Mason Greenwood signs new long term deal

devilish

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It’s true though isn’t it? For all the slagging he’s getting look at all the players who have committed to the club during his time. Half of them wouldn’t have done so if some one like mourinho was still in charge
MOu played Rashy regularly and he gave McT a real shot. You don't need to dismantle a side and turn it into a relegation fighting side to give kids a shot
 

Nou_Camp99

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Great news for the club and us fans. Not so sure it's a great decision by Mason though. Boy does it hurt admitting that. :(
 

SATA

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Icing on the cake if he scores the winner tomorrow, or better still the fifth goal in a spanking 5-0 United victory
 

Drz

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MOu played Rashy regularly and he gave McT a real shot. You don't need to dismantle a side and turn it into a relegation fighting side to give kids a shot
Yea, and exactly where was Mou taking this team around Dec last year? Going to top 4 were we?
It was bottom 4 form and football. He hired a bunch of mercs and fostered a culture of distrust and bullshit in the dressing room. That football squad he assembled needed gutting.
So yes, when you have a squad of shit individuals, as in people, who are also nowhere near the best at their job, guess what you got to do? Dismantle it.
If a house is built on shit foundations, unstable ground, a rotting infrastructure, you don't go building floor after floor, you tear it down.
 

devilish

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Yea, and exactly where was Mou taking this team around Dec last year? Going to top 4 were we?
It was bottom 4 form and football. He hired a bunch of mercs and fostered a culture of distrust and bullshit in the dressing room. That football squad he assembled needed gutting.
So yes, when you have a squad of shit individuals, as in people, who are also nowhere near the best at their job, guess what you got to do? Dismantle it.
If a house is built on shit foundations, unstable ground, a rotting infrastructure, you don't go building floor after floor, you tear it down.
Were are we heading to thanks to Ole and his group of honest hardworking players who understand Manchester United? Ah yes, 12 place. This guy has taken every EPL team he managed close to the relegation zone. Great builder indeed.

The last sentence is BS btw. Most competent clubs can buy and sell players at the same time.
 

El-Manos

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Great news for the club and us fans. Not so sure it's a great decision by Mason though. Boy does it hurt admitting that. :(
At this stage of his career it does make sense to stay . He will get plenty game time which he will most likely not get anywhere else at a club of this magnitude. Pogba and de gea perhaps have reasons to leave alright but not the the young lads.
 

Drz

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Were are we heading to thanks to Ole and his group of honest hardworking players who understand Manchester United? Ah yes, 12 place. This guy has taken every EPL team he managed close to the relegation zone. Great builder indeed.

The last sentence is BS btw. Most competent clubs can buy and sell players at the same time.
A: how does that change the fact that the squad needed/ still needs to be gutted and rebuilt?

B: Our situation is not that of most clubs. So according to you Ole is taking a club that was playing championship level football, with a rotting dressing room to 12th? I'll take that over where Mou was taking us.

Ole might not be a great builder, but there was nothing to build on when he came in and at least he is not saddling the club with sh*t.
Say Ole gets the sack on this monday, whoever comes in is still going to have to gut 6 senior players from this setup to even start creating a group that can show some cohesion as a team (assuming said incumbent gets his replacements right), and said manager will get that time from me, same as Ole. Why? because we were left in an absolute sh*t state.

I'm not arguing that Ole is the best manager of all time, but I'm under no illusion as to what a mess he got himself into by accepting this job. Just like I'm under no illusion as to what still needs to be done if Ole gets the sack.

Edit: This shouldn't be on the Greenwood thread, sorry. Got side-tracked, was talking about the squad and I think Greenwood is a good addition regardless of who is in charge.
 

devilish

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A: how does that change the fact that the squad needed/ still needs to be gutted and rebuilt?

B: Our situation is not that of most clubs. So according to you Ole is taking a club that was playing championship level football, with a rotting dressing room to 12th? I'll take that over where Mou was taking us.

Ole might not be a great builder, but there was nothing to build on when he came in and at least he is not saddling the club with sh*t.
Say Ole gets the sack on this monday, whoever comes in is still going to have to gut 6 senior players from this setup to even start creating a group that can show some cohesion as a team (assuming said incumbent gets his replacements right), and said manager will get that time from me, same as Ole. Why? because we were left in an absolute sh*t state.

