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Maybe. I see it differently.That’s a very narrow definition, I think most would agree that cruising through games is seen as unprofessional.
Maybe. I see it differently.That’s a very narrow definition, I think most would agree that cruising through games is seen as unprofessional.
Yeah yeah already been there and done that. We are worse without him, it's a fact. Don't let it eat at you.yeah, for 1 game in 8 when he has his bi-monthly worldie.
Barely know he's playing in the other 5.
And he has a mare losing the ball, and misses penalties and easy shots which costs us goals and points, in 1 or 2.
And when he plays, he has to be top boy, so everything has to go through him, which impacts quality and contribution of others.
Net net, no impact, and perhaps even worse.
I don't think Pogba will be back as soon as people hope. We might see him in short spells as a substitute in the next couple of weeks, match fitness is very important before starting games after a long injury.Back at Carrington today. Seems like he'll be having more tests then back in training.
Back before you know it
Oh yeah, 1-2 weeks minimum unfortunately.I don't think Pogba will be back as soon as people hope. We might see him in short spells as a substitute in the next couple of weeks, match fitness is very important before starting games after a long injury.
What actually worries me is that foot and ankle injuries seem to easily turn into chronic issues for athletes and if I'm not mistaken he already missed three months for that type of injury in 2016 or 2017. I wouldn't be surprised if ends up being genuinely injury prone.Oh yeah, 1-2 weeks minimum unfortunately.
Pogba is a naturally fit guy though so it shouldn't take him long to get back up to speed. The main issue is if he's pain free or not.
Yep, this is my fear as well.What actually worries me is that foot and ankle injuries seem to easily turn into chronic issues for athletes and if I'm not mistaken he already missed three months for that type of injury in 2016 or 2017. I wouldn't be surprised if ends up being genuinely injury prone.
I think he’s probably been playing with this injury for a while and it’s never fully healed.What actually worries me is that foot and ankle injuries seem to easily turn into chronic issues for athletes and if I'm not mistaken he already missed three months for that type of injury in 2016 or 2017. I wouldn't be surprised if ends up being genuinely injury prone.
That would depend on that you criticise him for. If the criticism is based largely around his passing or shooting, no - but if it is his hair, his dancing (in his own fecking home), or for stereotypical personality traits that there have been no evidence of - then yes, quite probably at least one of the above would apply to you. Especially when players of different profiles do not get criticised for the same things.If you criticise Pogba you’re a racist and Islamaphobe, anti African and anti French and anti football and anti millennial and anti youth culture. Did I miss anything?
You mean like how Rooney has been called Shrek for most of his career? How the likes of him and Shaw are constantly called "fatties"? Loads of white English players have been stereotypically scrutinised but I have never seen anyone call out the fans or media on that.That would depend on that you criticise him for. If the criticism is based largely around his passing or shooting, no - but if it is his hair, his dancing (in his own fecking home), or for stereotypical personality traits that there have been no evidence of - then yes, quite probably at least one of the above would apply to you. Especially when players of different profiles do not get criticised for the same things.
I really hope he doesn't end up being injury prone. Sometimes a player gets a bit of a knock and it doesn't seem too serious so they may carry on for the sake of the team but realise they made a mistake and it turns out to be worse than they thought it was going to be.What actually worries me is that foot and ankle injuries seem to easily turn into chronic issues for athletes and if I'm not mistaken he already missed three months for that type of injury in 2016 or 2017. I wouldn't be surprised if ends up being genuinely injury prone.
No, I don’t mean like that at all.You mean like how Rooney has been called Shrek for most of his career? How the likes of him and Shaw are constantly called "fatties"? Loads of white English players have been stereotypically scrutinised but I have never seen anyone call out the fans or media on that.
Yeah but stereotypical physical traits is also part of the problem you talk about. However, like I said, I have never seen an outrage when it comes to white English players.No, I don’t mean like that at all.
Read my post again perhaps.
If so I don't think they'll get Pogba.They set it at 100 or 120 didn’t they?
Well ultimately, it’s not a competition anyway, maybe some stereotypical remarks were made towards Rooney too.Yeah but stereotypical physical traits is also part of the problem you talk about. However, like I said, I have never seen an outrage when it comes to white English players.
"Boring James Milner" comes to mind if we have to talk about traits. "Wayne Rooney has a low IQ" is another one. I'm not English so I can easily say that I've seen people from other countries or ethnicities use these way too often and not in a joking manner, but it never gets mentioned as xenophobia or racism. The biggest stereotype about the English people around Europe, specifically the white English people, is that they are "fat, ugly, stupid drunks".
