No, I do not know who we are targetting, it is all speculation.
I agree some will be put off us, but it is what it is.
We have missed out on big names before in the past too so It's not like it is Ole's fault.
The “Ole In” Brigade
- Thread starter Lentwood
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
I agree some will be put off us, but it is what it is.
We have missed out on big names before in the past too so It's not like it is Ole's fault.
Exactly, we need to sit down and figure out what we need, the best person for that is a DoF.
There has to been this transfer strategy to suit the manager, now we see it changing to suit the club.
The one thing we are lacking currently is a technical footballer.
And more likely to miss out on more with Ole in charge because he has no credibility as a manager and has done a bad job. His job is harder than last summer, doesn’t mean can’t sign anyone.
You’ve tried to compare him to Klopp and Pep but reality is you can’t. Outspending every manager and team performing worse can’t be sold as progress.
His job is harder this summer is your opinion. He might feel it will be easier cause he has got rid of the players he didnt want so he can concentrate on getting the ones he does want in.
Yes so lets compare spending over 1 season ? how much money did both managers get in their first few seasons?
Ole has spent over 200m, more than every other Premier League manager this season so he’s outspent them all. The team has got worse, still play rubbish football and Ole is still under qualified and hasn’t done anything to prove otherwise.
It’ll be a lot tougher if he’s sacked which is what happened to Moyes and LVG which is very real possibility. It will be harder to recruit players that’s just common sense. Do you think they don’t want to play in Europe or want to play for a team getting worse?. Sometimes you just have to face facts.
Seriously get a grip mate, he has spent £200m but including a player that has played 1 game, talk about agenda.
You acting as if there is only 10 players to sign, there are alot of players in the market.
Unfortunately its more complex then that. Having a DOF relieves pressure from the manager who can now focus on his job rather then on scouting and having to give the thumbs up or down to transfers. It also increases accountability. If all transfers fail to make an impact than that's the DOF's fault. However if the players are doing well but we keep losing games because of the same tactical errors then its evident that the fault lies elsewhere example the manager.
However, a DOF by himself isn't enough. First of all there's a reason why we haven't signed a DOF and that is that United are manager oriented. We have a system in place which was built around Sir Alex which is basically the following. The manager is the Leonardo/Michelangelo/Mozart of football, he knows what he's doing, he loves the clubs, he's sensitive and proud therefore don't put overheads on him else we risk pissing him off enough to retire. You see managers and DOFs often work hand in hand but there will be times when they will clash. The manager is the person who trains players and get emotional invested in them. Emotion goes against logic. For example a manager might want an ex player to come to the club, he might want to keep a long servant to the club happy on full salary even though it doesn't make economical sense to do so etc. However DOFs aren't infallible eithers. For example DOFs might see the big picture with total disregard about the present. Take Monchi at Roma as an example. The guy went for long term future signings (Under, Schick, Zaniolo, Pellegrini, Kluivert, Coric, Cristante etc) and bargains (ex Santon). He couldn't care less that he was stripping the manager from regular first team players like Salah, Rudiger and Nainggolan who were crucial for the first team in the process. Something similar happened this year at Juventus with Paratici. Sarri wanted Can out, Paratici thought it wasn't a good idea as Can is young, he was an important player in Allegri's system and he's versatile and he promised Can a chance for first team. Sarri of course froze Can out of the team and all dirty laundry was aired in public. We're talking here of problems caused by two world class DOFs. God knows what lesser DOFs would do
So you need people to balance things out when problems crops out. That means a CEO who understands football and people who are knowledgeable in football and who loves the club to aid them. These two together can go into the nitty gritty of issues and sort any possible friction between the two whom, ultimately, need to work together. There will be times when the manager is right while there are times when the DOF is right. I assure you that the Can's 'scandal' would have never happened if Beppe Marotta was still at Juventus.
If I were the Glazers I would acknowledge that Manchester United is far too big for one man to run alone. A CEO can't focus on football stuff like transfers signings, player's contracts and sorting friction between different areas of the club while concurrently balance the books and bringing in new sponsors to the club. Thus the club needs to be broken into two ie the financial side and the football side. Woodward can and should be CEO of the financial side. Meanwhile someone like VDS or Marotta should be hired as CEO of the football side. At that point, Id hire Phelan at board level and then bring in a top DOF (Campos?) and a top head of recruitment (Mitchell?). Once that is in place the rest will follow ie a top manager, top scouts, top fitness people etc.