I'm not arguing that Ole is the best manager of all time, but I'm under no illusion as to what a mess he got himself into by accepting this job. Just like I'm under no illusion as to what still needs to be done if Ole gets the sack.
As said, top managers can easily handle a high staff turnover. Sir Alex brought 11 players in two years (1988-1989) at a time when squads were way smaller then they are now. However that meant being flexible and have a good sense of who is ready to step up and who is not. Ole genuinely believed that the kids were ready + he couldn't provide with an alternative for Longstaff. Yes, Longstaff.......let that sink in. We're paying the price for that.

I don't blame Ole of everything quite the contrary. I actually think he's yet another example of our real problem ie an board that is clueless in football. You don't bring in someone who couldn't handle Cardiff to manage United, that's silly. Having said that, if we don't accept his share of responsibility then we're as deluded as he is and Jeez the guy is A Class deluded. I never heard someone in such shit being so positive about it. The guy would probably whistle in front of the execution squad.
 

POF

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Fantastic news. He's a genuine top class talent.
 

Forevergiggs1

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It’s true though isn’t it? For all the slagging he’s getting look at all the players who have committed to the club during his time. Half of them wouldn’t have done so if some one like mourinho was still in charge
People are seeing a lot of positives with Ole in charge but you're pushing the boat out with this one.

De Gea: Didn't see a lot of clubs in for him and he'd never earn as much at another club.

Phil Jones : Riding the gravy train as he has done for the last 8 years.

Antony Martial: Can get away with doing feck all on the pitch and earn a fortune.

Marcos Rashford: At what other club can you see him earning £200k?

Juan Mata: Juan being offered a 3 (2+1)year deal he must of thought all his christmass came at once.

Axel Tuanzebe: Been at the club since he was 8. Obvious talent. Do you really think if Mou was here he wouldn't sign?

Andres Peirera: If it wasn't for United he'd be a championship player.

Mason Greenwood: Deserves his contract but since he's been at the club since he was 6 why wouldn't he sign?

Other than the 2 youngsters who've both been here at a very early age, every single one of the other players are here because they wouldn't get half of what they earn at other clubs and there's a couple or 3 who shouldn't of been given new contracts in the first place. Look for positives in other directions because here they don't exist.
 

Drz

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As said, top managers can easily handle a high staff turnover. Sir Alex brought 11 players in two years (1988-1989) at a time when squads were way smaller then they are now. However that meant being flexible and have a good sense of who is ready to step up and who is not. Ole genuinely believed that the kids were ready + he couldn't provide with an alternative for Longstaff. Yes, Longstaff.......let that sink in. We're paying the price for that.

I don't blame Ole of everything quite the contrary. I actually think he's yet another example of our real problem ie an board that is clueless in football. You don't bring in someone who couldn't handle Cardiff to manage United, that's silly. Having said that, if we don't accept his share of responsibility then we're as deluded as he is and Jeez the guy is A Class deluded. I never heard someone in such shit being so positive about it. The guy would probably whistle in front of the execution squad.
I don't necessarily disagree with you regarding the board, but I'm not good at manager picking either, I mean, I voted Zidane for replacing Mou ffs. The only name I've gotten right as a good manager since Sir Alex retired was Klopp.

Just for sake of argument: Sir Alex bought 11 players between 1988-89, yet finished 12th and 13th.
As for Longstaff, personally I think he was our second option. But neither were coming. I don't mind a manager betting on what he knows and wants, he will after all be judged on that. I also don't mind him not doing what Mourinho did as he plainly admitted: he didn't want Fred but given he was available let's just do it. If the manager is not getting a player he sees as improving us, no point in just buying crap.
I agree that as a club and under several managers now it is shocking given our need for a quality defensive midfielder that we haven't identified a whole list of players that can fit that role in what, maybe 10 years now? Because we have needed one ever since Carrick slowed down.

As for the media outings, Ole is going to be Ole, he is not going to rock the boat in public. He most certainly is not going to come out in public and say: I wanted 6 players this summer, I only got 3. Pitting himself against the board in public but having to work with them behind the scenes.

I get it though, you don't believe Ole is good enough, and I'm fine with that. Doesn't change the fact that the squad needs to be overhauled and plucking the weeds out wether done by Ole or another is not something I will criticise.
 

devilish

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I don't necessarily disagree with you regarding the board, but I'm not good at manager picking either, I mean, I voted Zidane for replacing Mou ffs. The only name I've gotten right as a good manager since Sir Alex retired was Klopp.

