Will Ole last beyond his next 3 games?

[FerociousCorgis]

You don't get relegated in November. Even if all of the "TopTopReds" on this threads wildest dreams come true, we lose to Liverpool, Norwich, Bournemouth & Chelsea and we end up bottom, Ole won't be fired yet and rightly so. If we're still in the relegation places at the end of January then maybe a managerial change will be justified. Have some patience for fecks sake. You get the same trophy for 15th that you do for 5th.

this is just ridiculous. If ole has us in relegation zone this far into the year his ass better be gone. You get the same trophy for 15th as 5th? Have fun getting class players to sign for us next season with the promise of Ole and his incredible genius guiding us to 15th. Anyone think Sancho is going to be salivating at the mouth with that prospect? Or that Pogba will stay and fight for a top half finish with Ole? FFS it is embarrassing how far standards have fallen just because of who Ole was as a player. Where have the standards gone with this club? Freaking Lampard has chelsea looking better and they have a transfer ban.

 

[fps]

He is a tremendous player on his day. But the lack of consistency to me tells of a player that's not wanting to be here. It's one of the biggest hypocracies Ole has engaged in since coming to the the club: talking up Manchester United's values and how players need to fight for the shirt and feel honored to wear the badge. Not within a few weeks of the season ending Paul's out there talking about the new challenge, his agent and his brothers then spending the entire summer echoing it.

How can Ole justify it? Am I supposed to believe Ole's words that Paul wants to be here or the ones coming out of the lad's own mouth and his close family?

Even more ironically we turned down the likes of Eriksen and Dybala for not wanting to be a Man United player enough. So what makes Paul the exception? Is it like Pereira and Marcus, the fact that he's got a pet name and history from time in the academy?

I more than partly agree. I don't think it's ironic we're turning down those other players, I think it's learning the lessons of the big money signing. Pogba is a massive wage and profile, and he hasn't justified being one of *those* players on the mega money who you build a team around. United are struggling without him but if he wasn't there someone else would be the midfield leader and I reckon I'd rather take my chances on someone else.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Be very surprised if he does. For all the talk how you are a bad fan if you think he has done bad the simple fact is since the purple patch we have got 17 points in 17 premier league games. Worse than Newcastle in the same aamount of games. That cannot be defended.

I felt for Ole in the summer, 3 in to improve our defence while letting our attack and midfield get worse always meant we would be fecked this season. I felt bad as I assumed Ed and Glazers forced it on him but taking Ole at his word which is all you can reasonably do then it was his decision to make both our midfield and attack worse. For that the performances and results have to be put on him. It was clear to see we needed better midfielders and an attacker to replace Lukaku but he said we would cope without. That decision has been his major downfall and why if he does get sacked it won't be a knee jerk reaction. It will simply be the decision that has to be made because let's be honest he is lucky he is even still here.

Disclaimer even after all I said being Ed the glazers etc are still majorly to blame but based on the info OLE has given the fans he dug his own grave it seems.

Overall though Glazers and Ed more to blame but that is another thing entirely and is not really relevant to the for or against Ole staying on as manager conversation.

 

[Jibbs]

Today sky sports did a feature,
Are Manchester United the old Liverpool of the 1990s?

The similarities are uncanny, but in that article, they mentioned a quote of Sir Alex about Klopp.

"You can see Jurgen Klopp's dedication on the sideline, I'm convinced his work in training is similar," Ferguson added in 2016. "He's a strong personality. That's absolutely vital at a big club. I'm worried about him because the one thing United don't want is Liverpool to get above us."

The thing that struck me most was, Fergie mentioning Klopp is a strong personality. This I am afraid, Ole is not, and we need a very strong personality as manager at United, Mourinho was, but he was not fully backed. Until we find somebody like that for the club, United will struggle.

 

[martinhl]

Is there a common denominator for success in professional football.

 

[croadyman]

True fan here.

Whether you like the manager or not, wanting Liverpool to beat us at Old Trafford is absurd.

Its different if you think they will beat us but wanting to get beat?

We are fans, Liverpool are the biggest rivals, they could win the title. Why on earth would you want them to win?

Yeah unfortunately I do see us getting beat on Sunday,however much as I hate the fact we have no style of play I just cannot ever want Liverpool to beat us in any game.