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We don't need to get worse before we get better. This is just Woodwards way of lowering expectations, so he doesn't need to spend big money.
Fans: why are we not spending big, buying the best players in the World to take us back to the top?
Woodward: We are rebuilding for the future, over the long term. So, we don't need the biggest and best players.
Fans: okay. But why are we getting worse. I mean, we are currently having the worst season since EPL started. All negative records not broken by Moyes, LVG and Mourinho are being broken by Ole. Why is this?
Woodward: It's going to get worse, before it gets better. In 3 years, you will see.
Here's my solution.
Hire a better manager, give him funds and we will improve immediately. We don't need to wait 3 years or go to the relegation zone, to get better.
Conversely, hire a worse manager and as we saw with Moyes and Ole, we will get progressively worse within 6 months, we should be breaking negative records.
Don’t get your knickers in a twist, he’s spent what he’s spent, it’s not an agenda when it’s what’s actually happened. He spent more in summer and January windows again just what happened not an ‘agenda’.
I’ve never said that just that it’s not helpful to be worse, just common sense.
Do you know how ridiculous you sound? He had a team that was 2nd in the PL and instead of improving the squad he culled it and we are now in a worse position than 2nd place. You improve the squad. You do not cull it and make it worse.
And why should he attempt 4th place when that squad itself was good enough for 2nd place. If he had improved the squad he may have got the 2nd place or even 4th place. For sure now he is not going to get 4th place. So he has bungled the whole thing.
I will unreservedly apologise to all the Ole in Fans if he gets the 4th place this season. Would you guys apologise if he doesn't get the 4th place?
We have tried your solution 2 times actually, the results improved short term but made us worse long term. This is the problem that most fans are not seeing.
In your opinion, which manager shall we hire then?
Ole in - 8th is overachieving with this squad
Ole out - He has squad that finished 2nd, should finish 2nd
As bad as each other, it's like people are in hibernation since Aug 2018.
4th is minimum that should be expected, or Europa league win which gives one more chance for CL next season. If manager fails to achieve that, they should go. No need to exaggerate on how good or bad squad is.
Ole out - He has squad that finished 2nd, should finish 2nd
As bad as each other, it's like people are in hibernation since Aug 2018.
4th is minimum that should be expected, or Europa league win which gives one more chance for CL next season. If manager fails to achieve that, they should go. No need to exaggerate on how good or bad squad is.
I sound just fine thankyou very much. The squad needed a complete gutting in my opinion and that is what is being done. The instant gratification brigade want it to be done now.
Why would I apologise if we get 5th? Our squad has improved in key areas, but we've also lost key players to lengthy injuries. Anyone would put us 4/5 in this league based on the squad.
A transition takes time, something that's lost on a lot of people.
Yes, so lets compare how much Pep and Klopp have spent during their time rather than a time frame that suits your argument?
Pep has spent £696m
Klopp has spend £400m
Ole has spent £200m
So yes it is me getting my knickers in the twist with my numbers.
Exactly, and they keep referencing Liverpool but they went 30 years without the league title, everyone forgets that.
The same people who say we need the best players etc will complain that we over pay for players.
There is no winning.
Bless you, it’s not like those managers have been there longer, won trophies or didn’t take their teams backwards. Almost like you want those numbers to mean something they don’t.
What about some of other managers in league, did you leave them off by accident. Must all have spent more than Ole I assume, not like others could spend less and be above us.
So now we are looking how long the managers have been here? Not how much they spent.
I am not the one who brought up numbers, you did. Pep has taken his team backwards.. 1st place to 22 points of the top..
What about Lampard, did you leave him out by mistake?. Or Wilder he must have spent loads surely?. Look forward to seeing those figures. There can’t be managers that have spent less than Ole and are above us in league or have improved because that would make your post irrelevant.
You’ve posted what they’ve spent since they joined, not this summer which is what I referred too. Far as I know Ole outspent everyone last two windows, if you have alternative figures to disprove this ‘agenda’ please share.