What you say about Pogba being targeted due to malicious prejudice is right, I agree, but I find the hypocrisy to be strong when it's talked about as if it's on some large scale and that loads of people dislike him due to that factor. We had a conversation about the subject of celebrity life in another thread, I believe you already know what my opinion is so I won't repeat it and go too much off topic, I've done enough of that I think.
I'm not saying it's a competition, I just wanted to point out the hypocrisy of how the issue is neglected when it comes to white English players.Well ultimately, it’s not a competition anyway, maybe some stereotypical remarks were made towards Rooney too.
With regards to Pogba, a Graeme Souness, your typical Cambridge journalist and probably a lot of middle-aged white men on Redcafe are not as qualified as they seem to think they are in drawing the links they do between the hairstyles Pogba uses, the music he likes and the way he dances and his attitude and professionalism. And it isn’t just a race issue, one of the other examples given in the post I responded to was ‘anti-millennial’, and that probably applies too.
There are regular comments about Pogba’s ‘silly hairstyles’ and ‘stupid dancing’, both from middle aged, often white pundits and probably a similar profile of poster on here. It’s fine if it isn’t your cup of tea, but it has gone beyond fashion assessment, to people taking a supposed position of authority on what is the ‘right way’ to behave - and Pogba’s choices do not fit into that. Who are they to say? It’s an arrogance and a superiority complex. Pogba is African. Africans like dancing. We dance when we are happy. It’s what we do. To the Sky Sports panel, it is dismissed as ‘showmanship’, and something he’s only entitled to do if he wins 10 MOTM awards in a row.
On the football pitch, some things work, others don’t. But what cannot be disputed is the role Pogba has in the team within the creative department. He’s the one expected to produce the individual brilliance to create an opening. His teammates always defer to him in hope. However, if he tries to beat a man and is dispossessed, it is never just seen as that - ‘trying to beat a man and being dispossessed’. It’s an act of ‘childishness’ and ‘selfishness’. When it comes off, it’s what he should be doing all the time. I’m watching De Bruyne play as we speak. He will never be criticised for trying an outrageous pass. He won’t really try an outrageous dribble as he is less capable of it than Pogba. But he gives the ball away just as much in the act of trying things. Marcus Rashford, to my knowledge, has never been called ‘selfish’ and ‘childish’ by a commentator or pundit for trying to take on too much. Yet he is a far worse offender than Pogba.
I’m not saying there is necessary malice. I suspect a lot of this prejudice is subconscious. Which is probably why posters are being defensive about it here. There are similarities with Raheem Sterling, and it was not until he held up a mirror to the British media that they could actually see that they were treating him so unfairly and judgementally. They were clearly embarrassed and now he’s their favourite son. But it’s not for people to say he’s making it up, people who are not in a position to say how these things make them feel. I can see it as clear as day with Pogba. It’s obviously not racism in terms of monkey chants and n-words, and because of that, everyone can say ‘we’ve come such a long way’ and racism no longer exists - but there are still many prejudices within the game. Pogba is a villain here in the UK for pretty much no reason. How many people in this thread alone have baselessly declared they have ‘had enough’ of his terrible attitude and the like? If you ask them to expand, they would struggle. A player like Roy Keane is often referenced. He’s how a footballer ‘should be’. Seemingly more professional than Pogba, because his whole character and demeanour is more relatable. He has a stern face, doesn’t dance, dresses simply, regular haircut. Well that’s good for him. But when you look at it, he’s a professional with a far worse attitude than Pogba to me. Him criticising his teammates publicly, him threatening to leave for more money in a much more brazen way than Pogba. Physically fighting his teammates. You can think he’s a better footballer than Pogba if you like, but beyond that, why is he any better a man or professional?
Agree with most of what you've said. Im of african descent so i too can relate more to pogba than the average middle aged white man. You did leave me scratching my head when you said he isn't childish on the pitch. Im very unbiased so I believe i can go ahead and tell you this is far from the truth. De bruyne loses the ball alot but is not the type of player to shoot at goal when 3 on 1 with two strikers ahead of him. Thats where the frustration comes with fans. The selfishness comes from him trying to get on the scoresheet instead of making sure we have at least secured the game. To deny Pogba is sometimes selfish or has a bit of immaturity to his game is a bit much.Well ultimately, it’s not a competition anyway, maybe some stereotypical remarks were made towards Rooney too.
With regards to Pogba, a Graeme Souness, your typical Cambridge journalist and probably a lot of middle-aged white men on Redcafe are not as qualified as they seem to think they are in drawing the links they do between the hairstyles Pogba uses, the music he likes and the way he dances and his attitude and professionalism. And it isn’t just a race issue, one of the other examples given in the post I responded to was ‘anti-millennial’, and that probably applies too.
