Ole & United vs. Frank & Chelsea: who will have the better season?

amolbhatia50k

Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off
Joined
Nov 8, 2002
Messages
95,337
Location
india
We will have the better season IMO. Ole is out of his depth, should never have had the job. Look at the way both sides play right now, only one is showing signs of what the manager wants, and it isnt Utd
Exactly.

I'm actually enjoying watching Chelsea btw which is something I'm never able to say. The short passing and the intensity off the ball has been great to watch.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,537
Nah, Ole just needs 5 more years to build his team and any losses during the rebuild is not his fault.
In the mean time lets hope we can stop Norwich.
 

ayushreddevil9

Foootball hinders the adrenaline of transfers.
Joined
Jul 11, 2015
Messages
10,237
Said it before. There were clear signs of progressive football Chelsea right from the beginning of the season but then there were some posters here creaming themselves over the 4-0.

Clearly shows that you don't need a transfer window to make a team play football.
 

Crashoutcassius

Full Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2013
Messages
10,295
Location
playa del carmen
Said it before. There were clear signs of progressive football Chelsea right from the beginning of the season but then there were some posters here creaming themselves over the 4-0.

Clearly shows that you don't need a transfer window to make a team play football.
I'll prob wait until end of season before praising lampard. He did a grand job at derby and has a squad that should comfortably be in top 4
 

Deglobalise Football

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 24, 2019
Messages
46
Supports
Harlepool United
I'll prob wait until end of season before praising lampard. He did a grand job at derby and has a squad that should comfortably be in top 4
I agree with waiting until the end of the season to judge Lampard. To be honest since he's fresh off his coaching badges (unlike Ole), you really need to wait several seasons before doing so.

But he did not do a grand job at Derby. He did an average job. Not at all badly, not particularly well. Very, very on par.

Here's a list of 5 seasons Derby had before Lampard finished 6th.


2013–14 46 25 10 11 84 52 85 3rd
2014–15 46 21 14 11 85 56 77 8th
2015–16 46 21 15 10 66 43 78 5th
2016–17 46 18 13 15 54 50 67 9th
2017–18 46 20 15 11 69 48 75 6th
2018–19 46 20 14 12 69 54 74 6th (Lampard's season)

As you can see, he did an okay job at a very well run and stable club. Nothing special. As someone who watched a lot of Derby's football, neither was their style of play. It was more than functional, but less than exciting.
 

Dancfc

Full Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2016
Messages
7,392
Supports
Chelsea
I agree with waiting until the end of the season to judge Lampard. To be honest since he's fresh off his coaching badges (unlike Ole), you really need to wait several seasons before doing so.

But he did not do a grand job at Derby. He did an average job. Not at all badly, not particularly well. Very, very on par.

Here's a list of 5 seasons Derby had before Lampard finished 6th.


2013–14 46 25 10 11 84 52 85 3rd
2014–15 46 21 14 11 85 56 77 8th
2015–16 46 21 15 10 66 43 78 5th
2016–17 46 18 13 15 54 50 67 9th
2017–18 46 20 15 11 69 48 75 6th
2018–19 46 20 14 12 69 54 74 6th (Lampard's season)

As you can see, he did an okay job at a very well run and stable club. Nothing special. As someone who watched a lot of Derby's football, neither was their style of play. It was more than functional, but less than exciting.
On face value I'd agree but given the challenges he faced I'd say he did very well to maintain their league position.

He took over from Rowett who makes Pulisball look like peak time Barca. He also had one of the oldest squads in the league. The fact he changed the style, reduced the average age while maintaining their league position is a very good job in my book, such a change like that almost always maen's short term decline.
 

Crashoutcassius

Full Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2013
Messages
10,295
Location
playa del carmen
I agree with waiting until the end of the season to judge Lampard. To be honest since he's fresh off his coaching badges (unlike Ole), you really need to wait several seasons before doing so.

But he did not do a grand job at Derby. He did an average job. Not at all badly, not particularly well. Very, very on par.

Here's a list of 5 seasons Derby had before Lampard finished 6th.


2013–14 46 25 10 11 84 52 85 3rd
2014–15 46 21 14 11 85 56 77 8th
2015–16 46 21 15 10 66 43 78 5th
2016–17 46 18 13 15 54 50 67 9th
2017–18 46 20 15 11 69 48 75 6th
2018–19 46 20 14 12 69 54 74 6th (Lampard's season)

As you can see, he did an okay job at a very well run and stable club. Nothing special. As someone who watched a lot of Derby's football, neither was their style of play. It was more than functional, but less than exciting.
Sorry - grand just means average in Dublinese
 

bonothom

Full Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Messages
843
Chelsea going well again. Their team might be defensively weak but they can bang the goals in.
 

Megadrive Man

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 29, 2019
Messages
367
Supports
Liverpool
Said it before. There were clear signs of progressive football Chelsea right from the beginning of the season but then there were some posters here creaming themselves over the 4-0.

