Glazers / Woodward out! (One down)

[dabeast]

True no private individual is buying us at the price that the Glazers would demand. It just doesn't make sense to spend the best part of four billion on an asset that will require another billion on playing staff and infrastructure which has an operating profit of circa £100m - £150m. Might as well just buy bonds if they have any cash lying around.

For the Glazers to leave it's the Saudis or bust.

Exactly, Glazers-bust (the strange state of a club being flush with cash but just enough is siphoned off for the club to be uncompetitive but yet profitable). The sad thing is that, as Jim Ratcliffe said, the valuation of $2.6B only comes from a small percentage of non-voting shares being floated, not a real price that anyone has ever come close to paying for a football club.

So it is Sauds or, most likely, Glazers-bust. Worst outcome is if Saudis buy another club in the PL. In which case it is at least another generation of being Glazer-busted.

 

[Class of 63]

But we had two of the best coaches before as well and didn't get anywhere.

Ok, so if we get in Poch and it doesn't work, then what?

Think we go back to David Moyes again.

 

[Class of 63]

Nah, I was right. Definitely hearing aid.

Or maybe he's just listening to some tunes.

 

[red thru&thru]

Think we go back to David Moyes again.

I hear he's being lined up to replace Zidane. Damn you, Ed!

 

[Bobcat]

100% agree. But feel we will be stuck in mediocrity whilst Ed is here. He has shown NOTHING to suggest we can be successful under his stewardship. If our fans were truly supporters of the club, we'd be against this board. All the bickering about Ole wouldn't exist. It should be plain and obvious by now that Ed is the real problem here.

I suppose one is easy to change, and the other many are just resigned to not leaving until our owners do, but you are 100 % right, and we should all stand behind Ole, not because he is the right manager, but because he is far from our biggest problem.

If the owners want to stick with Woodward after Ole goes, or worse feel he is reflection of what they want for the club, or even worse are happy with what he's doing, or even worse than that feel he is just carrying out orders, then we are truly and utterly fecked.

Whatever happened with the Rangnick rumors though? More fake news?

Another thing that worries me is how comparatively little we have spent the last two windows. When Jose had his infamous meltdown he only got to bring in Fred and Dalot while selling Blind with a net spend of 50 million. This season we only spent 90 million net. Considering we have usually spent (poorly) around 150 million the years before that, that is a bit worrying and its not like the rebuild is done just because we've managed to waste a lot of money over the years

 

[Adnan]

I think the only way I see a DoF type figure operating at United is if a potential new head coach asks to work under one as a condition. With Poch I don't see that happening for reasons that are well documented. Nagelsmann and Rose are accustomed to working under one and would ask to operate in a similar way if given the reigns IMO.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

But we had two of the best coaches before as well and didn't get anywhere.

Ok, so if we get in Poch and it doesn't work, then what?

If we get Poch and it doesn't work. I think Woodward will deflect all the the blame towards Poch after not backing him fully, then sack him and Woodward will absolve himself of any blame and still claim that his process of hiring and firing is working.

Then he will appointment manager "x", promise him everything, fail to deliver on those promises. The Woodward blames the new manager as he hasn't got the balls to admit to his mistakes and the need to bring someone in with some football knowledge to help him and still claim that he is doing a good job, then sack the new manager and repeat the cycle again.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

I think the only way I see a DoF type figure operating at United is if a potential new head coach asks to work under one as a condition. With Poch I don't see that happening for reasons that are well documented. Nagelsmann and Rose are accustomed to working under one and would ask to operate in a similar way if given the reigns IMO.

Do you think that Woodward would agree yo having a DoF installed or do you think it is a ploy just to you to appease some fans?

 

[Adnan]

Do you think that Woodward would agree yo having a DoF installed or do you think it is a ploy just to you to appease some fans?

I don't think he would have a issue with a DoF because he would still have the authority over one.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

I don't think he would have a issue with a DoF because he would still have the authority over one.

It took me a while to come to realisation that he would still have power over the DoF. What is your vuew point on why we haven't installed a DoF. Do you think it may be that Woodward thinks we don't currently need one as everything is going ok in his eyes?

