He’s more an example of a player who has been hampered by injury. He has performed quite well for Barcelona at times.
Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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Tbf he has a valid point about the right side left foot issue.
You really think you can lowball a player who is already to be counted among the Top 5 players worldwide on his position? You really want to tell him, "Sorry bro, you have to earn your "Official Seal of PL quality" beforehand?
The records of our previous signings from the Bundesliga speaks for itself. There's not a chance the club is putting a 20 year old on 300k a week wages. Particularly when throwing exorbitant wages at players and hoping for the same kind of dedication from them when money is their main motivation for being at the club has proven not to work over the last seven years.Think you're well away from reality if you don't think we'll go massive in every department for an English talent like Sancho, it's obvious we will, and we'll happily pay massive wages similar to what we're already paying Rashford and Martial, and rightfully so. "unproven premier league player"
Going by your logic, we would have handed Pogba a new contract on the wages he wanted no issues already.
If anything I'd say I'm more in touch with reality.
Let me try to grasp this: You honestly expect an already worldclass youngster, who just might be best winger there currently is not only to snub Elite Clubs from all over Europe to join your "Project" spearheaded by OGS, but also to do that on modest wages?
Really?
The others are slaughtering you for it but I think you're right that we'd be pretty insane to put him on wages that high at his age, could you imagine the size of the next contract extension he'd want? Considering what we have Pogba and Rashford on I'd wager we'd offer something in the £220k-£260k margin with yearly % increases. I don't see many other top teams throwing £300k at him either, most teams are more well run than to be doing that.
I don't think it'll be 300k, not for his first contract with us, but it will be plenty, equal to what Martial/Rashford are getting I'm sure, if not a bit more.
Other teams might bait him into a (slightly) lower salary with a bigger chance of winning some silverware. Can't see him signing for anything less than 250k/week, though. His market value just is that high.
Let me try to grasp this: You honestly expect an already worldclass youngster, who just might be best winger there currently is not only to snub Elite Clubs from all over Europe to join your "Project" spearheaded by OGS, but also to do that on modest wages?
Really?
It's not really a complicated concept to grasp, that if he's not tempted by the club's ambition and "project" then we're better off not having him. Rather that, than him being here solely because we paid him more than anyone else. Attracting disinterested players purely by money has not worked for us.
And? Do you actually have an ongoing project, worth calling it like that? Do you think your club is well run, and making its business decisions based on sound assumptions and clever longterm planning?
If so, your perception of your current state differs from mine. If there's no enthralling vision to sell, then what's left to attract a player of his class?
Jeez, ok.
Whatever Ole's qualities as a coach, it's pretty clear that under his tenure the transfer strategy and direction of the club has changed. We've been targeting young and hungry players, mostly from the domestic English market, rather than stars at their peak or sunset. And the latest foreign additions have been players that showed a desire to play for Man Utd. Both Fernandes and Ighalo wanted to come here and the latter even said he got a pay cut to come.
We also reverted to giving youth minutes and chances (Williams, Greenwood) and all the core players of our team bar the GK are now 26yo or under. In fact we consistently field the youngest teams on EPL matches:
Youngest EPL starting XIs (19/20)
What that shows is a club with a longer term vision, rather than one signing and playing 29-30yo journeymen who want one final big paycheck. That Ole is aiming to build a young, ambitious and hungry squad of good talent that will be ready to make an assault on titles in 2-3 years time, rather than tomorrow. And that's the project we try to sell to young players like Sancho, on top of being able to offer really good money.
If you can't deduct that from the current state, maybe your powers of perception aren't all that great?
Like the look of that apart from the backups at RW, all of which have proven to be nowhere near up to the task (Chong maybe deserves more time there, but I don't see it personally).
Imagine Sancho comes and gets a long term injury early doors. Suddenly we're back to watching Jesse's mesmerising runs to nowhere or Mata falling over in the breeze.
I think we need one more addition there, to any of the front three positions. Someone with quality but happy to have a backup role or a promising youngster would be fine. Likely won't be guaranteed huge minutes.
LW: Rashford / James / Martial
CF: Martial / Greenwood / Rashford
RW: Sancho / New signing / James
For example.
We're lucky that there's so much versatility in our front line currently, giving us plenty of flexibility in terms of targets.
Future is beginning to feel bright again in Manchester though! There's something building here.