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At least that's better than claiming he's doing a job no else can judge unless you have certain qualifications.
Only an idiot or someone who has no clue about football would put us in 5th or below with the squad we won the the 2nd place. All the new manager has to do was get our midfield sorted out and good coaching and tactics and we would be in the CL spots. Only an imbecile like Ole would cull the squad and get no replacements. Yes there were people who needed to be sold but he kept most of them and sold the only one who could buy us a win sometimes. Ole is a populist manager who panders to some of the fans and has no clue about coaching a football club. I have seen us get relegated but the fact of the matter is that everyone knew that United would bounce back instantly and we did. Unless you have been a supporter of the club as long as I or some others have been you have no clue about instant gratification brigade.
It's an agenda if your using the £200m figure as a stick to beat him with. Ole's net spend is about £120m, and over 40% of that is on a player who signed a couple of weeks ago. There are plenty of things that you can justifiably criticise Ole for, but harping on about a £200m spend seems to imply you're just happy to blame him for anything, regardless of context.
Liverpool were perennial bottlers who were in the footballing wilderness for the best part of 30 years until they brought in a capable manager. It wasnt them preserving with Houllier in the early 2000s that got them to this stage.
Where did I refer to net spend, I only said Ole has spent 200m which he has.
It’s not agenda to say team has spent 200m and is worse, that is what has happened.
My original point was the team is worse, the manager was under qualified and hasn’t done a good job, team has gone backwards despite manager outspending everyone and we won’t be in Champions League next season and that isn‘t a selling point. Selling a three year plan last year was a stretch, selling a two year one after a year going backwards isn’t going to be easy.
None of that is a criticism of Ole just reality of what is happened.
Even if I was using it as criticism would that be an agenda or is it impressive to have spent that much and get worse?. Will that be one of positives at end of the season?.
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Did you say SAF had taken us back if we didn't win the league?
I'd much rather be witnessing his version of taking the team backwards than the version Ole is showing us.
Actually Lampard spent about £100m and had a transfer ban. So we should hire Lampard or WIlder right?
The shortsightedness of people like you is the problem. There is no quick fix to a problem.
You brought that timeline to suit your argument and I changed it to suit mine.
So back to your original argument, because Wilder and Lampard have done well, will they attract better players than Manutd? isnt that what you are trying to say?
120m is far more than enough to get top 4 considering his opponents are Chelsea who had spent absolutely nothing and lost their best player, and Leicester whom he bought their best defender.
So
No, and I did not say that.
Well, if that is the case, I can send you links to football when Fergie was in charge and you can go watch that... because success is worked for you dont get it handed to you.
I agree with the first part, but not with the 2nd part.
The MUFC board have proven time and time again that we are reactive company, who are not pro-active. In other words, we don't see problems coming and solve those problems before they become big.
Only when a problem is sitting over their heads will the board acknowledge that the problem actually exists. I've given some examples below (but anybody who knows MUFC knows there are plenty of examples).
Put simply, there is no grand/master plan. We put Ole in charge, not because it was preordained or planned, but because he had a good 3 months and the board "reacted" by appointing him on a full time basis.
When things go tits up (which they will), Ole will be fired and a new manager brought in, who will want new players. Just as before.
Examples of reactionary, rather than pro-active decisions:
1, we knew one day SAF would retire. Did we have a succession plan? Nope. We just hired the guy that SAF thought could do the job and hired him.
2, we allowed GIll to leave at the same time as SAF. There was no "handover". He left, Woodward filled the gap and that was that. We had a man who was grossly unqualified for the role and he made blunder after blunder. The best was buying Fellaini for a higher price than his release clause.
3, When Moyes was failing, he was fired, as soon as it was mathematically impossible for him to make top 4. Note: we reacted. This was not planned in advance.
4, After Moyes, we started talking to other managers and LVG was brought in. We wanted a man with experience, so we "reacted" and got this. There was no 6 month plan.
But, you will argue that that was then, this is now.
Okay, let me give you another example of a reactionary decision which took place about 2 weeks ago.
Our midfield was decimated and our No.10 situation was becoming untenable. Only the Ole Inners would be dumb enough to argue that everything was fine.
