The “Ole In” Brigade

Roboc7

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Ofcourse there will be managers who spend less and do well, we have seen it in the past, Leicester for example too.

But there are also teams who spend alot and get nowhere, like Manutd, Everton, West Ham, Aston Villa.

Does this mean every team that doesn't spend money and does well have the best managers ?

For me as far as Ole goes it is top 4 or out.
Hold on your preaching patience and saying I’m short sighted but it’s 4th or sack Ole. That’s not very patient.

How the teams are performing is a factor in assessing how good the manager is.
 

el3mel

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Why does currently being 8th conflict with the idea that we are developing for the long term?
Because we're not ?

We're in far worse state now than his first 3 months. Squad, results and football are all worse than his initial days.
 

Robbie Boy

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I never expected 4th place. Quite a large proportion predicted a lower place finish.

It’s called a realistic outlook. Not lowering of standards, just a realisation of where we are as a club and what is required for us to get back.

The Swap, sell, buy, repeat policy of managers and players is more detrimental right now than if we had a feckin Monkey managing the team.

Money is drying up lads, feck league position. We need a balanced side with quality, Ole buys pretty well, I’m more concerned with that than anything else.
I want fourth spot solely to improve our recruitment in the summer.
Spot on with the bolded part. But the major reason for that was..... because of the manager who was in place.
 

jem

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Because we're not ?

We're in far worse state now than his first 3 months. Squad, results and football are all worse than his initial days.
And I'd love for someone to lay out how exactly we are developing for the long term, beyond some abstract claims of buying the 'right' players. Dan James might be young, but I'm not sure I see anything there that gets me too excited about the future. I'm not writing him off, but I don't see a Leroy Sane type talent there. We paid 80 million for Maguire, and I can't for the life of me see that big of an upgrade over Smalling. Lindelof continues to look like a basket-case back there. AWB was certainly a step in the right direction, although he has much to work on. So what else is there? Rather than going with our promising young English goalkeeper (which would conform to the mantra Ed and Ole have been spouting,) we paid a ridiculous amount to renew DDG's contract. We've resigned the likes of Jones and Mata to new contracts, while abysmal players like Pereira and Lingard continue to play. Williams, Bruno, McTominay and Fred I can certainly see being part of this promising future that may or may not materialize. Likewise for Greenwood and Rashford. After that, I fail to see much to get excited about.
 

hobbers

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Why does currently being 8th conflict with the idea that we are developing for the long term?
Because it's totally asinine to suggest that in order to "build for the future" or "develop for the long term" we have to become abysmal in the interim.

But that's even beside the point, because there is nothing to suggest we are doing anything at all that will pay off in the long term. How are we going to attract the players we need if we finish, say, 7-9th and have Ole as manager going forward? :lol: How are we going to keep hold of any players that do actually have the required quality to take us back to the level we should be?
 

TheRedDevil'sAdvocate

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Do you know how ridiculous you sound? He had a team that was 2nd in the PL and instead of improving the squad he culled it and we are now in a worse position than 2nd place. You improve the squad. You do not cull it and make it worse.
And why should he attempt 4th place when that squad itself was good enough for 2nd place. If he had improved the squad he may have got the 2nd place or even 4th place. For sure now he is not going to get 4th place. So he has bungled the whole thing.
I will unreservedly apologise to all the Ole in Fans if he gets the 4th place this season. Would you guys apologise if he doesn't get the 4th place?
Apologise? Are you for real? They'll just look at our place on the table by the end of the season, no matter where we'll finish, and claim that anything above that would be a miracle that not even Klopp or Pep could accomplish.

The main issue here is that CL qualification won't be decided north of 70 points this season which is usually the norm in England. It's quite probable that any tally above 60 points will give any club that achieves it a decent chance at a top-four finish. What looks improbable at the moment is United taking more than 60 points from 38 games. So, when people claim they believed that top-four was unattainable at the start of the season and they use it now as an argument to absolve Solskjaer of any responsibility for our woes, i find their argument a bit skewed and disingenuous. It would have been difficult to get 75 points, we already had discussions about that. But claiming that it was always fine not to reach 60? Come on...

His last card is Bruno. Despite our horrendous form, he was given a very creative player to help his cause. But don't expect people to stop moving the goalposts, should the results continue to be as bad as they are now.
 

Alabaster Codify7

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Because it's totally asinine to suggest that in order to "build for the future" or "develop for the long term" we have to become abysmal in the interim.

