I hope it works out, but I doubt you can staff an ICU unit with volunteers.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...nds-britains-manufacturers-with-greatest-test
This article also sounds a lot less optimistic about the numbers.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...nds-britains-manufacturers-with-greatest-test
This article also sounds a lot less optimistic about the numbers.
Criminal stupidity.
Of course, you can't. The volunteers will be doing the menial/admin stuff. That frees up the doctors and nurses to make more efficient use of their the expertise. It's about making life easier for the medical staff who really matter.
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But how many do? Supply and demand dictate that countries only train about as many doctors and nurses for that purpose as they have regular capacity and I have no idea how quickly and efficiently you can give people tl;dr training so they can cope at least with the corona-specific stuff.
Of course it is possible to train nurses to operate in ICU in couple of weeks. Volunteers would obviously be working elsewhere.
There isn't some German mystery or masterclass at play. They do more testing and better protect elderly and have bigger ICU capacity at the moment. Most countries don't have a shortage of ICU units, yet. They will have later, but it is also possible to increase the capacity in coming months. The death rate is lower do to more testing and tracing contacts and younger infected.
How Taiwan have managed so far
Supply and demand also dictated that the UK had a particular number of medical staff pre-covid 19. Just like every other country.
I never said that. I assume Germany is one of the countries with better healthcare in the world but I don't think our ICU capacity is some form of "they knew all along this would happen", I also think we have been massively lucky that our initial outbreak wasn't very rapid, giving us time to react and learn from Italy's misery.
Yeah, but you can't just put an orthopaedic surgeon into an ICU and tell him "well.. you're a doctor, operate those ventilators!" You can probably re-train people, but the question is whether that will be quick enough, at least for the first wave of cases.
Says the poster that's been wumming away in this thread for weeks
I wonder why? I've seen this earlier pinned in this article:
Boris himself lifted his fist in the air celebrating when he voted for and succeeded to block pay the 1% rise for nurses in 2007.
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525 deaths in Italy (681 yesterday)
Yes. A good healthcare system. But not as good as the UK's according to both the WHO and Commonwealth Fund.
https://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf
https://interactives.commonwealthfund.org/2017/july/mirror-mirror/
This is what competence looks like. It is quite something how bad a job WHO did in all of this, just to not anger China.
That's the root cause, yes. But the effect is what I'm talking about, and the effect is what's on-topic.
And 4316 new cases (4805 yesterday). I'm really happy to see this.
Tweet
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Schools and Uni's may be closed but the students aren't on holidays.
My step-son is still doing school work. It's not as much as he'd usually be doing but if this turns into a long term thing I'm sure they school will assign more work and do some kind of online classroom.
Aren't Universities switching to online lectures to keep the whole thing rolling?
Spain had 4000 recoveries today
I suffered similar symptoms last July. Was literally slipping away when the paramedics got to me. My lungs had basically stopped functioning due to infection.
If everyone could experience that level of panic and shock for just 30 seconds, trust me, they'd be staying indoors.
The first link appears to use data from the previous millennium. But that being said I'm not informed enough to adequately compare the level of health care in different countries.
And I don't really see the relevance of the second study in terms of the current crisis. to me it seems like (assuming doctors in rich countries are all fairly capable) it's all about capacity in this case. I mean who cares it a doctor could give you better counselling than elsewhere if they don't have a bed or time to treat you?
Luckily, the UK does have enough beds and volunteers are helping to free up time.
When the number of people who needs a ventilator (or a similar lung breathing machine) exceeds the number of available machines, then you are f*cked and you start seeing a spike in the number of deaths relative to the number in critical condition.
Another important factor to help "contain" the disease is to keep the R0 below 1 --> Lockdown, all non-critical jobs or tasks etc should be stopped or done from home. People in public wearing masks etc.
As long as you are not going above the ICU/ventilator threshold in a set region and the R0 is going down or is below 1, then you have done as well as you can. If you are still seeing an increasing R0 2-3 weeks after measures are taken, then you are not doing enough.
I completely agree with you. I think (guess) Germany's high ICU bed count is a major reason why our death rate is still so low. Though I'm not sure we will ever know the true rate of infection, as even the best efforts in testing are deemed insufficient. I still have this faint hope that the virus is actually far more infectious/spread than we assume and a lot of people already got through it with mild/no symptoms.
The last bit about heart failure... that is what my wife told me she saw a Covid patient die from yesterday.
