PL L FA Premier League

Manchester United 0:2 Burnley

Post-match discussion


Wed, 22 January 2020

Utd heap

Models for Coin.
Joined
Aug 15, 2006
Messages
21,243
A few thoughts on tonight's game from the stand. I'd be interested to see if people agree or differ on these:
  1. First half was a decent performance and we should have been a couple up before Burnley scored. Martial and Mata both had air shots from decent Wan Bissaka crosses and Martial completely fecked up a 1 v 1 opportunity in the box. We all may have opted for slightly different elevens, but the starting team was well justified and played well.
  2. Ole panicked at half time and upset the balance of the team by getting Greenwood on for Pereira, who whilst being wasteful and shooting too often from outside the box, was providing an important role in linking the team. We were dreadful second half and the balance of the team was completely gone. This was exacerbated further when Shaw and Lingard were brought on for little real purpose.
  3. Why are we playing Daniel James on the left? He's right footed, his biggest assets are passing and crossing whilst on the run, and he's not scored since August. He offers no threat cutting inside and is never going to be a creative fulcrum in that position against a side defending deep. What's more is that he would perfectly compensate for Wan Bissaka's lack of attacking incisiveness by staying wide and allowing AWB to focus on the stronger parts of his game, but dropping into midfield and covering counterattacks. I was baffled to see James left and Greenwood right second half. James should have been on the right putting crosses in for Martial and Greenwood. I don't know what Ole is thinking here.
  4. Fred was incredibly poor tonight. He was utterly clueless on the edge of the Burnley box. As much as he improved in games where we have a midfield battle, he's not cut out for games against weaker sides at home. He wasn't the only wasteful one, but the analysts aren't doing their job if they are not instructing our midfielders to stop shooting from range. Time and time again we give the ball away with 1-2% shots instead of recycling it and waiting for a better option. Our club would be well served instructing all our players to no longer shoot outside of the penalty area and D, except for Greenwood. It's embarrassing how little we respect the ball and play with a patience for a good chance. We're either overplaying or just shooting: just keep it simple and move, gaps will come.
  5. As happened with James earlier on this season when he scored three goals from a little more than those shots, we're now in danger of overrating Greenwood, whose overall play is leaving a lot to be desired. He'll be a top player in time. but he really struggles to impact the game and isn't getting anywhere near the number of chances and shots needed to maintain his good goalscoring run. Second half tonight and against Wolves he was pretty anonymous. He's 18; that's expected. We need to be comfortable with him not always being on the pitch when we need a goal. He isn't the solution to every problem currently.
  6. Not buying a top centre forward will be a real mistake. Martial has a role at the club, but he's not at the level to our main centre forward. You buy a top centre forward, one who can act as the real focal point of the team, and hope that either this purchase does what is expected of them, or Martial steps up and improves, or both things happen. We cannot go forward with only Martial up top though. He's shown that he's not of a sufficient standard to spearhead a title challenge.
Some good reasoned observations there.
 

UnitedChampionsAgain

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
302
Shambolic but no surprise. Currently 11 points clear of relegation. Another 7 or 8 matches and we'll be there. This club is sinking like a coffin full of shit. THE END
 

Duncan the Great

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 13, 2015
Messages
76
Surely someone is talking to Poch behind closed doors ! Need him in s.a.p. to ensure he can start to identify possible summer signings, and I am 100% certain he will get this lot sorted out to perform something like. Unfortunately Ole hasn't a clue tactically or how to motivate players. On the injury front, it is more than coincidence that when teams are struggling to perform and loose confidence there seems to be an noticeable increase in injuries and players becoming unavailable for longer periods. This has happened at many clubs over many seasons especially at clubs in the relegation places, okay they might well be genuine injuries but players tend to get more injuries and take much longer to get fully fit again. I am a bit of a cynic but I am sure the statisticians' could prove my point.
Anyway that aside, legend or not, Ole must go NOW!
 
Joined
Jan 15, 2016
Messages
3,094
Location
Salford
Everything is wrong: terrible team, toxic boardroom, fan unrest growing by the day, dilapidated stadium, rock bottom morale....

A total shambles of a club.
 
Last edited:

AFC NimbleThumb

Full Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2019
Messages
8,285
We didn't sign him because he is English you weirdo.
The “Young” &/or “British” strapline was touted like an EDL rally.