But that's even beside the point, because there is nothing to suggest we are doing anything at all that will pay off in the long term. How are we going to attract the players we need if we finish, say, 7-9th and have Ole as manager going forward? :lol: How are we going to keep hold of any players that do actually have the required quality to take us back to the level we should be?

It's so strange, that line of thought. We were a 6/10, but in order to become a 9/10, we have no choice but to regress to 3/10. There is no need to go backwards in order to go forwards.
 

MoskvaRed

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We have tried your solution 2 times actually, the results improved short term but made us worse long term. This is the problem that most fans are not seeing.

In your opinion, which manager shall we hire then?
Your first point has been addressed many times already in this thread, using various creative analogies. But, one more time - the correct response to the disappointing performance of two decorated managers like LVG and Mourinho is not to simply ignore managerial credentials and pick an ex-player from an obscure league. Instead you try again with another reputable manager (paying more attention as to whether he is still on the up or in decline) while reviewing the underlying structure of the club to assess why so much money has been spent to so little effect. Liverpool have got back to the top by appointing a highly-regarded, still hungry coach combined with highly astute player recruitment, not by deciding it was time for Ronnie Rosenthal or Sami Hyypia to have a go because they “get the club”.
 

Cloud7

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Exactly, and they keep referencing Liverpool but they went 30 years without the league title, everyone forgets that.

The same people who say we need the best players etc will complain that we over pay for players.

There is no winning.
And how did they finally get to this level? By getting rid of the underperforming managers when they deserved to be gotten rid of, until they finally found the right manager. They didn’t give up and say “Well, we’ve tried good managers and bad managers in the past, let’s just stick with the worst of the lot because we’ve tried other things.” It’s not a crime to hire the wrong managers, but it is a crime to waste too much time and resources on them.
 

Cloud7

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Why does currently being 8th conflict with the idea that we are developing for the long term?
Because to say that we’re developing for the long term implies that we’re working towards something, when in almost every metric, we are just getting worse, both subjectively and objectively.

Developing for the long term means we’re working towards something, which means that we will see signs of progress along the way. You don’t go from where we are now to peak Barcelona over night. If you aren’t seeing signs of progress, chances are you aren’t actually developing towards anything.
 
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Did Moyes deserve more time then? After all, Ole's been here longer.
Moyes got fired when he couldn't get champions league football with a team that just won the league comfortably.

In hindsight, with how bad things have got perhaps it would have been better if Moyes got another year. We'll never know.

Ole took over a disjointed, unhappy, failing squad that has been under performing for years, under the back drop of a club being poorly run by the owners and cheif exec.

I get why people look at states and say it's clearly not good. But nobody is able to suggest an available manager that could improve things at United, if Ole was replaced.
 

romufc

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Hold on your preaching patience and saying I’m short sighted but it’s 4th or sack Ole. That’s not very patient.

How the teams are performing is a factor in assessing how good the manager is.
Yes, I am preaching patience from a clubs point of view now the manager. He still has the rest of the season to get top 4, it isn't like top 4 is out of reach.

This is Manutd, top 4 has to be minimum achievement regardles of the squad
 

hobbers

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But nobody is able to suggest an available manager that could improve things at United, if Ole was replaced.
Er, what? :lol: Most managers in the Prem could instantly improve things here if we brought them in.

Maybe not improve things to the desired level, but if I pull some names out of a hat, Ancelotti or Sean Dyche would get more points with this United squad from now until the end of the season than Ole will. Just a hypothetical but it's so obvious you might as well call it a fact.

And if we're talking about available managers we all know there's at least one out there who is a giant upgrade on Ole in every fathomable sense.
 

Hughie77

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He's here, he's got the job, there's not much else we can do bar back him, let's just see how we go with a settled 11 at least in place, that hasn't happened since the first few games if the season.
He's going to get until end of season that's definite, if we do not get into top 4 or progress in the Europa or FA cup,

Then I can see him getting the sack, and he himself should except it as well in not being good enough. Poch is i think waiting for the seat..
 

RUCK4444

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Spot on with the bolded part. But the major reason for that was..... because of the manager who was in place.
Nah most were pointing towards the squad and amount of youngsters to be relied upon.

What’s your thoughts on my point about prioritising recruitment over league position at this point?

