[roseguy64]

Unlikely considering we're without our three best players for the remainder of the season.

Which three players are those?

 

[roseguy64]

I heard he isn't going to the foreign training - maybe not everyone is?

Doubt he's able to keep up with the rest of the team so that's probably why he's not going

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Most people in Manchester I chat to (mates, family, co-workers, randoms in the pub) all say this about the rebuild and getting rid of the bad culture in the squad will take time

But online it's mainly people wanting to sack Ole in the hope of immediate success...

Nothing to do with immediate success but more to do with Ole being so far out of his depth he's drowning. He just doesn't know it yet.

Game has 0-0 written all over it.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Nothing to do with immediate success but more to do with Ole being so far out of his depth he's drowning. He just doesn't know it yet.

Game has 0-0 written all over it.

The 'bad culture' at the club will never change as long as this mediocre man is in charge of the team. Our manager thinks a 0-0 draw at home, without a meaningful shot on target, and no changes of note until the 87th minute, is more than acceptable.

THAT is a bad culture. Settling for absolute mediocrity. Fergie would be disgusted to play for a point at home to a supposedly lesser team, even if his entire starting 11 was out injured - a lot of fans have rewritten history regarding 'the United way' and what we used to stand for.

 

[Offside]

1 win there since 2002 in the league. Utterly ridiculous. Even before these shite got money they always had our number too.

 

[Raven]

Pretty sure we'll nab a win in this one. We'll come back much stronger after the break.

 

[Turnip]

Is McT due back in time? Want to see him in a midfield 3 with Fernandes and Fred now he's found some form.

Ighalo is a top top player but Anthony knows the club and the demands of being a Man United player.

And repeatedly fails to meet them standards. At least Ighalo knows to make a run when someone's in a position to cross (hopefully).

I'm a big Martial fan, but he's earned some time on the bench, he clearly needs some motivation to try a bit harder when on the pitch rather than basically being guaranteed to start because we have no one else.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

Nothing to do with immediate success but more to do with Ole being so far out of his depth he's drowning. He just doesn't know it yet.

Game has 0-0 written all over it.

My point was, as a manc I only hear people in Manchester saying Ole just needs time and another managerial change won't help. But in contrast, people online keep wanting him sacked - no patience, no real understanding of what United need to do.

 

[Raw]

1 win there since 2002 in the league. Utterly ridiculous. Even before these shite got money they always had our number too.

Recently been pretty good there in the cups though!

 

[Jonno]

As out of his depth and full of excuses as he's been with each failure to win a game recently, they have looked dead on their feet. The likes of AWB, Fred, Maguire etc really do need a solid rest and recuperation.
Fingers crossed they come back fitter, fresher with 2-3 players back from injury and with Bruno & Ighalo well up to speed with the squad.

This game is a must not lose. Lose and I think top 4 is dead. Draw and we are just about still in for it. Win and it's on.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

As out of his depth and full of excuses as he's been with each failure to win a game recently, they have looked dead on their feet. The likes of AWB, Fred, Maguire etc really do need a solid rest and recuperation.
Fingers crossed they come back fitter, fresher with 2-3 players back from injury and with Bruno & Ighalo well up to speed with the squad.

This game is a must not lose. Lose and I think top 4 is dead. Draw and we are just about still in for it. Win and it's on.

When Managers like Van Gaal and Mourinho (who each totally changed the games during their time in the game) can't sort the club out then you should accept that the problems run way deeper than the manager.

Ole is clearing all the shit from the squad and trying to rebuild. A process like this takes a few years. Yes sometimes it's shit to watch, but we're 5th not in a relegation battle.

Amazing that after chopping and changing managers for the last 6 years (with no beneift to speak of) some fans still think that is the right approach.

As Fergie said 'short-termism' doesn't work.

 

[Roboc7]

It’s sort of game we’ll win and then not win any of next 4/5 games.

 

[Random Task]

Which three players are those?

Mctominay and Rashford, who are both sidelined for a lengthy spell, and Pogba, who I recently discovered begun training on Monday and is on course for a return against Chelsea. Fingers crossed.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

It’s sort of game we’ll win and then not win any of next 4/5 games.