Just for sake of argument: Sir Alex bought 11 players between 1988-89, yet finished 12th and 13th.
As for Longstaff, personally I think he was our second option. But neither were coming. I don't mind a manager betting on what he knows and wants, he will after all be judged on that. I also don't mind him not doing what Mourinho did as he plainly admitted: he didn't want Fred but given he was available let's just do it. If the manager is not getting a player he sees as improving us, no point in just buying crap.
I agree that as a club and under several managers now it is shocking given our need for a quality defensive midfielder that we haven't identified a whole list of players that can fit that role in what, maybe 10 years now? Because we have needed one ever since Carrick slowed down.

As for the media outings, Ole is going to be Ole, he is not going to rock the boat in public. He most certainly is not going to come out in public and say: I wanted 6 players this summer, I only got 3. Pitting himself against the board in public but having to work with them behind the scenes.

I get it though, you don't believe Ole is good enough, and I'm fine with that. Doesn't change the fact that the squad needs to be overhauled and plucking the weeds out wether done by Ole or another is not something I will criticise.
Lets start from Sir Alex part. When he brought in 11 players, the idea wasn't to win the EPL title. You don't bring so many key players in and immediately expect them to do well. Sir Alex aim was to shake the team to the core, forcing the few who survived Sir Alex's clean up to take him seriously else they would be out next and to show the world (both within United and outside of it) then we mean business. You don't do that when you speak about survival of the fittest while concurrently dishing contracts to deadwood like Mata and Jesse L

Now with that out of the way lets focus on United's situation. I don't think that United will return to their best unless we do some serious restructuring. That include a Football CEO, A top DOF, a top head of recruitment and a top manager. United need to be able to handle a high staff turnover both in terms of ins and outs. We can't have a silly situation were deadwood like Jones is handled a 5 year contract because we lack the competence to handle a high staff turnover and were we start a season with no CM, no RW and no forward line. We're fecking Man United not Torquay.

Having said that, while I don't think that any manager can sort this mess alone I don't think that the situation will improve not having a manager at all. Cause that's how it feels having Ole at the wheel.
 

Drz

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Lets start from Sir Alex part. When he brought in 11 players, the idea wasn't to win the EPL title. You don't bring so many key players in and immediately expect them to do well. Sir Alex aim was to shake the team to the core, forcing the few who survived Sir Alex's clean up to take him seriously else they would be out next and to show the world (both within United and outside of it) then we mean business. You don't do that when you speak about survival of the fittest while concurrently dishing contracts to deadwood like Mata and Jesse L

Now with that out of the way lets focus on United's situation. I don't think that United will return to their best unless we do some serious restructuring. That include a Football CEO, A top DOF, a top head of recruitment and a top manager. United need to be able to handle a high staff turnover both in terms of ins and outs. We can't have a silly situation were deadwood like Jones is handled a 5 year contract because we lack the competence to handle a high staff turnover and were we start a season with no CM, no RW and no forward line. We're fecking Man United not Torquay.

Having said that, while I don't think that any manager can sort this mess alone I don't think that the situation will improve not having a manager at all. Cause that's how it feels having Ole at the wheel.
I respectfully disagree with you on a few matters.
Whilst I believe Woodward deserves the sack for the managers he chose fit to hire, and his lack of knowledge regarding the football side of things, I don't have blind faith in the DOF model.
I think the responsibilities we'd like to attribute to a DOF should be shared between the money man and the football manager at the club, they need to have a shared vision of the type of football they should be playing short term with what you currently have and long term with what you plan to do, and decide which areas to allocate ressources to in priority.

Any manager has to have a shared vision with what is happening in the academy, otherwise that is a ressource pool he can't draw on if there are any good elements in it, so his ultimate vision has to be long term, he can't just be the first team coach because decision on contracts have to be made knowing which players can still serve the long term vision on and off the pitch. With a DOF I just see a middle man which will dilute responsibility with potential in-fighting between who the 1st team coach sees as fit to retain, and who the DOF is buddy-buddy with.