 

[That_Bloke]

Both Norwich and Bournemouth have a rather naive approach to their tactics that might be just what we need to grab a couple of scrappy wins (or 4 points from possible six). This may see us climb a few positions on the PL table and make Woodward hesitant to swing the axe. But he will be doing nothing more than delaying the inevitable. Solskjaer is a rigid coach who places a lot of value in the man-management side of the managerial job. He put a lot of stock into "the young & hungry lads who will run their socks off for the badge" without caring much about the fact that Pogba represents more than half of our creativity and that we were a Martial injury away from changing roles to all the "3" and the "1" in his preferred 4231. And now we have them both injured, we're struggling to create chances, we're two points off relegation and the whole squad looks befuddled, disillusioned and devoid of all confidence. Ain't reality a bitch?

We've been there before with Moyes: Everyone and their dog could tell you that he was clearly out of his depth by the end of November/early December of 2013. Especially when a good run of games that should have boosted our spirits ended abruptly with two draws away at Cardiff and Spurs (lucky not to lose at The Lane) and back to back home defeats at the hands of the mighty Everton and Newcastle. Yet, we managed to have a good December overall with wins against cannon fodder and this bought Moyes more time. To achieve what exactly, no one knows, besides Woodward. Perhaps the feeble hope of getting into top-four when it was more than obvious that the team was under coached, directionless and hoping that Januzaj would prove to be our lord and saviour.

We're in a similar position now but with even worse players. Solskjaer seems to be bereft of any good ideas tactically because he clearly didn't expect us to perform so badly. Furthermore, running players to the ground in the summer may lead to fatigue and muscle injuries which is why you should be careful when you decide to trim down the squad by leaving very few experienced players in it. Heavy rotation by including the academy players is good but it can be successful only when a reliable system is already set in place and the roles between the players can be distinguished. Otherwise, you're left with a few positive things to utter in the pressers and your good intentions. Words that at some point not even you believe while good intentions can't buy you more time when there's nothing tangible to show for. The only difference is that Solskjaer hasn't said anything like "we aspire to be like City" or that "even Fergie would struggle with this side" yet (although some top reds are doing this work for him).

In the end, his assessment of the squad's abilities failed miserably. Blame Woodward all you like, it is a fact right in front of your eyes. As if the "United way" alone would turn the youngsters and the local lads into game-changers and as if giving both Martial/Rashford new lucrative deals would suddenly make them senior players ready to carry the team on their shoulders. Now, he's resorted to more cautious tactics, he's desperately searching for experience and guidance on the pitch to the likes of Mata, Matic and Young and he's trying to convince the whole world that what we're watching on the pitch is "normal". Oh, and we're linked with 30+ footballers to save the day for us.

There's no rebuilding here, only a continuous fall from grace. It's sad that a club legend can't fix it but it's the reality of things. And not even two wins against extremely poor sides will probably change that. Keeping him until the end of the season (or more) can only help our fanbase achieve one thing: slowly and steadily accept mediocrity and finally embrace it. And to think that we used to laugh at Arsenal and their 4th place trophy.

That's an excellent post. Props to you.

 

[Eric7C]

Both Norwich and Bournemouth have a rather naive approach to their tactics that might be just what we need to grab a couple of scrappy wins (or 4 points from possible six). This may see us climb a few positions on the PL table and make Woodward hesitant to swing the axe. But he will be doing nothing more than delaying the inevitable. Solskjaer is a rigid coach who places a lot of value in the man-management side of the managerial job. He put a lot of stock into "the young & hungry lads who will run their socks off for the badge" without caring much about the fact that Pogba represents more than half of our creativity and that we were a Martial injury away from changing roles to all the "3" and the "1" in his preferred 4231. And now we have them both injured, we're struggling to create chances, we're two points off relegation and the whole squad looks befuddled, disillusioned and devoid of all confidence. Ain't reality a bitch?

We've been there before with Moyes: Everyone and their dog could tell you that he was clearly out of his depth by the end of November/early December of 2013. Especially when a good run of games that should have boosted our spirits ended abruptly with two draws away at Cardiff and Spurs (lucky not to lose at The Lane) and back to back home defeats at the hands of the mighty Everton and Newcastle. Yet, we managed to have a good December overall with wins against cannon fodder and this bought Moyes more time. To achieve what exactly, no one knows, besides Woodward. Perhaps the feeble hope of getting into top-four when it was more than obvious that the team was under coached, directionless and hoping that Januzaj would prove to be our lord and saviour.

We're in a similar position now but with even worse players. Solskjaer seems to be bereft of any good ideas tactically because he clearly didn't expect us to perform so badly. Furthermore, running players to the ground in the summer may lead to fatigue and muscle injuries which is why you should be careful when you decide to trim down the squad by leaving very few experienced players in it. Heavy rotation by including the academy players is good but it can be successful only when a reliable system is already set in place and the roles between the players can be distinguished. Otherwise, you're left with a few positive things to utter in the pressers and your good intentions. Words that at some point not even you believe while good intentions can't buy you more time when there's nothing tangible to show for. The only difference is that Solskjaer hasn't said anything like "we aspire to be like City" or that "even Fergie would struggle with this side" yet (although some top reds are doing this work for him).

