VAR Decisions - PL 19/20 Season

[sullydnl]

You’re right. Seriously, imagine Liverpool scoring this exact goal, there’s zero chance they disallow it. We all know it’s true.

Exactly the type of paranoid conspiracy talk Liverpool fans used to direct at us when they were shit and we were good. Klopp will have paid off the FA next.

Liverpool were penalised for a push on Zaha in this very game.

 

[Jev]

This is one of the things I don't like about VAR. Crystal Palace just had a goal disallowed because of a push on a set piece. Was there a push? Yes there was, however it had nothing to do with the play as TAA won the header and flicked it onto a Palace player. The other thing is that on every single set play, if you look hard enough, you will find a foul. I like VAR for things like offside (however I think the rule needs to be changed) and things like penalties and clear and obvious mistakes that had an impact on a play. But I don't like calls like this. How far back can VAR look on a play to call off a goal? This is the part that is ruining the game...

You're absolutely right. If you rewind one minute after a goal, you can always find an offence, one little reason to disallow the goal. And that is close to how VAR is being used right now.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

I can maybe accept that this was a push and a foul, but why did VAR not intervene then when Mane did the same to Sterling 2 weeks ago in the penalty box?

 

[SadlerMUFC]

I can maybe accept that this was a push and a foul, but why did VAR not intervene then when Mane did the same to Sterling 2 weeks ago in the penalty box?

Because it's Liverpool

 

[Acquire Me]

Because it's Liverpool

I think that’s spot on.

 

[sullydnl]

I can maybe accept that this was a push and a foul, but why did VAR not intervene then when Mane did the same to Sterling 2 weeks ago in the penalty box?

Different referees will have different interpretations of subjective decisions. That will never change, with or without VAR.The idea that there is always a right or wrong call is fundamentally flawed.

Which is why the ref who makes the initial decision should be the one overturning it imo. Otherwise you're just getting different opinions erratically overriding each other.

 

[sullydnl]

Regarding the idea that VAR is corrupt towards Liverpool, the reality is that VAR has had a net impact of one decision in Liverpool's favour this season, which is less than several other clubs including us.

Any other incidents have simply stayed with the refree's on-pitch decision, meaning VAR made no difference.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Thing is, would people have brought up the 'foul' on the Liverpool player from Palace's goal had VAR not got involved and ruled it out ?
I had to watch the replay 3 times to see what the heck I was supposed to be looking at.

 

[killerboi2]

It makes me laugh at this stage when I see people trying to judge VAR on a case by case basis, saying stuff like "it got it wrong this time", "the ref should have controlled it better there" etc. Isn't it about time people started admitting that the system, in general, is broken, redundant and doing nothing but causing more problems?

 

[Ikon]

Regarding the idea that VAR is corrupt towards Liverpool, the reality is that VAR has had a net impact of one decision in Liverpool's favour this season..

I find that very difficult to believe, even my Liverpool supporting mates have been saying this season's Premier League will be won by LiVARpool...

 

[MikeKing]

However unlikely, without knowing who the people overturning decisions are, with no coherent explanation following and no apparent strategy to apply consistency there is a huge loophole for corruption right now. Even if it is not corruption, any man with his foot inside the VAR room door can change the outcome of games without any consequence. Their decisions can absolutely be based on bias and there is no way of proving that.

Have there been any similar decisions at all this season? I can't recall any goals being disallowed after a simple corner tumble.

 

[Mb194dc]

The premier League has been semi scripted for a while imo. Like WWE.

VAR just an extension of it. Liverpool and Spurs this season getting "help". It's for entertainment purposes mainly?

To me it's obvious watching. The double standards from VAR are ridiculous.

Seems to me City getting penalised, another title win too boring, can't have that or TV money might drop.

Liverpool champions this season guaranteed.

 

[sullydnl]

I find that very difficult to believe, even my Liverpool supporting mates have been saying this season's Premier League will be won by LiVARpool...

It's a countable fact.

Below lists decisions overturned prior to this GW. So take one from palace and give one to Liverpool.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/english...sions-have-affected-every-premier-league-club

 

[Zlatan 7]

I thought offside was offside, that Southampton foot was clearly offside when they done that moving the line about thing then

 

[El Zoido]

It’s hard to deny they’ve been exceptionally favoured in VAR decisions this season. Whether you want to argue corruption or not, it’s so clear to see. Even neutral fans I know are starting to get annoyed by it. I sit next to a Villa fan at work who wanted Liverpool to win the league this season before it started, now he hates them and wants them to lose because of all the dodgy decisions that are going their way. It’s clear to everyone, not a bias perspective from United fans.