With Rashford I'd fancy our chances a lot. Chelsea seem scared of him. Can't see us scoring without him and it doesn't look like Pogba will be fit in time either.

Our season will come down to the Europa League and FA cup now.

 

[Pav1878]

Ighalo is a top top player but Anthony knows the club and the demands of being a Man United player.

 

[Red For Ever]

I am sure I read somewhere that they could be back after the winter break,however despite how desperate we are Ole shouldn't rush them back again

I agree. although we are desperate, better to wait, rather than be injured again by bringing them back to early

 

[Red For Ever]

Don't think so. Neither are expected to travel for training camp.

i thought so, but saw a few people had them in their line ups, so wondered if I had missed something

Wish they were correct, but as you say, not likely

 

[sunama]

Most people in Manchester I chat to (mates, family, co-workers, randoms in the pub) all say this about the rebuild and getting rid of the bad culture in the squad will take time

But online it's mainly people wanting to sack Ole in the hope of immediate success...

So, they've bought the PR that Woodward is spinning.
Some people are extremely gullible.

 

[sunama]

When Managers like Van Gaal and Mourinho (who each totally changed the games during their time in the game) can't sort the club out then you should accept that the problems run way deeper than the manager.

Ole is clearing all the shit from the squad and trying to rebuild. A process like this takes a few years. Yes sometimes it's shit to watch, but we're 5th not in a relegation battle.

We are in 7th place, with the mighty Spurs, managed by Jose (who many felt was not good enough for us), 2 places ahead of us. And the giants of World football, Sheff Utd, also ahead of us.
What's also interesting is that you seem quite content with 5th. Ole and Woodward have brain washed so many fans , that they now believe that 5th place is some form of achievement.
I will remind you that 2 years ago, under Jose were in 2nd and many fans were unhappy about this. They wanted 1st place. Now, even 5th (or 7th) is fine.

EPL table:

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

We are in 7th place, with the mighty Spurs, managed by Jose (who many felt was not good enough for us), 2 places ahead of us. And the giants of World football, Sheff Utd, also ahead of us.
What's also interesting is that you seem quite content with 5th. Ole and Woodward have brain washed so many fans , that they now believe that 5th place is some form of achievement.
I will remind you that 2 years ago, under Jose were in 2nd and many fans were unhappy about this. They wanted 1st place. Now, even 5th (or 7th) is fine.

EPL table:

Fans need to accept that English football has, and will never, be like Spain and Germany where 1 or 2 clubs will always win the league. English football is very competitive.

United can't expect to dominate like the Ferguson era for ever. It was a wonderful time but had to end. United will always be the biggest club in England but fans who know football before the 1992/3 season remember well reality of what came before (and still fecking loved being United fans and experiencing some great highs and lows)

Accept that we are in a rebuilding phase - at a time when the league is more competitive than ever. We're not where we want to be, but we're not free falling. Some patience is needed.

Klopp took time, finishing 8th I think initially. They stuck to a plan and over a few years have seen improvement each year. Ole's first task was clearing out the utter dross that have been stealing a wage for year, he's doing fine at that.

Yes United need more players that will cost big. The Glazers are parasites but United's transfer spending over the last 6 years is way more than Liverpool who are Champions of Europe and now walking the league. United have pissed so many millions up the wall, it suprises me that people think simply splashing cash is going to work.

United need to build a culture from the ground up. Ole is a United guy and better we have someone like him doing the rebuild than just sack him to get another mercenary in for 2 years before firing him.

 

[croadyman]

Fans need to accept that English football has, and will never, be like Spain and Germany where 1 or 2 clubs will always win the league. English football is very competitive.

United can't expect to dominate like the Ferguson era for ever. It was a wonderful time but had to end. United will always be the biggest club in England but fans who know football before the 1992/3 season remember well reality of what came before (and still fecking loved being United fans and experiencing some great highs and lows)

Accept that we are in a rebuilding phase - at a time when the league is more competitive than ever. We're not where we want to be, but we're not free falling. Some patience is needed.

