than hitting the reset button once again and hoping the next appointment will solve our plight, despite there being loads of evidence that this goes well beyond the manager

I am not saying we should stick with Ole just because of sentiment, but i am willing to stomach a poor season if it means we can reap the rewards 2-3 years from now. People like to discredit his transfers as "obvious", but even though none of them (except James maybe) were "hidden gems", i would much prefer these three over pretty much any other transfer we have done the last 5-6 years. He also trimmed some unnecessary fat from the squad, which we have payed the price for (re: Lukaku) on the pitch now, but i would much prefer unwanted players being cleared out fast and painful rather than it being dragged out over several seasons.

Also, i am pretty confident that Ole is a better manager than our current disastrous runs suggests. No doubt EPL is a huge step up from the Norwegian league, but i dont think you can win the league in any country really if you are utterly inept at coaching

So despite us being utterly dire right now, i still have some hope there are better times ahead if Ole is given the chance to fulfill his vision. The transfers in have been good (the best in a long time), the departures have been necessary, and him talking about "building a new culture" and having a British core (which we always had) seems sensible in my eyes
I personally blame most of our recent troubles on the board. What they essentially did was give a lesser manager a lesser squad after our disastrous last season. Let's be honest, did people expect Ole to outshine LVG and Mourinho tactically? I didn't. I did however expect Ole to raise the morale and with that the quality of the players already in place. Now I think it has become obvious that are players aren't that good to begin with, that in combination with an inexperienced manager has put us in a precarious situation.

I'm in the Ole IN camp for no other reason than that I have zero faith in our board. If we change managers we'll most likely change direction in our rebuild again, it has happened with every managerial change post SAF and nothing tells me that will change as long as Woodward is in charge.

Right now the only question I ask myself is how bad bad am I willing to let it become before I change my mind?
 

Marcus

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I personally blame most of our recent troubles on the board. What they essentially did was give a lesser manager a lesser squad after our disastrous last season. Let's be honest, did people expect Ole to outshine LVG and Mourinho tactically? I didn't. I did however expect Ole to raise the morale and with that the quality of the players already in place. Now I think it has become obvious that are players aren't that good to begin with, that in combination with an inexperienced manager has put us in a precarious situation.

I'm in the Ole IN camp for no other reason than that I have zero faith in our board. If we change managers we'll most likely change direction in our rebuild again, it has happened with every managerial change post SAF and nothing tells me that will change as long as Woodward is in charge.

Right now the only question I ask myself is how bad bad am I willing to let it become before I change my mind?
Sadly, I think you will crack after the Liverpool game.
 

Denis79

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Sadly, I think you will crack after the Liverpool game.
Could very well happen, it all depends on how we lose and what is said afterwards.

Edit: Can't believe I wrote that instinctively, that it is so certain we'll lose, hope I'm proven wrong.
 

POF

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What an absolute shambles. Whispers, rumours and innuendo. All summer, the stories were about how it was a culture reset. A long term rebuild was required.

The squad gets absolutely gutted. 7 out, 3 in, going into the season with a ridiculously thin squad but it's ok, it's a long term rebuild. Don't rush to sign just anyone. Wait for the ideal candidate as it's a long term project.

We're in October and already it looks inevitable that the coach will be sacked. The club is an absolute laughing stock.
 

Amerifan

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Could very well happen, it all depends on how we lose and what is said afterwards.

Edit: Can't believe I wrote that instinctively, that it is so certain we'll lose, hope I'm proven wrong.
Funny, I read that first sentence and thought to myself, it does depend on how we lose. I have to remind myself Sheffield nearly got a point.
 

Fosu-Mens

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What an absolute shambles. Whispers, rumours and innuendo. All summer, the stories were about how it was a culture reset. A long term rebuild was required.

The squad gets absolutely gutted. 7 out, 3 in, going into the season with a ridiculously thin squad but it's ok, it's a long term rebuild. Don't rush to sign just anyone. Wait for the ideal candidate as it's a long term project.

We're in October and already it looks inevitable that the coach will be sacked. The club is an absolute laughing stock.
As long as the fans doesn't revolt, then people at the club are happy. The board/Woodward will only make changes when the fans are starting to show their annoyance towards them.

The club having a culture reset or rebuild is just words spoken to the media to keep the fans appeased. Behind the scenes with how they operate, make decisions etc nothing has changed. When the fans are no longer appeased (like we are starting to see now again for the nth time) they will make changes --> OGS etc fired and new promises of investments in january/summer and DoF and what not...
 