Whilst the latter obviously affects recruitment to a certain degree I believe the money is being reigned in at the club and we need to build a balanced squad pretty quickly - especially if we do end up replacing Ole!

Next manager would need to hit the ground running and not have the major rebuild Ole is having to undertake, with all the shithousery that brings from fans when we don’t win the league after one summer window.
 

Leftback99

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Only an idiot or someone who has no clue about football would put us in 5th or below with the squad we won the the 2nd place. All the new manager has to do was get our midfield sorted out and good coaching and tactics and we would be in the CL spots. Only an imbecile like Ole would cull the squad and get no replacements. Yes there were people who needed to be sold but he kept most of them and sold the only one who could buy us a win sometimes. Ole is a populist manager who panders to some of the fans and has no clue about coaching a football club. I have seen us get relegated but the fact of the matter is that everyone knew that United would bounce back instantly and we did. Unless you have been a supporter of the club as long as I or some others have been you have no clue about instant gratification brigade.
I correctly predicted 6th last season even after we finished 2nd. I said Leicester, Wolves and Everton would be threats to us this season, mainly based on the quality of the squad. I'm an idiot with no clue about football though.

As for the 'this squad finished 2nd' argument. Leicester won the league and finished 12th the season after. I assume you think they should have stayed top, winning the league season after season?
 
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Ole in - 8th is overachieving with this squad
Ole out - He has squad that finished 2nd, should finish 2nd

As bad as each other, it's like people are in hibernation since Aug 2018.

4th is minimum that should be expected, or Europa league win which gives one more chance for CL next season. If manager fails to achieve that, they should go. No need to exaggerate on how good or bad squad is.
I think there’s a lot more level headed people in the debate than you’re giving credit for.
Lots, including myself agree with your assessment. I’d even go as far as a brainstorming last 13 games and FA Cup might suffice, just something tangible to prove he’s taking us somewhere.
If he can’t do that by the Summer, well no-one should (they will) complain that he wasn’t given a fair crack of the whip and that the club would be daft not to bring in someone more proven/qualified.
 

tomaldinho1

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Er, what? :lol: Most managers in the Prem could instantly improve things here if we brought them in.

Maybe not improve things to the desired level, but if I pull some names out of a hat, Ancelotti or Sean Dyche would get more points with this United squad from now until the end of the season than Ole will. Just a hypothetical but it's so obvious you might as well call it a fact.

And if we're talking about available managers we all know there's at least one out there who is a giant upgrade on Ole in every fathomable sense.
This is what is most frustrating - the narrative that many fans have that 'no one could do better' as if we're playing with 11 random blokes from the pub and Ole's grafting to accomplish the impossible. We have top players across almost every position, even with injuries we're stacked with international players, we have depth and yet we're scrapping with Spurs who wrote off half the season, Everton who did the same, Wolves and Sheffield who have vastly inferior players individually and then our old nemesis Arsenal who are just as rubbish as us but without spending as much.
 

ranxerox

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His CV is poor, results here atrocious, and clearly in over his head. He’s going to be sacked eventually, only question now is how much time he’s allowed to make things worse before he gets binned.
 

#07

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I will always back Ole for no other reason than I love him. Yes, it's like Geordies with Keegan and Scousers with Dalglish, I don't care though. Ole's been a favourite of mine since 1996 and nothing will change that, ever. Until the very end I will be hoping he succeeds. I don't understand people who call themselves United fans who want him to fail.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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This is what is most frustrating - the narrative that many fans have that 'no one could do better' as if we're playing with 11 random blokes from the pub and Ole's grafting to accomplish the impossible. We have top players across almost every position, even with injuries we're stacked with international players, we have depth and yet we're scrapping with Spurs who wrote off half the season, Everton who did the same, Wolves and Sheffield who have vastly inferior players individually and then our old nemesis Arsenal who are just as rubbish as us but without spending as much.
Yep. This.

The notion that OgS doesn’t have to coach this team up boggles my mind, we by no means have the best squad in the world & due to his inept team management he has found himself without some starters but we’re not simply losing games based on a lack of quality - it’s a lack of any coherent plan week in, week out.

This team could be utilised better, of that there can be no doubt. Periera starts games whilst Greenwood warms the bench ffs!
 

Foxbatt

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I correctly predicted 6th last season even after we finished 2nd. I said Leicester, Wolves and Everton would be threats to us this season, mainly based on the quality of the squad. I'm an idiot with no clue about football though.