 

[FrankDrebin]

I like the fact that people thought adding more incompetent English refs to game through VAR would improve their decision making.

 

[FrankDrebin]

I find that very difficult to believe, even my Liverpool supporting mates have been saying this season's Premier League will be won by LiVARpool...

I doubt that. Football fans are rarely that self aware about their teams fortunes.

 

[Wayne's World]

Leicester penalty had to retake their penalty....scrap this waste of a thing

 

[sullydnl]

It’s hard to deny they’ve been exceptionally favoured in VAR decisions this season. Whether you want to argue corruption or not, it’s so clear to see. Even neutral fans I know are starting to get annoyed by it. I sit next to a Villa fan at work who wanted Liverpool to win the league this season before it started, now he hates them and wants them to lose because of all the dodgy decisions that are going their way. It’s clear to everyone, not a bias perspective from United fans.

It isn't hard at all. They've recieved net benefit of one overturn from VAR this season. That is a fact. Any other benefit they've recieved has come the referee, on which VAR has had no impact.

 

[do.ob]

Looked like a clear push to me, infront of goal and underneath the ball, so not exactly in no man's land either. It's a frustrating way to lose a goal, but I don't see a VAR mistake here.

 

[MikeKing]

No review of the incident that led to the corner they scored from, Tomkins were pushed a lot harder than Lovren in that first incident. Yet, no review and overturning of the decision. Such bias is tremendous.

 

[sullydnl]

No review of the incident that led to the corner they scored from, Tomkins were pushed a lot harder that Lovren in that first incident. Yet, no review and overturning of the decision. Such bias is tremendous.

I'm not sure what incident you're referring to but if it was a foul in the lead up to a corner being given then it shouldn't have been reviewed. That isn't bias, they're literally not allowed to review it.

 

[Ikon]

I doubt that. Football fans are rarely that self aware about their teams fortunes.

You can doubt whatever you like, but your are completely wrong.

 

[MikeKing]

I'm not sure what incident you're referring to but if it was a foul in the lead up to a corner being given then it shouldn't have been reviewed. That isn't bias, they're literally not allowed to review it.

I thought that VAR could overturn wrong decisions that directly led to a goal. Like a penalty wrongfully being given, or a missed handball in the build up or a corner that shouldn't have been given that led to a goal.

 

[sullydnl]

I thought that VAR could overturn wrong decisions that directly led to a goal. Like a penalty wrongfully being given, or a missed handball in the build up or a corner that shouldn't have been given that led to a goal.

They can't overturn a corner being given as it's like a new phase of play. The defending team has the chance to reset themselves, unlike a handball in the build up to a goal.

 

[sharpstar69]

Looked like a clear push to me, infront of goal and underneath the ball, so not exactly in no man's land either. It's a frustrating way to lose a goal, but I don't see a VAR mistake here.

At last, some sense.....clear and obvious push. You could see Ayew looking shifting when celebrating - he new. As already posted, Liverpools net VAR is one....several teams have more. Go and waste your time picking holes in them.

 

[MrVolley]

It’s hard to deny they’ve been exceptionally favoured in VAR decisions this season. Whether you want to argue corruption or not, it’s so clear to see. It’s clear to everyone, not a bias perspective from United fans.

But no mention of Zaha swan diving for the free-kick that led to the disallowed goal?

One thing is for sure and that VAR has led to a lot of myopic views. For that reason alone I wish they'd get rid of it.

 

[MikeKing]

They can't overturn a corner being given as it's like a new phase of play. The defending team has the chance to reset themselves, unlike a handball in the build up to a goal.

Ah,. But if the ref missed a foul before giving a penalty then VAR can't overturn it because the penalty itself is a new phase of play, or is it different rules for different set pieces?
What if a free-kick right outside the box is wrongly given, blatant, then they scored directly from that set piece. Could they overturn it?

 

[Liver_bird]

We’ve really not had that many decisions go for us with VAR , even united have had a greater benefit from it than us. It’s the fact we’re top of the league and score late so often that is colouring everyone’s perspective as the limelight is on us.

 

[Bobski]

There are so many arguments and angles to take on VAR, but for me the most compelling is also the simplest, it has made the game less fun, both as a live and TV experience.

Football really should have concentrated on raising the standard of officiating before introducing another element into the mix.

 

[Mb194dc]

I see part of the problem as the obvious double standards...