Klopp took time, finishing 8th I think initially. They stuck to a plan and over a few years have seen improvement each year. Ole's first task was clearing out the utter dross that have been stealing a wage for year, he's doing fine at that.

Yes United need more players that will cost big. The Glazers are parasites but United's transfer spending over the last 6 years is way more than Liverpool who are Champions of Europe and now walking the league. United have pissed so many millions up the wall, it suprises me that people think simply splashing cash is going to work.

United need to build a culture from the ground up. Ole is a United guy and better we have someone like him doing the rebuild than just sack him to get another mercenary in for 2 years before firing him.

I am in favour of a rebuild but just feel that it doesn't have to be Ole in charge of it. His in game management leaves a lot to be desired and feel we can still appoint a new manager without ripping up the foundations again.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

I am in favour of a rebuild but just feel that it doesn't have to be Ole in charge of it. His in game management leaves a lot to be desired and feel we can still appoint a new manager without ripping up the foundations again.

From the outside it's impossible to know what tactical instructions he's giving players. I'm sure Ole and Mike Phelan know how to set up a team. Questioning their knowledge of the game is daft, the problem is that he doesn't have the quality in the squad to execute a game plan suitable for United.

This season was always going to be tough and I don't think anyone with a realistic understanding of the game expected United to challenge for anything this season.

The club needs stablility - sacking Ole and bringing in another 'big name' chasing short term gains is akin to the man who built his house on sand.

It seems clear that this year is being used to clear the decks of all the shit players, then in summer we'll have a clear picture of what type of player we need to recruit. There's no way the squad will be this thin come the start of next season.

The fans need to support Ole and accept that building something that can give United a foundation for long term sucess takes a couple of years.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

DDG
AWB Maguire Shaw
Dalot Fred Matic Williams
Bruno
Greenwood Martial
​

Bench: Romero, Lindelof, Jones, Garner, Mata, James, Ighalo FC

 

[Jonno]

When Managers like Van Gaal and Mourinho (who each totally changed the games during their time in the game) can't sort the club out then you should accept that the problems run way deeper than the manager.

Ole is clearing all the shit from the squad and trying to rebuild. A process like this takes a few years. Yes sometimes it's shit to watch, but we're 5th not in a relegation battle.

Amazing that after chopping and changing managers for the last 6 years (with no beneift to speak of) some fans still think that is the right approach.

As Fergie said 'short-termism' doesn't work.

He's doing well at clearing the shit, I am a big fan of his dealings in the transfer market and knowing what type of player he wants.

He doesn't strike me as a top tier manager however, and he's at a top tier club in terms of stature and expectancy. He will never transform players, get 200% out them.

We need someone as big as Klopp or Pep in the sense of how they train players, teach their philosophies and transform the squads mentalities.

We look a soft touch. We look like we want people to feel sorry for ourselves, we get knocked off the ball by faster, stronger more willing players, regardless of their talent or ability.

No wonder we look a soft touch when Ole pats them on the back and says well played when we draw 0-0 to Wolves, or lose every other week.

The winning mentality has been obliterated. Yes we're 6th now, thats just about acceptable for where the club is right now, but we could quite easily be 10th, or 12th (and we have been for parts this season).

It's unforgivable to get beat by Burnley at home, I'm sorry but that is just the latest example of how shoddy Ole's operation is at United. He's not seen the gaping obvious issues, you don't let Burnley bully you off the ball, get set pieces, have space on the edge of the box. It's scandalous.

I like him, I like his transfers, I like his playing career, he's a legend to me. And I appreciate he's trying his best, to the best of his ability. And thats why we're 6th and not at Leicester/Spurs level. It's not good enough if we want to be a top tier club.

Just because we shouldn't be a sacking club, why does that mean we should make people immune from the sack even if they're not good enough? Are you happy with Ole's reasoning when we only win on average 1 game per month?

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

He's doing well at clearing the shit, I am a big fan of his dealings in the transfer market and knowing what type of player he wants.

He doesn't strike me as a top tier manager however, and he's at a top tier club in terms of stature and expectancy. He will never transform players, get 200% out them.

We need someone as big as Klopp or Pep in the sense of how they train players, teach their philosophies and transform the squads mentalities.

