Was pretty much nailed on that Burnley would score from a set piece. As predictable as day turning into night.
Set pieces and balls into our box
- Thread starter noodlehair
- Start date
This is bordering on criminal negligence now. Is there a club in any top flight in Europe that concedes more goals from set pieces than we do?
This is directly attributable to Solskjaer.
What on earth are we doing in training each week.
What on earth are we doing in training each week.
Conceding a foul just outside the box is basically like conceding a penalty for us.
Well I really think it says it all that we have conceded if not the most,at least joint most goals from set pieces in the league this season.
I am afraid that is nowhere near acceptable for a club who spent £130m on improving the defence last summer.
I am afraid that is nowhere near acceptable for a club who spent £130m on improving the defence last summer.
Same problems under Moyes, Van Gaal, and Jose even though the squad has changed from time to time. A lack of desire to win those high balls is what I see.
43% of the goals we've conceded this year is from set pieces. That's fecked up. Awful from the coaching, and this one whatever way you look at it is down to the coaching team. Shit at both ends of the pitch.
We miss Smalling and Fellaini 
.
Who do we blame most. Tactics? De Gea? Maguire/Lindelöf?
. Who do we blame most. Tactics? De Gea? Maguire/Lindelöf?
I thought nobody could beat Arsenal in this regard when you see some of their seasons but holy shit we are something special alright.
43% of all the goals we have conceded this season have been set pieces which is shocking.
We have a pretty small side which doesn’t help but we’ve got to do something different to get a different result
Surely it’s an easy fix, there must be coaches out there who could come in and focus solely on set pieces. To me, it looked like we were miles too deep for the Burnley 1st goal yesterday. Why are we lining up on the edge of our area from a free kick on the halfway line?
We have a pretty small side which doesn’t help but we’ve got to do something different to get a different result
Surely it’s an easy fix, there must be coaches out there who could come in and focus solely on set pieces. To me, it looked like we were miles too deep for the Burnley 1st goal yesterday. Why are we lining up on the edge of our area from a free kick on the halfway line?
This to me is the biggest sign that we're not a well coached team.
The fact that it keeps happening shows that either a) we're not bothered about it or b) we work on it and it's for naught... Either way though, that goes down to coaching.
When you couple this with the rest of our play... Then yeah, we're just not well coached.
I think if you got a new (good) manager tomorrow you'd see tangible results of better training within a few weeks.
The fact that it keeps happening shows that either a) we're not bothered about it or b) we work on it and it's for naught... Either way though, that goes down to coaching.
When you couple this with the rest of our play... Then yeah, we're just not well coached.
I think if you got a new (good) manager tomorrow you'd see tangible results of better training within a few weeks.
Not exactly the same. LVG conceded crucial set piece because he recruited short CB such as Blind and Rojo, I still recall the horror loss to West Ham that could have salvaged a 4th. LVG brought this to himself. Mourinho did better, by bringing in Fellaini and Ibra/Lukaku, and relying on Smalling + Jones as CB. Who's fault on Lindelof I don't know. When I examined the 1st goal to Liverpool, Lindelof was nowhere to be seen, Matic was guarding the far post, with Maguire the only player able to defend, so here you go. Once we got rid of Smalling and Fellaini, we become lamb inside the box.
We are missing a few tall players like McTominay and Pogba in the squad right now, but I know last year we were like the 5th or 6th biggest side in terms of average height, while Liverpool and City were near the bottom. We just dont seem to defend with the same intensity as top teams and tactics are not working. As for our offensive output (more lack there of) taking set pieces, I think that is less on coaching and more on the players just not being good enough. The manager and his staff can draw up whatever they want but if someone can’t hit a half decent ball into the box on a free kick or a corner not much can be done.
This is entirely on coaching. We've had set piece specialists, both at taking them and at attacking them over the years. Here it's all woeful. Look at Liverpool. They have Van Dijk who is tall, Matip when he plays and Fabinho when he plays. Yet they're as good as anyone from them.We miss Smalling and Fellaini
Who do we blame most. Tactics? De Gea? Maguire/Lindelöf?
Our set piece coaching is terrible and the biggest criticism I have of our coaching team. Not just the amount we concede from them, but when we "attack" with them it's more often than not a counter for the opposition, and pretty much never anything threatening from us.