As for the 'this squad finished 2nd' argument. Leicester won the league and finished 12th the season after. I assume you think they should have stayed top, winning the league season after season?
Are you comparing Leicester City to Manchester United in financial strength? United could have bought any decent player to improve the squad. He got rid of Fellaini and Lukaku too. Smalling too. Now if he thinks he can get Messi or Ronaldo then he is a bigger Don Quixote than I thought he is.
 

el3mel

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I will always back Ole for no other reason than I love him. Yes, it's like Geordies with Keegan and Scousers with Dalglish, I don't care though. Ole's been a favourite of mine since 1996 and nothing will change that, ever. Until the very end I will be hoping he succeeds. I don't understand people who call themselves United fans who want him to fail.
No one wants him to fail. He's simply a poor manager. If he's sacked by the end of the season, we will get a better manager in Poch and I'm fully ready to erase the period of him managing the club from my entire memory and only remembering him as a legend for us and I bet all other Ole out will do the same. Let's just move on, Ok?
 

JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

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At this point Ole has no excuses. He got all his major targets in and most players bar Rashford will be fully fit for the run in. We can say whatever we want about the squad quality, but it's a better squad than Sheff Utd, Everton among many others.

If he can't get a good run in either Cup and finishes outside the top 4, or at this rate outside the Europa League places, then we would mad to continue with him at the wheel.

Finishing 8th with no European football next year would be devastating. An excuse of "oh but Brandon William's played 20 games and Greenwood came off the bench in 30" doesn't wash with me and I am a huge supporter of the Youth Academy.

I hope beyond hope we get a good run going and it all ends up being for the best, but it is getting harder to see where the positives are going to come from right now.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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I will always back Ole for no other reason than I love him. Yes, it's like Geordies with Keegan and Scousers with Dalglish, I don't care though. Ole's been a favourite of mine since 1996 and nothing will change that, ever. Until the very end I will be hoping he succeeds. I don't understand people who call themselves United fans who want him to fail.
So you idolise OgS to a point that him harming the club in the process is secondary but you then questions others fanhood!?

Not one fan on this forum, “wants” OgS to fail - we would all prefer the man succeed; it’s the irrational blind faith despite evidence the man is out of his depth that is the issue here.

You can support the club, respect OgS the player & also see that he isn’t suited to managing a club of this size at this time.
 

Leftback99

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Are you comparing Leicester City to Manchester United in financial strength? United could have bought any decent player to improve the squad. He got rid of Fellaini and Lukaku too. Smalling too. Now if he thinks he can get Messi or Ronaldo then he is a bigger Don Quixote than I thought he is.
It's nothing to do with financial strength. 'Idiots' like me could see that we over achieved finishing 2nd (Mourinho himself agreed), football experts like you seem to have decided that 2nd was the mimimum we should expect from this squad, just because we did it once.

I'm pretty sure next season Sheff Utd won't finish as high as this season even strengthening in the summer. Teams over/under achieve all the time, we're not some special case. You don't look at the final league table in May and expect every team to finish in the same position or higher next season.
 

jem

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Moyes got fired when he couldn't get champions league football with a team that just won the league comfortably.

In hindsight, with how bad things have got perhaps it would have been better if Moyes got another year. We'll never know.

Ole took over a disjointed, unhappy, failing squad that has been under performing for years, under the back drop of a club being poorly run by the owners and cheif exec.

I get why people look at states and say it's clearly not good. But nobody is able to suggest an available manager that could improve things at United, if Ole was replaced.
It’s obviously subjective and speculative, but I believe Pochettino and Allegri would both be upgrades, a major one in the case of Poch. If Ancelotti can get a tune out of Everton’s squad, I don’t see why a good manager couldn’t get one out of ours.
 

Kostur

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Quite amazing how we haven't been shit for a week (probably because we haven't played) and all the same old tired shit keeps crawling back in.
 

roonster09

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I think there’s a lot more level headed people in the debate than you’re giving credit for.
Lots, including myself agree with your assessment. I’d even go as far as a brainstorming last 13 games and FA Cup might suffice, just something tangible to prove he’s taking us somewhere.
If he can’t do that by the Summer, well no-one should (they will) complain that he wasn’t given a fair crack of the whip and that the club would be daft not to bring in someone more proven/qualified.
Of course there are many level headed posters on both sides, I have gave example for the worst bits, completely underrating the team by saying achieving 8th would be miracle, likewise the other poster completely ignored that this squad wasn't in 2nd position when Ole took over, it's like they completely ignored what happened since Aug 2018.

