I'm sure I'm reading this wrong, but how has the government ordered 17m antibody tests if they haven't been able to find them and nobody has any?
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Nah, I'm good. I've always wanted to become a recluse but couldn't afford to. Things are different now with all this furlough business.
Precisely, a virus does not want to kill the host. It will lose lethality over time. Figures being quoted suggest 10 million Infections worldwide, that puts it at 0.5 cfr.
United fans have been forced into doing this for the last few years already
It comes down being able to lead, be honest, and get the citizenry to get in line with directives.
Since I’m not from the UK I can’t speak intelligently. My sense that the UK has been a bit of shambles but its failings pale in comparison to the US where I am from.
The fact that up until a week ago the governor of the state of Georgia didn’t know that the virus could be spread by asymptomatic carriers is beyond shocking. When you compile this with the concept that Florida is still allowing religious groupings as essential goes to show that there is no centralized leadership in the US.
Regarding the death portion of things. The problem with this disease isn’t going to be the disease itself, but it’s ability to cripple a lack of planning.
While this thing is nasty as hell. The bigger problems emerging in the US are the potential deaths due to a lack of medical personnel, medical supplies, beds along with the secondary issues of lack of food, shelter, water.
This doesn’t even delve into the issues of civil unrest once 1/2 the country is out of money or god forbid a second wave this upcoming winter.
This isn’t a case of fear mongering but rather being alert to the catastrophic issues that create even more death and destruction if measures aren’t taken immediately.
This still doesn’t even address the additional Issues that could arise from a hurricane or a major earthquake.
This is why having proper leadership makes a difference because they grasp the terrifying concept that any additional problems could be devastating because the normal protections are gone.
The appropriate face masks prevents inhalation of droplets. Apart from the dispersion aspects which I discussed above, the uncertainty from the biological point of view seems to be as best I can understand it (I have no knowledge of the biology and I am just reading the news) is that the scientists are not sure if a) you can become infected from inhaling the droplets and b) if (a) is true, how significant is it. The stance by JVT seems quite reasonable, at least in terms of the science.
But by saying "we don't recommend it" does risk alienating people because the alternative argument is that if there is a chance you become infected via inhalation of droplets containing the virus, then why not just give the masks anyway and not take the risk. This is not a view I personally hold entirely - I think we should be giving masks to the doctors/nurses/carers only, but others have a different view which is fair enough.
It's incredible that anyone trusts the figures CCP puts out.
I’ve just returned from a trip to Purley Tesco’s and it was one of the best shopping experiences I’ve ever had there!
Security at entrance limiting numbers inside the store which are way lower than usual. Everyone being respectful of the 2m distance and some esprit de corps with the chat with people.
Usually that store is chock full of cnuts and it’s horrible shopping in there. I presume they are still there but behaving themselves?
The security guard at the door was about 6ft10 and 20 stone at a guess so that may have dissuaded anyone from teeing one up
WHO thinks covid19 takes 2-14 days to show symptoms (median 5 days ). It's been 10 days since covid19 UK shut down on March 24th.
Is it correct to assume those dying now are largely from pre lock down period. So I guess we can expect daily numbers dead (RIP) to keep same or rising for a week longer, ie before we ‘flatten or lower the curve’.
Two thoughts:
1) What if number keeps rising this time next week?
2) Could Government have enforced total shut down a week earlier? Boris acted fast once Imperial report was published, but surely evidence from China, Italy, Iran would have justified them to act 'on a hunch'?
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
Is it correct to assume those dying now are largely from pre lock down period. So I guess we can expect daily numbers dead (RIP) to keep same or rising for a week longer, ie before we ‘flatten or lower the curve’.
Two thoughts:
1) What if number keeps rising this time next week?
2) Could Government have enforced total shut down a week earlier? Boris acted fast once Imperial report was published, but surely evidence from China, Italy, Iran would have justified them to act 'on a hunch'?
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
That's a very good point- loads of people must be struggling without their support groups. I guess we all need to be more tolerant.
I saw some of the addiction support groups have moved online, but there seems to be a lot of concerns over the sanctity of group meetings held over Zoom.
Genuine question but how did Zoom become so popular. I had never heard of even only two weeks ago???
@Henrik Larsson and @Suedesi - here's some more detailed info from the American Hospital Association that breakds down what our "intensive care beds" are...
edit - source: https://www.aha.org/statistics/fast-facts-us-hospitals
| Total Staffed Beds in All U.S. Hospitals | 924,107 |
| Staffed Beds in Community 1 Hospitals | 792,417 |
| Intensive Care Beds 3 in Community Hospitals | |
| Medical-Surgical Intensive Care 4 Beds in Community Hospitals | 55,663 |
| Cardiac Intensive Care 5 Beds in Community Hospitals | 15,160 |
| Neonatal Intensive Care 6 Beds in Community Hospitals | 22,721 |
| Pediatric Intensive Care 7 Beds in Community Hospitals | 5,115 |
| Burn Care 8 Beds in Community Hospitals | 1,198 |
| Other Intensive Care 9 Beds in Community Hospitals | 7,419 |
edit - source: https://www.aha.org/statistics/fast-facts-us-hospitals
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Yep same! Share price doubled in two months, but has come back a bit on the security concerns.
Crikey. I'm running every day, can't stand the thought of being inside all day, miserable!