Clearly shows that you don't need a transfer window to make a team play football.
I said it at the time, but that 4-0 at Old Trafford was one of the weirdest results I've ever seen. You could see that Chelsea were miles ahead of Chelsea.
 

LJJT

Full Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2010
Messages
1,536
Location
North West
This place is comical. Lampard is in his honeymoon phase still just like Ole was in his first 3 months. Lampards taken on a far more complete, well rounded squad and transfer ban and injuries have limited a lot of decisions he’s had to make cos they’ve been made for him. Everyone creaming themselves over how well Lampard is doing vs how Oles doing need to chill out a bit and see how things are looking in a few months time.
 

BridgeBanter

Full Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
378
Supports
Chelsea
I think people look at Chelsea's squad too much and away from the influence that Lampard has with the players at his disposal. There are coaches out there who if given the same resources would mismanage the current bunch and have them underperforming.

Last season the likes of Barkley, Jorginho, Kante, Alonso and Christensen got criticism for their performances. Kovacic / Loftus-cheek from my knowledge hardly played consistently. So Chelsea losing their most prolific player and becoming at present a competitive top four team is down to Lampard's ability to cultivate development beyond the present circumstances of a transfer ban, making the best use of his chances by improving key individual players.

When it comes to the "capabilities" of our squad Rashford, Martial, AWB, Maguire, Lindlelof, De Gea and Pogba for me would get into that Chelsea team. So the question for me is if you give Lampard this United team, would we be in a better position than anything we are currently witnessing under Ole ?

The difference with United fans and Solskjaer, is that the cure to many is to buy an entire new starting 11 somehow hoping it will change the direction of alienating many of the teams weaknesses (phases of play, philosophy, attacking shape, movement, chance creation). However I believe many of those issues specific issues lies with the responsibility of the coaches, so the formula of better players = better results is not true.
I think that’s a great assessment of Lampard time so far.

There’s a lot of revisionist history going on here. When Hazard left this summer alot of people said that Chelsea would be lucky to make top 6. Now people seem like it’s been obvious all along Chelsea had a better team all along.

This doesn’t give enough credit to the work and influence Frankie has had on this team in such short time. It’s still early days but what Frank Lampard is doing with this Chelsea team right now is incredible
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fortitude

bosnian_red

Worst scout to ever exist
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
57,587
Location
Canada
Was definitely very wrong about them! Thought they'd struggle massively without Hazard but they look really well balanced and good depth everywhere. The young players stepping up, Lampard motivating them and letting them play to their strengths and showing a good balance of squad management to keep everyone engaged.

They essentially have what now looks like a very good 2 groups of 11's.
Gk: Kepa/Caballero
Rb: Azpilicueta/James
Cb: Rudiger/Christensen/Zouma/Tomori
Lb: Alonso/Emerson
Cdm: Kante/Jorginho
Cm: Loftus-Cheek/Kovacic
Cam: Mount/Barkley
Wings: Willian/Hudson Odoi/Pulisic/Pedro
St: Abraham/Barshuayi/Giroud

That's excellent depth tbf, can adequately replace anyone who gets injured and still have a good side out playing the same way. They dont have a star in attack, but it looks like a group who love playing with each other and just so well balanced. We'll see if they can keep it up, but their defensive weaknesses don't look like theyll be that bad that it harms the rest of their game.
 

bonothom

Full Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Messages
843
Chelsea doing United a favour here. One of our direct rivals, Burnley, getting a hammering can only be a good thing.
 

TsuWave

Full Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Messages
14,130
Think long term lads. We'll be back in 2045. trust the process
 

peridigm

Full Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
13,781
This place is comical. Lampard is in his honeymoon phase still just like Ole was in his first 3 months. Lampards taken on a far more complete, well rounded squad and transfer ban and injuries have limited a lot of decisions he’s had to make cos they’ve been made for him. Everyone creaming themselves over how well Lampard is doing vs how Oles doing need to chill out a bit and see how things are looking in a few months time.
Bit different. Lampard didn’t take over mid season with players that had given up to a previous manager. Only time will tell but Lampard appears to have a lot more support from his players than Ole does.
 

Eric7C

New Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Messages
993
Manager didn't prioritise signing one? If so, which is likely in my opinion, whose to blame? Its not like we had targets available for good value.. Like Lozano.
Manager is to blame, 100%.
 

Leftback99

Might have a bedwetting fetish.
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
13,969
Was definitely very wrong about them! Thought they'd struggle massively without Hazard but they look really well balanced and good depth everywhere. The young players stepping up, Lampard motivating them and letting them play to their strengths and showing a good balance of squad management to keep everyone engaged.