In the end, his assessment of the squad's abilities failed miserably. Blame Woodward all you like, it is a fact right in front of your eyes. As if the "United way" alone would turn the youngsters and the local lads into game-changers and as if giving both Martial/Rashford new lucrative deals would suddenly make them senior players ready to carry the team on their shoulders. Now, he's resorted to more cautious tactics, he's desperately searching for experience and guidance on the pitch to the likes of Mata, Matic and Young and he's trying to convince the whole world that what we're watching on the pitch is "normal". Oh, and we're linked with 30+ footballers to save the day for us.

There's no rebuilding here, only a continuous fall from grace. It's sad that a club legend can't fix it but it's the reality of things. And not even two wins against extremely poor sides will probably change that. Keeping him until the end of the season (or more) can only help our fanbase achieve one thing: slowly and steadily accept mediocrity and finally embrace it. And to think that we used to laugh at Arsenal and their 4th place trophy.

Excellent.

 

[Cassidy]

You can say I told you so after the game, but whenever the Caf does the whole doom and gloom "we're going to get butchered" routine it tends to end up as a fairly decent performance as our players do react well when theirs backs are against the wall. I'll also echo what I said before Arsenal when the forum were expecting us to get fecked, we tend to play well against teams that go for us but we struggle hugely when teams sit back and defend deep in numbers. Liverpool won't do that, they'll play into our hands by trying to actually dominate the game.

Anyway, as for Ole he won't be being sacked anytime soon unless we drop down into the relegation places imo. I think the club have prepared themselves for a bumpy ride this season as they've accepted that the squad is dogshit (which it is). If Ole has us in relegation places then that's a different matter.

We'll be in the relegation spots pretty soon

 

[RedSky]

We'll be in the relegation spots pretty soon

I had a dream last night that we beat Liverpool with a Greenwood last minute winner and it sparked a come back. Granted, I was playing for United and bossed the midfield but I feel like this was an omen of things to come.

 

[Cassidy]

I had a dream last night that we beat Liverpool with a Greenwood last minute winner and it sparked a come back. Granted, I was playing for United and bossed the midfield but I feel like this was an omen of things to come.

I hope it comes to past, even with you in the midfield

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

The right man being available will be dependent on the timing of his sacking, so I'd disagree there.

Not really,even if the right mans not available we will probably still sack him and make Phelan the caretaker manager until the end of the season.If we finish outside the top 5,then Ole will anyway have to be replaced,even if our 1st choice isn’t available...

 

[Foxbatt]

Ed has been adamant that it's the manager who makes the decision in selecting the players we buy.
So it's hard to believe that if Ole had wanted a player who is better than we have he would have refused especially if it was not very expensive.
There are plenty of players around who are better than what we have yet who are not that expensive but Ole didn't want them.

 

[VP89]

Not really,even if the right mans not available we will probably still sack him and make Phelan the caretaker manager until the end of the season.If we finish outside the top 5,then Ole will anyway have to be replaced,even if our 1st choice isn’t available...

If Ole goes rest assured it will be a big name like Allegri. Not Phelan

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

If Ole goes rest assured it will be a big name like Allegri. Not Phelan

Ofcourse,but if we feel that Allegris not the right man,then we might appoint Phelan as caretaker until the end of the season before then signing a full time manager....

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Is there a common denominator for success in professional football.

No but there's a common demoninator for failure and we just about tick all the boxes.

 

[redshaw]

1 point from from Norwich and Bournemouth would see him sacked I reckon.

Ole and the club hope to crawl to Jan to solve the catastrophe of a half done summer window.

 

[tonnas]

depends, he need to win 2, if not he is out.

 

[Kostov]

He has to win today. I don’t give a feck about injuries and that it is Liverpool. He has made so many stupid decisions and mistakes, it’s time he proves why he shouldn’t be sacked. It’s gone that far for me. To be frank I have zero confidence in him.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Ofcourse,but if we feel that Allegris not the right man,then we might appoint Phelan as caretaker until the end of the season before then signing a full time manager....

Proven manager who won a lot in his career, not too old and not too young, loved by players, excellent tactician, plays tactical football. We don't want him because he doesn't play free flowing super attacking football. Only in United world.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

If Ole goes rest assured it will be a big name like Allegri. Not Phelan

As pointed out by other posters, if Ole does go the only way Allegri (or any other so called top manager) would come in is if he's offered a 3 year contract. The perfect scenario would be to bring him in as interim and if he steadies the ship then give him a contract at the end of the season but what's the chances?