I think it's scary to even think of what those nurses and doctors in the eyes of the storm will experience. From their perspective maybe even worse than a WW. And the cynic in me is certain they will not be rewarded for their personal mental suffering but inadequately supported or even left alone.
I know we've officially got another week of lockdown in the UK but how long do we reckon it will go on for?
And how do we reckon it'll be lifted? All at once? Phased? If so how? What about shops and pubs etc?
And how do we reckon it'll be lifted? All at once? Phased? If so how? What about shops and pubs etc?
When do the UK numbers get released?
It'll be phased but I can only guess how. There were quotes over the weekend saying the restriictions may be able to start being lifted end of May. I think realistically, August is more likely for large lifting of restrictions.
There was a nurse yesterday who is a PRN (if necessary) ICU nurse who also works in cancer research who told my wife “if I’d known I was treating Covid patients I would have called out!”... my wife reminded her that they’re currently the Covid Ward and asked her what the hell she expected. That nurse called out today... her replacement is a nurse fresh out of school that doesn’t know how to run the medications that the ICU requires.
Has anyone else read the claims out there that Advil (ibuprofen) makes coronavirus far worse?
My heart says end of April, my head says sometime in may.
It'll be phases, and when pubs etc open, it will be with restrictions.
Guessing you've seen the update on this @Cardboard elk ?Btw, I see that today there is news in Norway that Sweden might have twice as many dead as have been reported? Is that correct? I don't understand how the reporting can be so off and the swedish press so late at discovering thisMaybe swedish press is finally awakening. You guys really need to toughen up restrictions now to avoid complete chaos in Stockholm at least.
https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/zGJ8gv/mindre-efterslapning-av-dodstalen-an-tidigare
Still not sure why some people want to play off country vs. country like it's the European hunger games. The ICU situation in Sweden still appears very stable, so it's uncertain if there is any need for tougher measures just yet, if ever. All countries are doing their best I'm sure, and Norway appear to be doing a cracking job so be pleased and proud. Norway appear to have protected their elderly incredibly well.
I also hear that Denmark are meeting tomorrow to discuss gradually reopening the country again, possibly starting off with some schools. That's excellent news if so. More below:
The Danes may begin to see a way back to a more recognizable Denmark.
Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen (S) is working on Sunday, according to Berlingske's information, to talk about the plan for the first cautious reopening of the country, which will happen in connection with a press conference - perhaps already Monday.
The same goes for TV 2.
However, nothing is nail-biting, as working on a plan is associated with uncertainty and several factors that can develop rapidly.
In that case, a presentation of the first early reopening will take place just over three weeks after the prime minister closed large parts of Denmark on March 11 as a consequence of the pervasive corona epidemic.
However, it is likely that the first stage of a reopening will be less extensive than many Danes hope, because both the challenges and the uncertainty are open to society.
At the same time, politicians as well as authorities will have a persistent look at the development of coronas-infected and hospitalized patients, which can have a decisive influence on the pace of a reopening.
On Monday, it will also be a week ago that after a meeting with the other party leaders on a Danish exit strategy, Mette Frederiksen first mentioned the possibility of a reopening after Easter.
"I hardly dare say what I intend to say today, but now I say it: If we Danes for the next two weeks over Easter continue to stand together by staying away, and if the numbers remain stable and sensible in the next two weeks, the government will begin a gradual, quiet and controlled opening of our community again on the other side of Easter, "the prime minister said on that occasion.
Among other things, the Danes must continue to keep distance from each other in the coming time and in a budding spring and not exceed the set limits for assemblies of more than ten people. It is all about breaking the so-called infection chains.
Without in any way presenting an actual plan, Mette Frederiksen aired at the press conference on Monday, what considerations are being made in the government summit and with the authorities on how a concrete reopening can happen.
"When we open our society again, we have to do it gradually and we have to make it staggered," the prime minister said:
“For example, we may have to work, educate and attend school at different times of the day. We have to distribute beyond the hours of the day, we have to prevent rush hour in public transport, and when we go to work, it has to be in a different way than we are used to. "
Many questions remain.
Following the optimistic tone at the press conference on Monday, several parliamentary politicians have loudly marveled at the government's action with, on the one hand, proclaiming a possible reopening after Easter, while at the same time asking the government to pass yet another far-reaching emergency law containing the possibility of further restrictions on the Danes .