Eg last match weekend. VAR spend 5 minutes to work to disallow Sheff utd v Spurs goal for mm offside.

Next day marginal Salah goal waved through in less than 30 seconds. No official VAR image even issued, just a rather dodgy looking Sky one.

Dele allowed to score a goal after a handball v Watford few weeks ago, city get winner chalked off for exactly the same thing earlier in the season.

There is also the games where it's just rank incompetence of the officials. Like Utd v Palace earlier in the season.

 

[sullydnl]

Ah,. But if the ref missed a foul before giving a penalty then VAR can't overturn it because the penalty itself is a new phase of play, or is it different rules for different set pieces?
What if a free-kick right outside the box is wrongly given, blatant, then they scored directly from that set piece. Could they overturn it?

VAR specifically looks at all penalties awarded in the same way it looks at all goals, so they're different. So if a mistake takes place in the phase of play prior to the penalty being awarded, the penalty can be overturned.

VAR doesn't specifically look at free kicks or corners though, as if it did there would be countless delays. So if a mistake is made in the lead up to a free kick or corner being awarded, it won't be overturned. And if a goal is scored from that corner/free, they'll only review the goal as far back as the goal/free itself.

Basically they don't see an incorrectly awarded free or corner providing as much of an unfair advantage as an incorrectly awarded penalty or goal, so they treat them differently. So in the case of the bolded example the freekick would stand.

 

[MikeKing]

There are so many arguments and angles to take on VAR, but for me the most compelling is also the simplest, it has made the game less fun, both as a live and TV experience.

Football really should have concentrated on raising the standard of officiating before introducing another element into the mix.

Yes. Quite clearly. I thought VAR was going to be a start to help the refs make the right decision all over, quickly. It is possible, but It is fantastic how incompetent they are. I mean, it is not like football is super complicated to be analysed. There is a number of patterns that is repeated in each game, duels etc. To have a consistent approach to every decision should be priority and the first thing to fix. Get a blue-print down based on analysis and have technology give us the answer combined with a highly qualified people supervising and conversing with the ref.

I don't understand how they haven't thought of this. It's not rocket science. Just look at Fifa coders.. bet they could pretty closely replicate a typical game of football and even the ref in fifa could be 100% consistent if they wanted to. As a game fifa sucks, but that's besides the point, the technology is there.

 

[Acquire Me]

Liverpool are shit. VAR is shit. Two facts that can’t be denied.

 

[MikeKing]

VAR specifically looks at all penalties awarded in the same way it looks at all goals, so they're different. So if a mistake takes place in the phase of play prior to the penalty being awarded, the penalty can be overturned.

VAR doesn't specifically look at free kicks or corners though, as if it did there would be countless delays. So if a mistake is made in the lead up to a free kick or corner being awarded, it won't be overturned. And if a goal is scored from that corner/free, they'll only review the goal as far back as the goal/free itself.

Basically they don't see an incorrectly awarded free or corner providing as much of an unfair advantage as an incorrectly awarded penalty or goal, so they treat them differently. So in the case of the bolded example the freekick would stand.

Thanks. I thought that was the case at the start, but tbh it's easy to get a bit confused from all the flip flopping they do. I don't think there has been any decisions similar to our examples that has been overturned, so at the least they've managed to follow the clear cut ideas.

 

[DixieDean]

I told you all this was shit.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

I posted in the game thread in relation to Sterling’s disallowed goal that I don’t actually know what they’re measuring any more.

I thought VAR had shown he was clearly onside.

 

[Canuckred64]

Cant stand VAR, its running the game to me. I thought Sterling was inside and the push on Lovern didn't matter because the Liverpool player in front him flicked the ball well over his head.

 

[Heinzesight]

The fact most Liverpool fans are in favour of it tells it’s own story.

VAR is utter wank. It’s only going to get worse...in the end we’ll have Stockley Park informing a referee not to give a red card because in the phase of play leading up to the incident player A fouled player B before player C shat in player D’s mouth off the ball.

Next we’ll be hearing...”ah yes, you can clearly see the tip of his bellend was offside.”

Needs binning.

 

[sullydnl]

Sterling was offside. If you don't like the offside rule that's one thing but VAR can only enforce it as it stands. VAR didn't invent tight offside calls.

As for the push on Lovren, even the Palace manager accepted that it was a foul and that VAR made the right decision. The fact that it wasn't near the ball is neither here nor there, you still can't push people.

The issues today to my mind were the longstanding ones of referees not using the sideline monitor to keep subjective calls with the one person and people in the stadium not being told what's going on.