Ozil, China, Arsenal, PL, Hypocrisy...

adexkola

Doesn't understand sportswashing.
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
48,027
Location
The CL is a glorified FA Cup set to music
Supports
orderly disembarking on planes
Arsenal have distanced themselves from comments made by Mesut Özil on Instagram, in which he spoke out strongly against China’s persecution of the Uighur population in the north-western region of Xinjiang and criticised Muslims for not doing more to highlight the issue.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-from-mesut-ozil-comments-china-uighur-people
Long story short:

1. Ozil criticizes China for how they treat majority Muslim Uighurs, and other Muslims for not speaking out more

2. Chinese social media farms engage Ozil on Twitter

3. Arsenal wade in to confirm that Ozil's comments are his alone and they remain cool with China ('s money).

For those not in the know, a General Manager in the NBA got into hot water over comments made in support of Hong Kong. The NBA has a huge presence in China, and ultimately the league was forced to apologize and try and smooth things out.

What is the possibility of this occurring more frequent? Will the PL muzzle it's players when it comes to sensitive issues potentially impacting money flow? Should it? I mean, what's China gonna do, boycott the PL and watch it's league instead?

Go!
 

Grande

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
6,204
Location
The Land of Do-What-You-Will
Money. I would generally not encourage that you go to war, but if you do, I’d rather sell you the weapons than not. He’s right, though. The uighurs are treated dismally in parts of China. (Now let’s see if my workplace will distance itself from me.)
 

Acrobat7

Full Member
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
5,175
Supports
Bayern Munich
Robs Arsenal of the chance to sell him to China.
 

mu4c_20le

Full Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
42,727
I think it's normal for clubs to distance themselves from politics.
 

horsechoker

The Caf's Roy Keane.
Joined
Apr 16, 2015
Messages
51,375
Location
The stable
I was watching some videos about the sports boycott of South Africa in the apartheid era. The sporting world was able to put pressure on South Africa to end apartheid. If South Africa had money invested in global sport would the world have been ready to make a stand?

It seems China can isolate themselves from criticism by having their fingers in as many pies as possible.
 

adexkola

Doesn't understand sportswashing.
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
48,027
Location
The CL is a glorified FA Cup set to music
Supports
orderly disembarking on planes
I was watching some videos about the sports boycott of South Africa in the apartheid era. The sporting world was able to put pressure on South Africa to end apartheid. If South Africa had money invested in global sport would the world have been ready to make a stand?

It seems China can isolate themselves from criticism by having their fingers in as many pies as possible.
Answer is no. US/UK support until the late 80s for apartheid was partly driven by business/Cold War considerations.

Not my intent to turn this into a purely political thread mind.

Robs Arsenal of the chance to sell him to China.
:lol:

Chess, not checkers.
 

mu4c_20le

Full Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
42,727
Is it politics though? I thought it was a human rights issue. Could be wrong I'm not fully informed on this...
I think it's a bit of both. Is it a thing for clubs to constantly speak out against these issues? We even have Saudi Telecom as a sponsor for example.

Funny how he doesn't talk about his boy Erdogan killing Kurds though.
:lol: thank you. I was just wondering if Ozil ever spoke out against other cases involving muslims or human rights abuses.
 

adexkola

Doesn't understand sportswashing.
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
48,027
Location
The CL is a glorified FA Cup set to music
Supports
orderly disembarking on planes
I think it's a bit of both. Is it a thing for clubs to constantly speak out against these issues? We even have Saudi Telecom as a sponsor for example.


:lol: thank you. I was just wondering if Ozil ever spoke out against other cases involving muslims or human rights abuses.
Why do people who speak out about certain things have to be perfect? Genuine question
 

Jam

Full Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
1,143
1) He’s right.

2) It’s slightly hypocritical. You don’t get to pick and chose which human rights abuses you speak out about. The Erdogan saga was a mess.

3) Clubs will always want to stay out of political minefields like this one especially when it involves major markets like China. Their response doesn’t surprise me one iota.
 

HJ12

Full Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2016
Messages
967
It's a tough one for clubs as they'll always want to stay out of politics for obvious and understandable reasons. What this situation does however highlight is that clubs are sh*t scared of upsetting major/potentially major revenue streams. It's hardly necessary to issue a statement confirming that what player x says is his own views and not of the club - that's implicit and generally accepted.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SteveJ

Skills

Snitch
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
42,010
True. He is a hypocrite. Do we ignore his call for attention to the Uighurs because he's a hypocrite?
The fact that he's calling out other muslims for not speaking out more, is what will rub people up the wrong way given his own hypocrisy with the Turkey/Kurds.
 