 

[Adnan]

It took me a while to come to realisation that he would still have power over the DoF. What is your vuew point on why we haven't installed a DoF. Do you think it may be that Woodward thinks we don't currently need one as everything is going ok in his eyes?

I think the potential appointment of a DoF depends on the manager/head-coach. I also believe Woodward wouldn't be opposed to it. But the only way I see it coming to fruition is if we hire someone like a Nagelsmann or Rose who I feel would want to be working alongside a Ralf Rangnick type figure. The demands of the new coach would be fulfilled in a similar way to how Liverpool have changed things to appease Klopp.

It would've been highly beneficial for us to have a specialist mind running the football department in a DoF type role. The benefits of such a figure would've resulted in us operating in a much smarter way IMO and save a significant sum in wages and transfers fees.

Wan Bissaka and Maguire for a combined £130m was a ridiculous way to go about the rebuild and just shows how naive the board and the current manager are. It was absolute madness to spend such a figure on two players when there was players around Europe who were just as good if not better that would've cost less. But it seems our strategy to change the culture in our squad resulted in Leicester and Palace pulling our pants down well and proper. And that my friends is why a manager should just concentrate on coaching and let a specialist help with recruitment and longterm planning.

 

[AneRu]

I think the potential appointment of a DoF depends on the manager/head-coach. I also believe Woodward wouldn't be opposed to it. But the only way I see it coming to fruition is if we hire someone like a Nagelsmann or Rose who I feel would want to be working alongside Ralf Rangnick type figure. The demands of the new coach would be fulfilled in a similar way to how Liverpool have changed things to appease Klopp.

It would've been highly beneficial for us to have a specialist mind running the football department in a DoF type role. The benefits of such a figure would've resulted in us operating in a much smarter way IMO and save a significant sum in wages and transfers fees.

Wan Bissaka and Maguire for a combined £130m was a ridiculous way to go about the rebuild and just shows how naive the board and the current manager are. It was absolute madness to spend such a figure on two players when there was players around Europe who were just as good if not better that would've cost less. But it seems our strategy to change the culture in our squad resulted in Leicester and Palace pulling our pants down well and proper. And that my friends is why a manager should just concentrate on coaching and let a specialist help with recruitment and longterm planning.

Agree with this. If you look at the players we spent loads on even when accounting for the fact they both settled pretty well both players aren't complete, in terms of being the total package in their position like you'd get with prime Rio, Roy Keane or even Pogba. But we paid world record fees for their respective positions and you have to question the thought processes and judgement applied by whoever made the decision.

With a DOF heading the football department that £90m net would be enough to get you cheaper alternatives that are just as effective but leave you with something in the budget to squeeze in a midfielder that we apparently needed.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

I think the potential appointment of a DoF depends on the manager/head-coach. I also believe Woodward wouldn't be opposed to it. But the only way I see it coming to fruition is if we hire someone like a Nagelsmann or Rose who I feel would want to be working alongside a Ralf Rangnick type figure. The demands of the new coach would be fulfilled in a similar way to how Liverpool have changed things to appease Klopp.

It would've been highly beneficial for us to have a specialist mind running the football department in a DoF type role. The benefits of such a figure would've resulted in us operating in a much smarter way IMO and save a significant sum in wages and transfers fees.

Wan Bissaka and Maguire for a combined £130m was a ridiculous way to go about the rebuild and just shows how naive the board and the current manager are. It was absolute madness to spend such a figure on two players when there was players around Europe who were just as good if not better that would've cost less. But it seems our strategy to change the culture in our squad resulted in Leicester and Palace pulling our pants down well and proper. And that my friends is why a manager should just concentrate on coaching and let a specialist help with recruitment and longterm planning.

I think you make some very good points. I have always thought that Woodward didn't want a DoF.

Although I think we should give Ole until the end of the season. If Ole was to go soon and we were to bring in someone like Neggelsman, I would be happy if we were to finally bring in someone like Ragnick to work alongside him.

I would have liked to brought in a DoF a long time ago as I believe we would be in a better position than we are now and could have potentially saved millions along the way. If we'd had a DoF there is a chance he would have a broader network of contacts to help him in the recruitment process so we may have signed Wan Bissaka and Harry Maguire or he may have had some less costly players of similar ability lined up that I hadn't heard about.

