Let's not buy Raiola players again - ever

Bondi77

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Still missing the point
I don’t think you get the point.
Let me put it this way;
Do you think a player can break a contract if other players in the team who are possibly higher profile and possibly better paid but are not playing to their potential and possibly feigning injury and just not generally honouring their contract?
This just relates to any team in any sport by the way.
 

jackal&hyde

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There needs to be some sort of agreement between the clubs, especially the rich ones, to not make business with this guy. He is a leach of the game and commands more power then clubs with millions of fans.
 

Cassidy

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I don’t think you get the point.
Let me put it this way;
Do you think a player can break a contract if other players in the team who are possibly higher profile and possibly better paid but are not playing to their potential and possibly feigning injury and just not generally honouring their contract?
This just relates to any team in any sport by the way.
You again missing the point. Players leave clubs before their contract ends all the time. Its called a transfer

Clubs that cannot fulfil a players level and ambition usually end of losing the player.

If a club signs a player with the intention of consistently playing UCL for instance, then not playing in the UCL for a few years could lead to the player wanting out.

Its not just about the contract but also the clubs promises to the player to get them to sign which are important.

Of course it works both ways as clubs sell players who do not want to be sold if they are underperforming etc.
 
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JPRouve

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You again missing the point. Players leave clubs before their contract ends all the time. Its called a transfer

Clubs that cannot fulfil a players level and ambition usually end of losing the player.

If a club signs a player with the intention of consistently playing UCL for instance, theb not playing in the UCL for a few years could lead to the player wanting out.

Its not just about the contract but also the clubs promises to the player to get them to sign which are important.

Of course it works both ways as clubs sell players who do not want to be sold if they ate underperforming etc.
And even thinking about the contract. A player could easily tell his club that at the moment he has no intention to extend his contract unless the club's ambitions change. I assume that people would be extremely upset if a player said nothing until the last six months of his contract and simply signed for an other club while not giving his club the opportunity to either demonstrate that they are a good fit or sell the player before his contract expires.
 

Cliche Guevara

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You again missing the point. Players leave clubs before their contract ends all the time. Its called a transfer

Clubs that cannot fulfil a players level and ambition usually end of losing the player.

If a club signs a player with the intention of consistently playing UCL for instance, theb not playing in the UCL for a few years could lead to the player wanting out.

Its not just about the contract but also the clubs promises to the player to get them to sign which are important.

Of course it works both ways as clubs sell players who do not want to be sold if they ate underperforming etc.
Yes but you can’t say a club has broken its contract with a player because it wasn’t as successful as it hoped when it tried to attract the player.

I get your point to an extent but it’s a silly argument.
 

Cassidy

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Yes but you can’t say a club has broken its contract with a player because it wasn’t as successful as it hoped when it tried to attract the player.

I get your point to an extent but it’s a silly argument.
The original point wasn't about “breaking” a contract but about an athlete honouring a contract till the end. Which most will not if their ambitions are not met, they will get a transfer.

People expect loyalty from players to clubs when there is non the other way round.
 

JPRouve

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The original point wasn't about “breaking” a contract but about an athlete honouring a contract till the end. Which most will not if their ambitions are not met, they will get a transfer.

People expect loyalty from players to clubs when there is non the other way round.
A small correction, most players will honor their contracts because they don't have a choice, they don't own their registration. But a player may and most likely will generally make his opinion known which is how a most transfers happen, whether there is a formal transfer request or not.
 

OutlawGER

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Haha...the only people whose butt should be hurt are that fat pig and his puppets. The fat feck has no business in foul mouthing our club. He talked out of turn and unprovoked and so he will have to deal with the vitriol that follows. And because you are defending Raiola let me ask you this: why is he ranting against United now? Is it because we refused to butter his bread in the Haaland deal? Or is it because we are blocking his pay day on the Pogba to Madrid deal? You say Pogba is a model professional. When this said model professional openly courted a move to Real, new challenge and all that, had "chance" meeting with Zidane etc. has our club ever uttered a word against his behaviour. Pogba is cunning, whether it's his own brain at work or that of the snake Raiola only time will tell. And yes, Pogba has been erratic for United at best. If he was really a model pro and a true world class footballer he would have taken the challenge of improving us by the scruff of the neck instead of downing tools and courting other clubs. Instead of ranting, the fatso could have asked his player to put in an official transfer request. But no. Why take the decent path right? I hope he chokes on his own lard.