Woodward "reacted" and bought Bruno. He should've got him in the Summer, but had that been the case, that would've been planned. Instead, he reacted when things got desperate and his hand was forced 2 weeks ago.
Now, this would be a plan to take us back to the top:
Hire a DOF. This can be done within a few weeks. Contrary to popular belief, it doesn't take years.
Tell him to assess everything footballing related and do whatever is needed to make changes. THis includes our manager, coaches, players, scouts, medical staff, physios, sports doctors, etc. Tell him that in 3 yrs we need to be competing for the title and it is his job to make this happen. Tell him that funds will be available and how much - not when the transfer window opens, but at least 6 months in advance.
The rest of the plan is too long to explain but you get my point.
I want you to notice that everything in the spoiler tag is planned in advance. No hirings/firings/purchases/sales in a reactionary way.
Hire a DOF. This can be done within a few weeks. Contrary to popular belief, it doesn't take years.
Tell him to assess everything footballing related and do whatever is needed to make changes. THis includes our manager, coaches, players, scouts, medical staff, physios, sports doctors, etc. Tell him that in 3 yrs we need to be competing for the title and it is his job to make this happen. Tell him that funds will be available and how much - not when the transfer window opens, but at least 6 months in advance.
The rest of the plan is too long to explain but you get my point.
I want you to notice that everything in the spoiler tag is planned in advance. No hirings/firings/purchases/sales in a reactionary way.
No I was just curious why you left them out when referring to spending, you picked out two big spenders. As you don’t like agendas I assumed you wouldn’t leave things out of it didn’t support your argument.
I haven’t changed anything your just picking and choosing to try and seem like you have a point. All I said Ole was biggest spending manager this season and we’re doing worse. You started throwing in Pep and Klopp and their total spends, must have forgotten others who spent less as I said.
It’s not about a quick fix or taking time it’s about the right fix. And you can’t just pretend it’s an agenda because you don’t like something.
What are you blabbering about?
SAF earned everything, he wasn't handed anything nor kept in a position due to nepotism.
Perhaps an Ole inner can explain this one away.
Also, I'd like to know which club in the EPL would swap their manager with ours. That outta make it clear how bad a manager Ole is.
Personally, I think if he gets fired at MUFC, he may never manage again....even in Norway, unless he gets a chance to manager a relegation battlers (like Moyes has been doing since he left MUFC).
I never expected 4th place. Quite a large proportion predicted a lower place finish.
It’s called a realistic outlook. Not lowering of standards, just a realisation of where we are as a club and what is required for us to get back.
The Swap, sell, buy, repeat policy of managers and players is more detrimental right now than if we had a feckin Monkey managing the team.
Money is drying up lads, feck league position. We need a balanced side with quality, Ole buys pretty well, I’m more concerned with that than anything else.
I want fourth spot solely to improve our recruitment in the summer.
Ofcourse there will be managers who spend less and do well, we have seen it in the past, Leicester for example too.
But there are also teams who spend alot and get nowhere, like Manutd, Everton, West Ham, Aston Villa.
Does this mean every team that doesn't spend money and does well have the best managers ?
For me as far as Ole goes it is top 4 or out.
So...
Let us add some logic here. Are we better than Liverpool? ... No. City? ... No.
So that's us in 3rd place at the very best for an optimist. You seem to think that 2nd place trophy should be ours!
But that's not the end of the story. Chelsea and Spurs are arguably around our level, both of whom we still have a chance of finishing above. Leicester are a bit of an anomaly for me. All of this points to a finish between 3rd and 6th for me depending on a given season, injuries etc.
We are 8th in the league fam. Enough with this nonsense.
How do explain that anomaly? Because to me there's one glaring difference between us and Leicester.
Did Moyes deserve more time then? After all, Ole's been here longer.
I just looked at the table. If we lose to Chelsea, then we will be below Everton in the table; Everton the team who was in the relegation places a few months back. We can go on and on about how manager x/y/z wouldn't be able to do better than Ole with this squad, but then we look at Everton, a team with a squad that few would argue is stronger than ours, and we can see how actually having a manager with a clue can make a big difference.
Why does currently being 8th conflict with the idea that we are developing for the long term?