I think Palace and Leicester knew that we were desperate, that was they were asking for such high fees.

Totally agree on the part in bold at the end.

 

[Adnan]

I think you make some very good points. I have always thought that Woodward didn't want a DoF.

Although I think we should give Ole until the end of the season. If Ole was to go soon and we were to bring in someone like Neggelsman, I would be happy if we were to finally bring in someone like Ragnick to work alongside him.

I would have liked to brought in a DoF a long time ago as I believe we would be in a better position than we are now and could have potentially saved millions along the way. If we'd had a DoF there is a chance he would have a broader network of contacts to help him in the recruitment process so we may have signed Wan Bissaka and Harry Maguire or he may have had some less costly players of similar ability lined up that I hadn't heard about.

I think Palace and Leicester knew that we were desperate, that was they were asking for such high fees.

Totally agree on the part in bold at the end.

We have looked desperate in every single transfer window post SAF. Currently we're looking to the January transfer window in desperation due to our narrow minded approach in the previous one where we got taken to the cleaners by Palace and Leicester for players who aren't anywhere close to being the best in their positions in Europe. And we paid record sums to do it, which is quite shocking to anyone that has a basic understanding of the leagues around Europe and how they operate. We keep hearing that the January window isn't easy to do business in. But for us, even the summer window seems difficult to operate in.

Giving Ole time is fine, but I have doubts the Glazers will want to give significant funds to someone who is a rookie and has so many doubts and questions hanging over him.

 

[wolvored]

I think the sad thing is we will never get rid of the Glazers until Joel or Avram peg it. Woodward will be here until he decides to retire. While they can still attract massive deals like the new shirt sponsors why would they want to leave? Its just a cash cow for them. There will be talk of buyers, but who would invest £5-6 billion overall to buy the club, pay off the debt, upgrade the ground, persuade a WC manager and buy WC players to get Utd back to the top? Even the Saudi supposed interest has gone quiet. We will be like the Liverpool of the 90s. occasionally win a cup, but never challenge for the title.

 

[Rams]

Chainsaws and suitcases for all. Just don’t take the missus to the game.

 

[thegregster]

True no private individual is buying us at the price that the Glazers would demand. It just doesn't make sense to spend the best part of four billion on an asset that will require another billion on playing staff and infrastructure which has an operating profit of circa £100m - £150m. Might as well just buy bonds if they have any cash lying around.

For the Glazers to leave it's the Saudis or bust.

Could they not float the company on the stock exchange?

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Could they not float the company on the stock exchange?

Those things take a lot of time to put together plus we were once there already so wouldn’t attract investors 2nd time around.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

We have looked desperate in every single transfer window post SAF. Currently we're looking to the January transfer window in desperation due to our narrow minded approach in the previous one where we got taken to the cleaners by Palace and Leicester for players who aren't anywhere close to being the best in their positions in Europe. And we paid record sums to do it, which is quite shocking to anyone that has a basic understanding of the leagues around Europe and how they operate. We keep hearing that the January window isn't easy to do business in. But for us, even the summer window seems difficult to operate in.

Giving Ole time is fine, but I have doubts the Glazers will want to give significant funds to someone who is a rookie and has so many doubts and questions hanging over him.

I agree that it was difficult for us in the summer window. This is something that concerns me that we took so long to make the signings in the summer, that we are going to have less time this winter to get the transfers done and I don't have faith in Woodward getting the transfers finalised within the time frame.

I believe that if we had done better in the summer transfer window we would be in a better situation we are in now and wouldn't need to be so heavily reliant on the winter window to get us back on track. Although it is hard to recruit in the winter window, if we choose to make permanent signings rather than loans, we are going to find it harder to recruit again as teams know that we are desperate and I feel they will demand extortionate fees for players.