MisterLupus

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I am sorry, you have identified the problems in your post, but you don't want to place it on the coaching. Why not? These are international players, if they are making blind and weird decisions in the final third, then that is absolutely down to the coaches to tell them and make them change it. Yet we have half a season worth of games to see that nothing is changing. Who's responsibility is it to make them change?

Also let's take this one by one:
Possession: In the two games we have won this season, we actually had less possession; against Chelsea and Leicester. Coincidence? No. This team is only effective when counter attacking. Ole can simply not coach this team in attacking patterns when teams sit back and absorb pressure. In those scenarios, it is us who have been successfully counter-attacked or sucker-punched.
Work rate & pressure: Our pressing is still erratic and does not work cohesively - we barely win the ball back from teams. Also, it is not focused - Rashord making 50 yard dashes to close down the keeper ffs - and it is causing muscle injuries.
Defensive stability: We have conceded in every game bar two (and in one of those games the opposition hit the bar thrice). Even this has been achieved by playing with two holding midfielders, which contributes in hindering our attacks against lesser opposition.
Well it all comes down to our impotence in the final third either way - at least we agree on that - our biggest difference though is probably what's key here - the claim a lot of people are making that this is all down to poor coaching. I'm not buying that - it's a naive assessment at best.

Young suddenly finding himself alone with the keeper against Newcastle then freezing up before panicking and sending a random pass into the box where nobody's ready to receive it - rather than just shooting at the open target - is down to Young and nobody else. Both Maguire and McTominay missing clear sitters because they suddenly - after having done it right an entire game picking out headers to their teammates perfectly - not being able to use their foreheads in a constructive manner - is not down to coaching it's down to them making amess of the situation and nothing else. Pogba and Rashford proving incapable of netting even a penalty - or hitting an open net (Rashford's done that twice allthough one of the chances was a sliding effort so can't really fault him on that particular one) - is not down to coaching either. We've also had one example of a perfect pass into the box where there was only a single defender poorly positioned blocking the path - with the keeper already beat - a situation where it was actually harder to hit that defender than netting the ball - ending up in the prementioned defenders legs anyways rather than at goal. Mata too burned a clear sitter on an open net in a similar situation where he was even closer to the net.

No fecking way did Solskjær teach them that - he was world class clinical.

And these are just from the top of my head - it doesn't count for all the times we've seen good runs or perfectly positioned attackers inside the box go to waste because the ballcarrier decides instead to either dribble their way into nowhere's arsehole or to make some hopeless shot either way up into the stands or straight into the feet of some defender. I've even seen them nmerous times looking straight at the open man but then suddenly deeming it smarter passing it back towards a supportive player.

I'm sorry the players are far from innocent in this - our tactics open up enough chances for them they're simply no good at neither creating nor scoring goals. In fact they've proven utterly useless at it - at times they even seem terrified at taking any form of responsibility whatsoever. They've played football their entire lives at top level - you're selling them way short thinking they're just a bunch of buttmuppets remote-controlled by our coaches and not the least bit responsible themselves. They deserve more credit than that - Ole and his crew far less of it. We have a handful players who'd make regulars of themselves ten years ago - the rest are either too young and immature - they'd be little more than rotation options back then - reserves even a couple of them - or simply not good enough at all to be anywhere near a title-challenging Manchester United.

I find it disturbing that people who were screaming "get rid of the deadwood" last season now suddenly find it convenient to absolve this very same deadwood of blame - pointing fingers instead to our coaches when truth is that at least our senior players haven't produced for ages - and our youngsters (Rashford included though I feel McTominay's making good on his talent) simply aren't ready yet.
 
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edcunited1878

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So you think Ole has a plan and that given it isn't working has a back-up. Sorry, it's how some of us said when he got the job: not experienced enough. Winning at Molde means feck all
Ole and the staff have a plan and so far it hasn't gone accordingly, especially the results. It's not all about Ole's experience but also the lack of quality and experienced players. Lampard has much less experience than Ole, but Chelsea has more experienced players to call upon. Lampard and Morris are also familiar with Tomori, Mount (who both played under Lampard at Derby for a full year - Tomori has been loaned out at least twice to Championship clubs) and Abraham. Those 3 players are young, but have full seasons of professional football. More than Greenwood, Gomes, Chong and James.

So if Ole and team are going to build from within and buy slowly, then he'll need to use the players at his disposal as best as he can to generate results and expand their capabilities for the future.
 

elmo

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I think if Ole had a spine in the team (which he has tried to add with his 3 signings) he can bed in young players, not totally rely on them. Rashford wasn't relied on as a main striker after others came back from injury.