There are regular comments about Pogba’s ‘silly hairstyles’ and ‘stupid dancing’, both from middle aged, often white pundits and probably a similar profile of poster on here. It’s fine if it isn’t your cup of tea, but it has gone beyond fashion assessment, to people taking a supposed position of authority on what is the ‘right way’ to behave - and Pogba’s choices do not fit into that. Who are they to say? It’s an arrogance and a superiority complex. Pogba is African. Africans like dancing. We dance when we are happy. It’s what we do. To the Sky Sports panel, it is dismissed as ‘showmanship’, and something he’s only entitled to do if he wins 10 MOTM awards in a row.
On the football pitch, some things work, others don’t. But what cannot be disputed is the role Pogba has in the team within the creative department. He’s the one expected to produce the individual brilliance to create an opening. His teammates always defer to him in hope. However, if he tries to beat a man and is dispossessed, it is never just seen as that - ‘trying to beat a man and being dispossessed’. It’s an act of ‘childishness’ and ‘selfishness’. When it comes off, it’s what he should be doing all the time. I’m watching De Bruyne play as we speak. He will never be criticised for trying an outrageous pass. He won’t really try an outrageous dribble as he is less capable of it than Pogba. But he gives the ball away just as much in the act of trying things. Marcus Rashford, to my knowledge, has never been called ‘selfish’ and ‘childish’ by a commentator or pundit for trying to take on too much. Yet he is a far worse offender than Pogba.
I’m not saying there is necessary malice. I suspect a lot of this prejudice is subconscious. Which is probably why posters are being defensive about it here. There are similarities with Raheem Sterling, and it was not until he held up a mirror to the British media that they could actually see that they were treating him so unfairly and judgementally. They were clearly embarrassed and now he’s their favourite son. But it’s not for people to say he’s making it up, people who are not in a position to say how these things make them feel. I can see it as clear as day with Pogba. It’s obviously not racism in terms of monkey chants and n-words, and because of that, everyone can say ‘we’ve come such a long way’ and racism no longer exists - but there are still many prejudices within the game. Pogba is a villain here in the UK for pretty much no reason. How many people in this thread alone have baselessly declared they have ‘had enough’ of his terrible attitude and the like? If you ask them to expand, they would struggle. A player like Roy Keane is often referenced. He’s how a footballer ‘should be’. Seemingly more professional than Pogba, because his whole character and demeanour is more relatable. He has a stern face, doesn’t dance, dresses simply, regular haircut. Well that’s good for him. But when you look at it, he’s a professional with a far worse attitude than Pogba to me. Him criticising his teammates publicly, him threatening to leave for more money in a much more brazen way than Pogba. Physically fighting his teammates. You can think he’s a better footballer than Pogba if you like, but beyond that, why is he any better a man or professional?
Heh! Yeah, that pretty much sums up Pogba's return to United, doesn't it?Its all a mess really.
Yet he’s been our best outfield player since his return. But yeah we’ve been poor as a club.It's not often you see 'Pogba' and 'good' in the same sentence.
More often than you see Man Utd and good together.It's not often you see 'Pogba' and 'good' in the same sentence.
I'd put a few ahead of him. Including Brandon Williams, Daniel James and Wan-Bissaka. Sometimes effort goes a bit further than the occasional killing pass.Yet he’s been our best outfield player since his return. But yeah we’ve been poor as a club.
What about points per game, goal involvements, chances created etc? Where do they stack up when deciding who the better player has been?I'd put a few ahead of him. Including Brandon Williams, Daniel James and Wan-Bissaka. Sometimes effort goes a bit further than the occasional killing pass.
Couple of points:Can't get excited about his return. He's a player that needs quality around him both as protection and liberation for his talents. We have neither that nor a manager that can get the best out of him.
the amazing run with Ole as interim manager was a testament to Pogba's influence in the right circumstances. Soon as Ole's management started to take hold, Pogba was back deep and the quality missing
Yes, in midfield. As big a fan I am of McTominay he's still young and developing. During that run. Haha thanks for the layup: Ander Herrera. Take him out and our capitulation form begins.Couple of points:
1) So are you saying there's no quality in this United side other than Pogba? How did Pogba protect and liberate himself during the amazing Ole run?
very much so! He just told them to go play with freedom. The first real chance to stamp some authority into the team was thru a full preseason and after that Pogba was playing deep again. And the club as a whole? Well... the table doesn't lie. We may yet improve but can only give you a reflection based on the present.2) What are the right circumstances? Do you think the team wasn't coached during the amazing Ole run and they just did what they fancied?