A cautious reopening of the country, according to Berlingske's information, is about how to create the most value through a modest opening of society.
Here, for example, it may be about questions about whether it makes good sense to let the smallest children come to school so that their parents can get back to work or whether it is rather about reopening parts of the public sector.
From several sides, clarification has been sought for the future.
For example, the Chair of the Danish Teachers' Association, Anders Bondo Christensen, believes that there is a need for Minister of Education Pernille Rosenkrantz-Theil to make a decision on the exams for the oldest pupils in primary school.
In the current situation, the teachers recommend that the graduation exams be canceled, the Danish Teachers' Association writes in a press release.
"I understand that the minister is in a difficult situation with great uncertainty, but there is a need for a clear announcement now, so that students and teachers know how to act," says Anders Bondo Christensen.
Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen (S) is working on Sunday, according to Berlingske's information, to talk about the plan for the first cautious reopening of the country, which will happen in connection with a press conference - perhaps already Monday.
The same goes for TV 2.
However, nothing is nail-biting, as working on a plan is associated with uncertainty and several factors that can develop rapidly.
In that case, a presentation of the first early reopening will take place just over three weeks after the prime minister closed large parts of Denmark on March 11 as a consequence of the pervasive corona epidemic.
However, it is likely that the first stage of a reopening will be less extensive than many Danes hope, because both the challenges and the uncertainty are open to society.
At the same time, politicians as well as authorities will have a persistent look at the development of coronas-infected and hospitalized patients, which can have a decisive influence on the pace of a reopening.
On Monday, it will also be a week ago that after a meeting with the other party leaders on a Danish exit strategy, Mette Frederiksen first mentioned the possibility of a reopening after Easter.
"I hardly dare say what I intend to say today, but now I say it: If we Danes for the next two weeks over Easter continue to stand together by staying away, and if the numbers remain stable and sensible in the next two weeks, the government will begin a gradual, quiet and controlled opening of our community again on the other side of Easter, "the prime minister said on that occasion.
Among other things, the Danes must continue to keep distance from each other in the coming time and in a budding spring and not exceed the set limits for assemblies of more than ten people. It is all about breaking the so-called infection chains.
Without in any way presenting an actual plan, Mette Frederiksen aired at the press conference on Monday, what considerations are being made in the government summit and with the authorities on how a concrete reopening can happen.
"When we open our society again, we have to do it gradually and we have to make it staggered," the prime minister said:
“For example, we may have to work, educate and attend school at different times of the day. We have to distribute beyond the hours of the day, we have to prevent rush hour in public transport, and when we go to work, it has to be in a different way than we are used to. "
Many questions remain.
Following the optimistic tone at the press conference on Monday, several parliamentary politicians have loudly marveled at the government's action with, on the one hand, proclaiming a possible reopening after Easter, while at the same time asking the government to pass yet another far-reaching emergency law containing the possibility of further restrictions on the Danes .
A cautious reopening of the country, according to Berlingske's information, is about how to create the most value through a modest opening of society.
Here, for example, it may be about questions about whether it makes good sense to let the smallest children come to school so that their parents can get back to work or whether it is rather about reopening parts of the public sector.
From several sides, clarification has been sought for the future.
For example, the Chair of the Danish Teachers' Association, Anders Bondo Christensen, believes that there is a need for Minister of Education Pernille Rosenkrantz-Theil to make a decision on the exams for the oldest pupils in primary school.
In the current situation, the teachers recommend that the graduation exams be canceled, the Danish Teachers' Association writes in a press release.
"I understand that the minister is in a difficult situation with great uncertainty, but there is a need for a clear announcement now, so that students and teachers know how to act," says Anders Bondo Christensen.
That’s was hyped up a few weeks ago, but I thought papers had since said that there was no link.
Unfounded I read.
I think you are supposed to use paracetamol instead, I’ve heard that also
There was a viral text going around about it (no pun intended).
Fact-check says there is no evidence backing up the claims
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/no-evidence-to-back-covid-19-ibuprofen-concerns/
no the ibuprofen rumour was bs
2pm everyday.
Couldn't agree more. Among the hysteria in this thread you actually do get some intelligent posts.
Saw this in The Guardian earlier. Thought it would be an issue in the UK all along because too much oversight and permissions still come from central government here. One of the things the regions are always asking for is more power to run themselves.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-logic-is-helping-it-win-the-coronavirus-race