Like I said, James is 22 and wasn't bought to be a starter..yet because Ole wasn't backed, James is now first on the team sheet.

To understand how badly run and having absolutely no intention of backing this rebuild.. think back to the summer when you, I and all other fans logged into the Maguire thread everyday and refreshed it all summer to see if the deal was done. The deal was completed the last week of the window. WHY? Leicester didn't change their stance all summer.

Reason why is cause there was no intention in getting a midfielder this window. No intention of replacing Lukaku, Herrera, Sanchez...

Yes Ole said there is good youngsters but he never wanted to completely rely on unproven kids simple because we bought James, Maguire and AWB. If us as fans can see that would never work why would you think Ole would think that...you really think he's that stupid?

I'm sorry if you feel offended as a fan. I also feel offended that our fan base refuse to see the problems at the club.

I will hold Ole's team accountable for the injury list. There has to be an issue there. But expecting Ole to get kids to perform with no spine to the team is asking for a miracle.

Like I said, we all saw the plan during the preseason Asia tour...Lukaku and Sanchez were not involved but the plan wasn't to have players like Greenwood, Chong, Gomes and James as starters in the team.
What a load of tripe.

People aren't going after Ole for the state of the team, they're going after him for trying literally nothing to shake up the results. I literally mentioned Ed and Judge failed the team in terms of transfers in my original post, stop trying to tell me what everybody knows.

Ole ain't a saint, he's not the main problem, but he is a part of it with how terribly he's set us up to play with the players available to him. Ole isn't even playing the kids, stop making up excuses for him.
 

ash_86

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Jose had enough balls to go against the board and Ed. Ole is just a yes man who did nothing in his quotes to make even a single evidence of displeasure about the market. On the contrary he even went and said it was his decision to sell Lukaku etc. Whether he's that stupid or he covered for Woodward, both deserve criticism. Why should he cover for Woodward?

I'm sorry buy I'm ready to support a manager going against the board and Ed far more than a manager covering for them in the media and leaking stuff via anonymous sources.
Jose had zero affiliations with the club and he can step on it how ever he wants. It's a different ball game for Ole, he genuinely loves the club and fans and also his first season here. So he wanted to present a united front. All those Fegie dialog's about "No value in the market" is also for saving face for the board. But Fergie being a genius got the best out of the squad at his disposal.

The take away from here is that it's happened to Jose , it happened to Ole , it will happen to the next manager. What are we going to do about it? That's the only thing we should be concerned about. Ed could sack Ole in the next 5 minutes and he'd be gone but nothing changes for us and we will start the same thread next year with a different manager being named.
 

el3mel

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Jose had zero affiliations with the club and he can step on it how ever he wants. It's a different ball game for Ole, he genuinely loves the club and fans and also his first season here. So he wanted to present a united front. All those Fegie dialog's about "No value in the market" is also for saving face for the board. But Fergie being a genius got the best out of the squad at his disposal.

The take away from here is that it's happened to Jose , it happened to Ole , it will happen to the next manager. What are we going to do about it? That's the only thing we should be concerned about. Ed could sack Ole in the next 5 minutes and he'd be gone but nothing changes for us and we will start the same thread next year with a different manager being named.
If he loves the club so much he shouldn't be covering for the board who fecked up the team and didn't get him what he wants if that is the truth. Mourinho maybe didn't love the club much or was caring for himself but the reality is he wanted to win far more than anyone else and had enough balls to go against the board. All these are only lame excuses tbh. He hasn't shown a single discontent with the transfer market or the squad. He went on and said these were his decisions multiple times. He needs to take the blame as much as Woodward. I will only support him if he has shown those were against his decisions and he doesn't like what the board but either these were his actual decisions or he's simply too weak to go against the board and decided to become a yes man to not lose his job, both don't deserve any kind of support to be honest. With this he has damaged the team as much as Woodward.

No one said sacking Ole will solve anything. We all know Woodward is crap but Ole has done nothing to justify him not being an actual problem. A yes man that can't complain about what the board does for his team and his tactics are diabolical and can't even get the best out of what he has.
 

ash_86

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If he loves the club so much he shouldn't be covering for the board who fecked up the team and didn't get him what he wants if that is the truth. Mourinho maybe didn't love the club much or was caring for himself but the reality is he wanted to win far more than anyone else and had enough balls to go against the board. All these are only lame excuses tbh. He hasn't shown a single discontent with the transfer market or the squad. He went on and said these were his decisions multiple times. He needs to take the blame as much as Woodward. I will only support him if he has shown those were against his decisions and he doesn't like what the board but either these were his actual decisions or he's simply too weak to go against the board and decided to become a yes man to not lose his job, both don't deserve any kind of support to be honest. With this he has damaged the team as much as Woodward.