Your reservations on Ole are understandable, but again dismantling the rotting squad and so far buying the players we have this window are not things the club or the current manager I feel got wrong. I don't mind getting someone that can do it better and that have us playing better even if I have no knowledge of who that is.
 

devilish

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I respectfully disagree with you on a few matters.
Whilst I believe Woodward deserves the sack for the managers he chose fit to hire, and his lack of knowledge regarding the football side of things, I don't have blind faith in the DOF model.
I think the responsibilities we'd like to attribute to a DOF should be shared between the money man and the football manager at the club, they need to have a shared vision of the type of football they should be playing short term with what you currently have and long term with what you plan to do, and decide which areas to allocate ressources to in priority.

Any manager has to have a shared vision with what is happening in the academy, otherwise that is a ressource pool he can't draw on if there are any good elements in it, so his ultimate vision has to be long term, he can't just be the first team coach because decision on contracts have to be made knowing which players can still serve the long term vision on and off the pitch. With a DOF I just see a middle man which will dilute responsibility with potential in-fighting between who the 1st team coach sees as fit to retain, and who the DOF is buddy-buddy with.

Your reservations on Ole are understandable, but again dismantling the rotting squad and so far buying the players we have this window are not things the club or the current manager I feel got wrong. I don't mind getting someone that can do it better and that have us playing better even if I have no knowledge of who that is.
The DOF/football men at board level is something most successful clubs are now using. Surely there is merit in that system else no one would be using it.

Also transfers are usually judged as successful on the long term. I can mention many players who did exceptionally well at short term and who are not considered great buys anymore. Bailly, ADM, Matic, Mata and Ibra to mention some of them. So it will take us years to properly judge whether Ole's signings are successful or not.

What we can judge is his tactics and his vision. The former seem non existent while buying expensive local talent on ridiculous money might sound a safer way of doing business but isn't sustainable. We can't keep sorting each position with 50m-80m a pop.
 

Drz

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The DOF/football men at board level is something most successful clubs are now using. Surely there is merit in that system else no one would be using it.

Also transfers are usually judged as successful on the long term. I can mention many players who did exceptionally well at short term and who are not considered great buys anymore. Bailly, ADM, Matic, Mata and Ibra to mention some of them. So it will take us years to properly judge whether Ole's signings are successful or not.

What we can judge is his tactics and his vision. The former seem non existent while buying expensive local talent on ridiculous money might sound a safer way of doing business but isn't sustainable. We can't keep sorting each position with 50m-80m a pop.
Let's see what happens :) as Ban says above we are derailing this thread. Cheers.
 

Alabaster Codify7

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Good, ideally he'd be on loan cutting his teeth but Ole had other plans. 15mins here and there in a struggling team isn't gonna much for his mental or footballing development.
 

LJJT

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People are seeing a lot of positives with Ole in charge but you're pushing the boat out with this one.

De Gea: Didn't see a lot of clubs in for him and he'd never earn as much at another club.

Phil Jones : Riding the gravy train as he has done for the last 8 years.

Antony Martial: Can get away with doing feck all on the pitch and earn a fortune.

Marcos Rashford: At what other club can you see him earning £200k?

Juan Mata: Juan being offered a 3 (2+1)year deal he must of thought all his christmass came at once.

Axel Tuanzebe: Been at the club since he was 8. Obvious talent. Do you really think if Mou was here he wouldn't sign?

Andres Peirera: If it wasn't for United he'd be a championship player.

Mason Greenwood: Deserves his contract but since he's been at the club since he was 6 why wouldn't he sign?

Other than the 2 youngsters who've both been here at a very early age, every single one of the other players are here because they wouldn't get half of what they earn at other clubs and there's a couple or 3 who shouldn't of been given new contracts in the first place. Look for positives in other directions because here they don't exist.
Understand your point but there would have been outrage if 4 or 5 of the 8 listed hadn’t signed on and left for free. If everyone is going to bash ole when it’s going shit and say he’s clueless on the pitch then it’s only fair he has some credit for the positives,
 

devilish

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Understand your point but there would have been outrage if 4 or 5 of the 8 listed hadn’t signed on and left for free. If everyone is going to bash ole when it’s going shit and say he’s clueless on the pitch then it’s only fair he has some credit for the positives,
Maguire was Mou's target, I assume we've been following him for at least 1.5 years so we knew what the guy could offer. Considering that we've been starving for a top quality RB, we had probably kept close tabs on AWB as well (ie EPL proven etc). James on the other hand came on Giggs recommendation. Ryan even made an interview on MUTV about it saying he never saw a faster player in all his career. So I don't really buy this Ole buy good players theory.