We look a soft touch. We look like we want people to feel sorry for ourselves, we get knocked off the ball by faster, stronger more willing players, regardless of their talent or ability.

No wonder we look a soft touch when Ole pats them on the back and says well played when we draw 0-0 to Wolves, or lose every other week.

The winning mentality has been obliterated. Yes we're 6th now, thats just about acceptable for where the club is right now, but we could quite easily be 10th, or 12th (and we have been for parts this season).

It's unforgivable to get beat by Burnley at home, I'm sorry but that is just the latest example of how shoddy Ole's operation is at United. He's not seen the gaping obvious issues, you don't let Burnley bully you off the ball, get set pieces, have space on the edge of the box. It's scandalous.

I like him, I like his transfers, I like his playing career, he's a legend to me. And I appreciate he's trying his best, to the best of his ability. And thats why we're 6th and not at Leicester/Spurs level. It's not good enough if we want to be a top tier club.

Just because we shouldn't be a sacking club, why does that mean we should make people immune from the sack even if they're not good enough? Are you happy with Ole's reasoning when we only win on average 1 game per month?

I agree that we're not good enough. And it's terrible watching United getting bullied at home to Burnley and languishing in 6/7. My view is we just have to suck it up at this point and let Ole have the time to either suceed or fail.

If there's no clear sign of improvement this time next year then it's going to be very hard to defend Ole. But I think it's important to let him have the summer window and see what next season brings. For all we know we could win Europa and be in the CL next year.

I get what you say about having a top level manager coming in, but if I put my doubt aside about that I do have to question who that would be?

 

[Siorac]

Fans need to accept that English football has, and will never, be like Spain and Germany where 1 or 2 clubs will always win the league. English football is very competitive.

United can't expect to dominate like the Ferguson era for ever. It was a wonderful time but had to end. United will always be the biggest club in England but fans who know football before the 1992/3 season remember well reality of what came before (and still fecking loved being United fans and experiencing some great highs and lows)

Whatever you think of Ole or any of our previous managers, this type of argument always struck me as incredibly disingenuous. Yes, we cannot expect to dominate all the time but, considering the resources and fanbase we have, the expectation that we should be consistently among the four best teams in England is absolutely reasonable. The further away a manager is from being able to match even that very conservative target, the more likely it is that he will be criticised. Currently, we look very far from that, considering we are on pace for a points total that usually lands you somewhere between 7th and 11th place.

At this point, there's very little evidence that our current coaching staff can turn this around and you simply cannot blame fans for being concerned that we're going to get trapped in mid-table obscurity, in a perpetual rebuilding phase.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

Whatever you think of Ole or any of our previous managers, this type of argument always struck me as incredibly disingenuous. Yes, we cannot expect to dominate all the time but, considering the resources and fanbase we have, the expectation that we should be consistently among the four best teams in England is absolutely reasonable. The further away a manager is from being able to match even that very conservative target, the more likely it is that he will be criticised. Currently, we look very far from that, considering we are on pace for a points total that usually lands you somewhere between 7th and 11th place.

At this point, there's very little evidence that our current coaching staff can turn this around and you simply cannot blame fans for being concerned that we're going to get trapped in mid-table obscurity, in a perpetual rebuilding phase.

I appreciate all the points you make and it's a strong arguement, I understand why the expectations are high!

However, we've been waaay off being at United standard for the last 7 years, with each managerial change ultimately leaving us worse off than their predecessor.

You're right that there is no evidence Ole will turn it around. But there is evidence that the current mess United are in is not his fault.

I think that as Ole has done well at shipping out a lot of shit players he deserves time to build his own squad. I hope in the Summer he gets to bolster the squad with real quality.

If a year from now we're in the same boat, having spent big, then it will be hard to defend Ole and he'd deserve the sack.

I struggle with the arguement of replacing him now because having been through an array of managers in recent years I'm not sure what type of manager would suit is best. And the squad will be shit whoever is in charge - that's why I think Ole deserves more time and the next transfer window.

 

[Siorac]

But there is evidence that the current mess United are in is not his fault.