If you think him ‘getting the club’ isn’t in some way tied to an outdated notion that he’s a ‘proper British CB’ then so be it but better CBs were on the market yet we chose to overpay for Maguire & his nationality played a huge part in us doing so.
 

sunama

Baghdad Bob
Joined
Apr 26, 2014
Messages
16,830

We have yet another negative record broken.
Ole's focus and commitment to break every record is admirable.
The problem is, that these are all negative records that he is now breaking.
 

United Hobbit

Full Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2019
Messages
8,636
Was very interesting listening to Rio and Crouch after the game and also Ole's post match interview, also shocking how ill he looked I know he'd been out in the cold but he really did look ill.

Very good to see the interviewer really press him to ask if he was being backed he really deflected the questions. He is usually so smooth in interviews I noticed after the Liverpool game when asked about Rashy and his back was the first time I've seen him look uncomfortable and again tonight.
I get he has his dream job and doesn't want to criticise but he could do it in a passive aggressive way eg "I've told the board the targets I would like and am putting my confidence in Ed and co to get the job done and secure them for me" that way he isnt calling them out or anything but is turning blame to them indirectly if they arent secured eg I've done my job they need to do theirs.

I was impressed by some of AWB's deliveries in the first half more of those Please. But why bring on J Lingz (who I dont think I recall being mentioned once after he came on apart from one shot he had) who hasnt scored or assisted in so long to get us a goal? I know the bench was limited but I'd have possibly given Gomes a go, something to prove may inspire him.

I've been Ole out camp for a while and yes it's sad he has failed and I did get excited when he went on his initial run, yes he has possibly the right idea and yes he is hindered by injuries but unfortunately not skilled enough to pull them off.

However we need to take the opportunity if we do sack him (we wont) to completely review the whole structure of the club for the remainder of the season. Each and every department. Move Ed to corporate only (though I'd be interested to know if his commercial success is due to his skill or being able to use what was our substantial reputation? How would he do securing sponsorship for say Burnley)
Appoint a DOF asap and use the rest of the season for them to interview managers and also for them to lay out a long term plan. Review all departments. Set up a programme with the scouting department. Review the medical and fitness departments. Basically go through the whole club top to bottom and make any changes necessary.
 

The Mitcher

connoisseur of pot noodles and sandwiches
Joined
May 26, 2012
Messages
19,309
Location
Manchester
The “Young” &/or “British” strapline was touted like an EDL rally.

If you think him ‘getting the club’ isn’t in some way tied to an outdated notion that he’s a ‘proper British CB’ then so be it but better CBs were on the market yet we chose to overpay for Maguire & his nationality played a huge part in us doing so.
No it wasn't, stop making shit up.
 

Ronaldo's Mum Eh?

Ronaldo is shite
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
5,292
Location
TORONTO
We didn't sign him because he is English you weirdo.
His garbageness is getting overlooked because he's English. If he was a foreigner we would've given him a lot more stick. Maguire however, has been by all accounts and absolute terrible buy.
 

pacifictheme

Full Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
Messages
7,666
You and the guy you quoted brightened up my night.
Detailed rant to follow tomorrow.
If I make you laugh along the way, sue me. And I don't do it so you turn round and go "Thank you moths for the opportunity, thank you for the wisdom, thank you for the laughs." I do it so, one day, someone will go "there goes nokillingmoths. I must remember to thank him".
 

Banana Republic

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Messages
1,272
Bringing in Bruno won’t make any difference on its own.
Anyone who thinks this single signing will change much, is dreaming.
Sacking Ole won’t change much either.
The forwards and attacking MF are hopelessly sub-par.
All of them are lightweight, have no physical presence, can’t get passed defenders, can’t win balls or tackle and none of them are natural strikers or goal poachers.
Greenwood is a great looking prospect, but he’s still far too young and inexperienced to produce the goods on a regular basis.

We might still be 5th, but we’re closer to Newcastle in 14th place (only 4 points behind on 30 points), than we are to Chelsea in 4th (6 points ahead on 40 points).
We are 17 points behind City and 17 points above Norwich, in bottom place.
We are closer in points to a relegation place than to Leicester, in 3rd place.
It’s only a dire season for both Spurs and Arsenal and a few points dropped by the other 7 teams just behind us, that’s kept us out of the bottom half of the table.
Basically, our league position is a lucky fluke.