No one said sacking Ole will solve anything. We all know Woodward is crap but Ole has done nothing to justify him not being an actual problem. A yes man that can't complain about what the board does for his team and his tactics are diabolical and can't even get the best out of what he has.
Didn't he specifically say any outgoing forwards has to be replaced?
 

el3mel

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Didn't he specifically say any outgoing forwards has to be replaced?
He said that during last season, then went on this season and said it was his decision to sell Lukaku and the right target wasn't "present" so he decided to stick with what he has. He also said during summer if he wasn't trusting Martial and Rashford he would not have let someone leave or would have bought someone.

"We are very happy with the recruitment we did. Towards the end the right one we just didn't get him over the line.
"You'd rather bite the bullet and wait because you don't want to spend big amounts of money on something that you are not sure of."

"If I did not believe in them, we would have signed someone else or kept someone else. We believe in them definitely."

If you believe he was lying in there and just wanting to keep things positive, it's not an excuse. It just proves he's too weak to press the board and is just happy sticking around with the job even if the board fecked up the team for him, not just that but he also goes to the media to say all these were his decisions. If he is covering for Woodward then it's not an excuse. It proves he's just afraid of losing a job he never dreamt to get at any other time.
 

ash_86

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He said that during last season, then went on this season and said it was his decision to sell Lukaku and the right target wasn't "present" so he decided to stick with what he has. He also said during summer if he wasn't trusting Martial and Rashford he would not have let someone leave or would have bought someone.


"We are very happy with the recruitment we did. Towards the end the right one we just didn't get him over the line.
"You'd rather bite the bullet and wait because you don't want to spend big amounts of money on something that you are not sure of."

If you believe he was lying in there and just wanting to keep things positive, it's not an excuse. It just proves he's too weak to press the board and is just happy sticking around with the job even if the board fecked up the team for him, not just that but he also goes to the media to say all these were his decisions. If he is covering for Woodward then it's not an excuse. It proves he's just afraid of losing a job he never dreamt to get at any other time.
"We didn't get him over the Line". Who's responsible for that? he clearly says the board failed to get him what he wanted. Just because he didn't throw a tantrum while saying this doesn't mean he's happy with what he got.
 

el3mel

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"We didn't get him over the Line". Who's responsible for that? he clearly says the board failed to get him what he wanted. Just because he didn't throw a tantrum while saying this doesn't mean he's happy with what he got.
Why didn't you read the second line immediately about not wanting to spend big so we didn't get him? Nothing in the quote is against the board. He's saying we did the right things biting the bullet and not paying big amount of such players.
 

ryansgirl

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Jose had enough balls to go against the board and Ed. Ole is just a yes man who did nothing in his quotes to make even a single evidence of displeasure about the market. On the contrary he even went and said it was his decision to sell Lukaku etc. Whether he's that stupid or he covered for Woodward, both deserve criticism. Why should he cover for Woodward?
I'm sorry buy I'm ready to support a manager going against the board and Ed far more than a manager covering for them in the media and leaking stuff via anonymous sources.
You're losing your marbles just like some others on here. Let me refresh your memory - Jose coming out publicly against the board by making his displeasure felt did nothing to create any solutions to that problem. He also rubbed some of the players the wrong way precisely by venting to the media. Publicly criticizing current players of yours as a manager in the way that Jose did nearly always ends badly.

A manager is an employee like the others employed at a football club.

I wish Jose hadn't aired all the dirty laundry as manager because his loss of control lost him the job some of us believe he should have been allowed to finish at a date that would have given some closure. You now assert that Ole should be demonstrating the same loss of control in looking publicly disloyal to those that employ him - he is much more intelligent than those calling for such public displays of opposition to those lousy individuals stuffing up the club through their arrogance.

Sir Alex knew the game inside out including the game of how to communicate publicly as a manager and especially as a manager of Manchester United. His methods are in no way out of date. You do not do what Jose did - it will do nothing for Ole, nothing for Manchester United, it will just ignite very publicly and explode in everybody's face. Of course the media and other clubs would love for it to happen but it's frankly idiotic for United supporters to advocate that going-down-in-a -screaming-heap move.
 
