Marc Jurado | leaves on a permanent deal

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IrishMcD

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We really seem intent on snapping up youth players, which is excellent to see and goes along with Nicky Butts comment of trying to develop our own superstars rather than buying them when they are coming into their prime. I must confess I know nothing about this kid, or how highly rated he is. Any resident Barca fans fill us in what this kid is like?
 

Utdstar01

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Hes not long turned 16 so i doubt many will have seen much of him. I imagine United scouts are in a trusty position to make a good assessment of him though.

I read an article saying he's the 'leader of his generation' for that barca team. That was in the mirror about a month ago.
 

JJ12

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Ali Dia

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Is he highly rated? he looks decent but nothing extraordinary from the few short clips I’ve seen of him. Our aggressive youth recruitment continues with Jurado and Hugil announced this week. What I will say is with these signings in a year or 2 most are going to need a better standard of football than u23s and the loan system hasn’t been particularly kind to us over the years. Hopefully there’s a better strategy in place going forward otherwise there’s no point in stockpiling these players. I know lots of people don’t like it but what Chelsea and City do with loans at least guarantees a lot of their players get their senior minutes and are in the shop window at the same time which benefits the club and the player.
 
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Rozay

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Our Director of Football strikes again!!!
 

Nick7

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Is he highly rated? he looks decent but nothing extraordinary from the few short clips I’ve seen of him. Our aggressive youth recruitment continues with Jurado and Hugil so far. What I will say is with these signings in a year or 2 most are going to need a better standard of football than u23s and the loan system hasn’t been particularly kind to us over the years. Hopefully there’s a better strategy in place going forward otherwise there’s no point in stockpiling these players. I know lots of people don’t like it but what Chelsea and City do with loans at least guarantees a lot of their players get their senior minutes and are in the shop window at the same time which benefits the club and the player.
He's 16 mate. He won't be in the u23s for a while yet, never mind going on loan.

With regards to City and Chelsea, we still have a far better academy to first team conversion rate than both of those teams. Why would we copy them, when they get such poor results?
 

Ali Dia

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He's 16 mate. He won't be in the u23s for a while yet, never mind going on loan.

With regards to City and Chelsea, we still have a far better academy to first team conversion rate than both of those teams. Why would we copy them, when they get such poor results?
they sell their young players for far more than us. Their best youth get to play at a higher standard before they’ve to make the call on them. The fact the city and chelsea had caught up with and surpassed us in a generation shows they are doing something right. This aggressive approach in the market and behind the scenes is Uniteds response to that which I am all for but just wondering out loud how all these signings are going to get game time of a high enough standard when the time comes. I totally take your point about us giving more young players a shot in the first team although Chelsea are starting to trust these players now too but usually after a couple of pretty high profile loans in the championship or lower PL teams etc. Only Fosu M has been a PL loan in recent years and that went pretty badly.
 

KevinJoh

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Chelsea and City have relationship with Vitesse and Grenada and therefore they are in position to offer competitive football to their young players, not U23 games without any meaning. They can develop and if they are lucky they will at least be able to sell them for proper price, while we are losing ours easily for free or peanuts.

He is 16, but that is U23 player in 2 years. Most of our kids brought recently are in that age so I guess there is some plan there. Hopefully to see some good loans this summer.
 

TwoSheds

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they sell their young players for far more than us. Their best youth get to play at a higher standard before they’ve to make the call on them. The fact the city and chelsea had caught up with and surpassed us in a generation shows they are doing something right. This aggressive approach in the market and behind the scenes is Uniteds response to that which I am all for but just wondering out loud how all these signings are going to get game time of a high enough standard when the time comes. I totally take your point about us giving more young players a shot in the first team although Chelsea are starting to trust these players now too but usually after a couple of pretty high profile loans in the championship or lower PL teams etc. Only Fosu M has been a PL loan in recent years and that went pretty badly.
Well what PL loans have Chelsea and City managed? Championship is still a good standard for youngsters and gives the competitive edge that U23s can lack.
 

Ali Dia

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Well what PL loans have Chelsea and City managed? Championship is still a good standard for youngsters and gives the competitive edge that U23s can lack.
Off the top of my head loftus cheek, Ake and atsu were sold for decent fees after PL loans I think? Zouma, Abraham could have got a PL loan handy this year... Ampadu at Leipzig. Couple more in the championship which is a great level for young players
 

MyOnlySolskjaer

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Chelsea and City have relationship with Vitesse and Grenada and therefore they are in position to offer competitive football to their young players, not U23 games without any meaning. They can develop and if they are lucky they will at least be able to sell them for proper price, while we are losing ours easily for free or peanuts.

He is 16, but that is U23 player in 2 years. Most of our kids brought recently are in that age so I guess there is some plan there. Hopefully to see some good loans this summer.
Not sure that this has even benefited the majority of players in terms of the contract club they signed for in the first place (Chelsea/City). How many of these players have ended up breaking through to be part of Chelsea's lineup (the should be end goal of signing a player)?