Rio is right. It’s embarrassing.
What has all that money been spent on? It’s bought us worst than nothing.
A massive wage bill, buying us these sort of performances.
Something has to change soon.
 

Luke1995

Full Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
3,444
Why is Ole always on the bench ? He should be at the touchline screaming off the top of his lungs
 

Luke1995

Full Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
3,444
The players always look like they don't know if they should play more in the middle or in the wings. Where's the tactical plan ?
 

Danillaco

Full Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
4,131
Location
Rio
Love Ole. But he wasn't my first choice last season. Let's face it, if he was anyone else, he wouldn't have got the job, much less kept.

He shut my mouth with that run in the beginning but after that was downhill.

For me it's enough. Can't take this. It's almost unbearable to watch games in the past few years.

I thought we had something cooking with Mourinho and that went to shit, almost an year passed by and now we are worse.

Absolute diabolic.

Woodward is a disgrace. The reverse Midas.
 

The Irish Connection

Full Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2017
Messages
2,272
Terrible. Unacceptable that you need a win at home against Burnley to get close to 4th and blow it.
Injuries are bad but still.
Not starting Greenwood and taking pereira off instead of James was wrong imo.
And the fact that the club tried to con us into thinking that spending 15m on a decent championship left winger who would sometimes play on the right would be good enough...it’s disgraceful.
The amount of times Williams overlapped but was never played in!
 

Revaulx

Full Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
6,031
Location
Saddleworth
Left after the disallowed goal. I was too fecked off by that point
We stayed until the end. Such a stupidly late kick off meant there was no chance of a post-match curry, so we waited for the crowd to subside. Had to endure the ignominy of rejoicing Burnley fans on the way to the tram.
 

The Irish Connection

Full Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2017
Messages
2,272
I have one solid question for you lot.

How could we be certain that new manager would make sign the needed additions to that depleted squad?
We can’t, but a director of football should have been employed years ago to ensure continuity in the type of players targeted and style of football despite a coach not working out, and also to make us less inept at transfer negotiations.
That Fellaini summer still gives me nightmares.
 

Josep Dowling

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
7,622
It's Pogba's fault :wenger:
This notion makes me laugh so much. We looked much better in the games in has been involved with this season. We were shite before he arrived and we will even more shite when he leaves.

Everyone blamed Lukaku last season and now he’s one of the top scorers in Europe. Fellaini before that.
 

Dr Fink

Full Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
606
Location
Purgatory
Utter sh*t show tonight. Poor from start to finish. Just got home from the match now and wondered why I bothered. Mata wide right initially. WTF. Moved him to the 10 role and it made a bit of a difference. Williams off, Shaw on, like for like. At that point I gave up. He doesn’t know what he’s doing. The match going fans other than myself turned tonight. Loads of empty seats and loads left early. Roads were reasonably quiet on the way home too. The beginning of the end.......
 

always_hoping

Full Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
7,535
Just back from that depressing watch of a game. Worst part of that defeat was Burnley was rubbish, could bearly string 3 passes together and yet they go home with a 2-0 win.

Burnley on their last two visits to Old Trafford were denied victories with United grabbing draws with injury time goals so I suppose that win for coming for them.

United were hopeless, even before the first goal, truly awful defending on the set piece and as I said to the fella beside me who are leaders on this United team to turn it around?

Out of nothing 2-0, a fine strike in fairness but United stupidly loss possession. Could have played to next week and wouldn't have scored, the lack of creativity in this United team is unbelievable.

With 14 league games to go United could well finish below the 6th place prediction I gave.
 

Bastian

Full Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
18,444
Supports
Mejbri
I'd say a 5/10 performance for the team as a whole. Matic was decent. AWB alright going forward. Felt sorry for Jones when the crowd was booing him. He doesn't select himself.
 