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el3mel

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sounds like Ed messed up the Lukaku replacement to me but obviously Ole didn’t want a replacement :rolleyes:

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...lo-dybala-manchester-united-transfer-17051028
“Hearing your name linked to every team and every place, where you don’t want to go, isn’t a nice thing.
The guy is saying he was linked places to he didn't want to go. Clearly saying he rejected us. Anyway we weren't negotiating with them over him. They were the one wanted to hijack Lukaku- Inter deal and tried to force Dybala as a part of a swap, but he rejected us and the deal collapsed. Nothing here says Ole actually did "wanted" him.
 

0le

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I dont think Sanchez and Lukaku are why we're struggling. Lukaku had some spells where he was coming off the bench to get some goals sure, but he's not the reason that our players did well last season and arent performing the same way this season. Those goals off the bench were just a way to sneak some points.

I could easily see Sanchez and Lukaku being here now and going through a rough spell just like Rashford is. They've had that here. The only difference would be that if Rashford isnt playing well, maybe Lukaku would come in for a few games and do better. Maybe he wouldnt. We're seeing that with Greenwood.

Imo the reason why we're not as good in attack is because players are more restricted. Pogba is playing a deeper role not as an attacker and Mata is playing that role, very poorly.

Ander and Matic together (mainly Ander) allowed Pogba to play further up. If we now had Ander and McTominay then Pogba could continue getting so far forward. But we don't. We have Fred and Matic who are poor options and Pogba is playing a role where he's nowhere near as effective for us. And Mata/Lingard arent anywhere near as effective as Pogba was in attacking midfield

To add to that, our 2nd most creative player after Pogba was Martial. Even if he was fit and playing, he'd be up front rather than on the left making a few chances for teammates. Thats not to say that Martial is a great creative player, he's still best making chances for himself, but we lack the players who regularly make those chances for others and he was our 2nd best, now he plays further up the pitch and can be isolated as a striker and not see as much of the ball. James has done well with scoring some goals but he's not as creative.
Fully agree. Good post!
 

Seaman

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Think he’ll be gone before the months over with the way it’s shaping up now.
If he loses to Liverpool and other result goes against them. I think he will be gone 2-3 days after. Which is stupid because best time to sack a manager in during internationals as you have 14 days withno game
 

ash_86

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Why didn't you read the second line immediately about not wanting to spend big so we didn't get him? Nothing in the quote is against the board. He's saying we did the right things biting the bullet and not paying big amount of such players.
He says we found the right one and didn't get him over the line. In the next line he says he didn't want to pay big money for something he's not sure of. How can the right one be something he's not sure of? I think it needs to be read as "We didn't get the right one over the line and so didn't want to spend big money on someone else who we weren't sure of". Which clearly states the board screwed him over by not getting his man and Ole didn't want to spend big on other players.
 

fergiesarmy1

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The guy is saying he was linked places to he didn't want to go. Clearly saying he rejected us. Anyway we weren't negotiating with them over him. They were the one wanted to hijack Lukaku- Inter deal and tried to force Dybala as a part of a swap, but he rejected us and the deal collapsed. Nothing here says Ole actually did "wanted" him.
When your options are Rashford, Greenwood and Martial only a lunatic would say no to Dybala.
 

ryansgirl

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When your options are Rashford, Greenwood and Martial only a lunatic would say no to Dybala.
Dybala and his agent gave United the run-around so yes, there is a point at which it's not worth it. The player is not interested, the agent is messing the interested club around, the wage demands that are too high are also part of it - why should United have wasted more energy on Dybala?

It's similar to those calling for Gareth Bale. Good for him, he has forced Real to include him and doing quite well again but he never wanted to come to Manchester United and never will.
 

el3mel

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He says we found the right one and didn't get him over the line. In the next line he says he didn't want to pay big money for something he's not sure of. How can the right one be something he's not sure of? I think it needs to be read as "We didn't get the right one over the line and so didn't want to spend big money on someone else who we weren't sure of". Which clearly states the board screwed him over by not getting his man and Ole didn't want to spend big on other players.
The point is that he wasn't that discontent by the board not deciding to spend big on other players and was happy to enter the season with such squad just because the "right target" wasn't present so he decided to wait for it. Another manager, if his first option couldn't be done or is dragging down in deal with little time left, would have let the club move down to the second player in list and so on instead of entering the season in such state. Which manager enters the market with only one "right target" to sign ? As far as I'm concerned managers put a list for several players in each position to give the club several options.

What you get from the quote is the guy is totally happy with the transfer policy of the club in the market and he has no problem "waiting" for the right target to be present. Nothing here is against the board.