Raiola is probably ranting because United has spoiled false information about the Haaland deal (release clause for example) to make a butthurt United look better (and BVB worse) after losing out on Haaland. And it worked it seems after reading a lot of comments in this forum.
 

ROFLUTION

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Raiola is probably ranting because United has spoiled false information about the Haaland deal (release clause for example) to make a butthurt United look better (and BVB worse) after losing out on Haaland. And it worked it seems after reading a lot of comments in this forum.
But it's not much in Uniteds interest to leak the release clause imo. Would just be more of a scoop if United signed him cheaply with no one knowing of it, but also a bit strange if no one knew about it and Dortmund signs him for cheap as people would ask "why didnt United enter".

So if this was a maneuvre to save face by United, it suggests that we have very early on in the process mentioned it and also very early in the process tried to save face. That to me sounds unreasonable and like a weird way to go about things.
 

DoomSlayer

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Raiola is probably ranting because United has spoiled false information about the Haaland deal (release clause for example) to make a butthurt United look better (and BVB worse) after losing out on Haaland. And it worked it seems after reading a lot of comments in this forum.
And why do you care? Why are you even here? Go big up Raiola on a "BVB" forum or your Bayern one.
 

JPRouve

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But it's not much in Uniteds interest to leak the release clause imo. Would just be more of a scoop if United signed him cheaply with no one knowing of it, but also a bit strange if no one knew about it and Dortmund signs him for cheap as people would ask "why didnt United enter".

So if this was a maneuvre to save face by United, it suggests that we have very early on in the process mentioned it and also very early in the process tried to save face. That to me sounds unreasonable and like a weird way to go about things.
I'm not saying that the saving face theory is correct but think about that poorly hidden brief that the club gave in August 2018 when the club tried to explain why it didn't sign Maguire, which wasn't needed, from a communication standpoint this football club is one of the dumbest.
 

jackal&hyde

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Raiola is probably ranting because United has spoiled false information about the Haaland deal (release clause for example) to make a butthurt United look better (and BVB worse) after losing out on Haaland. And it worked it seems after reading a lot of comments in this forum.
He had no problem in brokering the deals for Ibra and Pogba when the club was willing to meet his demands. Now he wouldn't bring any player to United because he has moral issues and sporting reasons and what not? Come on... He has been ousted for the snake that he is and is hitting back. It has nothing to do with BVB. They've probably just bowed down to some ridiculous demands because it was the only way they could get the player when more prestigious clubs like Juve and United were in the mix.

I hope the big clubs will united and stop doing business with this cnut. Football has to do away with these sort of people that bring nothing to the game but are making fortunes by creating unrest and pushing players to make as many moves as possible during their careers. They are the leaches of football.
 

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Raiola is probably ranting because United has spoiled false information about the Haaland deal (release clause for example) to make a butthurt United look better (and BVB worse) after losing out on Haaland. And it worked it seems after reading a lot of comments in this forum.
Raiola is a scabby mongrel. Man Utd need not bitch about him. The entire world knows his true nature. United also have sadly greased his palms many a time. But am happy that they cut the fat cnut off this time. And I bet you must be happy that Haaland joined your feeder club eh?
 

Cliche Guevara

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Raiola is a scabby mongrel. Man Utd need not bitch about him. The entire world knows his true nature. United also have sadly greased his palms many a time. But am happy that they cut the fat cnut off this time. And I bet you must be happy that Haaland joined your feeder club eh?
Yeah when he signs for Bayern in the summer of 2021 their fans will be going on about what great business it is and how they are so clever to sign a player with a €50m release clause. There won’t be the same sympathy for Dortmund then. Not that Dortmund will care as long as they keep making money.
 