As I've been saying all along, face masks work, and finally the WHO is coming round to the most obvious fact.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/...-mask-use-general-public-coronavirus/12118042
https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/...-mask-use-general-public-coronavirus/12118042
They definitely work to contain the virus when you are infected. The evidence they provide protection from the virus for someone who isn't infected is limited.
Prices are a bit absurd. For N95, a box of 10 masks costs $75. Considering that they are meant to be used only once, it is really very expensive.
I have no idea how much protection cheaper alternatives provide: https://ebay.to/2UCPYs6
I've got no idea, just thought interesting (sic) as question asked as I saw topic on here.
JVT is very calm, precise but that's not a guarantee. Personally, anything that can help NHS staff is good by me... my sister's a Sister (honestly
) so would like to minimise her chances of catching if possible.The more people wear masks the less chance of the virus spreading.
So this may well mean that the UK is doing much better than we thought.
My wife is wearing a n95, goggles, a hair cover, gloves, a gown, and a plastic fasemask... and she's been trained on how to put them on and take them off to avoid contamination.
Average people wearing just a facemask thinking that will prevent them from catching this virus are fooling themselves. It's about like all the people wearing gloves and then touching things and then touching their faces with the gloves on... or touching things with the gloves on then later touching those same things with the gloves off.
I wouldn't bother with the N95s since they are almost all going to get taken down at some point due to the healthcare need. I got 20 regular hospital style masks for 29.99 a couple of days ago. Should last me a couple of months since I don't go out much.
At the moment the UK only counts and knows about people that are hospitalized, it's the same story than Italy or France(until this week).
Surely not applicable to more population dense, and less developed regions in Africa, Latin America and Asia?
can masks be machine washed and reused?
You would need to check the technical data sheet for the corresponding mask. I think its unlikely but you never know..
I'm sure the ones made of cloth can. The hospital style ones which seem to be made out of something a bit papery probably can't.
You say twitter experts as if they were wrong? Theres been a solid pattern of if you want to know our next move is then just judge what the public opinion is days before.
I dont see what closing the pubs on March 15 instead of March 11 does in the long run to be honest but its all hidden under the banner of following science.
I know its a tough sitiation but theres being in a tough situation and theres pretending we have been proactive when we clearly havent been.
https://news.stanford.edu/2020/04/01/researchers-show-how-to-decontaminate-reuse-n95-masks/
The team members who came together over the last few weeks scoured hundreds of peer-reviewed publications, and held continuous online meetings to review studies of decontamination methods that have been used on previous viral and bacterial pathogens and then to assess the potential to use these methods on the novel SARS-CoV-2 virus that causes COVID-19.
Their goal was to provide overwhelmed health officials with reliable, pre-digested scientific information about the pros and cons of three decontamination methods should local shortages force a choice between decontamination and reuse or going unmasked.
The three methods involve either heat and humidity; a specific wavelength of light called ultraviolet C (UVC); or treatment with hydrogen peroxide vapors (HPV).
The scientists did not endorse any one method but instead sought to describe the circumstances under which each might be effective against the virus provided rigorous procedures were followed. They concluded, for instance, that devices that rely on heat are effective under specific temperature, humidity and time parameters. With UVC devices, the group advised making sure masks are properly oriented to the light so the entire surface is bathed in sufficient energy. They also found that the HPV method could potentially be used to decontaminate masks in volume – a recommendation that is backed by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, which has already certified certain vendors to offer hydrogen peroxide vapor treatments on a large scale.
They created a website that compiles all n95 decontamination data into 1 place also... https://www.n95decon.org/
I needed the hand sanitizer for when i do my shopping. So when i come out of the shop i rub some on.
I have the soap but doubt i need it because i live alone.
A guy on Joe Rogan said it is the foam in soap that kills the virus.
Absolutely. I don't disagree. I'm just pointing out that the evidence suggests masks don't protect against infection.
She's been trained to have close to 100% protection while dealing with infected people. Just putting a mask and gloves obviously won't achieve that, but (almost surely) it will give some protection (especially when we are talking for people who are dealing mostly with non-infected people). And some protection, is better than no protection.
The head doctor of South Korea said that the main difference in the fight they are doing vs the west, is that there everyone uses masks.
Do explain why the pale blue lines are all countries where most people wear masks.
It never ceases to amaze what scientists/engineers can do. I think its great news if they can scale up a method which can clean these reusable masks in an industrial setting.
I guess this will be very useful to covid19 hotspot planners. ie: if this data was layered onto infected/died per same area, should show correlation on effective of shut down/Stay at home?
Look at South Korea. It didn't stop a very large number of deaths before finally peaking.
Do explain why the pale blue lines are all countries where most people wear masks.
People have already discussed some issues in Japan earlier in the thread.
Singapore and Hong Kong both have labels of "quanrantine" so you can't say whether it was the masks or the quanrantine that proved most effective.
Today the total counts are 6507 deaths in France, 5091 in hospitals and 1416 care homes.
Great information. Many thanks!
How you/wife feeling? Hope it's not too bad for you.
You would need literally everyone wearing them, and then not contaminating things through improper use or wearing them and then contaminating themselves anyway through improperly doing something else.
How many masks would that take? How much other protective equipment to do so properly?
https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/26...olds-lesson-defeating-it-demands-persistence/
Do explain why the pale blue lines are all countries where most people wear masks.