The Continual Fall Of Paul Gascoigne

stepic

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I don't think you get it. A kiss and a rape is not the same thing no matter what the mentality is behind it.
no one is saying they're the same thing. but they are still both an assault (of varying degrees), which is why sentencing (if it does occur) will differ also.
 

Paxi

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Addiction isn’t a weakness ffs. I’m no expert but aren’t there a lot of contributing factors as to why an individual might be susceptible to addiction?
What a bizarre, ignorant take on things. What next, depression is a weakness and not a real illness? :houllier:

I doubt Gaza understands what he did was totally wrong. That’s not me apologising for him, but he always was a bit an idiot, and I’m not even surprised that he’d hold views such as ‘she needed a confidence boost so I gave her a kiss’ — I’m surprised that he hasn’t assaulted someone sooner.

He needs serious help that’s for sure.
 

Sir Scott McToMinay

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Addiction isn’t a weakness ffs. I’m no expert but aren’t there a lot of contributing factors as to why an individual might be susceptible to addiction?
What a bizarre, ignorant take on things. What next, depression is a weakness and not a real illness? :houllier:

I doubt Gaza understands what he did was totally wrong. That’s not me apologising for him, but he always was a bit an idiot, and I’m not even surprised that he’d hold views such as ‘she needed a confidence boost so I gave her a kiss’ — I’m surprised that he hasn’t assaulted someone sooner.

He needs serious help that’s for sure.
He doesn’t need shit, and he doesn’t want any help, he wants to be an alcoholic.

Millions of far more worthy people for help than some idiot who kicked a ball once and was offered all the help and the support for 2 decades now, yet he keeps going and people keep feeling sorry for him.
I don’t feel sorry for him one bit, I feel sorry for that woman.

Just keep that moron away from society.
 

Paxi

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He doesn’t need shit, and he doesn’t want any help, he wants to be an alcoholic.

Millions of far more worthy people for help than some idiot who kicked a ball once and was offered all the help and the support for 2 decades now, yet he keeps going and people keep feeling sorry for him.
I don’t feel sorry for him one bit, I feel sorry for that woman.

Just keep that moron away from society.
He does need help since he’s acting like a moron. What are we to do with him? Put him down?
 

Needham

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Gazza has such a wicked combination of personality disorders. The Moaty thing is still underrated as one of the most tragic public interventions ever. Even sober he is always on the brink. But it's his only remote hope.
 

The Purley King

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I believe Gazza when he said that he wanted to give the lady a confidence boost. He might be a lot of things, but from the evidence of the last 30 odd years he's a generous and kind bloke, probably so much so its actually been to his detriment. I think his actions came with good intentions, but being completely pissed his filter for how that manifested itself was completely bypassed.
Its clearly massively inappropriate to go and kiss her though, please don't think I'm defending him for that and he should be punished suitably.
I'm less likely to be as harsh as some on here for being an alcoholic, as I've had some severe issues with the booze myself. Saying "he wants to be an alcoholic" is almost certainly wrong though imo. Yes he's had more chances and more support than most get and its easy to see why some people's patience has run out, but I'm sure its more complicated than "he likes being a pisshead".
 

Lay

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Addiction isn’t a weakness ffs. I’m no expert but aren’t there a lot of contributing factors as to why an individual might be susceptible to addiction?
What a bizarre, ignorant take on things. What next, depression is a weakness and not a real illness? :houllier:

I doubt Gaza understands what he did was totally wrong. That’s not me apologising for him, but he always was a bit an idiot, and I’m not even surprised that he’d hold views such as ‘she needed a confidence boost so I gave her a kiss’ — I’m surprised that he hasn’t assaulted someone sooner.

He needs serious help that’s for sure.
Hasn’t he had a lot of serious help for a number of years now?
 