Smalling wasn't all that in the air (regularly went missing at corners) and Fellaini for what ever reason wasn't the monster he was at Everton. I remember us struggling with high balls even in matches when we fielded Zlataan 6'5, Smalling 6'4, Fellaini 6'4, Matic 6'3, Pogba 6'3, Lindelof 6'2? and others around the 6 foot mark. I have no answers for why other than a lack of courage and desire.
So we're still pretty shocking at this.
Our defending has seemed to improve a bit in open play (thanks largely to Maguire being a lot better of late) but we've been fortunate to varying degrees in our past two games to have not conceded two goals from set plays.
By this point are we just accepting that it's not something anyone at the club is overly bothered about and it'll continue as it has been doing?
Our defending has seemed to improve a bit in open play (thanks largely to Maguire being a lot better of late) but we've been fortunate to varying degrees in our past two games to have not conceded two goals from set plays.
By this point are we just accepting that it's not something anyone at the club is overly bothered about and it'll continue as it has been doing?
I can't wrap my head around how bad we are at defending them. Still.
I don't think anyone in our coaching staff has a clue how to set up and coach it properly in order to be solid in that regard. We just bought a big man in Maguire an hoped it would solve most of the issues. That is alarming IMO.
Same a bit with attacking against packed defenses, but that is another topic.
Same a bit with attacking against packed defenses, but that is another topic.
Zonal marking needs to be outlawed. You put the big fecker on the other big fecker.
Can we just get a defensive coach in? Please?
If the club is determined to stick by Ole, at least give him some support. I don’t know who’s running our defensive drills, Ole can work well with forwards but I can’t imagine he’s too hot on defensive strategy (and evidence supports this). It’s shocking that we appear to be making no improvements whatsoever in this regard.
If the club is determined to stick by Ole, at least give him some support. I don’t know who’s running our defensive drills, Ole can work well with forwards but I can’t imagine he’s too hot on defensive strategy (and evidence supports this). It’s shocking that we appear to be making no improvements whatsoever in this regard.
It is terrible still. Need to change the system and make sure we have our best guys marking the biggest threats in the opponents.
Zonal marking of any kind will be the death of me. Does any team utilise it effectively? I can't stand it.
Our set piece defending is still very shabby and Arsenal were awful against Everton's corners too. Arteta and Ole need to attend a course together.
I know its harsh to single out 1 player, as multiple would have been at fault and defending is more about the entire team than individuals, but I feel so unconfident in our ability to defend corners/ crosses when Lindelof is playing. For a 6ft+ tall Centre Back he is beaten in the air so often, even yesterday for Watfords disallowed goal the ball flew over his head.
of course hes not the only one at fault but it seems to happen to him a lot
of course hes not the only one at fault but it seems to happen to him a lot
He looked like he fecking ducked out of it
Fernandes got a touch on it which put it out of Lindelofs reach. So no, he didn't duck it or miss it. He could perhaps have told Bruno to leave it but perhaps they felt Bruno would get a better clearance on it than he did.
We have 8 clean sheets in the last 11 games lads. So whilst it's definitely been a huge issue the timing of this moaning seems kind of odd to be me.
We have 8 clean sheets in the last 11 games lads. So whilst it's definitely been a huge issue the timing of this moaning seems kind of odd to be me.
Because we were very fortunate to not concede two goals from set plays in our last two games?
It very much looked like that, I'd like to think it was a case of something looking far worse in slow motion replays than actually ducking out of it....because surely in reality a centre back hasnt just ducked a cross
2 disallowed goals in a week from corners might just do it
The PL is a very physical league and we just lack the players with the size and mentality to go and win the ball
Think about it. Look at Watford yesterday. 5/6 genuine big lads with real desire to go and win a header.
We had one in the starting XI - Harry Maguire
Matic is tall but doesn’t attack the ball with real aggression. Lindelof is rubbish in the air. Wan Bissaka and Shaw are about as good as you expect full backs to be but that’s all. Fernandes too slight. Fred too small. Martial....come on...Dan James...tiny!
See I don’t think there’s any big mystery here...we just lack players with size, aggression and heading ability.
Plus...just in answer to those saying “why zonal???” - I’ve played football all my life at reasonable standards (for spells) and as CM/CB and someone who would always be asked to mark the big man or defend a key area, I can tell you I would much, much rather do zonal than man. If you’re marking a genuinely good header of the ball, you’re trying to man mark and the delivery is good you’re screwed. You can’t touch the player and they know where/when they are going to make their move so it’s easy for them to get half a yard
Think about it. Look at Watford yesterday. 5/6 genuine big lads with real desire to go and win a header.