Bollocks. I believe we have changed our structure after giving Bruno 70k a week, so there's no way we'll give Sancho more than Martial and Rashford before he's proven himself.
Rashford is on 200k/week and Martial 250k/k and I think that we won't give bigger contracts than we did with these guys and De Gea. I reckon Sancho will start out by making 160k/week, and then raise it to 250k/week two years later if he takes the PL by storm. Performance-based bonuses might take his 160k/week towards Martial's if he does well.
I don't see any team throwing that at him. Liverpool just barely throwing £200k on VVD or something.
I assume if we went for him, it would be in line without Rashy or Martial.
Well, let's just say I wouldn't share your rose-tinted view on the situation, at least not to the same degree.
In the end, and that was my reason to join in you'll have to offer "really good money" in order to even have chance of signing him.
I haven't said that at all? I don't expect us to sign him whatsoever. I'm saying I find it highly unlikely that the club will throw silly money at a 20 year old.Let me try to grasp this: You honestly expect an already worldclass youngster, who just might be best winger there currently is not only to snub Elite Clubs from all over Europe to join your "Project" spearheaded by OGS, but also to do that on modest wages?
Really?
What rose-tinted view exactly? I presented facts. Whether the project pays off or whether the team, instead of challenging in 3 years time, is still battling for top 4 with Ole sacked that we don't know. And we can't foretell. But the direction and strategy at least is clear to anyone with eyes and ears.
And we'd always offer "really good money", but what does that mean? We'll not pay over the top, not any more anyway. Why would we offer 250k pw plus, like you suggest, and therefore pay him more money than more accomplished and arguably better (currently) players like Kane, Salah, Mane, Pogba, Lewandoski etc. And if he did ask for that as a teenager with no achievements to his name as yet, he's probably not the right one to sign for us and we better look elsewhere. I'm sure that if he asks for the kinda money that Barca, Real and PSG pay, we'd tell him to join them and good luck.
A quick google search shows that Sancho is apparently on a £190,000 a week contract at Dortmund. I find that a little difficult to believe but perhaps our Dortmund posters can shed some light on that. If true then it would present a problem fitting him into our current structure.
No chance. That figure was quoted by the geniuses at daily mail and "including bonuses" allegedly. He doubled his salary from €3m to €6m in the summer by all accounts. Which can only be gross, as net would be more than £190k even without the bonuses.
For reference, when he was fined a week's wages he was quoted as fined £86k back in October and his salary was reported as £5.2m (~€6m)
Jadon Sancho fined by Borussia Dortmund after being axed over late show
Maybe he reaches £100k with achievable bonuses. who knows.
The top bracket of Dortmund players are estimated to be around 10m/yr. so it doesn't seem far fetched.
Even though he is Norwegian he is known for making a joke every other year, this might be it...
"including bonuses"
Yes, that's how all the wages are reported. Including bonuses, not just basic pay. That's why it's reported Pogba earns 290K per week when his basic pay is around 150K per week.
I think it would be. I cant imagine he would have joined from City at a particularly high salary - lets assume £40k pw tops. He was still relatively unknown then so that could even be on the high side. Even so he would have then had to receive a 400% increase on his salary after one season. I suspect @MadMike is correct above. Probably just south of £100k pw as of now, which if correct would give United a fair amount of room to work with before we blew our own structure.
I don't know about that. Most times figures are just thrown out without clarification at all. We don't even know if it's gross or net most times. And being a pedant, a bonus is not a wage.
He's got 2 contracts since he joined. He allegedly joined at something like €1.5m a year. He doubled that in 2018 to €3m according to reports
https://versus.uk.com/2018/11/jadon...a-dortmund-reportedly-worth-2-7-million-year/
..and last summer he is said to have doubled it again to €6m as per that Mirror article. I mean not very reputable sources and all, but nothing is hugely reputable on player salaries to be fair. These seems to be a pattern of him doubling his salary every year though and his fine seems to be inline with a week's pay at €6m annual, so there might be something in that.
Their highest earner at €10m is supposed to be Reus.
That figure is almost definitely nonsense. It is hard to find reliable numbers I think at least the figures for our top earners should be somewhat realistic. Those would be Hummels and Götze at around €10m and Reus at €12m though the latter may be getting some extra money from Puma as well. That considered I believe Sancho is probably around the €6m that were quoted, which would be the going rate for a talented youngster who got a pay raise without extending his contract last summer. I guess that roughly translates to about £100k per week.