They essentially have what now looks like a very good 2 groups of 11's.
Gk: Kepa/Caballero
Rb: Azpilicueta/James
Cb: Rudiger/Christensen/Zouma/Tomori
Lb: Alonso/Emerson
Cdm: Kante/Jorginho
Cm: Loftus-Cheek/Kovacic
Cam: Mount/Barkley
Wings: Willian/Hudson Odoi/Pulisic/Pedro
St: Abraham/Barshuayi/Giroud

That's excellent depth tbf, can adequately replace anyone who gets injured and still have a good side out playing the same way. They dont have a star in attack, but it looks like a group who love playing with each other and just so well balanced. We'll see if they can keep it up, but their defensive weaknesses don't look like theyll be that bad that it harms the rest of their game.
I don't know how anyone looks at their squad and thinks we're on a par. So many options compared to us. A £60m winger that barely gets a game.
 

Ludens the Red

Full Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
17,430
Location
London
I think that’s a great assessment of Lampard time so far.

There’s a lot of revisionist history going on here. When Hazard left this summer alot of people said that Chelsea would be lucky to make top 6. Now people seem like it’s been obvious all along Chelsea had a better team all along.

This doesn’t give enough credit to the work and influence Frankie has had on this team in such short time. It’s still early days but what Frank Lampard is doing with this Chelsea team right now is incredible
Yeah, you only have to look at the top six predictor thread to see that. Now I’m seeing so many people say “well yeah Lampard has an amazing squad”.
It’s like Neville who after that united/Chelsea game claimed united were one or two short of being in a title challenge. Fast forward to a few weeks back and he’s saying we need about 7/8 players. People just can’t fecking admit to being wrong these days in a football discussion. Pundits, fans, the go to is to always change and alternate your opinion.
 

LJJT

Full Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2010
Messages
1,536
Location
North West
Bit different. Lampard didn’t take over mid season with players that had given up to a previous manager. Only time will tell but Lampard appears to have a lot more support from his players than Ole does.
I actually think there’s a lot of similarities. The Chelsea players clearly were not happy in the straight jacket “sarri ball” system same as our squad hated playing the defensive dross Jose had us playing. Jose and Sarri both old school authoritarian managers replaced by younger x players.
 

dove

New Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
7,899
I don't know how anyone looks at their squad and thinks we're on a par. So many options compared to us. A £60m winger that barely gets a game.
You must be kidding. Before the season started, everyone was saying Chelsea are in a real trouble cause their squad is shite and the manager is too inexperienced. Now when they are actually playing some good football and made 100x more progress in 2 months than we did in 11 under Ole, Ole's fanboys are suddenly saying Chelsea's squad is amazing. No, they, like at least 18 other PL teams just have a better manager.
 

LJJT

Full Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2010
Messages
1,536
Location
North West
I don't know how anyone looks at their squad and thinks we're on a par. So many options compared to us. A £60m winger that barely gets a game.
5 of their starting 11 today would walk into our team. The other 6 are on par with the rest of ours. So they are far stronger man for man. We would have possibly 2 players get in this Chelsea team
 

LJJT

Full Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2010
Messages
1,536
Location
North West
You must be kidding. Before the season started, everyone was saying Chelsea are in a real trouble cause their squad is shite and the manager is too inexperienced. Now when they are actually playing some good football and made 100x more progress in 2 months than we did in 11 under Ole, Ole's fanboys are suddenly saying Chelsea's squad is amazing. No, they, like at least 18 other PL teams just have a better manager.
How many of our team would get in Chelsea’s? Maguire? Pogba? No one else
 

bonothom

Full Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Messages
843
If United win tomorrow they can move up to 7th. That's a big IF. Hoping for a penalty.
 

bonothom

Full Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Messages
843
5 of their starting 11 today would walk into our team. The other 6 are on par with the rest of ours. So they are far stronger man for man. We would have possibly 2 players get in this Chelsea team
I'd take their fromt 6 and pair it with our back 3 plus the left back.
 

Leftback99

Might have a bedwetting fetish.
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
13,969
You must be kidding. Before the season started, everyone was saying Chelsea are in a real trouble cause their squad is shite and the manager is too inexperienced. Now when they are actually playing some good football and made 100x more progress in 2 months than we did in 11 under Ole, Ole's fanboys are suddenly saying Chelsea's squad is amazing. No, they, like at least 18 other PL teams just have a better manager.
Not everyone.
Me in July when arguing that the likes of Leicester, Wolves and Everton might be close to us, never mind Chelsea:
We have more depth but first 11 wise there's really not much in it.

Chelsea are being written off because they haven't bought any players but lost Hazard, when actually they've brought in Pulisic as well as others like Zouma, Batshuayi, Abraham and Mount returning from loan.
Arsenal have made signings after finishing above us, so have Spurs. Let's see what we do in the next week or so but as it stands we could end up anywhere between 4th-8th in my opinion.
Leicester and Chelsea comfortably above us at the moment. Maybe I'm onto something when talking about quality of players making a difference.
 

AC1689

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
474
Location
Manchester
Absolute lols at the gimps saying it’s unfair to compare Ole and Frank at this stage in the season. As if Frank has an easier scenario at Chelsea having lost their talisman and a transfer ban. Or that it’s his “honeymoon” period. Chelsea have a clear identity and game plan whenever you watch them. Something we are severely lacking.

The delusion levels in here are beyond laughable.