JPRouve

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He had no problem in brokering the deals for Ibra and Pogba when the club was willing to meet his demands. Now he wouldn't bring any player to United because he has moral issues and sporting reasons and what not? Come on... He has been ousted for the snake that he is and is hitting back. It has nothing to do with BVB. They've probably just bowed down to some ridiculous demands because it was the only way they could get the player when more prestigious clubs like Juve and United were in the mix.

I hope the big clubs will united and stop doing business with this cnut. Football has to do away with these sort of people that bring nothing to the game but are making fortunes by creating unrest and pushing players to make as many moves as possible during their careers. They are the leaches of football.
I have seen people turn it that way but it's a lot more nuanced. The response is in the context of Manchester United putting together mediocre seasons and a player wanting to win the Champions League and the Ballon d'Or, Raiola answered that Today he wouldn't bring any, such, players because we don't provide the foundations for success. There is actually nothing wrong in what he said or more accurately with what he thinks other than it's not good to hear for United fans.

As for the second part he doesn't push his clients to move and they don't move more often than others.
 

DoomSlayer

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He said Pogba is a nice boy but his agent is a cnut, so yeah, he was.
He also said Pogba was disrespectful and SAF was happy that he would go far away from him due to how he acted.

Pogba was made to train alone as punishment in the last 3-4 months of his contract by Sir Alex, you don't do that to someone you like.
 

DoomSlayer

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I have seen people turn it that way but it's a lot more nuanced. The response is in the context of Manchester United putting together mediocre seasons and a player wanting to win the Champions League and the Ballon d'Or, Raiola answered that Today he wouldn't bring any, such, players because we don't provide the foundations for success. There is actually nothing wrong in what he said or more accurately with what he thinks other than it's not good to hear for United fans.

As for the second part he doesn't push his clients to move and they don't move more often than others.
Why do you like and defend Raiola so much? He talks bad about us and Sir Alex and you have no problem with that, which is fecking weird, to say the least.
 

jackal&hyde

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I have seen people turn it that way but it's a lot more nuanced. The response is in the context of Manchester United putting together mediocre seasons and a player wanting to win the Champions League and the Ballon d'Or, Raiola answered that Today he wouldn't bring any, such, players because we don't provide the foundations for success. There is actually nothing wrong in what he said or more accurately with what he thinks other than it's not good to hear for United fans.

As for the second part he doesn't push his clients to move and they don't move more often than others.
Did we have such "foundations" when he brought Ibra and Pogba? I'm sorry but it doesn't make sense given his past activities. His players are also known for searching out moves as soon as something looks even slightly wrong; the more moves they make the more he earns from buying clubs.
 

jackal&hyde

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He also said Pogba was disrespectful and SAF was happy that he would go far away from him due to how he acted.

Pogba was made to train alone as punishment in the last 3-4 months of his contract by Sir Alex, you don't do that to someone you like.
SAF on Pogba and Raiola. Fairly clear he had nothing against the player and he blames the agent for putting ideas in his head to fill his pockets.

The bold part; you do that to someone you know has had his head turned and there is nothing you can do about it. I doubt he disliked an 17 18 yo boy that had both talent and correct attitude to make it big.
 

JPRouve

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Why do you like and defend Raiola so much? He talks bad about us and Sir Alex and you have no problem with that, which is fecking weird, to say the least.
I don't like him and I don't like the fact that people distort reality particularly when I see people praise agents that actually push players to move and have done it through third part ownership. Raiola is rude and generally unpleasant but there are famous agents who are directly involved in tax evasion schemes and players exploitation, these agents are never targeted by the press the way they do about Raiola when the consequences of their actions are far worse than being offended.
 

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Not to take anything away from his legacy, but when you consider that Juve apparently was willing to present a contract worthy of Raiola's Chihuahuas, got the player on a free, had him as a regular starter within a couple of months and got four good years out of him before selling him back to United for a record fee, maybe there is a tiny chance that SAF got it wrong in this instance and Raiola had a better idea of Pogba's worth?
Probably yes, but then again after that move and after Pogba developed, he went and got Pogba ready for Man Utd while he probably already had a good time and role at Juventus. Also made him choose us over Real Madrid. Not even doubting that he, back then, had thoughts of selling Pogba to Real later to sell the same product twice.