You compare that to Dean Henderson, who has climbed his way up from the' National League, League 2, League 1, Championship and the Premier League in the space of 5 years. And now, he's arguably one of the best in the Premier league. Or in Chelsea's case, Tammy Abraham who developed in random Championship and Premier League teams compared to those loaned to Vitesse. Who seems more likely to start for their contracted club?
 

limerickcitykid

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Off the top of my head loftus cheek, Ake and atsu were sold for decent fees after PL loans I think? Zouma, Abraham could have got a PL loan handy this year... Ampadu at Leipzig. Couple more in the championship which is a great level for young players
Half those aren’t even academy players. They sold Atsu for 6 after buying him for 3 and paying his wages for years. They bought Zouma for over 15m. Ampadu isn’t even getting a game at Leipzig, how is that a positive?

Sure we could get a PL loan for Rashford, McTominay, Lingard and Andreas too.
 

Ali Dia

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Half those aren’t even academy players. They sold Atsu for 6 after buying him for 3 and paying his wages for years. They bought Zouma for over 15m. Ampadu isn’t even getting a game at Leipzig, how is that a positive?

Sure we could get a PL loan for Rashford, McTominay, Lingard and Andreas too.
Ampadu has played in the CL this season and you’d imagine that he’d have to be training to a consistently high level to be ready when called upon. It Beats sitting in the under 23s for a year and I’m sure he’d agree with that. I’m not saying the loan system is foolproof but it can definitely be used to our advantage a bit more than we have seen recently.

edit: I’m also not calling for us to start loaning out every talented 17 year old we have either. I just mean when players get to 19-21 and they haven’t really showcased what they can do anywhere except for in our youth teams it’s not really a fair assessment of how good they are. Lots of our stand out players at that level fade into obscurity without ever getting a real crack at senior football and it’s pressures and demands anywhere before they leave. I’m definitely not arguing about youth football with you. You know your stuff and I always like reading your posts. I’m just thinking out loud. The likes of Salford City could be a good spot to loan a few younger players over the next few seasons.
 
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Nick7

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Ampadu has less minutes in the CL than Chong has in the EL. I'm really really not seeing what's better about Chelsea's approach other than making money back on players they bought. Yeah, we could probably do better if we turned our academy into a money making ring like they have.

Simply look at Lucas Piazon's list of loans for how what they do goes wrong at times. I'm sure those loans have done a great job getting him ready for the first team...
 

Sid234

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We need to look at getting "feeder clubs" or maybe buying a European club if we want to be developing youngsters better. The jump from U23 to first team is huge and the loan system is not great. We need better control over the coaching and mentoring these kids get when they start playing first team football at lower levels
 

cyberman

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We need to look at getting "feeder clubs" or maybe buying a European club if we want to be developing youngsters better. The jump from U23 to first team is huge and the loan system is not great. We need better control over the coaching and mentoring these kids get when they start playing first team football at lower levels
Why? We have a lot of youth players in our squad? We arent struggling to produce them
 

jackal&hyde

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No idea what any of these young lads are like that we've seemingly signed these last few days but seems like we've been busy scouting around anyway, which is good to see
It's been happening for some time now. The U18s are full of talent.
 

limerickcitykid

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Ampadu has played in the CL this season and you’d imagine that he’d have to be training to a consistently high level to be ready when called upon. It Beats sitting in the under 23s for a year and I’m sure he’d agree with that. I’m not saying the loan system is foolproof but it can definitely be used to our advantage a bit more than we have seen recently.

edit: I’m also not calling for us to start loaning out every talented 17 year old we have either. I just mean when players get to 19-21 and they haven’t really showcased what they can do anywhere except for in our youth teams it’s not really a fair assessment of how good they are. Lots of our stand out players at that level fade into obscurity without ever getting a real crack at senior football and it’s pressures and demands anywhere before they leave. I’m definitely not arguing about youth football with you. You know your stuff and I always like reading your posts. I’m just thinking out loud. The likes of Salford City could be a good spot to loan a few players over the next few seasons.
He played 180 minutes in it. 270 minutes all season. The u23s train with the first team and that would be at his actual parent club. So no, it doesn’t beat it. His loan has been terrible, no two ways about it.

I agree we can use the loan system a bit better and one of my main gripes previously was how slow we were in pushing players through the levels but we’ve improved in that a bit recently. Salford moving up the leagues hopefully we create a partnership type deal. I just don’t agree with the idea that Chelsea and City have somehow mastered the use of loans and player development when there is little proof to actually support that.
 

LawCharltonBest

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He will go back to Barca if he is good enough
:lol:

Yeah right! As if he’ll leave Barcelona’s youth squad to join United, to then just ask to go back to Barcelona a few years later when he’s establishing himself in the United first team. How bloody unrealis...