I think that as Ole has done well at shipping out a lot of shit players he deserves time to build his own squad.

It's not enough to say that the current mess isn't his fault: he also needs to show some evidence that he can improve on it. Otherwise there's no point.

Getting rid of shite players isn't really a skill or a managerial quality. You bring in a manager, you tell them to reduce the wage bill by getting rid of players they don't want - boom, done, they'll do their best to ship out the shite. It is, on its own, meaningless. It's only a skill if you manage to trim the squad WHILE keeping results at an acceptable level. I could also reduce the size of the squad if the subsequent downturn in performances didn't actually have consequences for my job security. I don't see why it entitles anyone to build their own squad.

I'm reluctant to say that Ole should be fired, but really only for one simple reason at this point: I'm afraid that the club leadership will do something incredibly stupid, like, I don't know, they'll pay 50m to Everton for Ancelotti or something like that. This is not really a rational position but honestly, there's not much else. There is a pretty weak argument that another, more accomplished manager would demand more resources to get immediate results and wouldn't go along without rocking the boat. That's not a good enough justification to keep a manager around though.

I hope we beat Chelsea and I hope we somehow qualify for the CL. But if a better, more accomplished, more qualified manager is willing to work at United, we should make that happen regardless.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

It's not enough to say that the current mess isn't his fault: he also needs to show some evidence that he can improve on it. Otherwise there's no point.

Getting rid of shite players isn't really a skill or a managerial quality. You bring in a manager, you tell them to reduce the wage bill by getting rid of players they don't want - boom, done, they'll do their best to ship out the shite. It is, on its own, meaningless. It's only a skill if you manage to trim the squad WHILE keeping results at an acceptable level. I could also reduce the size of the squad if the subsequent downturn in performances didn't actually have consequences for my job security. I don't see why it entitles anyone to build their own squad.

I'm reluctant to say that Ole should be fired, but really only for one simple reason at this point: I'm afraid that the club leadership will do something incredibly stupid, like, I don't know, they'll pay 50m to Everton for Ancelotti or something like that. This is not really a rational position but honestly, there's not much else. There is a pretty weak argument that another, more accomplished manager would demand more resources to get immediate results and wouldn't go along without rocking the boat. That's not a good enough justification to keep a manager around though.

I hope we beat Chelsea and I hope we somehow qualify for the CL. But if a better, more accomplished, more qualified manager is willing to work at United, we should make that happen regardless.

I get what you're saying but results and performances have been shit for years now - getting rid of the shit players is the first part of the process.

I think the club are trying to learn from previous mistakes of throwing big money around just to sign 'big names' or to have cover in the squad.
Clearly United's squad is wafer thin and it's costing us dearly, but I view that as a symptom of how bad the squad had been allowed to get previously.

If I thought that there was a great Manager out there who could improve things I'd be up for replacing Ole. But I just don't see a viable option available at the moment. So i am happy to back Ole and am prepared to expect nothing from this season with the hope of a good summer transfer window and things improving next season, which is a gamble. But getting a differeny manager is a gamble too.

 

[passing-wind]

Most important game of the season thus far, if Ole loses he seals his destiny.

 

[McGrathsipan]

Most important game of the season thus far, if Ole loses he seals his destiny.

You wish.

 

[passing-wind]

You wish.

He won't be sacked through the season but I'm fairly certain he'll be relinquished if our form doesn't improve and we miss out on top four. 200 million spent, no progress under Solskjaer's management, worse points total compared to Moyes, lowest win rate of any recent manager post SAF proofs in the pudding.

 

[McGrathsipan]

He won't be sacked through the season but I'm fairly certain he'll be relinquished if our form doesn't improve and we miss out on top four. 200 million spent, no progress under Solskjaer's management, worse points total compared to Moyes, lowest win rate of any recent manager post SAF proofs in the pudding.

I'd tend to agree.
He's got to get top 4

 

[Jonno]

I get what you're saying but results and performances have been shit for years now - getting rid of the shit players is the first part of the process.

I think the club are trying to learn from previous mistakes of throwing big money around just to sign 'big names' or to have cover in the squad.
Clearly United's squad is wafer thin and it's costing us dearly, but I view that as a symptom of how bad the squad had been allowed to get previously.