So I'm just saying Raiola has only done what he has done for Pogba, for Raiola's sake. Maybe very short term for Pogba, and that's how he treats his clients. Pogba would probably even be a superstar with regular good performances able to put the most focus into his performances, had he stayed at United and gotten raised slowly and safe under Fergie with the right manners. Instead his great talent got nurtured by the wrong guy.
 

JPRouve

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Did we have such "foundations" when he brought Ibra and Pogba? I'm sorry but it doesn't make sense given his past activities. His players are also known for searching out moves as soon as something looks even slightly wrong; the more moves they make the more he earns from buying clubs.
He is talking about today and where United are today, not about the past. And the second part is not correct, you can easily check it, it's basically based on Ibrahimovic's career and it's not even that surprising since he started at Malmo and had to climb the football ladder like many other players not working with Raiola and that don't come from big club academies. He has players that don't move or have barely moved in their careers like Insigne, Nedved or Pogba.
 
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do.ob

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Probably yes, but then again after that move and after Pogba developed, he went and got Pogba ready for Man Utd while he probably already had a good time and role at Juventus. Also made him choose us over Real Madrid. Not even doubting that he, back then, had thoughts of selling Pogba to Real later to sell the same product twice.

So I'm just saying Raiola has only done what he has done for Pogba, for Raiola's sake. Maybe very short term for Pogba, and that's how he treats his clients. Pogba would probably even be a superstar with regular good performances able to put the most focus into his performances, had he stayed at United and gotten raised slowly and safe under Fergie with the right manners. Instead his great talent got nurtured by the wrong guy.
Basically you're "just saying" that Pogba is Raiola's slave, who has no say in what contracts he signs.
 

jackal&hyde

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He is talking about today and where United are today, not about the past. And the second part is not correct, you can easily check it, it's basically based on Ibrahimovic's career and it's not even that surprising since he started at Malmo and had to climb the football ladder like many other players not working with Raiola and that don't come from big club academies. He has players that don't move or have barely moved in their careers like Insigne, Nedved or Pogba.
So when he brought Pogba to United we were looking great but now not so much? I don't understand. And if the context that you talk about, winning CL and Ballon D'or, are those things going to happen at BVB for Haaland? I'm sorry but the only consistent thing with all of these decisions made by Riola is money. We can dance around the subject all we want but a lot of his players get magically unsettled 3-4 years in their contracts and whenever he is criticized for being the snake that he is he comes out swinging at clubs, managers, everyone. In my country we had a similar figure in the agents world, he eventually took a well deserved vacation paid and housed by the state for a number of years. It was a happy day.
 

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Basically you're "just saying" that Pogba is Raiola's slave, who has no say in what contracts he signs.
No I'm basically just saying he's a bad influence. At age 18 you dont know much about life. A footballer's World can also be a very immature World as you've gotten very succesful fast and rich early on, while also usually being completely uneducated. If how you measure yourself is succes, having a public image and money, then I'm sure an agent like Raiola has a field-day. He can even now claim after Pogba's move to Juve, that Pogba became a superstar because of Raiola, so therefore he should listen to his great advice again next time (this is where Raiola makes his money - the player now trusts him). Egoistically speaking, that is a masterstroke of Raiola.
 

JPRouve

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So when he brought Pogba to United we were looking great but now not so much? I don't understand. And if the context that you talk about, winning CL and Ballon D'or, are those things going to happen at BVB for Haaland? I'm sorry but the only consistent thing with all of these decisions made by Riola is money. We can dance around the subject all we want but a lot of his players get magically unsettled 3-4 years in their contracts and whenever he is criticized for being the snake that he is he comes out swinging at clubs, managers, everyone. In my country we had a similar figure in the agents world, he eventually took a well deserved vacation paid and housed by the state for a number of years. It was a happy day.
When he brought Pogba to United, I assume that a project was sold and it was spearheaded by a respected manager in Mourinho. Now in 2020, we are 3 and half years after that transfer and we stagnated or went backward. As for Haaland, I don't really understand that one, Haaland is a 19 years old striker with little experience making the jump from the Austrian league, he is in the process of developing his craft. One is a 26 years old player that is already entering his prime while the other will reach enter his prime in almost half a decade.