Yeah good shout actually, izec
 

Leonetti

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I’m not sure why we should change to City or Chelsea’s model. We produce more players for the upper leagues than anyone else. That alone should lend to the thought that we are doing a better job than most if not everyone else in the Premier League. However, there are arguments that we do not get a lot for our youth players when we sell them. That is not the goal of our academy though. Our goal is to produce players for the first team, not for profit, and if they are not good enough for us, then we help them find a club that they can play for. We look after their career which helps in our recruiting process. We have always sold players for a lower amount because we would rather them have a successful career than keep them on our books and then they regress. This is a good model and I hope we continue with it.

Not long ago there were articles about how both Chelsea and City were keeping players on their books, not giving them playing time and making them wait out their contracts before moving on. If that is the case, that is not how I would want us to operate. Instead, find these players a home so that they can fulfill their career instead of ruining them.

As to Jurado, any time we can poach a Barcelona prospect is a bonus. I have heard nothing about this kid but stocking up on the next generation is never a bad thing. If he is good enough, he will play for us. Ole has shown that and if he is not in charge when Jurado comes through, I hope we have a manager that believes in giving kids a chance like Ole does.
 
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Ali Dia

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Ampadu has less minutes in the CL than Chong has in the EL. I'm really really not seeing what's better about Chelsea's approach other than making money back on players they bought. Yeah, we could probably do better if we turned our academy into a money making ring like they have.

Simply look at Lucas Piazon's list of loans for how what they do goes wrong at times. I'm sure those loans have done a great job getting him ready for the first team...
if RBL wanted Chong on loan for next season as a rotational sub or Ole wanted him just for the squad I know what I’d do if I was him. He’s not going to get enough minutes to develop in a meaningful way here next year especially if we sign another RW. As I said I don’t think it’s foolproof. Look at adnan and Piazon both extremely highly rated as youngsters and both probably wealthy men by now... but maybe it takes a bad loan or some time away from the club to show our fans that these players were never going to make it here in the long run. Senior Games will more often than not boost the players market value if we don’t need them and worst case scenario for us it helps the player get a better deal on a free if we don’t agree terms
He played 180 minutes in it. 270 minutes all season. The u23s train with the first team and that would be at his actual parent club. So no, it doesn’t beat it. His loan has been terrible, no two ways about it.

I agree we can use the loan system a bit better and one of my main gripes previously was how slow we were in pushing players through the levels but we’ve improved in that a bit recently. Salford moving up the leagues hopefully we create a partnership type deal. I just don’t agree with the idea that Chelsea and City have somehow mastered the use of loans and player development when there is little proof to actually support that.
Say for example his performances in the team were amazing or konate or dayot u got injured and he’d played a lot more then the loan would have been totally worth it. It’s very fine margins and that’s the risk you take going out. You have to back yourself. Id imagine he knew well going there he wasn’t first choice. He wasn’t going to get enough minutes at Chelsea either where he had more players in front of him or he’d have stayed on. It’ll be interesting to see how he develops but I don’t think the loan will have done him much harm. I think it’s raised his profile a bit and probably matured him a bit, even being on the bench every week wondering if you’re going to get thrown into a top team is a good learning experience.
 

izec

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:lol:

Yeah right! As if he’ll leave Barcelona’s youth squad to join United, to then just ask to go back to Barcelona a few years later when he’s establishing himself in the United first team. How bloody unrealis...

Yeah good shout actually, izec
I never said when he might go back to Barca. Also i didn't specify that he would move from United to Barca.

He may decline a contract now for money reasons or low chances of making a breakthrough, but in a couple of years or a decade, everything will be forgotten and he will go back if he is good enough to potentially start there and they are in need of a RB.

Pique, Fabregas. Heavily flirting with Bellerin for a while. You can laugh all you want, but if he turns out to be a very good player, you can bet your house on it that Barca will be chasing him if they need a RB. If he turns out to be average or barely good enough, nobody will care anyway.

Real usually loan them out or sell them with a buy back clause. And they all are eager to crawl back to them. In recent times, Odegaard, Carvajal, Hakimi.

The only risk is that he may leave sooner than you think. But if you get him for peanuts and you can sell him for a good price, at least you made some money. But you have to be aware of it, that such a scenario might turn up at some point.
 
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padzilla

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If he's any good he'll agitate to go back at the first opportunity a la Pique and Fabregas.
 

Teja

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What is going on with the Barca youth academy these days? Pep / City have been poaching lots of promising players from there as well.
 

Ali Dia

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What is going on with the Barca youth academy these days? Pep / City have been poaching lots of promising players from there as well.
we can get these foreign players before they sign binding youth contracts without paying a tribunal fee and we offer them a lot more money and promises of a path to the first team it they come to England. I’ve no idea of the kind of wages they’d be on but I would imagine they would have to be pretty set to consider leaving as it would often be easier for them to get into the first team at their original club (not barca but other clubs). Family moving country etc. I think it all comes down to money, our youth track record being very good and our facilities being world class.
 
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