Sing you a song

Full Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2017
Messages
670
Terrible. Unacceptable that you need a win at home against Burnley to get close to 4th and blow it.
Injuries are bad but still.
Not starting Greenwood and taking pereira off instead of James was wrong imo.
And the fact that the club tried to con us into thinking that spending 15m on a decent championship left winger who would sometimes play on the right would be good enough...it’s disgraceful.
The amount of times Williams overlapped but was never played in!
me need to remember that James was bought as a squad player to learn his trade he never should have played this many games and he looks absolutely shattered and bereft of confidence he is playing week in week out because we have no other options .
I think we all would have started Greenwood but when he did come on he made very little difference, difficult for a striker to score goals if the midfield is not capable of creating chances.
This is the worst midfield I have ever seen at United ( just look at their goals and assists tally to Confirm this )
Martial is a complete fraud has a good game every 5 or 6 games the rest of the time wanders around looking disinterested no wonder he never gets near the French squad .
Just returned home after the game feeling battered and bruised . I’m sure Ole will ultimately pay the price for failure but our squad is abysmal and not replacing Lukaku , Sanchez and Herrera Was just disgraceful
 

Josep Dowling

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
7,622
We can’t, but a director of football should have been employed years ago to ensure continuity in the type of players targeted and style of football despite a coach not working out, and also to make us less inept at transfer negotiations.
That Fellaini summer still gives me nightmares.
DOF would make a massive difference. As Ferdinand said when was the last time we actually signed someone by looking at the team and thinking how they work with what we have?

Every manager has played a different system, style, formation. Ole has regularly changed formation this season. Signs James who prefers LW when we had no RW in the squad. Signs Maguire who lacks pace but he wants to play high press (not that I’ve ever seen us execute this properly). There is no thought process on recruitment. It’s just obvious signings.
 

NewGlory

United make me feel dirty. And not in a sexy way.
Joined
Jul 13, 2019
Messages
4,240
Not to take anything from a shite form we are in but it needs to be mentioned that we got at least one clear goal denied (Shaw's) for no reason and that challenge on Greenwood on 67th should also have been a red card. Small things - big difference. Shit refs
 

Revaulx

Full Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
6,031
Location
Saddleworth
I honestly believe you could take any guy between the ages of 19 and 35 out of the stands tonight and they would have been no better or no worse than Lingard for those 25 minutes.
Ageist bollocks.

I’m 62 and wouldn’t have been brushed off the ball as easily as Lingard was tonight.
 

Heinzesight

Full Member
Joined
May 12, 2005
Messages
6,271
Location
Manchester
Sad thing is that Burnley didn’t even bust a gut or play that well. They were just well drilled. It’s feeling like the end of last season where we were in freefall.
 

nobby the legend

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
198
Why so many people think that DOF will make a difference? He is going to be appointed by the same board.
 

Dr. Dwayne

Self proclaimed tagline king.
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
97,255
Location
Nearer my Cas, to thee
Not to take anything from a shite form we are in but it needs to be mentioned that we got at least one clear goal denied (Shaw's) for no reason and that challenge on Greenwood on 67th should also have been a red card. Small things - big difference. Shit refs
Everyone's putting the boot in now that we're down. fecking cnut referees.
 

Player Ratings

4.0 Total Average Rating

Highest Rated Player

Lowest Rated Player

Compiled from 271 ratings.

Score Predictions

232,9,43
  • Man Utd win
  • Burnley win
  • Draw

Detailed Results

  • 32% Man Utd 2:0 Burnley
  • 15% Man Utd 2:1 Burnley
  • 15% Man Utd 1:0 Burnley
  • 11% Man Utd 3:0 Burnley
  • 9% Man Utd 1:1 Burnley
  • 5% Man Utd 0:0 Burnley
  • 4% Man Utd 3:1 Burnley
  • 2% Man Utd 5:0 Burnley
  • 1% Man Utd 0:1 Burnley
  • 1% Man Utd 1:2 Burnley
  • 1% Man Utd 4:0 Burnley
  • 1% Man Utd 4:1 Burnley
  • 1% Man Utd 0:2 Burnley
  • 1% Man Utd 2:2 Burnley
  • 0% Man Utd 4:2 Burnley
  • 0% Man Utd 0:5 Burnley
  • 0% Man Utd 3:2 Burnley
Compiled from 284 predictions.
Show more results Score Predictions League Table

Match Stats

  1. Man Utd
  2. Burnley
Possession
72% 28%
Shots
24 5
Shots on Target
7 2
Corners
5 2
Fouls
11 7

Referee

Jonathan Moss