Which is why I could see Phelan coming in as interim. If that does happen pray to whatever God you want he doesn't have a purple patch even if it is highly unlikely.

State of affairs FFS.

 

[lsd]

Proven manager who won a lot in his career, not too old and not too young, loved by players, excellent tactician, plays tactical football. We don't want him because he doesn't play free flowing super attacking football. Only in United world.

Yes that's right his football is terrible to watch and there has been nothing worse than watching the boring football served up by LVG and Mourinho the past five years .

Football is a game that is meant to be enjoyed by those playing it and watching it .

United have always had a reputation for playing entertaining football and I wouldn't swap that for anything.

I can take not winning so long as we play attacking football the fact we haven't been winning or playing good football has made life post Fergie horrible for United fans.

We need to stop this and the best way to get back to the top is to remember who we are and what helped us win . That's not the dross served up by Mourinho or Allegri .

We are not Chelsea we are United

 

[VP89]

As pointed out by other posters, if Ole does go the only way Allegri (or any other so called top manager) would come in is if he's offered a 3 year contract. The perfect scenario would be to bring him in as interim and if he steadies the ship then give him a contract at the end of the season but what's the chances?

Which is why I could see Phelan coming in as interim. If that does happen pray to whatever God you want he doesn't have a purple patch even if it is highly unlikely.

State of affairs FFS.

What's wrong with giving Allegri a 3 year deal? It's going to be mountains better than dealing with Ole on a 3 year deal.

 

[Revaulx]

If Ole goes rest assured it will be a big name like Allegri. Not Phelan

Well I hope you’re right, but Ed’s latest leaks don’t point that way. He’s desperately sexing up the success of the latest recruitment “strategy” in order to prove that the club is heading in the right direction. Hiring a foreign big name won’t fit in with this at all. Phelan is a local lad who “gets” the club.

I’ve got a horrid feeling we’re going to end up with Southgate.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

What's wrong with giving Allegri a 3 year deal? It's going to be mountains better than dealing with Ole on a 3 year deal.

Because we can't keep bringing managers in, giving them years of contracts only for them to be bought out because they aren't taking us in the right direction, especially the way the club is being run at the minute. It's just a recipe for disaster. It's time we actually started thinking about our managerial appointments instead of jumping in the deep end.

Ole isn't the man to take us forward, I think that's pretty obvious but if the club did bring in Allegri on a 3 year contract then once again we'll have done another 180 in playing styles. Bringing in Allegri as interim would be perfect. He would steady the ship which needs to happen before the next manager is brought in so there is some resemblence of a football team for him to work with but as a 3 year manager no thanks. I've already lived through LVG and Mous style of play. I couldn't handle another few years of let's not lose football even if we were winning things.

Is he better than Ole as a manager? Of course he is but so are about 20 others out there who I feel would be a better fit for United.

 

[VP89]

Because we can't keep bringing managers in, giving them years of contracts only for them to be bought out because they aren't taking us in the right direction, especially the way the club is being run at the minute. It's just a recipe for disaster. It's time we actually started thinking about our managerial appointments instead of jumping in the deep end.

Ole isn't the man to take us forward, I think that's pretty obvious but if the club did bring in Allegri on a 3 year contract then once again we'll have done another 180 in playing styles. Bringing in Allegri as interim would be perfect. He would steady the ship which needs to happen before the next manager is brought in so there is some resemblence of a football team for him to work with but as a 3 year manager no thanks. I've already lived through LVG and Mous style of play. I couldn't handle another few years of let's not lose football even if we were winning things.

When you say it's a 180 on playing style, that's going to happen regardless. We don't have a playing style under Ole. Whenever we change the manager it will be a 180. Whilst I agree on a preference for Allegri to be caretaker, I don't think he's a bad manager to steer us to relevancy and install a winning mentality over 3 years. Just because Mourinho didn't work out, doesn't mean we should ditch the opportunity to try proven managers. They aren't all the same and besides, we were closest to the top under Jose whether we like it or not.

Is he better than Ole as a manager? Of course he is but so are about 20 others out there who I feel would be a better fit for United.

Can you name 5 available? Or that would be available come summer?

 

[Full bodied red]

The original question....

Three wins, then of course he stays
Three defeats, then of course he goes

Even if we beat 'Pool today but then lose to either or both of Norwich and Bournmouth - reckon he's a goner, sadly.