There are so many dishonest opinions here just to push their agendas.

Re assessment of Ole, I think we should move on from him. We need more proactive style of football instead of just relying on counter attacks. Yes we had lot of injury problems but that's part and parcel of the game and we should have been better prepared for this.

I wouldn't say there are no positives at all, he has done well in few areas but as overall package he isn't good enough. We have Poch who is available and he is one of the best managers in the league, should sign him at least for next season.
 

devilish

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Why does currently being 8th conflict with the idea that we are developing for the long term?
Can't that be done with someone who actually knows what he's doing instead? Ole spent 200m and despite all that we're lingering at 8th place with the worst start since 1989. The guy is breaking every negative record set by Mou, LVG and Moyes. Also what makes you think that the guy is suited for the job? Maybe his managerial record at United or was it with Cardiff? I mean apart from that, Ole's experience in management is at amateur level. Even at that level, he last won a trophy 7 years ago.
 

devilish

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It’s obviously subjective and speculative, but I believe Pochettino and Allegri would both be upgrades, a major one in the case of Poch. If Ancelotti can get a tune out of Everton’s squad, I don’t see why a good manager couldn’t get one out of ours.
TBF Ancelotti is three times the manager Poch and Allegri are.
 

Sky1981

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It's nothing to do with financial strength. 'Idiots' like me could see that we over achieved finishing 2nd (Mourinho himself agreed), football experts like you seem to have decided that 2nd was the mimimum we should expect from this squad, just because we did it once.

I'm pretty sure next season Sheff Utd won't finish as high as this season even strengthening in the summer. Teams over/under achieve all the time, we're not some special case. You don't look at the final league table in May and expect every team to finish in the same position or higher next season.
And yet we call Mourinho a big failure, and better yet we call Ole the better Manager than Jose Mourinho

This circle of logic is getting my head in.
 

roonster09

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Ole is shit, Jose was shit. Ole being poor doesn't change Jose's time here.
 

The Boy

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Can't that be done with someone who actually knows what he's doing instead? Ole spent 200m and despite all that we're lingering at 8th place with the worst start since 1989. The guy is breaking every negative record set by Mou, LVG and Moyes. Also what makes you think that the guy is suited for the job? Maybe his managerial record at United or was it with Cardiff? I mean apart from that, Ole's experience in management is at amateur level. Even at that level, he last won a trophy 7 years ago.
All fair points, aprt from the 200 million, 25% of that is Fernandes who has played one game so it's a bit unfair to say, reduce that to 150 million and it's a fair post!
 

Leftback99

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And yet we call Mourinho a big failure, and better yet we call Ole the better Manager than Jose Mourinho

This circle of logic is getting my head in.
Who said Ole is a better manager than Mourinho?
 

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Because it's totally asinine to suggest that in order to "build for the future" or "develop for the long term" we have to become abysmal in the interim.

But that's even beside the point, because there is nothing to suggest we are doing anything at all that will pay off in the long term. How are we going to attract the players we need if we finish, say, 7-9th and have Ole as manager going forward? :lol: How are we going to keep hold of any players that do actually have the required quality to take us back to the level we should be?
I’m more or less convinced at this point that the fervent Ole ins are either on a wum, or have genuine mental stability issues. I’m fairly confident there’s a plan in place and he’ll be gone in the summer. They’re best off ignored until then.
 

InspiRED

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Ole is shit, Jose was shit. Ole being poor doesn't change Jose's time here.
he had a very poor third season, but finished second with 81 points in his second season and won the europa league.

I’m not a Jose fan at all I’ve always loathed watching his teams play. But to say he was shit is appallingly disingenuous. He is a massive upgrade to Ole in terms of managerial acumen.
 

roonster09

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he had a very poor third season, but finished second with 81 points in his second season and won the europa league.

I’m not a Jose fan at all I’ve always loathed watching his teams play. But to say he was shit is appallingly disingenuous. He is a massive upgrade to Ole in terms of managerial acumen.
Again you are coming back to Ole. Upgrade on Ole doesn't mean he is/was good enough.
 

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Jose was a misery, the football wasn't great, and he made us all miserable, but he's clearly better than Ole, and if he was shit I don't know what word to describe Ole, so much worse than shit.