Kostur

海尔的老板
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
28,749
Location
Poland, Kraków
Funny how he doesn't talk about his boy Erdogan killing Kurds though.
The first thing that came to my mind, he can go and feck himself, he's nothing but a fecking poser.

Cue him crying like a bitch that he was again made a scapegoat on twitter in near future though. Really hope they sell him to Mars or some other shithole where we won't have to endure him opening his gob.
 

adexkola

Doesn't understand sportswashing.
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
48,027
Location
The CL is a glorified FA Cup set to music
Supports
orderly disembarking on planes
The fact that he's calling out other muslims for not speaking out more, is what will rub people up the wrong way given his own hypocrisy with the Turkey/Kurds.
I get that. Hypocrisy is a bitch and an annoying trait.

Recent involvements in the City cnut fans thread have made me reconsider how hypocrisy should factor into things.
 

Brophs

The One and Only
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
50,275
Let's hope he's more willing to backtrack than he is to track back.
 

izec

Full Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2013
Messages
27,164
Location
Lucilinburhuc
Good old Özil. He only cares about Turkey and Muslims. I cant take someone serious who only cares about his own religion and nation, but support or empathy disappears as soon as it is the other way around. In Özil's case, he is basically lying in bed with Erdogan and thus supporting a dictator and murderer heavily
 

Dr. Dwayne

Self proclaimed tagline king.
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
97,247
Location
Nearer my Cas, to thee
Why do people who speak out about certain things have to be perfect? Genuine question
If he wasn't mates with Erdogan, I wouldn't have been so critical.

But I don't want to take away from the actual point of your thread, which is China using its economic power to muzzle criticism.
 

Snow

Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
33,225
Location
Lousy Smarch weather
Why do people who speak out about certain things have to be perfect? Genuine question
In this case specifically because Özil is calling out Muslims for not speaking out against atrocities being carried out against a group of Muslims whilst his pal, the dictator of Turkey whom he vocally supports, is killing another group of Muslims.
 

Barnslig

Full Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Messages
2,467
Why do people who speak out about certain things have to be perfect? Genuine question
No one has said people speaking out has to be perfect? It does feel hypocritical saying "You guys need to treat these people better" only to turn around and be best mates with a guy that literally slaughters people, no?
 

awop

Odds winner of 'Odds or Evens 2022/2023'
Newbie
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Messages
4,086
Location
Paris
Supports
Arsenal
It's not a contest, Özil is right to talk about this terrible situation and is wrong to be so close to Erdogan. But the two should not be talked about together. This whataboutism is only going to drown the original message. The way Özil communicated though made it hard for the club to fully support him without creating a huge mess.

 
  • Like
Reactions: harms

criticalanalysis

Full Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
6,034
It's not a contest, Özil is right to talk about this terrible situation and is wrong to be so close to Erdogan. But the two should not be talked about together. This whataboutism is only going to drown the original message. The way Özil communicated though made it hard for the club to fully support him without creating a huge mess.

HK has a population of around 7 million. How and why the feck does LeTV pay that much? The HK people must be getting shafted with those prices being passed on to them.

Or am I missing something here..
 

adexkola

Doesn't understand sportswashing.
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
48,027
Location
The CL is a glorified FA Cup set to music
Supports
orderly disembarking on planes
No one has said people speaking out has to be perfect? It does feel hypocritical saying "You guys need to treat these people better" only to turn around and be best mates with a guy that literally slaughters people, no?
It is hypocritical! I'm not disagreeing with that at all. Ozil, at best, must be very good at cognitive dissonance.

Now if the convo stops at Ozil's hypocrisy... Then that's a waste of Niall's hard earned money isn't it?
 

Barnslig

Full Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Messages
2,467
It's not a contest, Özil is right to talk about this terrible situation and is wrong to be so close to Erdogan. But the two should not be talked about together. This whataboutism is only going to drown the original message. The way Özil communicated though made it hard for the club to fully support him without creating a huge mess.

So if you talk out against nazism, but are personal friends with Hitler, that shouldn't be talked about? :houllier:
 

Barnslig

Full Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Messages
2,467
It is hypocritical! I'm not disagreeing with that at all. Ozil, at best, must be very good at cognitive dissonance.

Now if the convo stops at Ozil's hypocrisy... Then that's a waste of Niall's hard earned money isn't it?
I do very much agree with you that these large corporations bending over backwards for China is a major issue, especially for free speech and human rights. One of my favourite companies, Blizzard, have recently been in a controversy with China as well, and they caved, bent over and kissed China's ass. Lost a lot of respect for them over that.