The interview for la Repubblica was actually about what you are talking, players have to make different career choices depending on the stage of their careers and their profile. He talked about 4 players, De Ligt, Haaland, Kean and Pogba. De Ligt went to Juventus because as Raiola said he was the captain of his teams, he was mature enough to get into a competition at Juventus and he also wanted to got to what Raiola called the Harvard of defending with Chiellini and Bonucci as his teachers. Kean moved from Juventus because he was told that he would play in Serie C with Juve U23 and that the PL was an option for Kean because he speaks english otherwise he wouldn't advise young italian players to move in England because they tend to struggle away from home. Haaland went to Dortmund and not Italy because they thought that it was a better environment for an attacking player in Italy there is less emphasis on that side of the ball and they struggle to develop that type of player.
 

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No I'm basically just saying he's a bad influence. At age 18 you dont know much about life. A footballer's World can also be a very immature World as you've gotten very succesful fast and rich early on, while also usually being completely uneducated. If how you measure yourself is succes, having a public image and money, then I'm sure an agent like Raiola has a field-day. He can even now claim after Pogba's move to Juve, that Pogba became a superstar because of Raiola, so therefore he should listen to his great advice again next time (this is where Raiola makes his money - the player now trusts him). Egoistically speaking, that is a masterstroke of Raiola.
I'm sure there are a lot of football players out there who greatly depend on others to get through their life, but it's still a massive leap to just assume with certainty that Pogba is one of them. And because of what exactly? Because evil Raiola told him not to accept a (going by that anecdote) low-ball offer and instead got him to a club where played more, played in a better team and got more money for his services. Or because it now seems that Pogba would be rather playing for a club hoping to win the CL than a club hoping to qualify for it.
 

jackal&hyde

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When he brought Pogba to United, I assume that a project was sold and it was spearheaded by a respected manager in Mourinho. Now in 2020, we are 3 and half years after that transfer and we stagnated or went backward. As for Haaland, I don't really understand that one, Haaland is a 19 years old striker with little experience making the jump from the Austrian league, he is in the process of developing his craft. One is a 26 years old player that is already entering his prime while the other will reach enter his prime in almost half a decade.

The interview for la Repubblica was actually about what you are talking, players have to make different career choices depending on the stage of their careers and their profile. He talked about 4 players, De Ligt, Haaland, Kean and Pogba. De Ligt went to Juventus because as Raiola said he was the captain of his teams, he was mature enough to get into a competition at Juventus and he also wanted to got to what Raiola called the Harvard of defending with Chiellini and Bonucci as his teachers. Kean moved from Juventus because he was told that he would play in Serie C with Juve U23 and that the PL was an option for Kean because he speaks english otherwise he wouldn't advise young italian players to move in England because they tend to struggle away from home. Haaland went to Dortmund and not Italy because they thought that it was a better environment for an attacking player in Italy there is less emphasis on that side of the ball and they struggle to develop that type of player.
Those are the things that he said, do you believe them to be true?

You bring defenders to Italy, attackers to Germany? Doesn't that sound like using stereotypes to justify his moves as being "player focused" rather then "that's where i got the most money from"? It sound very child like explanations to me; maybe something a young footballer would buy :lol:

As far as United and the project, you can not have a more short term project then having Mourinho. If there is one good thing about the current regime, is that we actually have an idea of what we want and we are fallowing it even at the cost of some short time pain (letting many players go without immediate replacements). The manager has nothing but good things to say about Pogba, he is respected by the club (don't know about some fans though), he is made the most important piece with comments like "build the team around him" and yet, mister snake says things like "he needs more support", "the club doesn't protect him" and other such nonsense. The usual 2 to 4 years are up and a new big money move has to be on the cards so he is doing his usual to unsettle the player.
 