Pagh Wraith

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I've also been sexually assaulted technically, e.g. kissed on the mouth unprovoked. But it's just different when it happens to a man I guess. As much as I often push for everyone being treated the same and receiving the same punishment for identical offense, I would never have even dreamed of calling club security in my case. Whereas I would absolutely label what Gascoigne did sexual assault.
 

vangagal

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I believe Gazza when he said that he wanted to give the lady a confidence boost. He might be a lot of things, but from the evidence of the last 30 odd years he's a generous and kind bloke, probably so much so its actually been to his detriment. I think his actions came with good intentions, but being completely pissed his filter for how that manifested itself was completely bypassed.
Its clearly massively inappropriate to go and kiss her though, please don't think I'm defending him for that and he should be punished suitably.
I'm less likely to be as harsh as some on here for being an alcoholic, as I've had some severe issues with the booze myself. Saying "he wants to be an alcoholic" is almost certainly wrong though imo. Yes he's had more chances and more support than most get and its easy to see why some people's patience has run out, but I'm sure its more complicated than "he likes being a pisshead".
You needs help as much as Gazza needs. Confidence boost ffs.
 

The Purley King

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You needs help as much as Gazza needs. Confidence boost ffs.
As I understand it someone else in the carriage had said something like "Why would you want your photo taken with her, she's fat and ugly", referring to the lady in question, so everyone in the carriage could hear. Gazza then tried to rectify the situation. As I said, what he did is wrong and he should be punished, no arguments there. In his drunken, confused way, I do believe he was trying to be helpful and kind.
If you feel differently then fair enough, just putting my opinion out there.

EDIT - also Gazza was heard to say shortly afterwards that he was trying to give her a confidence boost. In his inebriated state I very much doubt he was immediately thinking of his possible legal defence.
 
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Halds

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no one is saying they're the same thing. but they are still both an assault (of varying degrees), which is why sentencing (if it does occur) will differ also.
I just looked it up.. My native language is not english, so my apologies for not understanding that 'assault' also can mean unwanted physical contact, and not only like i thought, physical violent attack. So yes.. It is obviously an assault.

I do believe though, that calling him a sexual predator, and call for him to be judged as such, is implying, that it's the same thing. All I've been saying is, that it's not the same thing.
 

vangagal

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As I understand it someone else in the carriage had said something like "Why would you want your photo taken with her, she's fat and ugly", referring to the lady in question, so everyone in the carriage could hear. Gazza then tried to rectify the situation. As I said, what he did is wrong and he should be punished, no arguments there. In his drunken, confused way, I do believe he was trying to be helpful and kind.
If you feel differently then fair enough, just putting my opinion out there.
How was kissing a woman without her consent rectifying a situation? Its stupid as its get. There is no logic there.
 

The Purley King

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How was kissing a woman without her consent rectifying a situation? Its stupid as its get. There is no logic there.
The logic is that he thought he'd try to make her feel better by giving her a kiss, after just being publicly insulted for being fat and ugly. Twisted logic for sure for most people, but he was pissed. As I said, any logic or not behind what he did and how pissed he was are not mitigating factors and he needs to be punished accordingly, but that is my take on why he did what he did.
 

Paxi

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Hasn’t he had a lot of serious help for a number of years now?
More than likely but do we as society just give up on him and wait until he potentially does something very heinous?
 

vangagal

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The logic is that he thought he'd try to make her feel better by giving her a kiss, after just being publicly insulted for being fat and ugly. Twisted logic for sure for most people, but he was pissed. As I said, any logic or not behind what he did and how pissed he was are not mitigating factors and he needs to be punished accordingly, but that is my take on why he did what he did.
He can just told the girl she is nice to him or something like that or even punched those rude men if he was pissed because of them. Why on earth he forced kissed the girl instead if he was pissed by those men? He just as worse as those men. I truly loathe this kind of nonsense defending something like this.
 

SteveJ

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It must be a real pain to be famous, for all its attractions and advantages.
 

FujiVice

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I have sympathy for Paul Gascoignes struggles with addiction and mental health, but this is a man who once broke his wifes fingers because he was pissed off with her. There is no excuse for what he did to her time and time again. He should have done time for that.

