There would be a lot of innocent people alive instead of dead
Northern Ireland Thread
- Thread starter Gaz.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
I’m not really sure why comments like this are acceptable.
What's the difference between the IRA and New IRA? Do they both have the same beliefs?
Freedom of speech?
When you have a board member who's brother was murdered by the IRA 8 years ago, and possiblly many others who have lost loved one's throughout the years, im not sure it's acceptable.
He's free to believe what he likes. We are all holding political views that others don't agree with. I was in the British Army so I'm sure many Irish posters would view that as supporting illegality and murder.
So long as posters aren't openly advocating violence and whatnot then they can be here. It's more helpful to discuss opposing views than to just ban people for holding them.
I’m not sure it would go down too well if people said they were proud UVF supporters.
I have to admit that I find it somewhat strange that people that hold the UK and particularly England in such contempt support an English football team.
Well yeah but in certain situations violence is the correct stance. Or do you disagree ?
That would be a English football team with american owners, international players(Our best player is French) and our most successful managers have been from Scotland.
I think it's interesting. I have an Irish friend who is a Republican but disassociates with the innocent deaths that the IRA caused, but does hold anger towards the British Army for the role in the Troubles and the British Government for occupation in Ireland.
I could never condone the deaths of innocent people, but then I am fortunate enough to have never lived in a country that has been occupied by a foreign state.
Oh here we fecking go.
You may say that with your usual (and ever more boring) sarcastic smiley. But most English teams are still seen as representative of the city/town/area and are supported in the main by people from those places. Regardless of composition.Well yeah but in certain situations violence is the correct stance. Or do you disagree ?
That would be a English football team with american owners, international players(Our best player is French) and our most successful managers have been from Scotland.
Why are you on an Irish forum then? Go support English forums will you?
Why do you say that? We have a poster on here that supports the IRA and it's 'achievements' which would by definition place him in the category of having utter contempt for the English. And you don't think that his support for an English based football team isn't strange? Maybe it's just my simplistic view-point and my failure to understand this incredibly complicated problem that nobody outside of Ireland can ever possibly have any idea about.
To be clear, I mean I support the provos from the 70’s and 80’s who if you read up on the history and watch how Catholics were being treated at the time, were completely justified in taking up arms, of course killing innocent civillians is wrong it goes without saying.
As for the incident you’re talking about 8 years ago, thats a disgusting act carried out by scumbag wannabes. Should never have happened.
This is a Northern Irish (part of the UK) thread on a Forum set up in support of an English (part of the UK) football club
I can't speak for that poster but 99% of Irish people have absolutely no issues with the modern English person, only what the country did to us 100 years ago (or 30-40 years, in the case of Northern Ireland people). We can easily separate the two. I don't condone the IRA so I don't really have an opinion on that aspect.
So what's wrong with us supporting an English football club especially when you consider the amount of Irish immigrants that there were in Manchester and the amount of them we are descended from, as well as the vast amount of great Irish footballers that have played for Utd?
What you're basically saying is that only locals should support their local team. You might want to tell that to the swathes of Liverpool supporters I saw in London during the CL final that completely outweighed the Spurs fans, too.
Still an Irish forum though innit?
No I am not saying that. I am merely saying that if you hold the English in enough contempt as to support a cause that killed thousands because of it's hatred of the English then why support an English football team. I'm not saying he's not allowed I am asking why?
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You could try(And still fail)to this make the argument if you were talking about a conference team or maybe if you lived in the 1950s but United is one of the biggest football teams on the planet. It goes far beyond a city in the North of England, United filled out a stadium in China for a pre season game.
Yeah lots of white English middle men can't do as such. So when people talk about the acts the British government have done to well anyone they take it extremely personally, as if your attacking them.
Nationalism makes people very stupid.
Like an IRA supporter following an English football team right?
Oh Jesus Christ.
You can be an Irish Republican and not hate everything English ffs.
I dont know what youve been told or what you have read up on but Irish Republicanism is NOTHING to do with hating England, the English or fecking not supporting Manchester United. Christ on a bike.
I think Grinner summed it up best.
Perhaps. I still don’t think it would go down well. Have we any proud ISIS supporters?
Your posts are literally made for the green laughing emoji
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That may be the view now. But it didn't seem that way, especially if you were unlucky enough to be having a pint in the wrong pub in Guildford or Birmingham in 74
Not “the English” as such, as I know plenty of English people I get along with the best and plenty of Irish people I can’t stand, it’s more utter contempt for the English/British state, which, if you read up on the last 800 years or so is fair enough.
Im going somewhere with this.. but do you live in the north or south?
Both wrong. And God help you if you were an Irishman walking the streets of England after those bombings. You could have found yourself wrongly imprisoned for years for something you didnt do. We could go in circles all day.
Your initial post suggests you cant understand why Irish People would support an English Football Team. Which quite frankly is a nonsense and shows absolutely zero understanding for the Irish/British Situation.
You will probably then be amazed to know that Martin McGuinness was a big United fan. He was also a supporter of the English cricket Team. Guess he didnt hate everything English after all.....
The North... not far from the border.
If there was a united ireland vote tomorrow what way would you vote but more importantly, and my actual question, why would you vote that way?
Would you listen to all sides of all arguments (which are hopefully truthful and not lies to get people to vote certain ways) make an informed decision that is best for the people or will you just go **** Britain/ni and vote UI?
Genuinely interested to see what way hardline Republicans and unionists would vote
Hardline Republicans and Unionists will vote exactly as you would expect them to.
If the day ever comes there is a border poll it will be the moderates on either side that will influence it most.
Not sure about both those incidents being wrong. People may have been wrongly prosecuted but the IRA claimed responsibility. Plus I'm not questioning Irish people supporting United per-se just those who support the IRA. However, this does not appear to be a paradox to anyone here. Out of interest, were there many republicans that went and supported George Best playing for Northern Ireland?
Actually the IRA to this day have never claimed responsibilty for Birmingham.
The line in bold - do you expect IRA supporters not to have outside interests or to follow one of the biggest Clubs in the world which has long long and Deep Irish Connection purely because it is an English club? I mean sorry but thats a load of nonsense and I take you back to my earlier Point - you can be an Irish republican without hating all things English. Is it easier for you or fit your narrative better to say that yes they do hate all things English? Its simply not the case. It is not a paradox at all.
I come across this time and time again with many English People and Im afraid to say it never sinks in or they just dont get it.
George Best transcended both communities. I would say many supported him but it was before my time.
Yes, my father for one.
Ambivalence is one of the characteristic responses of the colonized to the colonizer. The experience of being colonized is, of course, traumatic enough in its immediate material consequences. But what makes it truly complex (and interesting I’d argue), is how this trauma and the feelings of inferiority or insecurity it provokes, can coexist with deep, often suppressed feelings of admiration for particular aspects of the colonizer’s culture, a desire for his approval, or an ambition to basically take his place. Humans are capable of living with all manner of seemingly paradoxical or contradictory emotions, you’ll find examples of them all in the Irish experience.
I'm not a hardline Republican, nor am I proud of the IRA.
If/when a border poll comes I will vote for a United Ireland. And I will do so each and every time I'm able to participate in such a referendum in the hope that one succeeds in delivering said result.
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Are you saying that many of the Irish have Stockholm syndrome?
I don’t think so.