JPRouve

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Those are the things that he said, do you believe them to be true?

You bring defenders to Italy, attackers to Germany? Doesn't that sound like using stereotypes to justify his moves as being "player focused" rather then "that's where i got the most money from"? It sound very child like explanations to me; maybe something a young footballer would buy :lol:

As far as United and the project, you can not have a more short term project then having Mourinho. If there is one good thing about the current regime, is that we actually have an idea of what we want and we are fallowing it even at the cost of some short time pain (letting many players go without immediate replacements). The manager has nothing but good things to say about Pogba, he is respected by the club (don't know about some fans though), he is made the most important piece with comments like "build the team around him" and yet, mister snake says things like "he needs more support", "the club doesn't protect him" and other such nonsense. The usual 2 to 4 years are up and a new big money move has to be on the cards so he is doing his usual to unsettle the player.
You can take it as you wish, I simply told you what he said. Though I'm surprised to see people play the money card when we talk about Dortmund and Juventus, people on the caf generally make fun of their lack of money compared to United and english clubs.

As for the second paragraph, I don't really know what it has to do with the point made, no one talked about a long term project in that interview. It was a very short point about wanting to win the CL and Ballon d'Or, presumably in the near future. I don't really understand why you don't get that simple point and keep going in a direction that no one else did.
 

jackal&hyde

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You can take it as you wish, I simply told you what he said. Though I'm surprised to see people play the money card when we talk about Dortmund and Juventus, people on the caf generally make fun of their lack of money compared to United and english clubs.

As for the second paragraph, I don't really know what it has to do with the point made, no one talked about a long term project in that interview. It was a very short point about wanting to win the CL and Ballon d'Or, presumably in the near future. I don't really understand why you don't get that simple point and keep going in a direction that no one else did.
I know, i was responding to his statements not to you in particular. Uniteds current strategy of wanting players that are going to want to be here for the long term is at odds with the interest of the snake that lives by engineering moves for his star players every 2-4 years so i do understand where he's coming from; if i was him i would also not want to do business with clubs like United anymore, it's just not as lucrative as it could be. Though if we do pay a kings ransom he will of course.

The CL and Ballon d'Or comments don't make sense in the Haaland BVB transfer, Juve would have been a much better candidate, but i guess Italy is not the place for strikers :lol: They also don't make sense in the Pogba to a struggling United from a on form Juventus where he was very well settled in the system. To me, his explanations are silly at times and contradictory at others, and the only thing that makes sense is money.
 

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Probably yes, but then again after that move and after Pogba developed, he went and got Pogba ready for Man Utd while he probably already had a good time and role at Juventus. Also made him choose us over Real Madrid. Not even doubting that he, back then, had thoughts of selling Pogba to Real later to sell the same product twice.

So I'm just saying Raiola has only done what he has done for Pogba, for Raiola's sake. Maybe very short term for Pogba, and that's how he treats his clients. Pogba would probably even be a superstar with regular good performances able to put the most focus into his performances, had he stayed at United and gotten raised slowly and safe under Fergie with the right manners. Instead his great talent got nurtured by the wrong guy.
Indeed. It's not like Juve was the only place where He could grow and his success at Juve was not down to Raiola. It was down to him and the manager.
 

JPRouve

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I know, i was responding to his statements not to you in particular. Uniteds current strategy of wanting players that are going to want to be here for the long term is at odds with the interest of the snake that lives by engineering moves for his star players every 2-4 years so i do understand where he's coming from; if i was him i would also not want to do business with clubs like United anymore, it's just not as lucrative as it could be. Though if we do pay a kings ransom he will of course.