Understandably, China is a huge market for lots of major international companies, but if the western markets respond by boycotting various companies as well then maybe these companies understand we don't want their backwards communist policies dictating our markets.
 

Lj82

Full Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2016
Messages
1,060
Location
Singapore
I think it's a bit of both. Is it a thing for clubs to constantly speak out against these issues? We even have Saudi Telecom as a sponsor for example.


:lol: thank you. I was just wondering if Ozil ever spoke out against other cases involving muslims or human rights abuses.
With the Uyghurs, it's more than just religion. They are historically/ethnically(?) linked to the Turks.
Not unusual for a Turk to show sympathy towards Uyghur.
 

Grinner

Not fat gutted. Hirsuteness of shoulders TBD.
Staff
Joined
May 5, 2003
Messages
72,287
Location
I love free dirt and rocks!
Supports
Arsenal
Not funny, he’s just a fecking hypocrite.
So if you made a moany post about an oppo player diving or cheating we can all disregard it because you haven't made a similar post anytime one of your team's players cheats?
 

giorno

boob novice
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
26,140
Supports
Real Madrid
I'm sure prime minister Winnie the Pooh won't turn this into a sh*tstorm
 

KM

I’m afraid I just blue myself
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
49,718
It's a noble cause but the response of Arsenal was predictable. I don't think there is any PL clubs who would have not done the same thing in their position. China has far too much money for any club to say anything.
 

Abizzz

Full Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
7,614
Anyone here from the US/UK/EU blaming Ozil for Erdogans actions is a hypocrite when it's their governments that gave Erdogan the power to do what he does with the kurds...

And yet that doesn't change anything about the fact that what Erdogan does is wrong. Same for the Chinese and Uighur.
 

Barnslig

Full Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Messages
2,467
So if you made a moany post about an oppo player diving or cheating we can all disregard it because you haven't made a similar post anytime one of your team's players cheats?
Diving in a game =/= Mass genocide and torture
 

VJ1762

New Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
1,023
Anyone here from the US/UK/EU blaming Ozil for Erdogans actions is a hypocrite when it's their governments that gave Erdogan the power to do what he does with the kurds...

And yet that doesn't change anything about the fact that what Erdogan does is wrong. Same for the Chinese and Uighur.
Politics is built on being hypocritical, tbf. Don't think anybody can do anything because China has major say in global economics. Also, football is making major inroads in China, where before NBA was the thing. I would have expected the same statement from United, economics outweighs all the potential headaches one incurs by taking a stand.

It is the same thing with Saudi Arabia. SA backed Softbank is a major player in Silicon Valley. They also pay billions of dollars for arms from the UK/USA. They have a major say in global oil pricing. You cannot risk to enrage an ally like that, and do all the shenanigans that the US did/continues to do in South America, unless you want to turn SA into another potential Syria.

Having said that, it is admirable to see Ozil offering his support for the Uighur cause. One also hopes that Ozil looks up about what his buddy Erdogan is doing and revises his support for him. He has shown that he has the right intentions.
 

VJ1762

New Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
1,023
It's a noble cause but the response of Arsenal was predictable. I don't think there is any PL clubs who would have not done the same thing in their position. China has far too much money for any club to say anything.
This.
 

africanspur

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
9,081
Supports
Tottenham Hotspur
In this case specifically because Özil is calling out Muslims for not speaking out against atrocities being carried out against a group of Muslims whilst his pal, the dictator of Turkey whom he vocally supports, is killing another group of Muslims.
Not that I agree with it at all but the reason he will see this as different is that, rightly or wrongly, he will see the Uighur persecution as being religiously based (which it partly is) and as an ethnic Turk, probably feels extra sympathy for a group that is ethnically linked to him. Whereas the Turk/Kurd issue is not a religious one but one he may see as a local conflict.

Moreover, I know Erdogan is public enemy number one on here and in the West in general these days and I greatly dislike him but I find a lot of the comments....a little off the mark. What 'his buddy' Erdogan is doing with the Kurds is literally no different to what the Turkish army and state have been doing to the Kurds for literally a century now, yet the way some (want to) frame it on here is loony Erdogan and his murderous focus on the Kurds.

Back to the original point, unfortunately Arsenal reacted as I imagine every single club would have acted and I think you're right, this will happen more and more in sports. China has too many people and too much economic power for sports teams to ignore them and generally don't take kindly to criticism.