On the other hand I don't blame most of the contract renewals on him either.

a- He's not the one sitting down with the players and negotiating the deals
b- United has struggled BIG TIME in going past the 3-4 signings per summer transfer. United had been accused of naive,slow and indecisive in terms of buying players while concurrently asking ridiculous amounts of money for their deadwood. That has a domino effect were we either give players we don't want a contract or we risk having a situation when we start the season with serious structural flaws within the team (ex no CM, no RW and no forward line)

In reality, the manager is nowadays a glorified head coach whose job is mostly limited on tactics and the day to day running of the squad. That's something Mou and Pochs both agree upon. Decisions are taken elsewhere, either by a DOF (Campos words) or in United's case.....well........Woodward? Judge?
 

stu_1992

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Good news to see this contract sorted, along with Williams too. Get Gomes signed up and hopefully we see the continued development of all three.
 

pacifictheme

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It’s true though isn’t it? For all the slagging he’s getting look at all the players who have committed to the club during his time. Half of them wouldn’t have done so if some one like mourinho was still in charge
Really though?
 

LJJT

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Maguire was Mou's target, I assume we've been following him for at least 1.5 years so we knew what the guy could offer. Considering that we've been starving for a top quality RB, we had probably kept close tabs on AWB as well (ie EPL proven etc). James on the other hand came on Giggs recommendation. Ryan even made an interview on MUTV about it saying he never saw a faster player in all his career. So I don't really buy this Ole buy good players theory.

On the other hand I don't blame most of the contract renewals on him either.

a- He's not the one sitting down with the players and negotiating the deals
b- United has struggled BIG TIME in going past the 3-4 signings per summer transfer. United had been accused of naive,slow and indecisive in terms of buying players while concurrently asking ridiculous amounts of money for their deadwood. That has a domino effect were we either give players we don't want a contract or we risk having a situation when we start the season with serious structural flaws within the team (ex no CM, no RW and no forward line)

In reality, the manager is nowadays a glorified head coach whose job is mostly limited on tactics and the day to day running of the squad. That's something Mou and Pochs both agree upon. Decisions are taken elsewhere, either by a DOF (Campos words) or in United's case.....well........Woodward? Judge?
I never said anything about Maguire or new signings. Just making the point that since Oles been in charge I think he’s been pivotal in several of the players extending their contracts, something I don’t think would have happened with Jose cos he was a bell end
 

devilish

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I never said anything about Maguire or new signings. Just making the point that since Oles been in charge I think he’s been pivotal in several of the players extending their contracts, something I don’t think would have happened with Jose cos he was a bell end
I think they would. I mean we gave some crazy salaries or terms out there to the likes of DDG, Martial, Jones, Mata and Rashford. The reason being that the club is so incompetent on the transfer market that they would rather keep players who are clearly not good enough for the salary given then letting them go and then having to negotiate with other players to have them replaced. We all know what happened when United put their foot down and refused to be held at ransom. Herrera, Lukaku and Sanchez were allowed to leave and they weren't replaced.
 

LJJT

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I think they would. I mean we gave some crazy salaries or terms out there to the likes of DDG, Martial, Jones, Mata and Rashford. The reason being that the club is so incompetent on the transfer market that they would rather keep players who are clearly not good enough for the salary given then letting them go and then having to negotiate with other players to have them replaced. We all know what happened when United put their foot down and refused to be held at ransom. Herrera, Lukaku and Sanchez were allowed to leave and they weren't replaced.
Well it’s a pointless argument as we will never know. Think it’s becoming clear Lukaku and Sanchez where let go cos they where bad for the dressing room. One could argue had ole arrived a few months earlier he maybe could have saved the Herrera situation. I don’t think ole has anything to do with the wages they are offered though. By the way no one actually knows what money they are on it’s all paper talk
 

devilish

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Well it’s a pointless argument as we will never know. Think it’s becoming clear Lukaku and Sanchez where let go cos they where bad for the dressing room. One could argue had ole arrived a few months earlier he maybe could have saved the Herrera situation. I don’t think ole has anything to do with the wages they are offered though. By the way no one actually knows what money they are on it’s all paper talk
I think all our managers are facing a situation where they either work with what he has or risk, we'll, starting the season with glaring holes inside his team.
 

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Great more contracts for players who can't score in the premiership