We had one in the starting XI - Harry Maguire
Matic is tall but doesn’t attack the ball with real aggression. Lindelof is rubbish in the air. Wan Bissaka and Shaw are about as good as you expect full backs to be but that’s all. Fernandes too slight. Fred too small. Martial....come on...Dan James...tiny!
See I don’t think there’s any big mystery here...we just lack players with size, aggression and heading ability.
Plus...just in answer to those saying “why zonal???” - I’ve played football all my life at reasonable standards (for spells) and as CM/CB and someone who would always be asked to mark the big man or defend a key area, I can tell you I would much, much rather do zonal than man. If you’re marking a genuinely good header of the ball, you’re trying to man mark and the delivery is good you’re screwed. You can’t touch the player and they know where/when they are going to make their move so it’s easy for them to get half a yard
Fernandes flicked it over his head to be fair...Although why he was running to the sane spot Fernandes was already in to start with I have no idea.
This is the problem. People keep blaming zonal marking, but what kind of zonal marking has one of the centrebacks sprinting out of position to challenge his own player for the ball at the near post?
It seems to be more just completely winging it, in spite of it costing us already in so many games.
I know it's just banging the same drum over and over but it really does undermine everything, but for two VAR decisions that come down to nothing more than luck, our last two performances would have been made completely pointless because we still can't be bothered to learn how to defend a corner.
Is this any surprising? If we go man to man we dont have the physical players to make it work.
Maguire is the only one who is brilliant in air. Shaw and Matic is just okay. Rest all are pretty bad.
Maguire is the only one who is brilliant in air. Shaw and Matic is just okay. Rest all are pretty bad.
I make it a potential 13 more points in the league if we cut out all the goals conceded from corners or a free-kick crossed unto the box...and keeping mind I can't remember all the goals we conceded so it's likely more than that. Ever if you only cut out half (which would still give us quite a poor record) that very likely puts us in the top 4.
It's pretty important
It's pretty important
Yes they do. It's just never mentioned when its done well. If man marking fails then the individual is blamed and if zonal marking fails then its always the systems fault and never the players.
Spot on. We can have the best coaches out there and the likes of Lindelof, Bailly, Matic etc. aren’t offering anything. No matter how you set up it won’t be effective when the only person who can head the ball is Maguire.
We are disgraceful at dealing with corners and have been for a long time. No other teams struggle with them like we do.
Cover the front post with a tall lad and we can reduce the goals conceded from corners by 50%.
Zonal Marking has and always will blamed when conceding goals. The difference in how marking systems are analysed by fans, pundits & journalists is quite simple
- Zonal Marking, goal is conceded, its Zonal markings fault, it doesn't work. - System is Blamed not the Players
- Man Marking, goal is conceded, its that players fault, they lost their man. - Player is Blamed, never the Man Marking System
Teams have been extremely successful using both systems, teams have been terrible using both systems, it comes down to organisation and players. I think for a long time statistics showed that zonal marking was the more successful of the 2 however, i have no idea if that has stayed the same or changed.
United's defence both in open play and from set pieces feels completely unorganised to me. Too many chances to opposition teams, last ditch tackles, blocks or eventually crowding a player out. not really sure how our goals against record in the league this season is like 4th best
Partly because most defences are a lot worse than they have been at any point in a long time. Teams either aren't organised or play themselves into trouble multiple times a game.
One thing I've noticed with us is how often Maguire and Lindelof are absolutely miles apart in defensive situations. Only thing I can guess is that it's because there's more emphasis on creating space between your centre backs when you are in possession, but even then you'd expect them to adjust and close up when setting to defend. Instead they end up sprinting to try and cover each other or being unsure who to pick up because one of them will be 30 yards from the other.
Rio and Vidic for example would always seem to act in tandem. One would engage the situation, the other would always be close enough to sweep up or close off the danger.
Been shocking at dealing with corners for years as I've said before. Can't defend them and rarely score from them either. Defensive coach needed immediately to sort that mess out.
It's not just corners though, throw-ins are a disaster too. No one bothers picking up and the opposition basically do what they want while we get marked out of the game on our throws.
Would love to hear Solskjaers views on these problem areas.
It's not just corners though, throw-ins are a disaster too. No one bothers picking up and the opposition basically do what they want while we get marked out of the game on our throws.
Would love to hear Solskjaers views on these problem areas.