If I thought that there was a great Manager out there who could improve things I'd be up for replacing Ole. But I just don't see a viable option available at the moment. So i am happy to back Ole and am prepared to expect nothing from this season with the hope of a good summer transfer window and things improving next season, which is a gamble. But getting a differeny manager is a gamble too.

You say results have been shite for years now, but Mourinho had us winning trophies again, getting us in the CL, even a 2nd place PL finish, even LVG won the FA Cup.

I think Ole doesn't have that extra 20-30% that is required to be a winning manager and for that reason we'll always slightly underachieve and he'll keep telling us it will get better. Problem is we can't trust him, because he doesn't quite realise that it's his ability thats weighing us down, he's entered the delusional stage. I'm willing to re-visit this in 2 years time when we're still languishing around 6th place and ultimately he will lose his job. Why wait?

Spurs will comfortably finish above us, because Spurs have a comfortably better manager. They were destined for 10th place, now they're destined for 3rd/4th.

 

[Jonno]

He won't be sacked through the season but I'm fairly certain he'll be relinquished if our form doesn't improve and we miss out on top four. 200 million spent, no progress under Solskjaer's management, worse points total compared to Moyes, lowest win rate of any recent manager post SAF proofs in the pudding.

Unfair comparison. Moyes took over the Champions of England.

 

[Bestofthebest]

Would settle for any sort of draw but most likely 0-0 because I can’t see us scoring. Worst case scenario is a 3-0 defeat, or more, because this could be the start of a serious slide down the table. Very worried about where the goals would come from for us for rest of season.

 

[prateik]

will win this.. easily.. keep stuttering in the league though..

Europa league is where its at.. Get Pogba fit and that is there to be won.

 

[tombombadil]

The more this is a "must win" game, the more doubtful I am that we're gonna win it. This team is great at subverting expectations.

Sigh. I better stop thinking about the game until the day before kick off. I'll live longer. Haha.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

You say results have been shite for years now, but Mourinho had us winning trophies again, getting us in the CL, even a 2nd place PL finish, even LVG won the FA Cup.

I think Ole doesn't have that extra 20-30% that is required to be a winning manager and for that reason we'll always slightly underachieve and he'll keep telling us it will get better. Problem is we can't trust him, because he doesn't quite realise that it's his ability thats weighing us down, he's entered the delusional stage. I'm willing to re-visit this in 2 years time when we're still languishing around 6th place and ultimately he will lose his job. Why wait?

Spurs will comfortably finish above us, because Spurs have a comfortably better manager. They were destined for 10th place, now they're destined for 3rd/4th.

Yes Mourinho started well but couldn't sustain it, it was utterly toxic and he had to leave. He was never the right manager for United. Your statement is a very rose tinted view of his tenure.
Van Gaal is one of the true greats of the game - he was perhaps slowly making some progress BUT it was utterly tumescent to watch, painful shit. He spent a shit load of money and failed transfers and made bad misjudgments on which players should leave the club and which should stay.
Both have their shave of blame in our current mess.

So two of the best coachs of the last 30 years failed here. Who is it you think will come in and fix things quicker than Ole?

Spurs are finishing above us because they have a better squad of players. If Mou was still managing United and Ole was managing Spurs - spurs would still be finishing above United.

Your 20-30% statement is nonsense - people said Fergie was delusional in 89. None of us know if Ole is going to work out, but since he's been chosen to do this rebuild we should give him the required time before judging him

 

[Brightonian]

Honestly I feel more confident facing these than Wolves. Chelsea like to have plenty of the ball, and have been vulnerable on the counter. That's our ideal opponent.

Lot of ifs in terms of the line-up. I'm assuming neither Pogba or McT will be back. I wouldn't want Ole to rush either. I think Ighalo might be match fit by the time the break is over. Given that, I'd go with one of the below.

DDG
AWB Lindelof Maguire Shaw
Fred Matic
Bruno
James Ighalo Martial

DDG
Lindelof Maguire Shaw
Dalot Fred Matic Williams
Bruno
James Martial​