The CL and Ballon d'Or comments don't make sense in the Haaland BVB transfer, Juve would have been a much better candidate, but i guess Italy is not the place for strikers :lol: They also don't make sense in the Pogba to a struggling United from a on form Juventus where he was very well settled in the system. To me, his explanations are silly at times and contradictory at others, and the only thing that makes sense is money.
The CL and Ballon D'Or comment has nothing to do with Haaland and I don't really understand why you want to link unrelated points with each others, Pogba and Haaland aren't related. As for Pogba coming back he described it, in Jason Burt's interview, as a sentimental decision that Pogba made by himself.
 

jackal&hyde

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The CL and Ballon D'Or comment has nothing to do with Haaland and I don't really understand why you want to link unrelated points with each others, Pogba and Haaland aren't related. As for Pogba coming back he described it, in Jason Burt's interview, as a sentimental decision that Pogba made by himself.
Ok, well, we'l never see eye to eye in this issue i guess. To me, he always seems to have an excuse for everything raging from silly stereotypes to questioning some of the greats managers in football history, ex great players, to blaming current players if something hasn't worked out. I suppose when you are such a snake you have to come out swinging no matter who against or else you risk your employers seeing your true colors.

I just hope the club will never do business with him again and more clubs fallow.
 

ROFLUTION

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I'm sure there are a lot of football players out there who greatly depend on others to get through their life, but it's still a massive leap to just assume with certainty that Pogba is one of them. And because of what exactly? Because evil Raiola told him not to accept a (going by that anecdote) low-ball offer and instead got him to a club where played more, played in a better team and got more money for his services. Or because it now seems that Pogba would be rather playing for a club hoping to win the CL than a club hoping to qualify for it.
Well I do of course base it by the things that we the public can see. Pogba dismissed the opportunity to play and listen to one of the greatest managers of all time, and to do that and take a step in a completely new direction, you have to listen a lot to someone who assures you and tells you that you can succeed and be better off elsewhere (And Raiola was right - short term at least). So he moved, and therefore we can assume that he definitely listens to his agent a lot. It wasn't even like Pogba had patience with us. He moved at age 18 and Raiola was advocating all the time by then. Of course we can't say for certain that he depends on others like his agent to get through his life, and that wasn't what I meant.

I'm just saying Pogba clearly is influenced by him, and has been from a very young age. If someone gets it right the first time, you're even more likely to listen to him the next time - and that time happens to be where Raiola apparently makes 41m in agent-fees for a move that hasn't even been good for Pogba's career. But oh wait, don't worry, he'll just make it all good again by helping him to Real, PSG or Juve... of course for a massive agent fee, and now Pogba will surely be happy again. How unfortunate that Raiola made about 60m in the meantime.

I'm sure Raiola thinks the same in the Haaland case. Make Haaland think that Raiola has made the right move for him - he can definitely succeed at a club like Dortmund, and then Raiola will use his trust in him to sell him on when the hype and talent grows. Then it's payday again. (Not saying it's a bad move for Haaland btw, just that this is how Raiola works)
 

JPRouve

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Ok, well, we'l never see eye to eye in this issue i guess. To me, he always seems to have an excuse for everything raging from silly stereotypes to questioning some of the greats managers in football history, ex great players, to blaming current players if something hasn't worked out. I suppose when you are such a snake you have to come out swinging no matter who against or else you risk your employers seeing your true colors.

I just hope the club will never do business with him again and more clubs fallow.
I don't think that you are being rational here. You know that players will make career choices depending on the stage of their careers, you know that a 19 years old player won't have the same priorities than a 26 years old player, you know that players will fit some leagues and clubs better than others, there is nothing special about it that's how football works. As for the excuses part, are you genuinely going to say that United not being a CL contender is due to Pogba surely you realize that United don't have a good squad?

To me it seems that you want to blame Raiola for career choices that are ordinary. When Kroos decide to not sign a new contract with Bayern due to allegedly not being satisfied with Bayern's offer no one blames his agent(no one even cares about the identity of his agent), when Van Persie decides to leave Arsenal because they don't match his ambition no one blames his agent, when Di Maria goes to United and later admits that we weren't his priority no one blames Mendes. Mendes players move even more than Raiola's some of them make strange career choices like Ruben Neves signing for a Championship club from Porto,but apparently signing for Dortmund and Juventus when coming from the Austrian league and the Eredivisie is suspicious.