I agree with your last paragraph and I think that is one of the reasons the Glazer's hired Ole. He is not going to moan if he is not going to be given significant funds as he is happy just to have the job. By doing this I don't think that the Glazer's are being fair to Ole because it is not the full team that Ole may want. I think they should back him in this next window so he can show them what he can do with a squad of his choosing and depending how it goes reassess the situation at the end of the season.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

I think the sad thing is we will never get rid of the Glazers until Joel or Avram peg it. Woodward will be here until he decides to retire. While they can still attract massive deals like the new shirt sponsors why would they want to leave? Its just a cash cow for them. There will be talk of buyers, but who would invest £5-6 billion overall to buy the club, pay off the debt, upgrade the ground, persuade a WC manager and buy WC players to get Utd back to the top? Even the Saudi supposed interest has gone quiet. We will be like the Liverpool of the 90s. occasionally win a cup, but never challenge for the title.

I agreee with some of your points. I think the Glazer's and Woodward are going to be here for a while. One way I could see them leaving is if the value of the brand drops so low that they decide they want to cash in before it drops too low. The value of the club is so high that I think it will be hard to find a buyer due to the point you mentioned in bold. I dread us becoming like Liverpool were for many years and had a conversation with my father who is also a United support about it some time ago and expressed my concerns regarding this possible scenario occurring. He seems to think we are too big to go down that route, I hope he is right but the way things are with these guys in charge I am not so sure.

 

[wolvored]

I agreee with some of your points. I think the Glazer's and Woodward are going to be here for a while. One way I could see them leaving is if the value of the brand drops so low that they decide they want to cash in before it drops too low. The value of the club is so high that I think it will be hard to find a buyer due to the point you mentioned in bold. I dread us becoming like Liverpool were for many years and had a conversation with my father who is also a United support about it some time ago and expressed my concerns regarding this possible scenario occurring. He seems to think we are too big to go down that route, I hope he is right but the way things are with these guys in charge I am not so sure.

I agree with you. Liverpool were the biggest team in 1990. If you had said then they wouldnt win the league for 29 years you would have been a laughing joke. Its already going to be 7 years now and counting.

 

[AneRu]

We have looked desperate in every single transfer window post SAF. Currently we're looking to the January transfer window in desperation due to our narrow minded approach in the previous one where we got taken to the cleaners by Palace and Leicester for players who aren't anywhere close to being the best in their positions in Europe. And we paid record sums to do it, which is quite shocking to anyone that has a basic understanding of the leagues around Europe and how they operate. We keep hearing that the January window isn't easy to do business in. But for us, even the summer window seems difficult to operate in.

Giving Ole time is fine, but I have doubts the Glazers will want to give significant funds to someone who is a rookie and has so many doubts and questions hanging over him.

Which confirms the fears that recruitment is our Achilles heel and a major part of that weakness is to do with the fact that our football sides places too much importance on the manager to the extent that we always have to rebuild after every managerial failure. This makes it imperative that we get the managerial appointment right but more often than not a top manager at the top of his game wouldn't risk his career on people who know so little about football - to get someone like Klopp you need to sell him a sporting project that convinces him that the club has the vision, the will and the ability to challenge for top honors - so Liverpool were able to convince him and we, with our football 'disney land' vision weren't.

The issues at United are so simple that if the Glazers brought in a top football operator and give him space and time to build we will get out of this rut more effectively but as it is we will be playing catch up and be always on never ending rebuilds. The decision to give Ole time or not shouldn't be made by the current infrastructure at United particularly so because the decision to hire him was flawed from the beginning. Until we start doing the correct things for the right reasons at Board level we are going fall deeper into the abyss.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

I agree with you. Liverpool were the biggest team in 1990. If you had said then they wouldnt win the league for 29 years you would have been a laughing joke. Its already going to be 7 years now and counting.

My Chelsea supporting mate used to mock us for not winning it for 5 years. Although it hurt a bit I didn't bite as I thought we were going to win it soon but it's been another 2 seasons since then counting.

 

[dabeast]

City has just received a US$ 500 million investment from a US tech investor, Silver Lake, which has set the valuation at $4.8 billion. All the money will go into the club. Although we made a little more revenue last year (projected to equalise this year), this makes them officially eclipse United economically, both in the total valuation and the money available to spend.

Will the Glazers respond?

 

[Eric's Seagull]

City has just received a US$ 500 million investment from a US tech investor, Silver Lake, which has set the valuation at $4.8 billion. All the money will go into the club. Although we made a little more revenue last year (projected to equalise this year), this makes them officially eclipse United economically, both in the total valuation and the money available to spend.