Gazza needed help decades ago. Anyone who puts cat shit in his Dads pie and serves him it as a meal has a definite lack of judgement.
 

MrPooni

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Lot of blind judgement in this thread. We've all been on trains faced the same temptations. Wonder if you'd handle them with the same restraint as Gazza.
What the feck have I just read? Jesus Christ mate, please consider seeking some help if this is a genuine impulse of yours.
 

Melville Red

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No. They think he should be held accountable for his actions and at the same time recognising that addiction is an illness and not purely a personal weakness especially once you are addicted.

You got a (rather lenient) warning for your last ignorant and nasty post, after being given the benefit of the doubt earlier in the thread.

I suggest you wind your neck in.
Do me a favour, delete my account.
Thank you.
 
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Sandikan

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What the feck have I just read? Jesus Christ mate, please consider seeking some help if this is a genuine impulse of yours.
You needed to read on a little..the guy was clearly joking.
 

King Eric 7

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The verdict doesn't change my opinion of what happened nor the fact that the guy is a massive twat with previous convictions for battery, criminal damage and racially aggravated harassment.
 

Camilo

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The verdict doesn't change my opinion of what happened nor the fact that the guy is a massive twat with previous convictions for battery, criminal damage and racially aggravated harassment.
Yeah!! Screw the evidence! Your pride is at stake!
 

King Eric 7

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Yeah!! Screw the evidence! Your pride is at stake!
What evidence is that then? He still kissed a woman who didn't want to be kissed. The jury siding with him makes no difference to my opinion of the incident is what I am saying.
 

Camilo

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What evidence is that then? He still kissed a woman who didn't want to be kissed. The jury siding with him makes no difference to my opinion of the incident is what I am saying.
Presumably the evidence that a jury assessed and found him not guilty with?
 

Wibble

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The verdict doesn't change my opinion of what happened nor the fact that the guy is a massive twat with previous convictions for battery, criminal damage and racially aggravated harassment.
He wasn't on trial for being a massive twat. Probably lucky to get off though
 

sullydnl

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Presumably the evidence that a jury assessed and found him not guilty with?
What we know (because Gascoigne's defense openly stated this was the case) is that he kissed a woman who didn't expect to be kissed, didn't want to be kissed and was left upset as a result of Gascoigne's actions. We also know that no witnesses corroborated his claims that the woman had been insulted about her weight, which was the basis of his justification for his actions. In fact a witness told the court that she had confronted Gascoigne at the time for what she described as "sexual assault".

For sexual assault charges to stick the jury had to be certain that this was sexually motivated. Obviously, they weren't. That doesn't mean other people can't interpret the evidence differently, or draw conclusions about Gascoigne from it. That isn't "screw the evidence" as the evidence remains unchanged. As indeed do the prior convictions mentioned in the post you quoted.
 

King Eric 7

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Presumably the evidence that a jury assessed and found him not guilty with?
Oh OK. I was just checking if your previous response of "screw the evidence" was in response to some evidence you'd seen that would negate what I said earlier.
 

ROFLUTION

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Found not guilty on all charges, as far as I can read.

Can someone more knowing of the case elaborate? Does it mean that the first 4 pages of flame towards Gascoigne was pretty much unwarranted, or just that there wasn't enough evidence to charge him? Or just that being a dick under these circumstances, can't give you a sentence?

I mean if he's free of all charges, doesn't it also seem like witnesses have been involved in the court, and he hasn't done anything like sexual assault as talked about in this thread? Not defending Gazza, just trying to be critical here, as I don't know the case.
 

11101

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What evidence is that then? He still kissed a woman who didn't want to be kissed. The jury siding with him makes no difference to my opinion of the incident is what I am saying.
Yeah, just like a grandmother kisses you as a child when you don't want them to. Should we lock them up as well?
 

King Eric 7

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Yeah, just like a grandmother kisses you as a child when you don't want them to. Should we lock them up as well?
Over the top response. I did not advocate locking anyone up for kissing someone.