So are we still favourites to sign him?
Money aside, what would be the key factors in persuading Sancho to join us over other potential suitors?
Money aside, what would be the key factors in persuading Sancho to join us over other potential suitors?
Makes sense. Thanks both. Given the above then United being able to improve on that to the players satisfaction shouldn't be a significant issue
Improving it definitely won't, but of course other clubs will of course be prepared to do the same. Even though I really don't expect Sancho to stay in Dortmund past the summer, if he chose to stay and maybe extend his contract for a year or two he could definitely earn more money in Dortmund as well.
No way to know who is favourites. It depends on what the player wants to do with his career. Obviously there are a handful of clubs that would present him with a better immediate chance of honours. He might have unfinished business at City, or he might feel that time has gone. He might have developed a taste for living abroad and want to go to Spain. Its impossible to tell, but with the numbers involved, we might be the only seriously interested party. He is all but guaranteed to be a key player here, which gives us an advantage that many others clubs at our level are unable to match.
I agree. It's not improving it that might be the problem. I think what United will be wary of being drawn into a salary bidding war against clubs with more money than sense like PSG or Real or Barca. The lesson of outbidding City for Alexis' services only to get a player who gave little shit besides collecting a paycheck is fresh in our memories.
If there's a strong indication from the player he wants to come here and be part of the future of the club, a compromise will be found and both BVB and Sancho will be well remunerated.
Think he’ll sign for us because of Rashford, the stature of the club, and that he is guaranteed a spot on RW. Ofcourse we NEED CL. He wants to England and not an uncommon place in Spain. We are one of the few clubs that can throw enough money at him/Dortmund, and he is used to Manchester from before.
But he might go to scousers if they sell Salah to Spain, which is a real possibility.
But he might go to scousers if they sell Salah to Spain, which is a real possibility.
The way you sell a project to him will be crucial.
We have to be honest and say look we are not where we want to be and have made mistakes in the past. We want to correct that by bringing the correct players.
He will know all about Maguire, Rashford from his England times.
With Sancho there is a possibility to build a team that will mature together. Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, Bruno, Maguire, Shaw, AWB and Henderson.
An young english core with quality internationals. He will be joining a team that aspires to dominate for years rather than joining a team that has dominated and will need a rebuild soon.
We have to be honest and say look we are not where we want to be and have made mistakes in the past. We want to correct that by bringing the correct players.
He will know all about Maguire, Rashford from his England times.
With Sancho there is a possibility to build a team that will mature together. Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, Bruno, Maguire, Shaw, AWB and Henderson.
An young english core with quality internationals. He will be joining a team that aspires to dominate for years rather than joining a team that has dominated and will need a rebuild soon.
Agree. I feel we would be one of a few serious contenders to offer the money both Dortmund and Sancho would want. Also feel the fact that he would have a lot of his England team-mates at the club, the fact that we have a lot of young players with a lot of potential at the club he may believe we have a bright future, he would be coming back to a city he knows about and like you said, we would make him a key player at our club.
Really hope this happens!
Oddschecker says yes. United 6/4, Pool 5/2, Chelsea 5, Barcelona 10, Real Madrid 18 and Bayern 20. Which means it is still unlikely we will get him, even we are favourites currently. 6/4 means 40% probability. But bookers always offer terrible odds for transfer bets so i would not give us more than 20-30% chance.
To be honest, I don't think he is at any point tempted to join us for 160k/week. Good luck with the bid.
I get what you're saying but I don't think it needs to be quite so black and white. Nobody will ever convince me that Toure, Aguero and Silva joined City solely due to the project and the club's ambition. I'm sure they received very handsome wages to join (I don't know what the figures were, but I'd be surprised if they weren't very high.) However, all three of them were model professionals (Toure had his quirks, but delivered on the pitch.) It's hard to say the same for the likes of Di Maria, Sanchez and Memphis.
You could hardly think of a better match. He fits our transfer strategy perfectly. Our preferred formation suits his game. He'll have a tackling machine playing behind him. He has very little competition in his position at the club, and the number 7 shirt is available. Becomes an instant superstar at the biggest club in England. The only potential downside is if we don't make the CL and he isn't prepared to go a season without it.
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