Will the Glazers respond?

Doubt the Glazers will respond the way that I would like them too. Didn't realise City were getting this significant investment. Thanks for sharing. I personally don't think the Glazer's are concerned about investing significantly to compete for the major trophies sadly

 

[Adnan]

City has just received a US$ 500 million investment from a US tech investor, Silver Lake, which has set the valuation at $4.8 billion. All the money will go into the club. Although we made a little more revenue last year (projected to equalise this year), this makes them officially eclipse United economically, both in the total valuation and the money available to spend.

Will the Glazers respond?

Glazers will respond by taking alittle more out of the club coffers.

 

[Russky14]

Says it all really we are getting excited about a shirt deal & City tie up PE at 300m+. Woodward the commercial magician? Him & the Glazers need to get their thinking hats on as to converting & selling off a chunk of shares via the market or PE. otherwise they need to bog off.

Its bad enough seeing Scouserpool effectively closing the title gap to 1 with the help of VAR, but lack of traction in everything means this could go the other way when in fact Liverpool are not that great in terms of squad, it s manager coaching and system that doing it.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

Says it all really we are getting excited about a shirt deal & City tie up PE at 300m+. Woodward the commercial magician? Him & the Glazers need to get their thinking hats on as to converting & selling off a chunk of shares via the market or PE. otherwise they need to bog off.

Its bad enough seeing Scouserpool effectively closing the title gap to 1 with the help of VAR, but lack of traction in everything means this could go the other way when in fact Liverpool are not that great in terms of squad, it s manager coaching and system that doing it.

I may be behind the times but only yesterday I found out we have a sock deal worth £95M over 5 years. A quote which p!ssed me off Wooward made about the sock deal is “It’s a huge relief to finally get the negotiations over with so the club can now focus on getting back to doing what we this football club does best, making shit loads more money.”

Agree that the Glazer's need to get their thinking caps on and hopefully sell up and feck off soon.

 

[Suedesi]

$Man Utd stock up 12% today in midday trading, obviously on the back of City's investment (comparable transactions).

As a shareholder, I'm happy.

 

[arthurka]

We won't get anywhere with these owners and their puppet.

 

[djembatheking]

City has just received a US$ 500 million investment from a US tech investor, Silver Lake, which has set the valuation at $4.8 billion. All the money will go into the club. Although we made a little more revenue last year (projected to equalise this year), this makes them officially eclipse United economically, both in the total valuation and the money available to spend.

Will the Glazers respond?

Yep, we`ll sell Pogba on deadline day.

 

[Valar Morghulis]

We won't get anywhere with these owners and their puppet.

There's pretty much been no backlash or real appetite to even bother protesting against them at the ground in recent times. Glazers are truly on easy street here, we're just passively watching them milk us dry, it's really sad to see.

 

[arthurka]

There's pretty much been no backlash or real appetite to even bother protesting against them at the ground in recent times. Glazers are truly on easy street here, we're just passively watching them milk us dry, it's really sad to see.

It will happen if nothing changes.

 

[Valar Morghulis]

It will happen if nothing changes.

Maybe the tide is slowly turning, just saw a video of a United fan giving Woodward a wet willy in Kazakhstan (Not making that up btw)

If reports of Avram Glazer receiving an atomic wedgie come out soon it might just be a sign that a rebellion is on the horizon.

 

[Majima]

I would like to see someone name a similar club of stature & financial strength to ours, where the owners could sell our "youth strategy" to their fans?

Imagine telling the fans of Real/Barca/Bayern to forget about competing at all for the next few years. You have to expect to lose for x number of years to win in the future. That's the way all rebuilds are done.

It just wouldn't happen, there would be riots.

Only at this docile club would the fans, so wholeheartedly accept the wool being pulled over their eyes.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Says it all really we are getting excited about a shirt deal & City tie up PE at 300m+. Woodward the commercial magician? Him & the Glazers need to get their thinking hats on as to converting & selling off a chunk of shares via the market or PE. otherwise they need to bog off.