Ole is all talk and no action. I mean, he said he fancied Axel in DM. That's immediately a short term solution to let Pogba play further up. Alas, neither that nor did we buy midfielders of any quality. Until Ole speaks out publicly on Ed not fulfilling transfers then he's complicit. And I take everything the man says with a grain of salt because I have very big suspicions based on the events thus far3) Can you recall what Ole said about Pogba and how he sees him as a player?
Bit silly and contradictory unless you actually believe United have more quality than France. And if that's the case, then whoooopie fun times4) Can you recall how deep Pogba often plays for France and what he's said himself about the role?
I'm sorry I can't accept that for 15 games Ole and the coaching staff sat at Carrington smoking cigars watching the team coach itself then on match day 16 Ole turned to Phelan, stubbed out his Cigar and said 'Right, the boys have done fantastic on their own but Eds on my back so we best try and coach them a bit. It's the United way'. Cue Mike digging out his shorts and whistling at Carrick and McKenna to follow him over to the training pitch, tell Pogba to play deep and coach the squad to defeat.Yes, in midfield. As big a fan I am of McTominay he's still young and developing. During that run. Haha thanks for the layup: Ander Herrera. Take him out and our capitulation form begins.
very much so! He just told them to go play with freedom. The first real chance to stamp some authority into the team was thru a full preseason and after that Pogba was playing deep again. And the club as a whole? Well... the table doesn't lie. We may yet improve but can only give you a reflection based on the present.
Ole is all talk and no action. I mean, he said he fancied Axel in DM. That's immediately a short term solution to let Pogba play further up. Alas, neither that nor did we buy midfielders of any quality. Until Ole speaks out publicly on Ed not fulfilling transfers then he's complicit. And I take everything the man says with a grain of salt because I have very big suspicions based on the events thus far
Bit silly and contradictory unless you actually believe United have more quality than France. And if that's the case, then whoooopie fun times
Pogba has also claimed he wanted to be a mix up of the best of Zidane, Pirlo, Scholes, Gerrard and even Lampard.
I wonder if Madrid will have €€€ in Jan but considering our midfield state if we can sell him to get two decent midfielders (Bruno Fernandes etc) we shouldHe's definitely injured. However can't see him here beyond Jan. Madrid will come with a swap deal I guess.
It's exactly what happened. Interim manager. Lift the mood. Play with freedom. Things going smoothly til a couple injuries hit and the balance wihh Herrera is done.I'm sorry I can't accept that for 15 games Ole and the coaching staff sat at Carrington smoking cigars watching the team coach itself then on match day 16 Ole turned to Phelan, stubbed out his Cigar and said 'Right, the boys have done fantastic on their own but Eds on my back so we best try and coach them a bit. It's the United way'. Cue Mike digging out his shorts and whistling at Carrick and McKenna to follow him over to the training pitch, tell Pogba to play deep and coach the squad to defeat.
Just doesn't sound right you know? Can't put my finger on why.
What are the rumours he won't play for United again? Or just stuff from the Caf? I've seen Pogba say quite the opposite.It's exactly what happened. Interim manager. Lift the mood. Play with freedom. Things going smoothly til a couple injuries hit and the balance wihh Herrera is done.
Now they've got to actually figure out a solution. So move Pogba back as is the very basic by default option without the right midfield tools. And voila the clown cart continues to roll and the wheels start to fall apart.
Summer cometh and hey, let's not buy another midfielder. Pogba talks openly about leaving. Hey let's rely entirely on him, Pereira can do a job. And Bam injury to Paul , rumors he won't play again for United, absolutely emptu In the center of the park . But even before then looking like a very poorly coached side.
There may be some in between truth between where I am and what you're imagining. But it still lies way South of the competent manager and decent squad line.
Sshh anything negative in the media = 100% factWhat are the rumours he won't play for United again? Or just stuff from the Caf? I've seen Pogba say quite the opposite.
Do people really think that? I thought this was more a general thread of whether Pogba will leave.What are the rumours he won't play for United again? Or just stuff from the Caf? I've seen Pogba say quite the opposite.
Important obviously, but I can’t remember many games when I can say I’ve enjoyed watching him play, when I haven’t been irritated by his lack of urgency, when he’s lost the ball and made no attempt to get it back...he does not strike me as a team player.What about points per game, goal involvements, chances created etc? Where do they stack up when deciding who the better player has been?
Pogba has been talking about leaving United for some time. Straight from the horse's mouth. Then once the club asked him to shut up. And the talk was from his agent and his family.Sshh anything negative in the media = 100% fact
Anything positive in the media = 100% ignore it never happened