I know that some will think that I love Raiola but the thing is that to me something doesn't fit, I don't understand why an agent that doesn't have clients with strange career moves is the one suspected of doing weird moves. I don't get it when have transfers like Falcao to Monaco, Di Maria, Neves to Wolves or Rodriguez to Monaco in the last 5 or 6 years. I don't get it when we have relatively high profile players going to China at the strangest ages.
 

jackal&hyde

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Well I do of course base it by the things that we the public can see. Pogba dismissed the opportunity to play and listen to one of the greatest managers of all time, and to do that and take a step in a completely new direction, you have to listen a lot to someone who assures you and tells you that you can succeed and be better off elsewhere (And Raiola was right - short term at least). So he moved, and therefore we can assume that he definitely listens to his agent a lot. It wasn't even like Pogba had patience with us. He moved at age 18 and Raiola was advocating all the time by then. Of course we can't say for certain that he depends on others like his agent to get through his life, and that wasn't what I meant.

I'm just saying Pogba clearly is influenced by him, and has been from a very young age. If someone gets it right the first time, you're even more likely to listen to him the next time - and that time happens to be where Raiola apparently makes 41m in agent-fees for a move that hasn't even been good for Pogba's career. But oh wait, don't worry, he'll just make it all good again by helping him to Real, PSG or Juve... of course for a massive agent fee, and now Pogba will surely be happy again. How unfortunate that Raiola made about 60m in the meantime.

I'm sure Raiola thinks the same in the Haaland case. Make Haaland think that Raiola has made the right move for him - he can definitely succeed at a club like Dortmund, and then Raiola will use his trust in him to sell him on when the hype and talent grows. Then it's payday again. (Not saying it's a bad move for Haaland btw, just that this is how Raiola works)
I think it's important to understand that players are before all just young, inexperienced men and a lot of times have modest backgrounds that might not offer them much in terms of support and advice. Agents on the other hand actually make a living by being good with people, negotiating, influence, etc. This whole notion of agents having "agent fees" during transfers is just asking for trouble and a conflict of interests. When they go on the offensive to talk crap about legends of the game, people that actually bring value to the game instead of just profiting, that just leaves a bad taste in anyone's mouth. Still there are people convinced that SAF did not see the talent of Pogba or something but Raiola did... They are really just men of experience that use the influence they have over these young athletes to make the most money that they can while shooting down any manager or club that dares to say anything against them.
 

jackal&hyde

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I don't think that you are being rational here. You know that players will make career choices depending on the stage of their careers, you know that a 19 years old player won't have the same priorities than a 26 years old player, you know that players will fit some leagues and clubs better than others, there is nothing special about it that's how football works. As for the excuses part, are you genuinely going to say that United not being a CL contender is due to Pogba surely you realize that United don't have a good squad?

To me it seems that you want to blame Raiola for career choices that are ordinary. When Kroos decide to not sign a new contract with Bayern due to allegedly not being satisfied with Bayern's offer no one blames his agent(no one even cares about the identity of his agent), when Van Persie decides to leave Arsenal because they don't match his ambition no one blames his agent, when Di Maria goes to United and later admits that we weren't his priority no one blames Mendes. Mendes players move even more than Raiola's some of them make strange career choices like Ruben Neves signing for a Championship club from Porto,but apparently signing for Dortmund and Juventus when coming from the Austrian league and the Eredivisie is suspicious.

I know that some will think that I love Raiola but the thing is that to me something doesn't fit, I don't understand why an agent that doesn't have clients with strange career moves is the one suspected of doing weird moves. I don't get it when have transfers like Falcao to Monaco, Di Maria, Neves to Wolves or Rodriguez to Monaco in the last 5 or 6 years. I don't get it when we have relatively high profile players going to China at the strangest ages.
He is definitely not the only one like this out there. He is the most aggressive though both in his justifications and in the way he talks about clubs and people involved in those clubs.

The De Ligt transfer wasn't strange, his justification was. And imo when people have ridiculous justification they are simply lying.