Its bad enough seeing Scouserpool effectively closing the title gap to 1 with the help of VAR, but lack of traction in everything means this could go the other way when in fact Liverpool are not that great in terms of squad, it s manager coaching and system that doing it.

Another complete myth. We've had the slowest growth of all of our major rivals since he took over - we just had such a big head start over them that we still 'stayed ahead of the pack' regardless. Resting on our laurels? Oh yes, as always.

We are fading into the annals of football folklore, on the dusty pages alongside AC Milan, Leeds Utd etc if we arent careful. A book of myth, with the Norwegian sasquatch at the helm and a fecking gnome sanctioning the transfers.

 

[sunama]

Imagine telling the fans of Real/Barca/Bayern to forget about competing at all for the next few years. You have to expect to lose for x number of years to win in the future. That's the way all rebuilds are done.

It just wouldn't happen, there would be riots.

Only at this docile club would the fans, so wholeheartedly accept the wool being pulled over their eyes.

Agreed 100%.
Other clubs back and hire new managers and those managers make instant impact. No '3 year wait for the manager to come good'.
But with us, we need to wait for an indefinite period of time to maybe (if we are very lucky), win a league.
The astonishing thing about this all is that fans are actually believing this nonsense. They truly believe that a rebuild is taking place and that it must take several years. There are threads on this forum where fans are sure that we will make signings in January.
The actual plan is to save money (as we saw in the last 3 transfer windows). There is no appetite to spend our way to success. We are treading water and are currently in 9th place.

It will be galling to see if Jose take over Spurs and overtake us in the league, while we remain a mid-table team, behind teams like Sheffield Utd.

I shall leave you with this: Jose got fired because we had a bad start to the season. Ole is currently doing worse (points-wise) than Jose. Why is the performance of our current season (which is worse than last season), acceptable?

 

[Majima]

Agreed 100%.
Other clubs back and hire new managers and those managers make instant impact. No '3 year wait for the manager to come good'.
But with us, we need to wait for an indefinite period of time to maybe (if we are very lucky), win a league.
The astonishing thing about this all is that fans are actually believing this nonsense. They truly believe that a rebuild is taking place and that it must take several years. There are threads on this forum where fans are sure that we will make signings in January.
The actual plan is to save money (as we saw in the last 3 transfer windows). There is no appetite to spend our way to success. We are treading water and are currently in 9th place.

It will be galling to see if Jose take over Spurs and overtake us in the league, while we remain a mid-table team, behind teams like Sheffield Utd.

I shall leave you with this: Jose got fired because we had a bad start to the season. Ole is currently doing worse (points-wise) than Jose. Why is the performance of our current season (which is worse than last season), acceptable?

It's absolutely bonkers. It really is. I struggle to think of a club that makes the amount we do, that treats their fan base in a similar way. All i can say is i feel sorry for them as their gullibility & blind loyalty is what the Glazers have been preying upon ever since they darkened our doorstep.

Agree with all that you've said, I've held similar beliefs for a long time now.

I shall leave you with this: Jose got fired because we had a bad start to the season. Ole is currently doing worse (points-wise) than Jose. Why is the performance of our current season (which is worse than last season), acceptable?

This is the million pound question.

I have asked fans similar questions myself. The answer i have got back is it's the young squad and that Ole is likable.

My take is that, the fans are so taken aback with the romanticism of the young squad and Ole being such a nice guy, former legend and all, that they just don't care anymore. They believe we deserve to be terrible after the past 6 years maybe. Ole spouts as many SAF cliches as possible & can allow them to reminisce about the warm fuzzy feelings under SAF. It's kind of like a comfort blanket for the fans. That's what i make of our current situation.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

I shall leave you with this: Jose got fired because we had a bad start to the season. Ole is currently doing worse (points-wise) than Jose. Why is the performance of our current season (which is worse than last season), acceptable?

People will quote the xPts stats and that we should have a lot more points than we currently got. Then again, if factoring out set pieces and penalties, we are no better off compared to other mid-table teams. And depending on set pieces and penalties as a means to score 33% of our goals is not a got strategy. Our xG from open play is equal to a goal a game.

 

[red thru&thru]

Glazers out. Ed Woodward out.