And I say ' sadly ' not because of any great love for OGS ( had it at first, but now totally gone ) but because it's yet another step along our path to obscurity and irrelevance.

 

[Rolandofgilead]

Ole won’t last past tomorrow morning I shouldn’t think.

We will likely get beat convincingly today and then you’ll all get what you want and ole will get sacked in the morning, then we’ll hire the latest flavour of the month, when we still offer up mediocre performances you will all turn on him and the cycle will repeat again.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

When you say it's a 180 on playing style, that's going to happen regardless. We don't have a playing style under Ole. Whenever we change the manager it will be a 180. Whilst I agree on a preference for Allegri to be caretaker, I don't think he's a bad manager to steer us to relevancy and install a winning mentality over 3 years. Just because Mourinho didn't work out, doesn't mean we should ditch the opportunity to try proven managers. They aren't all the same and besides, we were closest to the top under Jose whether we like it or not.



Can you name 5 available? Or that would be available come summer?

I think a more sensible route would be to go for managers who more or less have the same philosophy on how they want to play football. One of the reasons we've wasted so much money and time is because we've had different styles which in turn means different type of players, which in turn means players being shipped out because they don't fit the new managers philosophy. Or even worse keeping players who don't fit.

Whether by default or basically because they're all out of options we now seem to have some sort of plan in place but unfortunately Ole isn't the man to implement it. The plan itself I don't have a problem with if it means playing on the front foot but if Allegri gets a 3 year contract then that plan is out the window. We have to start being consistent in our decisions even if we do get things wrong and that means managers of similar philosophy.

Candidates are always the same faces. Poch, Naglesman, Tuchel, Ten Hag, Eddie Howe. I'm not mentioning the obvious managers just to be lazy but these are the sort of managers we should be after. If we got one and he fails then we should be going for another of similar pedigree or else we'll be in the wilderness for a long time to come.

Who's going to be available? Impossible to say but that doesn't mean to say we give Allegri a 3 year deal just because he's available instead of waiting to see if any better options appear.

 

[kouroux]

The original question....

Three wins, then of course he stays
Three defeats, then of course he goes

Even if we beat 'Pool today but then lose to either or both of Norwich and Bournmouth - reckon he's a goner, sadly.

And I say ' sadly ' not because of any great love for OGS ( had it at first, but now totally gone ) but because it's yet another step along our path to obscurity and irrelevance.

3 defeats and he still stays.

 

[Tom Cato]

As long as we don't start losing 4-0, Ole will be safe. All the matches are VERY even. MUFC has the best 'expected goals against' ratio in the EPL (indicating that if you're going to struggle to score on someone, its Manchester United). Its our offense thats dead. We've had so many important players out for a long time. Let's see if there is any fire in the lads today.

Either way, if people are expecting a Liverpool domination, you'll probably be surprised. MUFC is third in possession this season. We keep the ball..a lot. So does Liverpool and Man C above us in that metric. This has the potential to be a very evenly matched game. Man I'm going to love AWB tackle left and right today. HYPE!

 

[JMack1234]

Maybe I'm being a bit gullible but I think Ed is going to move heaven and earth to stick by Ole.

He know if Ole goes then he is in massive trouble and he is clearly feeling sore about a lot of the criticism that is coming his way. His only hope is to try and stick by Ole and pray that this plan comes off.

May god help us.

 

[KirkDuyt]

I got this feeling that you lot will beat pool. Dunno why. That will give him a lot of new credit.

Wise words. That Dirkkuyt fella seems like he knows his stuff.

 

[martinhl]

No but there's a common demoninator for failure and we just about tick all the boxes.

What fascinates supporter's about Utd.

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

Proven manager who won a lot in his career, not too old and not too young, loved by players, excellent tactician, plays tactical football. We don't want him because he doesn't play free flowing super attacking football. Only in United world.

He would be my 2nd choice.Pochettinos my first choice....If Pochettinos not available,then I would give Allegri the job tomorrow....

 

[Member 60376]

Wise words. That Dirkkuyt fella seems like he knows his stuff.

 

[ArjenIsM3]

He would be my 2nd choice.Pochettinos my first choice....If Pochettinos not available,then I would give Allegri the job tomorrow....

Allegri.. ffs.

 

[NJM78]

Can't win away and now four away games on the spin. Hopefully he will gone soon enough.

 

[wolvored]

I desperately wanted him to succeed, but hes way out of his depth. Get a manager in who has proven he knows how to win in the premier. Howe Pocc or Rodgers will all do better than thih

 

[The_Midfielder]

We will win the next 2.. so he stays